Official JTR Speakers Subwoofer Thread - Page 159 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4741 of 13213 Old 07-12-2017, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Curves View Post
I got my JTR 118 on Monday. It replaces my Rel Stadium with 10" driver. It's like comparing a V8 Corvette with 500HP to a 4-Cylinder Honda Civic with 100HP. I paid $3K for that "AudioFool" Rel 10 years ago and this 118 for 1/2 the cost ten years later blows it away. This is the best improvement for the $$ I have ever experienced in Audio. I just did not know what I was missing.

My setup is currently 5.1 and recently I pulled out my speakers from the office to test 7.1. Yes 7.1 is more immersive and I like it but I am not sure if the cost of building a side wall on the open side of the living room warrants it. It also impacts resale value. We HT nuts like closed rooms but regular home buyers like open floor plan. Anyway, in addition to all the bass goodness, I cannot believe how this JTR sub also increases the immersion. The room is so much more full of acoustic energy. I wonder what adding a 2nd one at the front of the room would do

Attached are some pics. The sub is currently in the back about 4 feet from the MLP. The Rel is still right behind me and powered off and I need to move it out of the room so it is not blocking my MLP. The pic where it is in the front was just to see how it would look . I have ordered a UMIK-1 MIC and will started learning REW so I can dial it in. I guess this is the beginning
Welcome to the JTR club! Your key to the "JTR only break room" is the mail! As a fellow new member, I know exactly what you are going through! It is incredible! Enjoy!

On the 7.1 side speaker issue, have you considered speakers on stands as opposed to building a wall?
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post #4742 of 13213 Old 07-12-2017, 02:04 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Curves View Post
I got my JTR 118 on Monday. It replaces my Rel Stadium with 10" driver. It's like comparing a V8 Corvette with 500HP to a 4-Cylinder Honda Civic with 100HP. I paid $3K for that "AudioFool" Rel 10 years ago and this 118 for 1/2 the cost ten years later blows it away. This is the best improvement for the $$ I have ever experienced in Audio. I just did not know what I was missing.

My setup is currently 5.1 and recently I pulled out my speakers from the office to test 7.1. Yes 7.1 is more immersive and I like it but I am not sure if the cost of building a side wall on the open side of the living room warrants it. It also impacts resale value. We HT nuts like closed rooms but regular home buyers like open floor plan. Anyway, in addition to all the bass goodness, I cannot believe how this JTR sub also increases the immersion. The room is so much more full of acoustic energy. I wonder what adding a 2nd one at the front of the room would do

Attached are some pics. The sub is currently in the back about 4 feet from the MLP. The Rel is still right behind me and powered off and I need to move it out of the room so it is not blocking my MLP. The pic where it is in the front was just to see how it would look . I have ordered a UMIK-1 MIC and will started learning REW so I can dial it in. I guess this is the beginning
Love the sub and congrats on joining the JTR family. That 118 looks great!!!!
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post #4743 of 13213 Old 07-12-2017, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by schwaggs View Post
I was thinking the same thing, MV is relative, not absolute.

I don't even think direct comparisons or Audessey or MCAAC calibrated MV levels is 100% accurate. Especially from brand to brand, model to model and version to version.

Add to this we have no idea how linear a AVR's volume control circuit performs which is important when you consider the relatively low volume the calibrations are made.
I read here in another ID sub thread that there is definite difference in MV among Denon, Yamaha and Pioneer.

After calibration, MV=0 dB is reference level for a Denon. For Yamaha, it is set by the user so it's all over the place. On a Pioneer, it is 5 hot. This is why you will see "my MV is -12.5dB which is equivalent to -7.5dB on Denon..." in my posts.
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post #4744 of 13213 Old 07-12-2017, 02:40 PM
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Here is the box for the Cap 1400. I am all dead getting this up to the media room. I have it out of the box but not set up yet. This thing is a monster! I can't even imagine the 2400 and 4000! More pics to follow.





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Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
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post #4745 of 13213 Old 07-12-2017, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
Here is the box for the Cap 1400. I am all dead getting this up to the media room. I have it out of the box but not set up yet. This thing is a monster! I can't even imagine the 2400 and 4000!
Don't tell me you moved this monstrosity up the stairs by yourself

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

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post #4746 of 13213 Old 07-12-2017, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Don't tell me you moved this monstrosity up the stairs by yourself


Almost by myself. Probably a mistake. Feel sick now.


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Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
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post #4747 of 13213 Old 07-12-2017, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
Almost by myself. Probably a mistake. Feel sick now.

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With a hand truck right? Or you just pushed it up the stairs?

I can tell you that since JTR uses BB ply, a sub similar in size from other companies would weigh much more.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #4748 of 13213 Old 07-12-2017, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
With a hand truck right? Or you just pushed it up the stairs?

I can tell you that since JTR uses BB ply, a sub similar in size from other companies would weigh much more.


Pushed and pulled up the stairs. I thought the Submersives box was big, wrong.


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Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD
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post #4749 of 13213 Old 07-12-2017, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
Pushed and pulled up the stairs. I thought the Submersives box was big, wrong.
What are you doing replying to my posts???

You should be busy hooking the Cap 1400 up and listening!!!

Now get!!!


Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #4750 of 13213 Old 07-12-2017, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
What are you doing replying to my posts???

You should be busy hooking the Cap 1400 up and listening!!!

Now get!!!



I am dying to. Of all days I am at a doctor with my mom then have someone from out of town coming for dinner, I am determined to do something before going to bed. Early start tomorrow and weekend out of town. Bad timing


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Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
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post #4751 of 13213 Old 07-12-2017, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
While this may seem confusing, Jeff is boosting/shaping the FR via the DSP to get the sub to measure flat outside. Chucky's 2015 sub has an additional range of boost to flat outside, which is too much IMO. Jeff rectified this and reprogrammed the knob for later subs. Measuring flat outside is the maximum amount of LF boost a sub should need in the largest of rooms. I believe Jeff commented on this a while back. So boost and cut is still the proper labelling of the knob.

I do believe it is best to start with this knob at 12:00 and adjust to taste. 12:00 on the 2017 Caps likely corresponds to 9:00 on the 2015s.
That's why I was thinking I might should dial mine back some from max boost because my room is only around 2100 cu ft.
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post #4752 of 13213 Old 07-12-2017, 03:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
What are you doing replying to my posts???

...D
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post #4753 of 13213 Old 07-12-2017, 03:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
Pushed and pulled up the stairs. I thought the Submersives box was big, wrong.


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Rite of passage for JTR owners: need help moving this thing!

Can't believe you moved it up the stairs by yourself. I think that's a pure adrenaline rush. Understandable . Have fun.
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post #4754 of 13213 Old 07-12-2017, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
How do you like dual Cap 1400 so far? Where do you have your subs at now?
Subs are both about 3 feet from the wall on opposite ends of the room. Best place I could find without compromising the rest of my system and having the tv shifted way too far to the right. I like the subs, but with the gain set around 1 - 2 and the main volume around -17 on my Denon they are working pretty hard on some movies like WoW. I guess I am afraid to push them too hard even though I know Jeff said they will basically not get any louder once they reach their max. Maybe I have more headroom than I realize since I have never had 2 subs before, but from the way the woofers are moving in and out at times they are working pretty hard. There is a compromise because I have to run the subs pretty hot to get the feedback I want, but not have the main speakers be so loud that I can't stand to watch something for very long.
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post #4755 of 13213 Old 07-12-2017, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
Strange! I have the Denon and it sure lets me save the cal after the 1st mic measurement. Marantz and Denon are owned by the same company so they should be very similar.

You only have Left and Right and no surrounds?

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post #4756 of 13213 Old 07-12-2017, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by cannga View Post
Rite of passage for JTR owners: need help moving this thing!



Can't believe you moved it up the stairs by yourself. I think that's a pure adrenaline rush. Understandable . Have fun.


Think it was. I am not a big guy either.


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post #4757 of 13213 Old 07-12-2017, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by bscool View Post
You only have Left and Right and no surrounds?
No, running 7.x
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post #4758 of 13213 Old 07-12-2017, 03:53 PM
 
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
I am dying to. Of all days I am at a doctor with my mom then have someone from out of town coming for dinner, I am determined to do something before going to bed. Early start tomorrow and weekend out of town. Bad timing


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Talk about taking a cold shower for all us JTR peeps
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post #4759 of 13213 Old 07-12-2017, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by 4kicknsnd View Post
Subs are both about 3 feet from the wall on opposite ends of the room. Best place I could find without compromising the rest of my system and having the tv shifted way too far to the right. I like the subs, but with the gain set around 1 - 2 and the main volume around -17 on my Denon they are working pretty hard on some movies like WoW. I guess I am afraid to push them too hard even though I know Jeff said they will basically not get any louder once they reach their max. Maybe I have more headroom than I realize since I have never had 2 subs before, but from the way the woofers are moving in and out at times they are working pretty hard. There is a compromise because I have to run the subs pretty hot to get the feedback I want, but not have the main speakers be so loud that I can't stand to watch something for very long.
Still not doing the REW?

You know a lot of your concerns will be self-explanatory once you run the REW, right?

JTR subs are built like tanks so as long as you don't run 20 Hz sine waves at reference level you should be fine.

You definitely have a lot of headroom with 2 Cap 1400s in a 2100 cu ft area. However, if you are used to 130+dB in car audio, you probably need MOAR...

I remember that the spot behind your MLP should give you a pretty good FR. Subs on opposite sides of the room should in theory work pretty well in a sealed room. The problem is mid width on for some rooms are not great and a lot of rooms are not rectangular or sealed. In my room, 1 sub at front mid width and the other behind the MLP will produce a -50 dB dip at 40 Hz or so.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 07-12-2017 at 05:04 PM.
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post #4760 of 13213 Old 07-12-2017, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by 4kicknsnd View Post
That's why I was thinking I might should dial mine back some from max boost because my room is only around 2100 cu ft.
You can't really tell unless you run the REW...

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #4761 of 13213 Old 07-12-2017, 04:28 PM
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gotta break in the subs for a least a day or 2 before running sine waves grats on purchase

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post #4762 of 13213 Old 07-12-2017, 04:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Curves View Post
I got my JTR 118 on Monday. It replaces my Rel Stadium with 10" driver. It's like comparing a V8 Corvette with 500HP to a 4-Cylinder Honda Civic with 100HP. I paid $3K for that "AudioFool" Rel 10 years ago and this 118 for 1/2 the cost ten years later blows it away. This is the best improvement for the $$ I have ever experienced in Audio. I just did not know what I was missing.

...We HT nuts like closed rooms but regular home buyers like open floor plan. ....
LOL. Yes I too owned the Rel Stadium and yes I knew your conclusion was going to be like this. It's not even REMOTELY close unfortunately.

What was most surprising too me was that the JTR goes deeper, that is without question, yet subjectively doesn't sound any "slower" or more ponderous than the small REL.

Congrats and have fun!
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post #4763 of 13213 Old 07-12-2017, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
Here is the box for the Cap 1400. I am all dead getting this up to the media room. I have it out of the box but not set up yet. This thing is a monster! I can't even imagine the 2400 and 4000! More pics to follow.
Congrats!

It is big but what I like is the footprint of 20x22.5 because width and depth are more limiting factors than height in our rooms. I am lucky, the Fedex person was at my front door with it on a dolly and I told her to tilt it into the house. My listening room is the living room by the front door so I had to just slide and not lift it. As I was unpacking it, I thought this is no big deal, I could have gone for the bigger one LOL!
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post #4764 of 13213 Old 07-12-2017, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
I read here in another ID sub thread that there is definite difference in MV among Denon, Yamaha and Pioneer.

After calibration, MV=0 dB is reference level for a Denon. For Yamaha, it is set by the user so it's all over the place. On a Pioneer, it is 5 hot. This is why you will see "my MV is -12.5dB which is equivalent to -7.5dB on Denon..." in my posts.


That why you should make adjustments with a db meter. Then we should all be the same.


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post #4765 of 13213 Old 07-12-2017, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrazda View Post
That why you should make adjustments with a db meter. Then we should all be the same.
I found that my MV @ 0 dB does not equal to reference level by running the REW.

My Pioneer AVR does not allow me to reset the scale...

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 07-12-2017 at 07:46 PM.
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post #4766 of 13213 Old 07-12-2017, 06:06 PM
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I decided to tinker with my 1400 this week and made a couple changes that made a significant improvement in output. First I purchased a 1" slab of finished black granite cut to the footprint size of my sub. I added rubber feet to the 1400 and placed it on the granite slab. Second I added a splitter to the LFE output cable from my Onkyo TXNR-1009 where it connects to my sub. I ran Audyssey again and the difference was noticeable. From my listening position 10 ft. away I felt air from the ports for the first time. Some of this probably from raising the sub up off the floor. Curious if adding the splitter actually makes any difference or if it is just a wasted extra connection.
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post #4767 of 13213 Old 07-12-2017, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Still not doing the REW?

You know a lot of your concerns will be self-explanatory once you run the REW, right?

JTR subs are built like tanks so as long as you don't run 20 Hz sine waves at reference level you should be fine.

You definitely have a lot of headroom with 2 Cap 1400s in a 2100 cu ft area. However, if you are used to 130+dB in car audio, you probably need MOAR...

I remember that the spot behind your MLP should give you a pretty good FR. Subs on opposite sides of the room should in theory work pretty well in a sealed room. The problem is mid width on for some rooms are not great and a lot of rooms are not rectangular or sealed. In my room, 1 sub at front mid width and the other behind the MLP will produce a -50 dB dip at 40 Hz or so.
No still haven't run rew or bought a microphone. Out of all the available positions where they are had the best impact and sound quality. I tried some other positions that would have required me to remove a piece of furniture and there was hardly any impact - the sound was clean but very little impact. Frankly I was surprised at some of the positions I tried the rumble just wasn't there/floor shaking just wasn't as good. Maybe I am sitting directly on top of a floor joist now and that is why I can feel the bass so much. How much can I hope to gain by running rew over level matching and then running Audyssey?
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post #4768 of 13213 Old 07-12-2017, 07:31 PM
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Here is the box for the Cap 1400. I am all dead getting this up to the media room. I have it out of the box but not set up yet. This thing is a monster! I can't even imagine the 2400 and 4000! More pics to follow.





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Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD
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post #4769 of 13213 Old 07-12-2017, 07:38 PM
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Official JTR Speakers Subwoofer Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
What are you doing replying to my posts???

You should be busy hooking the Cap 1400 up and listening!!!

Now get!!!



Quote:
Originally Posted by cannga View Post
Rite of passage for JTR owners: need help moving this thing!



Can't believe you moved it up the stairs by yourself. I think that's a pure adrenaline rush. Understandable . Have fun.


Guys what is the off/trig option at the top in the attached pic? Also where should connect my RCA cable? Left or right?

Also I thought the Cap 1400 had speaker power amps. This one says ICE power. Is that so?

Edit: looks like the speaker power is on the 2400 and higher.







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Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD

Last edited by imureh; 07-12-2017 at 07:43 PM.
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post #4770 of 13213 Old 07-12-2017, 07:42 PM
 
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Looks like a heavyweight fighting a middleweight.
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