Official JTR Speakers Subwoofer Thread - Page 282 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 18725Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #8431 of 13412 Old 05-31-2018, 11:10 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
chucky7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Posts: 4,692
Mentioned: 299 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3569 Post(s)
Liked: 4592
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
The price changes are due to rising costs. Jeff has vowed never to compromise on component quality (so don't mention MDF to him ).
The cost reduction in switching from BB ply to MDF is probably not that much considering the freight will also increase. It will also be more difficult for the customer to move a heavier cabinet.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
chucky7 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #8432 of 13412 Old 05-31-2018, 12:03 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
chucky7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Posts: 4,692
Mentioned: 299 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3569 Post(s)
Liked: 4592
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pradeep2 View Post
There was talk about Fi Audio getting out of the OEM business. Perhaps a change in driver manufacturer? That could explain the change in port design. Endless speculation will continue till we get official news
I don't think there is a change in driver manufacturer. toddct's new 2400ULF driver looks the same with those on my less than 3 months old 4000ULF.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
chucky7 is online now  
post #8433 of 13412 Old 05-31-2018, 01:35 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 18,676
Mentioned: 135 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2519 Post(s)
Liked: 2606
The new 2400ULF was measured on Data-bass.
flat4 and ziocomposite like this.

Building the room, speakers, and subs.
MKtheater is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #8434 of 13412 Old 05-31-2018, 01:42 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 188
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 103 Post(s)
Liked: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
The new 2400ULF was measured on Data-bass.
https://data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=148
flat4 likes this.
ziocomposite is offline  
post #8435 of 13412 Old 05-31-2018, 01:43 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
desertdome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Blair, NE
Posts: 3,780
Mentioned: 315 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1535 Post(s)
Liked: 1837
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
The new 2400ULF was measured on Data-bass.
Here is the link for those wanting to read the data: https://data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=148

It has been up for a week, but not linked to on the first page.

Here is the comparison of two 2400-ULF's vs a single 4000-ULF:

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	2400-ULF vs 4000-ULF.PNG
Views:	408
Size:	25.1 KB
ID:	2410030  
SuperFist and flat4 like this.

Ponderosa Theater
High Impact AV
- ISF Level III Video Calibrator, THX-HAA HT3 Audio Designer/Calibrator

Last edited by desertdome; 05-31-2018 at 01:51 PM.
desertdome is online now  
post #8436 of 13412 Old 05-31-2018, 01:47 PM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 130
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 177 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Just ordered the 2400 2 days back with the matte finish. Trying to reach Jeff to upgrade the finish. Hopefully, it's not too late. I also dont know if the price change is due to any change in driver or frequency but hoping if he does do the upgrade I get it on the order. Wondering if I should have waited. Hopefully don't get the buyers remorse. Waiting to hear back from Jeff. Anyone know the link to the facebook page, will need to follow it for any announcements.
mir3acles is offline  
post #8437 of 13412 Old 05-31-2018, 02:58 PM
Senior Member
 
schwaggs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Atlanta Metro area
Posts: 418
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 298 Post(s)
Liked: 414
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post
Here is the link for those wanting to read the data: https://data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=148

It has been up for a week, but not linked to on the first page.

Here is the comparison of two 2400-ULF's vs a single 4000-ULF:

Very disappointing it was tested with LFA set to the mid position. Isn't that like making most of the measurements with one hand tied behind your back? How valuable are long term output sweeps and max burst test with the LFA at the mid position? Don't people want to know the limit it can do?


People can always adjust out room gain if they choose. I, for one, have the LFA at min (no cut). I like the extra output down low.
schwaggs is offline  
post #8438 of 13412 Old 05-31-2018, 03:08 PM
Senior Member
 
schwaggs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Atlanta Metro area
Posts: 418
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 298 Post(s)
Liked: 414
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
The price changes are due to rising costs. Jeff has vowed never to compromise on component quality (so don't mention MDF to him ).

<spoiler>
The 10Hz tune is to, 1) allow for mixing and matching of 2400 and 4000 ULFs without worrying about phase cancellations (likely only a potential issue in sealed rooms). 2) Allow someone to take advantage of dual subs while preserving the performance/extension of a single 4000.

Jeff listens to the customers. Folks wanted an upright version of the 2400 (this was the first time I had ever emailed him) and I don't think many have requested the low-rider since. I've always had a preference for the 2400 as its size & weight are much more manageable and have more placement flexibility.

The databass article confirms the new design is tuned to near 10hz. I wonder if Jeff will offer us 2400ULF early adopters a cabinet upgrade!
schwaggs is offline  
post #8439 of 13412 Old 05-31-2018, 03:10 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Marc Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Inland Empire, CA
Posts: 13,518
Mentioned: 240 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5472 Post(s)
Liked: 4972
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post
Here is the link for those wanting to read the data: https://data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=148

It has been up for a week, but not linked to on the first page.

Here is the comparison of two 2400-ULF's vs a single 4000-ULF:

I assume you are going by the data-bass data. The 2400ULF measurements could be a little low as it looks like it was tested on a pretty hot day.

I would expect two 2400s could even score a smidge higher than a 4000 tested back-to-back.

Michael, do you know if a port can be plugged on a dual port 2400ULF? I don't need the extra extension of the new tune for my den, but I am curious. I still have a ULF hole to fill <35Hz in my media room. I've been sitting on the fence of indecision (ported, sealed, or both) for a while now.

One thing is for sure, I DO NOT need a 4000ULF-lp. Chucky's energized the whole house like i couldn't have imagined. The 2400ULF is all I need. A 2400 is really all Chucky needs honestly. He seems to be a glutton for physical punishment. The 4000ULF is truly his "precious".
toddct, SuperFist and Pradeep2 like this.
Marc Alexander is offline  
post #8440 of 13412 Old 05-31-2018, 03:11 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,675
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1012 Post(s)
Liked: 1261
Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
I don't think there is a change in driver manufacturer. toddct's new 2400ULF driver looks the same with those on my less than 3 months old 4000ULF.
Yeah looks like just the port/tuning change. How does the edit old Cap 2400 compare to the 2400ULF? Im guessing a little less up high to deliver deeper extension to 10Hz?
Pradeep2 is offline  
post #8441 of 13412 Old 05-31-2018, 03:14 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Marc Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Inland Empire, CA
Posts: 13,518
Mentioned: 240 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5472 Post(s)
Liked: 4972
Quote:
Originally Posted by mir3acles View Post
Just ordered the 2400 2 days back with the matte finish. Trying to reach Jeff to upgrade the finish. Hopefully, it's not too late. I also dont know if the price change is due to any change in driver or frequency but hoping if he does do the upgrade I get it on the order. Wondering if I should have waited. Hopefully don't get the buyers remorse. Waiting to hear back from Jeff. Anyone know the link to the facebook page, will need to follow it for any announcements.
There is a queue so I'm sure you have time to change the finish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by schwaggs View Post
Very disappointing it was tested with LFA set to the mid position. Isn't that like making most of the measurements with one hand tied behind your back? No
How valuable are long term output sweeps and max burst test with the LFA at the mid position?
[/quote]
Very! LFA is simply a filter and has no effect on these measurements.
Marc Alexander is offline  
post #8442 of 13412 Old 05-31-2018, 03:16 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,675
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1012 Post(s)
Liked: 1261
Quote:
Originally Posted by schwaggs View Post
Very disappointing it was tested with LFA set to the mid position. Isn't that like making most of the measurements with one hand tied behind your back? How valuable are long term output sweeps and max burst test with the LFA at the mid position? Don't people want to know the limit it can do?


People can always adjust out room gain if they choose. I, for one, have the LFA at min (no cut). I like the extra output down low.
The way databass tests it really doesnt matter that the room size control is set to middle. Ricci finds the maximum output limits at each frequency regardless.
Pradeep2 is offline  
post #8443 of 13412 Old 05-31-2018, 03:19 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Marc Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Inland Empire, CA
Posts: 13,518
Mentioned: 240 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5472 Post(s)
Liked: 4972
Quote:
Originally Posted by schwaggs View Post
The databass article confirms the new design is tuned to near 10hz. I wonder if Jeff will offer us 2400ULF early adopters a cabinet upgrade!
How many 2400s do you have? What are your room dimensions? Room sealed or open?

We earlier 2400 owners may be able to plug a port to lower the tune if it would benefit you. Stay tuned

My room is open to the whole house and on a concrete slab so the 14Hz is my preference at the moment.
Marc Alexander is offline  
post #8444 of 13412 Old 05-31-2018, 03:33 PM
AVS ***** Member
 
mthomas47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,268
Mentioned: 345 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5482 Post(s)
Liked: 10460
Quote:
Originally Posted by schwaggs View Post
Very disappointing it was tested with LFA set to the mid position. Isn't that like making most of the measurements with one hand tied behind your back? How valuable are long term output sweeps and max burst test with the LFA at the mid position? Don't people want to know the limit it can do?

People can always adjust out room gain if they choose. I, for one, have the LFA at min (no cut). I like the extra output down low.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pradeep2 View Post
The way databass tests it really doesnt matter that the room size control is set to middle. Ricci finds the maximum output limits at each frequency regardless.

FWIW, I think that the test results are very impressive. But then, the Cap 2400 has always been my favorite JTR subwoofer and now it is probably even more so. I always thought that the emphasis on low-frequency output in a pretty mangeable size cabinet made for an optimum combination.

I was just comparing the predicted max output from Chucky's table on Page 1 of this thread to the Data-Bass test results. It's entirely possible that, in dropping the port tune to 10Hz, Jeff gave up some SPL above the port tune, as it doesn't produce the numbers that were expected above 10Hz. In fact, it isn't as powerful as a Cap 1400 in the mid-bass frequencies.

But, where it really shines is at 10Hz with nearly 102db of output at max burst. I have always believed that a subwoofer that can get up into the 115db range outdoors, for the mid-bass frequencies, is going to be fine inside a room, since there should always be some boundary gain. And, the Cap 2400 easily exceeds that number in the mid-bass frequencies. But, getting over 100db at 10Hz is truly impressive, and even better than what was originally predicted with the 14Hz port tune.

Depending on room size, I can also see having the LFA setting at or near the maximum. But, I still believe that the ideal use of any of these subwoofers is to never have to push them all the way to their max output limits.

Regards,
Mike
cannga, chucky7, toddct and 1 others like this.

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
mthomas47 is offline  
post #8445 of 13412 Old 05-31-2018, 03:44 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
cannga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Palos Verdes - Lakers Land
Posts: 3,406
Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1900 Post(s)
Liked: 1845
Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
...
I was just comparing the predicted max output from Chucky's table on Page 1 of this thread to the Data-Bass test results. It's entirely possible that, in dropping the port tune to 10Hz, Jeff gave up some SPL above the port tune, as it doesn't produce the numbers that were expected above 10Hz. In fact, it isn't as powerful as a Cap 1400 in the mid-bass frequencies.

But, where it really shines is at 10Hz with nearly 102db of output at max burst.
You took the words right out of my mouth as usual. I was about to post the figures but you have a quicker trigger finger. To best of my knowledge, ultra low bass versus upper bass is a design trade-off. This is why whenever I see a subwoofer with ultra low bass capability, the first place I look is in the upper bass. How much did designer sacrifice upper bass with his low tune?

This is the reason why only behemoths like 2400 and 4000 dare to venture into these low tunes: it takes
1. a lot of power,
2. a lot of driver (powerful high Xmax)
3. a lot of box (huge box)
to have a low tune and not sacrifice upper bass.

Anyway besides the objective numbers, more importantly subjectively how would the trade-off's sound differently? Only Jeff knows, and he ain't talking so far.
mthomas47 likes this.

Regards, Can
My System & Theta Casablanca Mini-Review (CB IVa setup help HERE) Uncontrolled passion for music, and sound.
Interesting Audio Diagrams :-) & High-End Speaker Reviews
JTR Subwoofer Thread I don't always listen to subwoofers, but when I do, it's JTR :-).

Last edited by cannga; 05-31-2018 at 04:03 PM.
cannga is offline  
post #8446 of 13412 Old 05-31-2018, 03:48 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
cannga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Palos Verdes - Lakers Land
Posts: 3,406
Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1900 Post(s)
Liked: 1845
Tremendous achievement and eye popping numbers by the little company JTR. I feel very confident to designate these subwoofers the title "recommended, without reservation", and I don't bestow these titles lightly.

@mir3acles I was in a similar situation with my JTR 1400 (ordered old 1400 at a discount, got new 1400): can't speak for Jeff but 99% sure he would give you the newest design and whatever finish you would like. And yes a vote to spend more and get the beautiful finish you love. I still look at mine nearly daily and these subwoofers last for years! They become like a treasure. :-)

To all older 2400 owners: please don't feel bad. Think of me: when I ordered my 1400 the 2400 was not available . And then early owners of 2400 got the low boy. They are all "the best" at the time we ordered them.





Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Data Bass Top 10.jpg
Views:	1345
Size:	490.5 KB
ID:	2410090  
Pradeep2 and mir3acles like this.

Regards, Can
My System & Theta Casablanca Mini-Review (CB IVa setup help HERE) Uncontrolled passion for music, and sound.
Interesting Audio Diagrams :-) & High-End Speaker Reviews
JTR Subwoofer Thread I don't always listen to subwoofers, but when I do, it's JTR :-).

Last edited by cannga; 05-31-2018 at 04:03 PM.
cannga is offline  
post #8447 of 13412 Old 05-31-2018, 04:04 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tvuong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 5,325
Mentioned: 93 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2617 Post(s)
Liked: 2375
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
We earlier 2400 owners may be able to plug a port to lower the tune if it would benefit you. Stay tuned
Will be interesting to know. For variable tuned (VT) sub, there is a switch on the amp for each mode. The 2400 being not a VT sub, I am not so sure it is ok to just plug a port. There probably is a difference in DSP shaping on the new single port 2400 versus the original two ports one. I have not read db review but is the single port 2400 more proned to chuffing? Is the port bigger on the 10hz 2400?
tvuong is offline  
post #8448 of 13412 Old 05-31-2018, 04:07 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,675
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1012 Post(s)
Liked: 1261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
How many 2400s do you have? What are your room dimensions? Room sealed or open?

We earlier 2400 owners may be able to plug a port to lower the tune if it would benefit you. Stay tuned

My room is open to the whole house and on a concrete slab so the 14Hz is my preference at the moment.
This may entail just a simple reprogram of the amp by Jeff to drop the high pass filter down to 10Hz. What would be really crazy would be if he could repurpose the room size control (which would be set at max extension or customer preference) to allow selectable high pass, 10 Hz at low and 14 Hz at high, then just need the one port plug...
Pradeep2 is offline  
post #8449 of 13412 Old 05-31-2018, 04:08 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
cannga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Palos Verdes - Lakers Land
Posts: 3,406
Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1900 Post(s)
Liked: 1845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pradeep2 View Post
The way databass tests it really doesnt matter that the room size control is set to middle. Ricci finds the maximum output limits at each frequency regardless.

Pradeep, great point that I have often wondered about, but are you sure it's true? (Real question, not sarcastic at all.)

@Marc Alexander who has done some testing, or any expert here, are we sure that changing the LFE setting does NOT affect CEA burst numbers?

To add to the mystery, the picture at Data-Bass looks like a two port version of the JTR 2400. So it's a two-port version tuned to 10 Hz??

Regards, Can
My System & Theta Casablanca Mini-Review (CB IVa setup help HERE) Uncontrolled passion for music, and sound.
Interesting Audio Diagrams :-) & High-End Speaker Reviews
JTR Subwoofer Thread I don't always listen to subwoofers, but when I do, it's JTR :-).

Last edited by cannga; 05-31-2018 at 04:14 PM.
cannga is offline  
post #8450 of 13412 Old 05-31-2018, 04:09 PM
Senior Member
 
schwaggs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Atlanta Metro area
Posts: 418
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 298 Post(s)
Liked: 414
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Very! LFA is simply a filter and has no effect on these measurements.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pradeep2 View Post
The way databass tests it really doesnt matter that the room size control is set to middle. Ricci finds the maximum output limits at each frequency regardless.

Makes sense, thanks.
schwaggs is offline  
post #8451 of 13412 Old 05-31-2018, 04:09 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Marc Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Inland Empire, CA
Posts: 13,518
Mentioned: 240 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5472 Post(s)
Liked: 4972
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
Will be interesting to know. For variable tuned (VT) sub, there is a switch on the amp for each mode. The 2400 being not a VT sub, I am not so sure it is ok to just plug a port. There probably is a difference in DSP shaping on the new single port 2400 versus the original two ports one. I have not read db review but is the single port 2400 more proned to chuffing? Is the port bigger on the 10hz 2400?
I'm waiting to hear back from Jeff on this. I do know the DSP tuning is different on the new 2400s. However, I suspect existing owners will gain some additional extension. Not as much since filtering is for 14Hz tune.

BTW, VTF designs do not require separate switches. I.E. Monolith & Outlaw subs.
Marc Alexander is offline  
post #8452 of 13412 Old 05-31-2018, 04:12 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Marc Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Inland Empire, CA
Posts: 13,518
Mentioned: 240 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5472 Post(s)
Liked: 4972
Quote:
Originally Posted by cannga View Post
@Marc Alexander who has done some testing, or any expert here, are we sure that changing the LFE setting does NOT affect CEA burst numbers?
Yes. In fact, I believe most of the JTR subs tested by @Ricci were done with LFA at minimum (including the 4000ULF).
Marc Alexander is offline  
post #8453 of 13412 Old 05-31-2018, 04:14 PM
Senior Member
 
schwaggs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Atlanta Metro area
Posts: 418
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 298 Post(s)
Liked: 414
Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post

I was just comparing the predicted max output from Chucky's table on Page 1 of this thread to the Data-Bass test results. It's entirely possible that, in dropping the port tune to 10Hz, Jeff gave up some SPL above the port tune, as it doesn't produce the numbers that were expected above 10Hz. In fact, it isn't as powerful as a Cap 1400 in the mid-bass frequencies.

1-4db less output above 20Hz with 1000W more power is very surprising to me...
schwaggs is offline  
post #8454 of 13412 Old 05-31-2018, 04:14 PM
AVS ***** Member
 
mthomas47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,268
Mentioned: 345 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5482 Post(s)
Liked: 10460
Quote:
Originally Posted by cannga View Post
You took the words right out of my mouth as usual. I was about to post the figures but you have a quicker trigger finger.

To best of my knowledge, ultra low bass versus upper bass is a design trade-off. This is why whenever I see a subwoofer with ultra low bass capability, the first place I look is in the upper bass. How much did designer sacrifice upper bass.

That's the objective number, but subjectively how would the trade-off sound differently? Only Jeff knows, and he ain't talking so far.

I think it's a really interesting question. I have my own general theory, which I believe makes some sense. But, even with my generalization, a lot would depend on room size and the crossovers someone is using. I think if someone is using crossovers no higher than ~80Hz, that subwoofers which produce more low-bass SPL might be especially valuable. That would particularly be the case if the room size were ~2500^3 or more. Smaller rooms might reinforce the frequencies below about 30Hz enough that it would make less difference to have strong low-bass. And, of course, a lot would still depend on pure preference for low-bass versus mid-bass.

My thinking has always been that if you want to hear frequencies below 30Hz, in equilibrium with mid-bass frequencies, you need subwoofers that accentuate those very low-frequencies. That is because, if you boost your subwoofer loudly enough to get strong low-bass sounds and tactile sensations, you will also be boosting the mid-bass frequencies at the same time. And, they were easier to hear in the first place.

So, the more discrepancy there is between the mid-bass and the low-bass, in the subwoofer's fundamental frequency response, the harder it will be to get the ULF we may want. (Unless we can do a true house curve with something such as a miniDSP--boosting the low bass at the expense of the mid-bass. The LFA isn't really a trade-off between low-bass and mid-bass, although it can certainly also help in that regard.)

This is why I have personally leaned toward subwoofers which emphasize low-bass frequencies more than mid-bass frequencies. But, I check all of the boxes for that interest. I have a large room; I am on concrete (which doesn't provide much tactile ULF); I use 80Hz or lower crossovers; and my room actually enhances mid-bass frequencies. I can see someone in a small room, with a lot of room gain and higher crossovers, preferring the exact opposite of what I want. That person might do much better with a subwoofer which deliberately emphasizes mid-bass frequencies more than low-bass ones. Some ported subs do that, and that is also why sealed subs can be so effective in small rooms.

I do think it is one of those YMMV questions.

Regards,
Mike

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
mthomas47 is offline  
post #8455 of 13412 Old 05-31-2018, 04:19 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,675
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1012 Post(s)
Liked: 1261
My reasoning is this: If the control is boosting the output down low, its just relative to the other frequencies in the general frequency response if you were to run a sweep. The maximum output down at say 10Hz will still be achieved with a middle setting, will just take more input to get there. The 4000ulf was tested with a setting of minimum, there was an 8db difference at 10Hz between min and max response. But if it was tested at max, the results at 10Hz would be the same

"The 4000-ULF was run with the LF adjust at minimum for the rest of the measurements because this is closer to the native response with the least amount of boosting to the low frequencies."

https://data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=135&mset=151
Pradeep2 is offline  
post #8456 of 13412 Old 05-31-2018, 04:20 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
imureh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 4,564
Mentioned: 215 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2857 Post(s)
Liked: 3583
Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
I can see someone in a small room, with a lot of room gain and higher crossovers, preferring the exact opposite of what I want. That person might do much better with a subwoofer which deliberately emphasizes mid-bass frequencies more than low-bass ones.

Regards,
Mike

Are you referring to me Mike?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
mthomas47 likes this.

Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD
imureh is online now  
post #8457 of 13412 Old 05-31-2018, 04:25 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
cannga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Palos Verdes - Lakers Land
Posts: 3,406
Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1900 Post(s)
Liked: 1845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pradeep2 View Post
My reasoning is this: If the control is boosting the output down low, its just relative to the other frequencies in the general frequency response if you were to run a sweep. The maximum output down at say 10Hz will still be achieved with a middle setting, will just take more input to get there. The 4000ulf was tested with a setting of minimum, there was an 8db difference at 10Hz between min and max response. But if it was tested at max, the results at 10Hz would be the same

"The 4000-ULF was run with the LF adjust at minimum for the rest of the measurements because this is closer to the native response with the least amount of boosting to the low frequencies."

https://data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=135&mset=151

Ah yes. Such a simple concept wondering why I didn't think of it.
Thank you.
Pradeep2 likes this.

Regards, Can
My System & Theta Casablanca Mini-Review (CB IVa setup help HERE) Uncontrolled passion for music, and sound.
Interesting Audio Diagrams :-) & High-End Speaker Reviews
JTR Subwoofer Thread I don't always listen to subwoofers, but when I do, it's JTR :-).

Last edited by cannga; 05-31-2018 at 04:30 PM.
cannga is offline  
post #8458 of 13412 Old 05-31-2018, 04:34 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Marc Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Inland Empire, CA
Posts: 13,518
Mentioned: 240 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5472 Post(s)
Liked: 4972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pradeep2 View Post
Yeah looks like just the port/tuning change. How does the edit old Cap 2400 compare to the 2400ULF? Im guessing a little less up high to deliver deeper extension to 10Hz?
I have performed 2m GP measurements for the 2400 14Hz tune. They were done while I was still learning Clio so I need to verify them (they may be 3dB low based on how I calibrated the mic). I will record measurements with a port plugged as well.

Due to the HPF for the 14Hz tune the gains down to 10Hz will not be as great by just plugging the port. One would be sacrificing a few dB around 14-16Hz to gain a few dB down closer to 10-12Hz. My parents' 50th anniversary is Sunday at our house. I may be able to measure before Sunday, but next week is more likely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pradeep2 View Post
This may entail just a simple reprogram of the amp by Jeff to drop the high pass filter down to 10Hz.
That could be a possibility. I expect Jeff to address this soon (but maybe not tomorrow).
Quote:
What would be really crazy would be if he could repurpose the room size control (which would be set at max extension or customer preference) to allow selectable high pass, 10 Hz at low and 14 Hz at high, then just need the one port plug...
I know that Jeff protects users from themselves. You are able to run JTR subs full bore [even with EDM music] without fear of damage. I doubt he would want to risk any accidental damage by the consumer.

I don't know what Jeff will say. I suspect that if a user chose to switch to full single port/10Hz mode (DSP reflashed) there would be no switching back & forth.
Pradeep2 likes this.
Marc Alexander is offline  
post #8459 of 13412 Old 05-31-2018, 04:40 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
imureh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 4,564
Mentioned: 215 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2857 Post(s)
Liked: 3583
Official JTR Speakers Subwoofer Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by cannga View Post
I feel very confident to designate these subwoofers the title "recommended, without reservation", and I don't bestow these titles

Certainly a top notch achievement. But I would include the FV25HP in that league as well.




Edit: testing temp was 77 degree

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
mthomas47 and Pradeep2 like this.

Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD

Last edited by imureh; 05-31-2018 at 05:11 PM.
imureh is online now  
post #8460 of 13412 Old 05-31-2018, 04:58 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,675
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1012 Post(s)
Liked: 1261
Quote:
Originally Posted by schwaggs View Post
1-4db less output above 20Hz with 1000W more power is very surprising to me...
Totally acceptable tradeoff IMO when you look at the 10db advantage at 12.5 Hz

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	SmartSelectImage_2018-05-31-19-54-04.png
Views:	134
Size:	84.0 KB
ID:	2410122  
chucky7 and mthomas47 like this.
Pradeep2 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off