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post #5821 of 12711 Old 08-24-2017, 01:38 PM
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post #5822 of 12711 Old 08-24-2017, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew1204 View Post
(originally quoted some folks in the PSA thread so take that into account)

Ok so after a day of testing and tweaking and taking your guys advice here are my thoughts on the Cap 1400 vs V1801:


I took your advice and cranked them both up. Audyssey XT set the Cap 1400 to -5.5, and when I did it the first time a few weeks ago it also set my V1801 at the same level. So I was just interchanging their locations but not running through the Audyssey setup again. Since it was tuned with the 1400 this should favor the 1400 anyway. Plus I have been listening to the 1801 for 3 weeks so far and know what it sounds like.

I would say the 1400 must be playing louder down low like you say. It shakes the walls of my house more, and creates more rattles and is actually a negative aspect because I am using it in my huge living room and it is not a dedicated theatre. Also, I was able to feel the 1400 on my shirt where the 1801 did it less. You feel the 1400 more than you hear it.

At the same cranked to +8 hot on the denon receiver, the 1801 still sounds louder, without shaking and rattling my walls which in my opinion is a positive. The 1400 sounds quieter still, by quite a bit, but you can feel it on your shirt, but it doesn't chest pound me. Probably because I am about 12 feet away and my room is super huge.


1 - Yes I am playing them in the same spot. I am running the room correction for Audyssey XT.

Actually I went into the settings and started messing with Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume. Earlier in my first post I said the 1801 sounded boomier. My definition of boomier would be less clean, but louder. But what I realized was that I was listening at about -15 or -10 and had Dynamic EQ on and it was falsely boosting bass. It made the bass extremely boomy, in a bad way.

The 1801 was louder which I liked, but it was too muddy, and too much. Turning off Dynamic EQ, as well as Dynamic Volume fixed the boomy issue completely, whereas before I would borderline get a headache.

So turning off Dynamic EQ and Volume has fixed the extra boomy bass issue that I was first having and now I believe to have the best of both worlds.

The 1801 is loud, clean, punchy without being "boomy" and too much. The cap 1400 with the same settings being off is obviously louder down low, with frequencies that are not really audible. I cannot really hear the cap 1400 hitting the lower notes, but my walls will be shaking and rattling more than the 1801.

This is of course what someone in a dedicated theatre would most likely prefer because the walls wouldn't rattle, the room would pressurize since its a smaller theatre room and you would probably feel the chest slam from sitting closer. But, at the same time they may not prefer this.

But it goes both ways, if the 1801 sounds this great in my seriously huge room (over 11,000 cubic feet I believe), how great would it sound in a much smaller 10x12 or even 12x15 dedicated theatre?

I normally listen to movies around -15 to -10 on my receiver. I have Klipsch towers, and center and when they are played near reference they are extremely loud. I know the receiver accounts for this in the setup, but Klipsch being so bright and loud it is hard to listen to movies much louder than -10 as it is LOUD.

I am pushing the 1801 at +8 hot on the receiver after the denon tuned it to -5.5.

Is this +8 hot overall? Or is it more like 13.5 hot?

I really like the sound of the 1801. The 1801 is louder. It also doesn't shake the hell out of my windows and walls causing distracting rattles. This is why I like the 1801 better.

It is louder and fills the room better, and doesn't cause distracting rattles. I also have those inexpensive bass shakers Aura Pros that are like $40 each and they give more vibration and feeling than either subs could. I had the shakers off during testing so I could "hear" and feel the differences between the cap and 1801.

I think the 1801, with the shakers on (with the gain turned fairly low actually for the shakers) will give an amazing experience as I can feel the shakers more than the cap 1400, and the 1801 is still playing "louder."

My question is if the 3601 would be even louder with the frequencies that I enjoy on the 1801 vs the cap 1400.

If I wanted to upgrade to a 3601 vs a 1801, what would the difference be? Would the 3601 add the caps low end and then the 3601 would vibrate and rattle my walls? Or would it add more volume and be louder up top which is what I enjoy, without shaking my walls and creating rattles?

I think for now I will add a second 1801 in the near future and that should be pretty killer.

Whew! Thanks for reading, and thanks for everyones, input, advice and help!
Obviously the most important aspect is the performance delivered in your room.

It does sound like the V1801 fits your preferences an no question it is a very strong performer. More for amusement and understanding for yourself and others just how important frequency response and other details are, if you still have the 1400 in the system, I would suggest these last 2 points of comparison.

1. Turn the LF Adjust to minimum, and then experiment with turning up the level. This will likely make a significant difference in the shaking vs. punch. If this makes a noticeable difference you can continue experimenting with bumping the LF adjust back up to see at what point it's more deep bass energy than you prefer. Then move on to #2.

2. Did you experiment with the subwoofer distance adjustment I mentioned? Even if Audyssey is run for the sub, it's somewhat luck of the draw with the combination you will get with the main speakers. Increasing the distance of the sub while listening to a soundtrack with strong punch or percussive bass will let you hear what happens as you increase the entered distance for the subwoofer in ~2' increments up to ~8'. Please note most receivers require you to enter the distance change and get out of the speaker distance screen before the change is entered. In other words, changing the distance in the menu will make no change until you exit that menu and you will hear the sound drop out and kick back in.

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post #5823 of 12711 Old 08-24-2017, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew1204 View Post
(originally quoted some folks in the PSA thread so take that into account)

Ok so after a day of testing and tweaking and taking your guys advice here are my thoughts on the Cap 1400 vs V1801:




I am pushing the 1801 at +8 hot on the receiver after the denon tuned it to -5.5.

Is this +8 hot overall? Or is it more like 13.5 hot?

I really like the sound of the 1801. The 1801 is louder. It also doesn't shake the hell out of my windows and walls causing distracting rattles. This is why I like the 1801 better.

It is louder and fills the room better, and doesn't cause distracting rattles. I also have those inexpensive bass shakers Aura Pros that are like $40 each and they give more vibration and feeling than either subs could. I had the shakers off during testing so I could "hear" and feel the differences between the cap and 1801.

I think the 1801, with the shakers on (with the gain turned fairly low actually for the shakers) will give an amazing experience as I can feel the shakers more than the cap 1400, and the 1801 is still playing "louder."

My question is if the 3601 would be even louder with the frequencies that I enjoy on the 1801 vs the cap 1400.

If I wanted to upgrade to a 3601 vs a 1801, what would the difference be? Would the 3601 add the caps low end and then the 3601 would vibrate and rattle my walls? Or would it add more volume and be louder up top which is what I enjoy, without shaking my walls and creating rattles?

I think for now I will add a second 1801 in the near future and that should be pretty killer.

Whew! Thanks for reading, and thanks for everyones, input, advice and help!
Hi,

Mark's suggestions may make a difference and I would definitely try them. I have two additional thoughts. First, yes you are boosting the sub by 13.5db. There is nothing inherently wrong in adding that much boost, but as I noted in an earlier post, you would really prefer to add that boost using the V1801 sub gain, rather than the AVR trim. Going into positive numbers with the AVR sub trim, at fairly high listening levels, can cause the sub to clip. That may or may not be distinctly audible to you, but it is an unwanted form of distortion. Keeping the trim level well in the negative range, and using the sub gain control instead, will give you the same volume increases you are after. But, it will utilize the subwoofer amp to do it, and that will reduce the possibility of clipping. There is a detailed explanation of this in the subwoofer guide, linked below.

My second observation is that a V3601 will give you more of what you like in the V1801, but it will also give you a little more of what you didn't seem to like about the Cap 1400. I think that your plan to add a second V1801 will be much better. Together the two V1801's will equal a single V3601 anyway, and you will derive additional benefits from having duals. And, you would always be able to upgrade to dual V3601's in the future, if you ever wanted to.

I didn't know how your preference would turn out, and perhaps Mark's suggestions will affect your decision, but there isn't anything at all shabby about dual V1801's, even in a large room. One of the things that we sometimes forget when we talk about large room volumes is our relative proximity to the sub(s). I believe that can be an even more important factor than overall room volume. And, if you are on a suspended wood floor (which is what your description seemed to suggest) the additional tactile energy available with a Cap 1400 really may not be necessary, in your case.

Regards,
Mike

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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post #5824 of 12711 Old 08-24-2017, 05:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew1204 View Post
....
The 1801 is loud, clean, punchy without being "boomy" and too much. The cap 1400 with the same settings being off is obviously louder down low, with frequencies that are not really audible. I cannot really hear the cap 1400 hitting the lower notes, but my walls will be shaking and rattling more than the 1801.

This is of course what someone in a dedicated theatre would most likely prefer because the walls wouldn't rattle, the room would pressurize since its a smaller theatre room and you would probably feel the chest slam from sitting closer. But, at the same time they may not prefer this....
Nice test and good observation. IMHO, what you are hearing is full range bass (JTR 1400) vs upper bass dominance (PSA 1801).

What sounds "nice" versus what is accurate is a conundrum that every audiophile has to face since time immemorial. Do you want to hear the nice punchy upper-bass dominated presentation of War of the Worlds, or do you want to hear the full range of bass that that the content creator intends? IOW, IMHO the nice punchy sound is missing deep bass content that others of us are chasing at great cost.

The 1801 seems to be the choice for you, but please allow me to add some caution about these short term rushed subjective tests. (Did someone recently moved from JTR to Seaton and then to something else within a few weeks? ) You are bound to make a mistake since there is no way one could fully appreciate a subwoofer this way. IMHO, it is most assuredly a guarantee that, for everyone of us here, some materials would sound better on JTR, and some on PSA, long term. Software dependence. That's the problem and the reason why, done inadequately subjective test is "dangerous" at the same time that it's necessary.

Last edited by cannga; 08-24-2017 at 05:29 PM.
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post #5825 of 12711 Old 08-24-2017, 05:23 PM - Thread Starter
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BTW, I just want to put it out there that observing these discussions I've become just a touch suspicious (NO real criticism, just a touch, so no flame please ) about Audyssey and what it does to the sound of these subwoofers.

YMMV, but I continue to advocate a very important part of auditioning subwoofer, or shoot-out, is without equalizer.
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post #5826 of 12711 Old 08-24-2017, 05:29 PM
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Nice test and good observation. IMHO, what you are hearing is full range bass (JTR 1400) vs upper bass dominance (PSA 1801).

What sounds "nice" versus what is accurate is a conundrum that every audiophile has to face since time immemorial. Do you want to hear the nice punchy, upper bass, presentation of War of the Worlds, or do you want to hear the full range of bass that that the content creator intends? IOW, IMHO the nice punchy sound is missing deep bass content that others of us are chasing at great cost.

The 1801 seems to be the choice for you, but allow me to add some caution about these short term rushed subjective tests. (Did someone recently moved from JTR to Seaton and then to something else within a few weeks? ) You are bound to make a mistake since there is no way one could fully appreciate a subwoofer this way. IMHO, it is most assuredly a guarantee that, even for you, some materials would sound better on JTR, and some on PSA, long term. That's the problem and the reason why, done inadequately subjective test is "dangerous" at the same time that it's necessary.
I don't think you have the facts straight of that "someone" moving from JTR to Seatons to V1801. I went with the Seatons and JTR at the same time as I wanted to compare sealed to ported in my room. I went with JTR based on all the hype I had heard about it. I preferred Seatons as they sounded better and offered more TR than the JTR. The Cap sounded boomy, with little TR and I just did not like the sound signature. It also confirmed for me that I did not like that big of a sub in my room. Now the move from Seaton to 1801 was not driven by the fact that I did not like the Seatons, it was due to the fact the Seatons would trip my breaker when cranked up on bass heavy scenes and I did not want to spend money on getting a new dedicated circuit run to keep the Seatons and hence they went back. Now I did not expect the V1801 to sound good in my room as I thought that ported probably would not work for me based on the experience with the JTR. However it was complete opposite. The V1801 sounded, clean, punchy and with plenty of TR. They had more TR than the Seatons and JTR and gave the impact and the grunt of the ported and hence I stumbled into this finding due to the electrical issue.

Also, to be clear, I listened to the Cap for a month and Seatons for 45 days, so please do not make a statement that is not true. I did not jump from one sub to the other. I really liked the Seatons and would not have returned them if I did not have the electrical issue, I would not have even been looking. However it seems my findings between the V1801 and JTR is not limited to just myself. Others are finding it too. All three of these subs are great, it one prefers one over the other we should just be happy for that person and move on. The JTR does not have to be everybody's preference. It does not make it a less of a sub if some one prefers a PSA over it and no need to state that the person does not have a taste of enjoying bass as the coder intended. Different people prefer different things, but to insinuate that me or the this other guy are making a mistake is absolutely unbiased as there is no way for anyone to make that determination.
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post #5827 of 12711 Old 08-24-2017, 05:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Seatons, it was due to the fact the Seatons would trip my breaker when cranked up on bass heavy scenes and I did not want to spend money on getting a new dedicated circuit run to keep the Seatons and hence they went back.
Was there an explanation for this? Why did the Seatons trip the circuit but not JTR and PSA?
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post #5828 of 12711 Old 08-24-2017, 05:43 PM
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Was there an explanation for this? Why did the Seatons trip the circuit but not JTR and PSA?
Talked to Mark in detail. It had something to with the amps, they were the older style. Not effective to switch out and upgrade.
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post #5829 of 12711 Old 08-24-2017, 05:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Talked to Mark in detail. It had something to with the amps, they were the older style. Not effective to switch out and upgrade.
Interesting. I don't seem to read about this in older Seaton Submersives; could it be a result of heavy electronic boost in equalizer? Did it trip breaker without equalizer manipulation?
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post #5830 of 12711 Old 08-24-2017, 05:58 PM
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Interesting. I don't seem to read about this in older Seaton Submersives; could it be a result of heavy electronic boost in equalizer? Did it trip breaker without equalizer manipulation?
My house is a newer home and the breakers are very sensitive. The wiring was for a 15amp breaker so just upgrading the breaker to 20 did not work. The alternative was expensive.
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post #5831 of 12711 Old 08-24-2017, 06:40 PM
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My house is a newer home and the breakers are very sensitive. The wiring was for a 15amp breaker so just upgrading the breaker to 20 did not work. The alternative was expensive.
I am just curious how much you were quoted for upgrading the breaker to whatever that won't trip.

After all, you are out what... $400 (shipping both ways ) because you had to ship dual Submersives back.

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post #5832 of 12711 Old 08-24-2017, 06:48 PM
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I am just curious how much you were quoted for upgrading the breaker to whatever that won't trip.

After all, you are out what... $400 (shipping both ways ) because you had to ship dual Submersives back.
The shipping costs for incoming and return were $330. The cost to run another circuit and wiring and new breaker box, about $1200. What is the real kicker for me, is that all along I thought the ported did not sound good in my room due to the wall to wall shelf I have in front of the room causing the JTR to sound the way it did, and that the dual opposed design was benefiting in that scenario as it was firing one driver to the front wall. However with the 1801, I was able to rule that out. You may recall, on my list I had all ported subs when I started, then went to sealed based on Marc's recommendation and after talking to Mark, now that a ported is working in my room, I am getting the TR and the grunt of a ported that I had always liked. Yes, the seatons were a bit cleaner but the TR was less than the 1801 as well as the impact
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post #5833 of 12711 Old 08-24-2017, 06:52 PM
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well not all amps are the same,,,and not everyone drives their gear the same...wish all gear came with a kill-o-watt meter so we all could state what kind of amps we pulling from the wall for said effect....but dont think most really care that much once they plop down the money. I bet lot of these super uber amps arent set to run thousands of watts rms cause most of the voice coils probably would melt...not saying they cant....

my rythmik 2k amp I need to turn the gain up alot and mv on avr up alot to get my killowatt reading over 1 amp...lol...but thats continuos avg draw so maybe thats alot....with music...idk...


anyone have thoughts on the matter? i knew a strong car stereo amp back in the day when my headlights would blink with the bass or my electrical system was sheet

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post #5834 of 12711 Old 08-24-2017, 07:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Also, to be clear, I listened to the Cap for a month and Seatons for 45 days, so please do not make a statement that is not true. I did not jump from one sub to the other.
Ah I remember cringing when a week after asking whether to plug the RCA input in the left or the right :-), you declare the comparison over. I hardly think it was an adequate test but if you think so, then my bad. One thing for sure, no criticism whatsoever of your choice.

But the main point remains the same, preference vs accuracy, the punchy bass you hear, is not necessarily the same as hearing the full frequency range of the content, nor the ultra deep bass that others are chasing. No criticism of you, nor of your preference, just your room .

Besides the room (not typical room I recall?), the fact that the Seatons would trip, but not PSA and JTR, brings even more questions about your short term test, the settings of equalizer, possible excessive boost that results in that sound and causes the tripping. Beyond topic of this thread, just a reminder that subjective test must be approached with care, and time. And part should be without equalizer.

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post #5835 of 12711 Old 08-24-2017, 07:08 PM
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I mean how many amps does math say it takes to make 2000 watts?

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post #5836 of 12711 Old 08-24-2017, 07:13 PM
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Ah I remember cringing when a week after asking whether to plug the RCA input in the left or the right :-), you declare the comparison over. I hardly think it was an adequate test but if you think so, then my bad. One thing for sure, no criticism whatsoever of your choice.

But the main point remains the same, preference vs accuracy, the punchy bass you hear, is not necessarily the same as hearing the full frequency range of the content, nor the ultra deep bass that others are chasing. No criticism of you, nor of your preference, just your room .

Besides the room (not typical room I recall?), the fact that the Seatons would trip, but not PSA and JTR, brings even more questions about your short term test, the settings of equalizer, possible excessive boost that results in that sound and causes the tripping. Beyond topic of this thread, just a reminder that subjective test must be approached with care, and time. And part should be without equalizer.
Think of it as you may my friend. End goal for all us is to be happy with whatever you end up with. I just have an issue when its portrayed that every one else has to be wrong or not chose correctly if not for a JTR sub....that is all. Let us all enjoy our subs, each to its own
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post #5837 of 12711 Old 08-24-2017, 07:20 PM - Thread Starter
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I mean how many amps does math say it takes to make 2000 watts?
Also, there is a latency to circuit breaker such that current demand has to be excessive and lasting several seconds for a circuit breaker to trip.

I believe manufacturers have discussed frequently that a 20 amp breaker is not needed, for any of these well known ID subwoofers.
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post #5838 of 12711 Old 08-24-2017, 07:59 PM
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The shipping costs for incoming and return were $330. The cost to run another circuit and wiring and new breaker box, about $1200. What is the real kicker for me, is that all along I thought the ported did not sound good in my room due to the wall to wall shelf I have in front of the room causing the JTR to sound the way it did, and that the dual opposed design was benefiting in that scenario as it was firing one driver to the front wall. However with the 1801, I was able to rule that out. You may recall, on my list I had all ported subs when I started, then went to sealed based on Marc's recommendation and after talking to Mark, now that a ported is working in my room, I am getting the TR and the grunt of a ported that I had always liked. Yes, the seatons were a bit cleaner but the TR was less than the 1801 as well as the impact
Ah... No wonder you chose not to upgrade your breaker box.

Correct me if I am wrong, is there no empty slots on the breaker box that you have to replace the whole thing? I thought your house being a newer construction and all, there should be some spots left.

Here is the thing. Since JTR Cap 1400 and PSA V1801 have pretty much the same footprint, the Cap 1400's driver is closer to the port than the center of the cabinet, the acoustic center for the two are very similar. However, since the Cap 1400 is more extended, it is possible that its location was causing something in your room while PSA V1801 is not.

Do you have a FR for the V1801?

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 08-25-2017 at 08:47 AM.
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post #5839 of 12711 Old 08-24-2017, 08:01 PM
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Ah... No wonder you chose not to upgrade your breaker box.

Correct me if I am wrong, is there is no empty slots on the breaker box that you have to replace the whole thing? I thought your house being a newer construction and all, there should be some spots left.

Here is the thing. Since JTR Cap 1400 and PSA V1801 have pretty much the same footprint, the Cap 1400's driver is closer to the port than the center of the cabinet, the acoustic center for the two are very similar. However, since the Cap 1400 is more extended, it is possible that its location was causing something in your room while PSA V1801 is not.

Do you have a FR for the V1801?


Yeah no more slots. All occupied. I did run one when I got them in. But then stopped tinkering when they sounded so good. I have been measuring for months non stop and hardly listened to content. So now packed all of that stuff up.


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Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser
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post #5840 of 12711 Old 08-24-2017, 08:09 PM
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my home is less than 10yrs old and no empty spaces on box...well i have spot for gas and electric dryer so I guess 1 spot depending on what type of dryer I use

I dont understand the TR argument... usually that can be fixed by tweaking gains/trims/peq/eq settings available...but I also get bass can be room dependent...my room sucks for overwhelming asskicking bass. some days I kinda want to move all my subs into basement or a bedroom or something lol.

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post #5841 of 12711 Old 08-24-2017, 08:29 PM
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So I am feeling a lot better about the $800 I spent on running a new 100 amp sub-panel for my basement theater.
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post #5842 of 12711 Old 08-24-2017, 08:57 PM
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I mean how many amps does math say it takes to make 2000 watts?
W = I * V

2000W = I * 120V.

I = 2000/120 = 16.7 Amp.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #5843 of 12711 Old 08-24-2017, 09:17 PM
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Hello everyone, quick question for anyone that has some feedback. My Cap 118HT doesn't seem to be turned all the way on tonight. When I go to my Manual channel level setting in my receivers setting I can hear that it's on if I go to +5 to +10 but very faint. It's happened before but usually powers all they way on after my 2nd attempt turning off and on.

Also when I plug it in I usually hear the amp make 3 clicks and then again when I switch it on from the back of the speaker. I only hear 2 clicks now and wondering if the amp is not fully engaging for some reason. Anyone else have this issue? I am running at least a 20 foot sub cable and have a spare that maybe I can swap out to see if that works. I have also tried different A.C. adapters and still no major bass...used to have a similar issue with my super cube 2 not turning on right away.

Hopefully I can get the problem corrected and find a way to get it going when I need it to. The last thing I want is to trouble shoot when have friends or family over.

[I]Video: Sony XBR-75X850C 75 inch 4k - Samsung 55inch 4k -58 PANASONIC PZ850u plasma
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Speakers and Sub : Kef Model reference 1 - DT CLR 2000 - DT UIW BP/A in ceiling rears - DT BPX Rears - JTR Captivator 118HT
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post #5844 of 12711 Old 08-24-2017, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by s2000 View Post
Hello everyone, quick question for anyone that has some feedback. My Cap 118HT doesn't seem to be turned all the way on tonight. When I go to my Manual channel level setting in my receivers setting I can hear that it's on if I go to +5 to +10 but very faint. It's happened before but usually powers all they way on after my 2nd attempt turning off and on.

Also when I plug it in I usually hear the amp make 3 clicks and then again when I switch it on from the back of the speaker. I only hear 2 clicks now and wondering if the amp is not fully engaging for some reason. Anyone else have this issue? I am running at least a 20 foot sub cable and have a spare that maybe I can swap out to see if that works. I have also tried different A.C. adapters and still no major bass...used to have a similar issue with my super cube 2 not turning on right away.

Hopefully I can get the problem corrected and find a way to get it going when I need it to. The last thing I want is to trouble shoot when have friends or family over.
I have never had this problem. However, can you try unplugging it for 5 to 10 minutes then see if it helps? Also, when you plug it in again to switch it on, turn the switch to on, rather than to auto.

Try different sub cables.

Also, try resetting your AVR. This also looks like that the AVR is not sending enough signal to the sub.

Definitely give Jeff a call tomorrow.
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Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 08-24-2017 at 10:03 PM.
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post #5845 of 12711 Old 08-24-2017, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s2000 View Post
Hello everyone, quick question for anyone that has some feedback. My Cap 118HT doesn't seem to be turned all the way on tonight. When I go to my Manual channel level setting in my receivers setting I can hear that it's on if I go to +5 to +10 but very faint. It's happened before but usually powers all they way on after my 2nd attempt turning off and on.

Also when I plug it in I usually hear the amp make 3 clicks and then again when I switch it on from the back of the speaker. I only hear 2 clicks now and wondering if the amp is not fully engaging for some reason. Anyone else have this issue? I am running at least a 20 foot sub cable and have a spare that maybe I can swap out to see if that works. I have also tried different A.C. adapters and still no major bass...used to have a similar issue with my super cube 2 not turning on right away.

Hopefully I can get the problem corrected and find a way to get it going when I need it to. The last thing I want is to trouble shoot when have friends or family over.
Check the knobs and switches on the amp. Sometimes our kids can get curious (I like to blame kids even though it is probably me who bumped something).
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post #5846 of 12711 Old 08-24-2017, 10:35 PM
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I will provide some more detailed impressions later, but due to the electrical issue I had with my Submersives I had to return them. I ordered the V1801s. All I will say for now is that they sound fantastic. It is true that many factors count towards what might appeal to an individual, but unfortunately in most threads the only things talked about is sheer output. That is only one element to consider but does not tell you anywhere close whether you would like the sub. I did not like the sound signature of the JTR Cap 1400 and prefer the PSA V1801 much more. Again based on output I should have preferred the Cap but that is not what I found.

Details to follow later.


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Take a look at what I posted one year ago in regards to the V3600 and Cap 1400:
Quote:
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Looking at the JTR data-bass measurements it is clear that a lot of DSP massaging was done to produce the ±1dB 16-200Hz flat response. Being this flat I am not sure is a good thing in a room smaller than 3000 ft³. HSU seems to do something similar on their subs. PSA and Seaton seem to take a different approach with the DSP programming accounting in-room gains. Looking at the long term output compression measurements (in the review and on PSA's site), the JTR and PSA response curves look more similar than different. Too bad we don't have distortion numbers to accompany the PSA curve. I'm surprised this is even a close call with two 18" drivers vs one. It really seems to be a toss up based on the available info.

Based on Google images I prefer the look of the PSA. Much more imposing and looks good placed vertically or horizontally. PSA also gives an extra two years of warranty on the amp and they are reachable close to 366 days of the year.

The JTR has the more fully featured Speakerpower amp. XLR in/out, 12V trigger in/out for examples.
When someone doesn't choose JTR the owner's here seem to have great difficulty wrapping their minds around it (I even predicted it). Often there are perfectly good explanations other than user error.

Mark's post regarding LF Adjust echoes what I posted in the PSA thread.
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post #5847 of 12711 Old 08-24-2017, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Take a look at what I posted one year ago in regards to the V3600 and Cap 1400:
When someone doesn't choose JTR the owner's here seem to have great difficulty wrapping their minds around it (I even predicted it). Often there are perfectly good explanations other than user error.

Mark's post regarding LF Adjust echoes what I posted in the PSA thread.
Oh Marc... Do you have to rub it in???

Actually, it doesn't matter. I don't argue with my co-workers just because they drive a different brand of car from I do. So why should I care if someone I have never met chooses Carl's Jr. over Wendy's?

We are just trying to help here.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 08-25-2017 at 08:49 AM.
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post #5848 of 12711 Old 08-24-2017, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
I have never had this problem. However, can you try unplugging it for 5 to 10 minutes then see if it helps? Also, when you plug it in again to switch it on, turn the switch to on, rather than to auto.

Try different sub cables.

Also, try resetting your AVR. This also looks like that the AVR is not sending enough signal to the sub.

Definitely give Jeff a call tomorrow.
Ok so preliminary thoughts is a faulty Sub woofer cable that I have had for at least 8 plus years...I tried a new media bridge ultra series and it fired right up...bought that just a month ago from Amazon with a splitter for potential dual subs..the old cable is a Standard Monster sub cable..thx certified apparently but not as thick as the media bridge..i may need to order a longer run as the one I have is only 15 ft. The working one.

Any how possibly a false alarm with the sub. Thanks again Doctor Chucky and the psychiatrist Marc! 😁 but seriously thank you for the quick response..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Check the knobs and switches on the amp. Sometimes our kids can get curious (I like to blame kids even though it is probably me who bumped something).
Marc , hope all is well man. I tried calling you to chat about some KEFS I came across...im going to be in California this weekend for birthday parties. Always find nice audio equipment when I am out there...lol...im now in the market for a dedicated multi channel amp..maybe 3 to 5 channel...been reading a lot about Rotel, Adcom and Parasound...the oldie but goodie versions. I may check some out while there...

I will need to do some further tests on the sub cables tomorrow as my wife and kids are asleep...yikes...have a good night all!
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[I]Video: Sony XBR-75X850C 75 inch 4k - Samsung 55inch 4k -58 PANASONIC PZ850u plasma
4k-Blu Ray: Sony UBP x800 - PS3 - oppo 103 Amp and power : Pioneer elite SC - 27 - Monster Power AVS 2000 Reference - DT BP 30s- 10s - citation 5.1
Speakers and Sub : Kef Model reference 1 - DT CLR 2000 - DT UIW BP/A in ceiling rears - DT BPX Rears - JTR Captivator 118HT
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post #5849 of 12711 Old 08-25-2017, 12:18 AM
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Ok so preliminary thoughts is a faulty Sub woofer cable that I have had for at least 8 plus years...I tried a new media bridge ultra series and it fired right up...bought that just a month ago from Amazon with a splitter for potential dual subs..the old cable is a Standard Monster sub cable..thx certified apparently but not as thick as the media bridge..i may need to order a longer run as the one I have is only 15 ft. The working one.

Any how possibly a false alarm with the sub. Thanks again Doctor Chucky and the psychiatrist Marc! 😁 but seriously thank you for the quick response..

I will need to do some further tests on the sub cables tomorrow as my wife and kids are asleep...yikes...have a good night all!
You're quite welcome!

That is good to know! Hopefully it's just the cable. Please try to get a subwoofer cable that has a oxygen-free copper center conductor.

A lot of times figuring out what is wrong is the hardest part.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #5850 of 12711 Old 08-25-2017, 12:51 AM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
W = I * V

2000W = I * 120V.

I = 2000/120 = 16.7 Amp.

I believe that formula is for DC. AC has a constant in there somewhere. Some amps are more efficient than others. Perhaps larger capacitors kick in and relieve peak loads. Were the Seatons sealed? Wouldn't sealed subs draw more because the drivers would encounter more resistance due to the lack of free air flow?? Just a guess.

HT: PSA MTM-210T front, MTM-210C center, PSA MTM-210T surrounds, PSA MT-110 rears, Atmos / Canton, Ascend CBM-170SE, PSA V1800 , PSA V1801, Marantz SR7009 AVR & Emotiva A-100 stereo amp, Panasonic 65ST60 Plasma, Oppo BDP 93, Sony S1700, Music video: JBL L890, L880, LC2, SVS pc13-Ultra, Yamaha RX-V385, ASUS 31.5" IPS monitor, Sony S1700, Multichannel stereo: PSA MT-110, Bose 901, PSA S1510DF, Denon X1400H, Marantz SR6005
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