Official JTR Speakers Subwoofer Thread - Page 252 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #7531 of 13469 Old 03-16-2018, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by schwaggs View Post
Congratulations Chucky! Your comment made me spray coffee all over my screen. Since you two are that light, better install seatbelts on your theater seats before flexing that 4000!

I wonder what your neighbors are going to think of your new system!
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Originally Posted by Docethic View Post
Congrats! Did your neighbors move or are you planning on moving them with the 4000??
I hope they move away. And I'm being dead serious.
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post #7532 of 13469 Old 03-16-2018, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by point1 View Post
went from 4 Seaton Submersives.

Love the submersives and the mid bass slam, I'm just on concrete so I didn't get enough TR. Now I put some platforms under the seats. I should have plenty. Now what to do about the midbass...
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build a set of diysg 1299 or 1899 speakers...
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Originally Posted by point1 View Post
Wish I had the room, as it is the JTR212s are crowding the front and prevents me from doing 2.35 to 1. I can't really go AT because that would push the screen to close to the first row, I will probably see the microperf...
Perfect timing. I'm about to head over and I almost forgot to take the MBMs for you to try out.

2x Turbosound iP12b
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post #7533 of 13469 Old 03-16-2018, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by point1 View Post
Here are my lowly 3 x cap 2400s

They looked puny next to the 4k

Congrats! They may "look" puny next to the 4k, but trust me, they will not sound puny in the slightest. That's some serious power you have. Enjoy.
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post #7534 of 13469 Old 03-16-2018, 10:53 AM
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Picked up the 2400 from Point1 last night. Thanks again Point1. Your theater looks pretty awesome.

Unfortunately after hooking it up (before eq), I notice a slight hum. It's on the same circuit as my speaker amp and receiver. The SVS 13 ultra is dead silent, but is on a separate circuit behind my couch. I can't switch position. Any quick and easy solution?

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post #7535 of 13469 Old 03-16-2018, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
There were 7 subs in total, delivered to point1's residence. A huge thank you to point1

6 Cap 2400ULFs and a Cap 4000ULF.

3 2400ULFs for point1

1 2400ULFs for ttn333

2 2400ULFs for my friend,

1 Cap 4000ULF for yours truly...
Congratulations Chucky!! Based on the performance of your 1400 the new 4000 is going to be insane. Good luck with that neighbor their going to flip lol. Hopefully they dont respond like mine have this past week, smashing apples and oranges against my house
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post #7536 of 13469 Old 03-16-2018, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by ttn333 View Post
Unfortunately after hooking it up (before eq), I notice a slight hum. It's on the same circuit as my speaker amp and receiver. The SVS 13 ultra is dead silent, but is on a separate circuit behind my couch. I can't switch position. Any quick and easy solution?
Being on the same circuit as the amp and receiver (and most likely maybe TV, cable box as well) is the main reason.

There are some trouble shooting you can do. Look up "Ground Loops"

First free thing you can try is putting the 2400ULF near the 13 Ultra. Hook up the 2400ULF with the 13 Ultra subwoofer cable and power cord. Does the 2400ULF hum? If it doesn't then at least you know that the 2400ULF did not cause this.

For now, the quick and easy would be to use a cheaper plug. At least you can start listening to the Cap 2400ULF now.

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Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
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FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #7537 of 13469 Old 03-16-2018, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Adamg (Ret-Navy) View Post
Chucky,

I can't think of a more deserving person in here to finally get the Crown Jewel of Subs. Without any fanfare you snuck this in on us How did you hold back?
Thank you for the kind words! I didn't want to make a big fuss about it. After all, it's just a sub...

Quote:
I have one last question. After you get the new 4K dialed in, what will be the very First Movie you have chosen to be the Premiere Movie Event ?
Good question...

I haven't watched any movies for a couple of weeks now and there are some new releases that I should watch... However, most of the the newer release blockbusters don't dig below 15Hz...

So it is possible I will pop in some older reference bass flicks. I will definitely play those chuff-inducing bass clips.

Quote:
P.S. If possible would love to see Pre-4K install REW Plots and Post Install REW plots. I bet many here would be interested in how the 4K tames your FR.....
I will definitely post some FRs first because I can do REW even in the middle of the night. To start, it will be 4000ULF vs the 1400 at the same spot though.
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Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 03-17-2018 at 04:27 PM.
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post #7538 of 13469 Old 03-16-2018, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by ttn333 View Post
Picked up the 2400 from Point1 last night. Thanks again Point1. Your theater looks pretty awesome.

Unfortunately after hooking it up (before eq), I notice a slight hum. It's on the same circuit as my speaker amp and receiver. The SVS 13 ultra is dead silent, but is on a separate circuit behind my couch. I can't switch position. Any quick and easy solution?
Try running a wire from one of the plate amp screws to one of your receiver chassis screws. This hum can happen when you receiver is using a 2 prong cord and the sub amp is using a three prong.
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post #7539 of 13469 Old 03-16-2018, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by indebtbassfreak View Post
Congratulations Chucky!! Based on the performance of your 1400 the new 4000 is going to be insane. Good luck with that neighbor their going to flip lol. Hopefully they dont respond like mine have this past week, smashing apples and oranges against my house
Maybe they just thought you needed more fresh fruit in your diet....do you play loud late at night?
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post #7540 of 13469 Old 03-16-2018, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by indebtbassfreak View Post
Congratulations Chucky!! Based on the performance of your 1400 the new 4000 is going to be insane. Good luck with that neighbor their going to flip lol. Hopefully they dont respond like mine have this past week, smashing apples and oranges against my house
Hmm... citrus apple cider!

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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
For now, the quick and easy would be to use a cheaper plug. At least you can start listening to the Cap 2400ULF now.
Will try the cheater plug for now. Also looked into ground isolator transformers from bluejean cables. Truth is, I'm hoping to be lucky and find an easy simple fix. Will start by removing the cable box from the equation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pradeep2 View Post
Try running a wire from one of the plate amp screws to one of your receiver chassis screws. This hum can happen when you receiver is using a 2 prong cord and the sub amp is using a three prong.
Hadn't thought about this one. Will definitely give it a try. Receiver goes through a power conditioner, just like the amp and everything else except the 2 subs and projector.
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post #7541 of 13469 Old 03-16-2018, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by schwaggs View Post
I wonder what your neighbors are going to think of your new system!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Docethic View Post
Congrats! Did your neighbors move or are you planning on moving them with the 4000??
Quote:
Originally Posted by indebtbassfreak View Post
Good luck with that neighbor their going to flip lol. Hopefully they dont respond like mine have this past week, smashing apples and oranges against my house


Let's see, the last time the mother called was around New Years when I was reviewing the Monolith 15". Then before that was:

I: "Legally, the loudness I am listening to is within limits, you know..."
She: "Yes, but..."
I: "There is nothing I can do" and I hung up.

I think I have the neighbors acclimated to the Cap 1400 level. It's time to increase that threshold...

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 03-16-2018 at 01:37 PM.
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post #7542 of 13469 Old 03-16-2018, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Pradeep2 View Post
Maybe they just thought you needed more fresh fruit in your diet....do you play loud late at night?
Almost never and the rare time i do i shut it down by 9pm. Both recent indedents tunes were on at -15MV between 5/8PM. They just really hate any form of bass.

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post #7543 of 13469 Old 03-16-2018, 02:12 PM
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Almost never and the rare time i do i shut it down by 9pm. Both recent indedents tunes were on at -15MV between 5/8PM. They just really hate any form of bass.
That sounds horrible, my commiserations. One thing I made sure of when we last moved was deep concrete basement and no close by neighbors.
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post #7544 of 13469 Old 03-16-2018, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post


Let's see, the last time the mother called was around New Years when I was reviewing the Monolith 15". Then before that was:

I: "Legally, the loudness I am listening to is within limits, you know..."
She: "Yes, but..."
I: "There is nothing I can do" and I hung up.

I think I have the neighbors acclimated to the Cap 1400 level. It's time to increase that threshold...
What are the limits? Not to exceed x db at property line after certain hours? Or is it no limits during daylight hours?
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post #7545 of 13469 Old 03-16-2018, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Being on the same circuit as the amp and receiver (and most likely maybe TV, cable box as well) is the main reason.

There are some trouble shooting you can do. Look up "Ground Loops"

First free thing you can try is putting the 2400ULF near the 13 Ultra. Hook up the 2400ULF with the 13 Ultra subwoofer cable and power cord. Does the 2400ULF hum? If it doesn't then at least you know that the 2400ULF did not cause this.

For now, the quick and easy would be to use a cheaper plug. At least you can start listening to the Cap 2400ULF now.
i had a hard time getting rid of a ground loop (or at least a hum) that developed for no good reason. Ended up being caused by my light dimmer
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post #7546 of 13469 Old 03-16-2018, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Pradeep2 View Post
What are the limits? Not to exceed x db at property line after certain hours? Or is it no limits during daylight hours?


60 dBA at property line from 10 pm to 7 am, 65 dBA at property line from 7 am to 10 pm.

However, someone has pointed out that since it is dBA, it basically is as loud as possible...

I have measured 60 dBC right outside of the French doors off the family room. The French doors have almost no insulation and are not facing the complaining household.
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FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

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post #7547 of 13469 Old 03-16-2018, 02:35 PM
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i had a hard time getting rid of a ground loop (or at least a hum) that developed for no good reason. Ended up being caused by my light dimmer
That's interesting. I have two sets of lutron dimmers. I did have the dimmers on at the time. Will try with them off. Or does that even matter? What was your solution?

By the way. Does JTR come with a manual?

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post #7548 of 13469 Old 03-16-2018, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by ttn333 View Post
That's interesting. I have two sets of lutron dimmers. I did have the dimmers on at the time. Will try with them off. Or does that even matter? What was your solution?

By the way. Does JTR come with a manual?


I never used the dimmer, so i just took it out. Turning it off/on didn’t seem to make
a differrence. I never would have even thought of it, but I saw someone in another thread mention dimmers as a source of problems
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post #7549 of 13469 Old 03-16-2018, 03:27 PM
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No manual with JTR subwoofers unless Jeff has very recently came out with one, he walks you through the correct settings then you tweak from there or can get great advice on here as well and from Jeff when he has time.

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post #7550 of 13469 Old 03-16-2018, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Pradeep2 View Post
That sounds horrible, my commiserations. One thing I made sure of when we last moved was deep concrete basement and no close by neighbors.
It was a good thing i didn't hear the impact, or it would have become ugly likely resulting in charges. That is crossing the line. But whatever i have them admitting doing it via email exchanges. Next time i'll charge them.

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post #7551 of 13469 Old 03-16-2018, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post


60 dBA at property line from 10 pm to 7 am, 65 dBA at property line from 7 am to 10 pm.

However, someone has pointed out that since it is dBA, it basically is as loud as possible...

I have measured 60 dBA right outside of the French doors off the family room. The French doors have almost no insulation and are not facing the complaining household.
Thanks Chucky i took a photo of that chart on my phone in case cops show up at my door. Hopefully the dont realize its a bylaw outside Canada.

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post #7552 of 13469 Old 03-16-2018, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post


Let's see, the last time the mother called was around New Years when I was reviewing the Monolith 15". Then before that was:

I: "Legally, the loudness I am listening to is within limits, you know..."
She: "Yes, but..."
I: "There is nothing I can do" and I hung up.

I think I have the neighbors acclimated to the Cap 1400 level. It's time to increase that threshold...
Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post


60 dBA at property line from 10 pm to 7 am, 65 dBA at property line from 7 am to 10 pm.

However, someone has pointed out that since it is dBA, it basically is as loud as possible...

I have measured 60 dBA right outside of the French doors off the family room. The French doors have almost no insulation and are not facing the complaining household.

Hahaha... I thought you were bluffing with your neighbors. Should have known better.
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post #7553 of 13469 Old 03-16-2018, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by ttn333 View Post
Does JTR come with a manual?
Since you already have a top notch sub, the Cap 1400 guide below should get you started. The only difference is how the LF Adjust knob shapes your FR:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...l#post55555864

Below is the 2400 ULF LF Adjust @ Cut (White) vs @ Boost (Blue)
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post #7554 of 13469 Old 03-16-2018, 05:44 PM
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Except as otherwise provided in this article, no person shall make or continue, cause to be made or continued, or allow to be made or continued, any sound resulting in an exceedance of the following limits as measured on any other property receiving the sound: Table 1

General Sound-Level Limits

Land Use Category
Time Maximum dB Residential Daytime 55 Nighttime 50
Office/Commercial Daytime 65 Nighttime 60
Industrial Daytime 75 Nighttime 70
Sound projecting from property of one land use category onto property of another land use category having a lower sound-level limit shall not exceed the limits for the property of the land use category onto which it is projected.


every city is different...50 db lol

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post #7555 of 13469 Old 03-16-2018, 07:30 PM
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Except as otherwise provided in this article, no person shall make or continue, cause to be made or continued, or allow to be made or continued, any sound resulting in an exceedance of the following limits as measured on any other property receiving the sound: Table 1

General Sound-Level Limits

Land Use Category
Time Maximum dB Residential Daytime 55 Nighttime 50
Office/Commercial Daytime 65 Nighttime 60
Industrial Daytime 75 Nighttime 70
Sound projecting from property of one land use category onto property of another land use category having a lower sound-level limit shall not exceed the limits for the property of the land use category onto which it is projected.


every city is different...50 db lol
Yes. The limits I posted are for Rancho Cucamonga, California.

Just FYI, the key here is dBA weighting that the city governments use. When those by-laws were written/established, the lawmakers only had general noise > 80Hz in mind... We know that sound > 80 Hz are much easier to contain and bass < 80 Hz works very differently.

When we measure with REW, we are measuring in dBZ, which is closer to dBC. At 63 Hz, 100 dBC = 75 dBA and at 32Hz, 100 dBC = 64 dBA.

This means, even if you are playing 125dB at 32Hz indoors, you are only playing 89 dB at A weighting. When you're in your backyard, the spl becomes much lower, and lowered yet again when you go to the property line.
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Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 03-17-2018 at 04:38 PM.
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post #7556 of 13469 Old 03-16-2018, 08:35 PM
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Ahhh one of the reasons I can never move. For some reason none of my neighbors can ever hear my system.

If we moved I it would really suck to have neighbors hear the bass because I've been spoiled for so long.
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post #7557 of 13469 Old 03-16-2018, 09:58 PM
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i cannot imagine having nearby neighbors. i grew up in a small apartment and now i despise any thickly settled suburbs... God forbid - urban situations. if i am watching a movie or listening to music.... a neighbor coming and complaining or calling the cops on me is akin to a mental rape...

i understand that life serves different folks differently and everybody has their priorities, but living in a place where other folks can hear (and see) what i am doing is not something i am willing to tolerate at this point in my life. having a house remote from other folks and having my garages and yard and workspace is essential to me. there is a sense of freedom and self- sufficiency that i am not willing to trade for anything.

and yes, i consider myself lucky. and yes- the whiskey is talking...
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post #7558 of 13469 Old 03-16-2018, 11:31 PM
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Captivator 4000ULF impression so far:

I finally had the chance to move the beast into my HT/family room. I haven't had the time to fine tune its location yet. Therefore, I put it where I had my 1400 and where I reviewed the Monolith 15" before - the tested and true spot next to my right main speaker. First I set the LF Adjust @ 12 o’clock then ran the MCACC, then turned the LF Adjust to the max. This is to match how I usually listen to my 1400. As usual, I listening at MV of -13dB.

Right off the bat, I played Bassotronics - Bass, I Love You and The End of My Life is You. Potent subs that can handle the deep bass are built for songs like these. The Cap 1400 belted out precise and controlled bass notes. However, as awesome as the 1400 is, there was still a slight hint of loud wind noise at the lowest 7 Hz. The 4000ULF exhibited no chuffing whatsoever. The bass was even cleaner, more effortless and articulate throughout. So much so that if not for the potent port wind, I would have thought that I was listening to a sealed sub. The drivers barely moved.

I believe the break-in period is for the user's ears. Therefore, I went for the gusto - Edge of Tomorrow first 40 seconds. The hot bass signals start at 30Hz, then 25Hz, 20Hz, 15Hz and finally 10 Hz. From 30Hz, the tactile response from the 1400 was amazing. The port wind at 20Hz and 15Hz was tremendous. The chuffing was also apparent, though not objectionable, at those 20 and 15Hz. The chuffing and port wind both stopped at 10Hz, and spl was way down as 10Hz is way below 1400's port tune. The 4000ULF produced no chuffing at all... alright, maybe there was a little wind howling at 10Hz. However, it was again, very tolerable even for those who prefer sealed subs because they just can’t stand the chuffing. The bass notes were distinctive and not colored. Now that I think about it, I believe a lot of what I heard from the 1400 were the 2nd or even 3rd harmonics rather than the fundamentals. The 4000ULF played the bass with authority and very little, if any, distortion. Instead, I heard a lot of house shaking and window vibrating because there was no chuffing and distortion to mask them!

Next up were World War Z - Granade scene and Pulse - Server scene. Two words. No chuffing. The Granade scene contains a sweep that goes down to 15 Hz and the Server scene is a loop of 17Hz sweep. These two scenes are problematic for most 15” and 18” ported ID subs because they are tuned to high teens. Not so for the 4000ULF. Data-bass CEA 2010 numbers suggest that the 4000ULF is equal to 2 1400s above 20Hz and destroys the 1400 below 20Hz. Be it the extra headroom or its 10 Hz port tune, the 4000ULF just sounded more refined and less edgy than the 1400. It was effortless and smooth.

Then I remembered that I felt nothing in my HT playing Black Hawk Down - Irene before on my Cap 1400 and Marc's sealed PSA S3000i. Expecting the Cap 1400 to play the scene is unreasonable. I needed much more than 2 PSA S3000i to pressurize my HT in order to feel 7 Hz. I want to feel it. I felt it in point1's dedicated HT. That's why I asked him what's wrong with it after I hearing the 7 Hz in his HT. I also know that it requires higher spl to feel 7Hz, so I turned the MV up to -8dB... Then I started to sound like this guy...


When the chopper blades were spinning, the 4000ULF's twin drivers went crazy and pumped out glorious amount of wind. I felt the change in air pressure. I started yelling "Yes! yes! yes!" with a huge grin on my face.

I also wanted to see my favorite bass demo clip: Olympus Has Fallen - Washington Monument scene. This clip has one of the longest ULF bass note and my Cap 1400 was undaunted by it. Recall my Cap 1400 registered 118dB playing this scene before:



The same spl was a walk in the park for the 4000ULF. It handled the scene with more finesse and replied "Is that all you got?" The 4000ULF provided the same TR and rumble. However, some how I feel that the sub made the noisy scene quieter. The bass was very crisp and did not linger.

I played the other chuff inducing scene, Don't Breathe - Money shot scene. The Cap 1400 was up to the task but still exhibited very slight chuffing. 4000ULF took it on and passed the chuffing test with flying colors. I could be imagining this but I thought the 4000ULF provided the same TR and rumble, but with less undesirable roughness.

Finally I played Justin Bieber - Baby Live at MSG. This MV is bass heavy and there were even explosives on stage. It can make 1400 sound a little boomy or muddy due to room resonance. The 4000ULF just sounded cleaner and tighter. I felt that even the 50~100Hz bass from kick drum sounded more crisp, controlled and precise.

It is a complete 'ear' opening experience as I have never had so much headroom and heard so little distortion. The Captivator 4000ULF is also drastically different from the JTR Caps I have heard. After all, the most powerful one I have heard was mine at my HT and at Marc's huge den. It does take some time to sink in and get used to. The Cap 1400 is already a very capable sub that is plentiful for 99% of the 3000 cu ft HT areas out there. It fills my HT with clean and earth shattering bass. Honestly, I didn't know what to expect from a 4000ULF because the 1400 can already provide the 115dB+ at the MLP. This is also one of the reasons I have held out for so long. The group buy was the last straw. Did the 4000ULF provide double the TR and rumble? Of course not, because I listened at the same MV. The upgrade is primarily on the quality side. The headroom also greatly reduced the distortion. No wonder so many people want to go dual, even if the subs would conveniently flank the TV. The 4000ULF is 2 Cap 1400s > 20Hz but below 20Hz, there is no comparison. Better extension is so much harder and more expensive to achieve. I am so glad that I went with the 4000ULF rather than getting another 1400.

In the Cap 1400, I already have a nice USDA Prime filet mignon. I was expecting 2 of the same fine steak when I ordered the Cap 4000ULF. I couldn't be more wrong. Instead, I received an A5 grade Japanese Wagyu Kobe ribeye steak - the best steak money can buy.
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Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 07-13-2018 at 09:59 AM.
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post #7559 of 13469 Old 03-16-2018, 11:54 PM
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Captivator 4000 vs 2 2400ULFs







Just to show the size of that thing!







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Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 03-16-2018 at 11:58 PM.
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post #7560 of 13469 Old 03-17-2018, 01:13 AM
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Looks and sounds like a fantastic experience. Think you'll eventually swap the cap 1400 for another 4000?
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