Official JTR Speakers Subwoofer Thread - Page 231 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6901 of 12693 Old 12-08-2017, 05:08 PM
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Man, I wish I could attend JTR Speakers' Anniversary Party, Open House tomorrow...

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #6902 of 12693 Old 12-08-2017, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Man, I wish I could attend JTR Speakers' Anniversary Party, Open House tomorrow...

I was thinking the same thing... No way I can go... but it didn't stop me from daydreaming. It is less of a drive than I thought it would be actually.

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post #6903 of 12693 Old 12-08-2017, 08:09 PM
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Already to go .
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post #6904 of 12693 Old 12-09-2017, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
I was thinking the same thing... No way I can go... but it didn't stop me from daydreaming. It is less of a drive than I thought it would be actually.

Best part of that drive is that you could stop by and see me!

Welcome to spend the night as well....
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post #6905 of 12693 Old 12-09-2017, 08:21 AM
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Best part of that drive is that you could stop by and see me!

Welcome to spend the night as well....
I was thinking that too!
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post #6906 of 12693 Old 12-09-2017, 05:21 PM
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212 RT s sound amazing!
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post #6907 of 12693 Old 12-09-2017, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J View Post
212 RT s sound amazing!
Nice!!! Please post more pics if you can .

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post #6908 of 12693 Old 12-10-2017, 03:48 AM
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Originally Posted by kyzer soze View Post
Nice!!! Please post more pics if you can .
I had planned on taking a few pictures but when I got home , I only managed to have two on my phone I know that others took bunch of pictures , hopefully they will post them .

Great group of people and a great time !
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post #6909 of 12693 Old 12-10-2017, 06:52 AM
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I rented Olympus has Fallen off of Netflix, for the bass and sound effects, and watched it yesterday... WOW!

Even a single Cap 1400 was moving the house so much that my wife could feel the floor shaking in our upstairs bathroom on the opposite side of our house.

It may help that we have a full basement and it's being played on a suspended wooden floor in the LR. Is it suggested to leave movers under the sub long term or remove them? Any effect?
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post #6910 of 12693 Old 12-10-2017, 08:42 AM
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Watched a couple movies last night and my 2400 made me grin the whole time. Couple observations:

If anyone thinks a ported sub can't be musical, you need to hear my system. The 2400 blends so perfectly with my other speakers, you wouldn't even know I had a separate sub. It isn't at all "out in front" of the other speakers and doesn't call attention to itself, it just blends.

Hitman's Bodyguard - fun movie if you like Ryan Reynolds. Not much in the bass department but entertaining and has a decent soundtrack. ATMOS on the 4K disk.

Spiderman - Several sweet ULF moments in this one when the Vulture flies in the scene. My room groaned during the last one (I need add some vibration-proofing to one of my doors). Great demonstration of ULF as these moments were not particularly loud in the bass department but everything was shaking in my room. A new dimension to movie watching for me. Loved the bass in the party scene. Overall great soundtrack and mix (good ULF sprinkled throughout). ATMOS on the 4K disk.

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post #6911 of 12693 Old 12-10-2017, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishluck73 View Post
I rented Olympus has Fallen off of Netflix, for the bass and sound effects, and watched it yesterday... WOW!

Even a single Cap 1400 was moving the house so much that my wife could feel the floor shaking in our upstairs bathroom on the opposite side of our house.

It may help that we have a full basement and it's being played on a suspended wooden floor in the LR. Is it suggested to leave movers under the sub long term or remove them? Any effect?
That sounds like fun! And you may not ever want to lose that sensation. The furniture sliders under the sub shouldn't have any effect at all, as you noticed.

If you ever decide that you do want to decouple the sub from the floor, in order to reduce the vibrations from the wood floor from traveling so much, you could use several different methods to accomplish that. There are several types of isolation feet on the market, and also the Auralex SubDude. You could also DIY something using almost any semi-flexible pieces of rubber of about a 1" thickness. That would probably work just as well as any of the commercial isolation systems.

Regards,
Mike

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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post #6912 of 12693 Old 12-10-2017, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwaggs View Post
Watched a couple movies last night and my 2400 made me grin the whole time. Couple observations:

If anyone thinks a ported sub can't be musical, you need to hear my system. The 2400 blends so perfectly with my other speakers, you wouldn't even know I had a separate sub. It isn't at all "out in front" of the other speakers and doesn't call attention to itself, it just blends.
Hi schwaggs,

I noticed the exact same thing. When I upgraded my front 3 to ML's Electrostatics , I was a little worried about how the 2400ULF's would couple and integrate. The end result was so far beyond my hopes, words fail to describe! One thing in particular stood out to me. That is the 2400ULF has a very large adjustment range that permits the User to adjust to perfection. On my previous Subs, they were pretty difficult, in that the robustness of their adjustment settings would either be too much bass. As I tried to trim this down a touch, I would lose the bass. Another words, it was full on or almost absent.

Not so with the 2400. Perhaps this is due to the amount of head room the subs have in my room ? But the ability to dial in the sub in very minute increments facilitated a perfect meshing of my Mains and the Subs. Like you said, you almost forget the subs are there they blend so well.

I agree with you on how tight and clean these Subs are with Music. About the ported part. These 2400ULF are really the best of both worlds in regard to "Sealed" or "Ported" decisions. They play as low if not lower than most Sealed Subs, but they do it with the power and tactile impact that Ported Subs are renowned for. Ported Killers they are. Paradigm Destroyers.
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post #6913 of 12693 Old 12-10-2017, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishluck73 View Post
I rented Olympus has Fallen off of Netflix, for the bass and sound effects, and watched it yesterday... WOW!

Even a single Cap 1400 was moving the house so much that my wife could feel the floor shaking in our upstairs bathroom on the opposite side of our house.

It may help that we have a full basement and it's being played on a suspended wooden floor in the LR. Is it suggested to leave movers under the sub long term or remove them? Any effect?
Olympus Has Fallen is my go to movie for subwoofer demos. This is how Die Hard movies (other than Live Free or Die Dard) should be mixed. It has great dynamics as well. The movie itself is decent.

Olympus Has Fallen PvA:



I play the Washington Monument Scene just about every time before I start watching a movie. It is a sub wrecker. What makes the scene great? The scene itself is only 1:08 long. The ULF part is one of the longest ever. Notice the red, pink, white area below? It is insane! It also won't cause chuffing.



I see no problem leaving the movers under the sub. I also have movers for carpet under my Cap 1400. The Cap 1400 on a suspended wooden floor is obscene!
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Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 12-10-2017 at 12:56 PM.
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post #6914 of 12693 Old 12-10-2017, 06:47 PM
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post #6915 of 12693 Old 12-10-2017, 07:27 PM
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Just finished the movie Mother!...

Holy Mother! of Gawd!!!

It's a very windy movie!!! I think the room temp in my HT must have dropped 10 degrees due to all the wind chill.

My wife even said, 'Turn the sub down... I am so cold!'

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGrey View Post
Mother! (2017) Bass Graph

What a damn good mix!!

Dynamic
✔️
Deep
✔️
Clean✔️
Nice use of surrounds✔️
ATMOS
✔️




Official Trailer
https://youtu.be/XpICoc65uh0


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AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 12-10-2017 at 07:38 PM.
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post #6916 of 12693 Old 12-11-2017, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
That sounds like fun! And you may not ever want to lose that sensation. The furniture sliders under the sub shouldn't have any effect at all, as you noticed.

If you ever decide that you do want to decouple the sub from the floor, in order to reduce the vibrations from the wood floor from traveling so much, you could use several different methods to accomplish that. There are several types of isolation feet on the market, and also the Auralex SubDude. You could also DIY something using almost any semi-flexible pieces of rubber of about a 1" thickness. That would probably work just as well as any of the commercial isolation systems.

Regards,
Mike
Thanks for your input Mike, I appreciate it.
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post #6917 of 12693 Old 12-11-2017, 09:09 AM
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For those wanting to try isolating the sub from the floor, I would try cheaper alternatives such as EVA foam tiles or anti-fatigue kitchen mat first.
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post #6918 of 12693 Old 12-11-2017, 12:45 PM
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I have ordered one of these. I will report on it once it is delivered.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Techtongd...0418/739529366
It works!

I started a new thread and posted a video.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=55300034
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post #6919 of 12693 Old 12-11-2017, 05:36 PM
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For those wanting to try isolating the sub from the floor, I would try cheaper alternatives such as EVA foam tiles or anti-fatigue kitchen mat first.
I just put some hockey pucks underneath the four corners... Seems legit?

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post #6920 of 12693 Old 12-11-2017, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by JosephOfGary View Post
I just put some hockey pucks underneath the four corners... Seems legit?
The problem with hockey pucks is that they are too rigid.

When the surface is too rigid, the vibration of the sub makes it slide off the pad. Therefore, the pad should be soft enough that it compresses a bit and prevent the sub from sliding off, yet rigid enough that it provides enough support.

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post #6921 of 12693 Old 12-11-2017, 08:20 PM
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some subs dont vibrate a mm...nothing.

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post #6922 of 12693 Old 12-11-2017, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by torii View Post
some subs dont vibrate a mm...nothing.
Alright. Fair enough.

Do the following experiment:
1. Put the yellow pages or a thick book on your mattress then punch down on the yellow pages.
2. Put a rolled up sleeping bag on your mattress then punch down on the sleeping bag.

Which makes your mattress shake more?

You will find that the sleeping bag absorbed most of the force from your punch. Therefore, very little of your punch was transferred to your mattress. The sleeping bag isolated the mattress from your punch!

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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i do enough punching on my mattresses not falling for your funnies

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post #6924 of 12693 Old 12-11-2017, 08:49 PM
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Or think about it this way.

Imagine now our tires are make of something solid and rigid instead. This would make every ride very bumpy.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
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post #6925 of 12693 Old 12-11-2017, 09:35 PM
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My favorite isolators are rubber with a cork center. They are sold as 2", 3", 4" and larger sqaures by various companies/vendors. I use the 2" for components and 3" or 4" for big amplifiers and subs. They are also good for air compressors, condensors, washers & dryers.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HZS0CH6/
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post #6926 of 12693 Old 12-12-2017, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
It should be along the line like below:



The LF adjust is different between the 2015 Cap 1400 on data-bass and the 2017 version.

For the 2015 LF Adjust, 12 o'clock = flat outdoors, minimum (Cut) = -6dB and maximum (Boost) = +6dB

For the 2017 LF Adjust, Maximum (Boost) = flat outdoors, minimum (Cut) = -6dB and 12 o'clock = -3dB -- maybe Jeff can chime in on this...

Therefore, the 2017 Cap 1400 FR with LF Adjust at Maximum should be similar with the FR you see on data-bass.

Thanks, alwaysappreciate your graphs and charts. I did read it's a little over a 1db gain inthe low end, just not from what point and would there be any loss elsewhere that offsets the 1db gain in the low end? I'm sure @Jeff has the actual measurements (chart/graph), so it'd be nice to see them.



I take it the "sounds better" is due to the improved driver, ports, cabinet bracing,damping and dsp? Overall lower %THD?



In an average living room HT system (air conditioner too) w/15amp breakers, would there be any issues with dual Cap 1400's?

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post #6927 of 12693 Old 12-12-2017, 08:14 AM
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I'm sure dual 1400s cant play on the same 15 amp breaker......can they??
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post #6928 of 12693 Old 12-12-2017, 08:34 AM
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I'm sure dual 1400s cant play on the same 15 amp breaker......can they??
Yes, they can. The amps are very efficient so it would be very hard if not impossible to trip the breaker.
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post #6929 of 12693 Old 12-12-2017, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorderl View Post
Thanks, alwaysappreciate your graphs and charts. I did read it's a little over a 1db gain in the low end, just not from what point and would there be any loss elsewhere that offsets the 1db gain in the low end? I'm sure @Jeff Has the actually measurements (chart/graph), so it'd be nice to see them.

I take it the "sounds better" is due to the improved driver, ports, cabinet bracing,damping and dsp? Overall lower %THD?

In an average living room HT system (air conditioner too) w/15amp breakers, would there be any issues with dual Cap 1400's?
AFAIK, back in 2015, the Captivator 1400 and Orbit Shifter still had the 30mm xmax (each way) driver. Jeff switched to the current custom driver with 33mm xmax (each way) and the same t/s.

Jeff mentioned that for the 2017 version, he also made the port taller which further lowered the chuffing. The damping made the sub sound even tighter.

Dual Cap 1400s should be fine with 15 amp breakers. I am more concerned with the AC unit though. I think as long as you are not starting the AC and running the first 40 seconds of Edge of Tomorrow at the same time, you should be fine.

My HT is an addition off the kitchen and shares the same 30 amp circuit. The only time the circuit tripped was when we were running the AC, using the coffeemaker (1000W) and the microwave (1200W) at the same time. That was before I got my 2015 Cap 1400.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 12-12-2017 at 09:32 AM.
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post #6930 of 12693 Old 12-12-2017, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
AFAIK, back in 2015, the Captivator 1400 and Orbit Shifter still had the 30mm xmax (each way) driver. Jeff switched to the current custom driver with 33mm xmax (each way) and the same t/s.

Jeff mentioned that for the 2017 version, he also made the port taller which further lowered the chuffing. The damping made the sub sound even tighter.

Dual Cap 1400s should be fine with 15 amp breakers. I am more concerned with the AC unit though. I think as long as you are not starting the AC and running the first 40 seconds of Edge of Tomorrow at the same time, you should be fine.

My HT is an addition off the kitchen and shares the same 30 amp circuit. The only time the circuit tripped was when we were running the AC, using the coffeemaker (1000W) and the microwave (1200W) at the same time. That was before I got my 2015 Cap 1400.
Yea, figured the AC unit may be an issue. I keep it in energy saver mode, so it powers up and down on its own.
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