Official JTR Speakers Subwoofer Thread - Page 302 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #9031 of 12698 Old 06-28-2018, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by zeus33 View Post
What does one of those go for ba? I didn't see it on their site.
Danley only sells through regional distributors so you'd have to get a pricing list from one of them. Last I checked, the passive unit retailed for just over $10,000

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Originally Posted by cannga View Post
1. You can't jump ship in the middle of a heated debate.
2. OTOH if you are denouncing max sustained output, it's ok.

Kidding aside, please explain.

1. Does not any subwoofer have high pass, low pass filter, and limiter to ensure it stays in its safe operating range?
2. What and how do you define as the native response of the subwoofer?
1) No, not all of them necessarily, assuming you are only referring to commercially offered/ID subs. I know for a time that DSS didn've any type of highpass or limiter on their setups, but now there is a VERY soft limiter to prevent thermal damage. I don't believe Seaton has any type of HP on his f18's either, but I could be wrong. The cap s2 I am unsure of, but I do know it has some form of limiter.

2) As Mthomas already explained, native response of the sub would be the frequency response of the subwoofer under its normal operating range, devoid of compression and/or high THD. This is what you should be hearing from the subwoofer before any room situations arise. Take my Skhorn for example...It's native response is a sloping line starting in at 100hz and slowly decreasing all the way down to 20hz where it falls off even worse, at the knee of the tuning. This is not a good starting point for HT and the native response needs to be adjusted before I even begin to mess with any type of room situations. Due to the massive amount of headroom this cab affords me, I simply apply a low shelf to bring the native response up to flat, like you see from the Cap4000.
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post #9032 of 12698 Old 06-28-2018, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by schwaggs View Post
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/61-ar...l#post53566801

I just noticed that the caption on the 1400 picture in GTG from last year says the 1400 has a foam surround. Is that a typo? Doesn't it have a rubber surround?
The 33mm X-max drivers used on 1400/2400ULF/4000ULF/S1/S2 have foam surround:

On my 4000ULF



On my 1400



Rubber surround on FV18



Rubber surround on Seaton F18+


Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #9033 of 12698 Old 06-28-2018, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by GeoJustGeo View Post
I've tried SVS, PSA, and XTZ. But lately I've been curious about JTR. I've only been in this thread twice so Idk much about JTR. I've been thinking about the Cap 2400 and Cap 4000. I'm nowhere near ready to make a purchase but I am interested. Is anyone in the San Diego or Phoenix area that would be willing to demo them?
Well, San Diego is only 2 hours away from Rancho Cucamonga...

Trust me, it's well worth your time.
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Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
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post #9034 of 12698 Old 06-28-2018, 12:25 PM
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I received my Captivator 1400 today. It seems there is barely any excursion from the driver compared to my 2016 1400. I have the gain at the back of the sub at max, LF at max AVR turned up, and I can barely see the cone moving, but with the same settings my 2016 Cap has no issues and is putting out ample amount of bass. Has the gain sensitivity on the newer models been reduced?

Television: Panasonic TC-P65VT60
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Speakers: Energy RC-70's, RC-LCR, RC-10 (4), JTR Captivator 1400 (2), Rythmik FV15HP (2)
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post #9035 of 12698 Old 06-28-2018, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by ah_1014 View Post
I received my Captivator 1400 today. It seems there is barely any excursion from the driver compared to my 2016 1400. I have the gain at the back of the sub at max, LF at max AVR turned up, and I can barely see the cone moving, but with the same settings my 2016 Cap has no issues and is putting out ample amount of bass. Has the gain sensitivity on the newer models been reduced?
Looks like something is wrong in the setup/config somewhere. Cause there is no way any sub on max gain with normal avr volume and not see cones moving unless something was off.

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post #9036 of 12698 Old 06-28-2018, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by ereed View Post
Looks like something is wrong in the setup/config somewhere. Cause there is no way any sub on max gain with normal avr volume and not see cones moving unless something was off.
I would love to believe that but I doubt it. I have two Rythmik FV15HP and my 2016 Captivator 1400 and they all are working as they normally do, but this new Captivator just does not seem like it wants to put out any bass.


I just moved my 2016 Captivator to where the 2018 Captivator is placed and guess what? OUTPUT!!!! Something I'm not getting from the 2018 version.


Does anyone here have both version and can chime or is something up with the amp?

Television: Panasonic TC-P65VT60
Receiver: Yamaha RX-A2010
Speakers: Energy RC-70's, RC-LCR, RC-10 (4), JTR Captivator 1400 (2), Rythmik FV15HP (2)

Last edited by ah_1014; 06-28-2018 at 01:21 PM.
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post #9037 of 12698 Old 06-28-2018, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by ah_1014 View Post
I would love to believe that but I doubt it. I have two Rythmik FV15HP and my 2016 Captivator 1400 and they all are working as they normally do, but this new Captivator just does not seem like it wants to put out any bass.

I just moved my 2016 Captivator to where the 2018 Captivator is placed and guess what? OUTPUT!!!! Something I'm not getting from the 2018 version.

Does anyone here have both version and can chime or is something up with the amp?
Does the 2018 Cap 1400 not have any output at all (as in silent) or is it just weaker in output compare to the 2016 one?

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #9038 of 12698 Old 06-28-2018, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Does the 2018 Cap 1400 not have any output at all (as in silent) or is it just weaker in output compare to the 2016 one?
It is weaker, I just did some quick measurements and it is roughly 10db weaker. That is a whole lot of gain loss.

Television: Panasonic TC-P65VT60
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Speakers: Energy RC-70's, RC-LCR, RC-10 (4), JTR Captivator 1400 (2), Rythmik FV15HP (2)
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post #9039 of 12698 Old 06-28-2018, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by ah_1014 View Post
It is weaker, I just did some quick measurements and it is roughly 10db weaker. That is a whole lot of gain loss.
I am not so sure when Jeff changed the LF Adjust settings.

On my 2015 Cap 1400, with the LF Adjust at 12 o'clock, it is equivalent with the 2018 Cap 1400 LF Adjust at max. With the LF Adjust at max, it adds 6dB to the 2015 Cap 1400 bottom end.

Jeff increase the LF Adjust range to 18dB (from 12dB) starting in 2018. However, With both the LF Adjust at max, the 2017 and 2018 Cap 1400 should have the same FR outdoors.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #9040 of 12698 Old 06-28-2018, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
I am not so sure when Jeff changed the LF Adjust settings.

On my 2015 Cap 1400, with the LF Adjust at 12 o'clock, it is equivalent with the 2018 Cap 1400 LF Adjust at max. With the LF Adjust at max, it adds 6dB to the 2015 Cap 1400 bottom end.

Jeff increase the LF Adjust range to 18dB (from 12dB) starting in 2018. However, With both the LF Adjust at max, the 2017 and 2018 Cap 1400 should have the same FR outdoors.

But the decrease output is across the whole frequency band, not just in the ULF//


I think Jeff may have calibrated the amp incorrectly which caused the decrease gain.


In the mean time until I can get a hold of him. I will decrease all my subs by 10db and then add 10db in the AVR to compensate. At least the subs works and it is still usable, I will just need to stick with this work around temporarily.

Television: Panasonic TC-P65VT60
Receiver: Yamaha RX-A2010
Speakers: Energy RC-70's, RC-LCR, RC-10 (4), JTR Captivator 1400 (2), Rythmik FV15HP (2)
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post #9041 of 12698 Old 06-28-2018, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by ah_1014 View Post
But the decrease output is across the whole frequency band, not just in the ULF//

I think Jeff may have calibrated the amp incorrectly which caused the decrease gain.

In the mean time until I can get a hold of him. I will decrease all my subs by 10db and then add 10db in the AVR to compensate. At least the subs works and it is still usable, I will just need to stick with this work around temporarily.

Hi,

You sound pretty experienced, so I'm sure that you know what you are doing, but just in case. I am a little bit skeptical that Jeff would have calibrated the sub wrong. I think it is more likely to be an amplifier issue. 10db down in output is a nice symmetrical sounding number, but that may be just a coincidental symmetry. In any event, if the subwoofer is already at max gain, and 10db down in volume with the cone barely moving, I don't know that it can contribute anything at all to your system.

When you say that you will add 10db in the AVR, what do you mean? Do you mean that you will increase the trims by 10db, after turning down the sub gains? If you do that, you may encounter clipping, and it is very possible that your subs won't be able to produce the same max output that they normally would, with the gain settings so low.

I hate to say it, particularly since it can be difficult to contact Jeff, but I would seriously consider just leaving the malfunctioning Cap 1400 out of the system until Jeff can help you with some trouble-shooting, and potentially with a new amp.

Regards,
Mike

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
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post #9042 of 12698 Old 06-28-2018, 02:55 PM
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Mood setting

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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
The horn’s in room extension will be no greater than a Ported extending deeper than its tune in room, I have tried all the alignements. Whatever your room adds it adds to everything. Btw saying the OS LFU can play higher with higher distortion is misleading because it is all distortion. Yes it will be lowered but not nearly as much as you think. It is a single 18 under 20hz which is a good thing but saying it will magically caught up to two similar ported 18s will not happen.
I am with @MKtheater all the way on the necessity of <16hz reference spl.

The biggest problem I see with trying to get reference spl below 20hz from the Orbit Shifter ulf is placement in a non-dedicated theater room. Sure you can get increased horn/room coupling if it is placed ideally. But how many people can place their subs in their rooms ideally? I have seen very few. And that is after reading thousands of posts on these forums. You have to deal with WAF, seating, personal aesthetics, and other physical constraints. I picked the JTR 4000 ulf over the Orbit Shifter ulf because of it's ulf performance metrics and easier placement. For me personally, size was not an issue, but placement for maxim spl and particle velocity certainly was.

I have enjoyed great ulf (below 16hz) for the past 14 years and I could never give it up. I purchased the JTR 4000 last year to increase headroom above and below 20hz.
And yes, I have tried filtering out <16hz back to back with a 10hz filter and experienced a large difference in particle velocity and mood setting.
For me, the higher frequency chest slam effect is like a horror film's obviously contrived scare scenes. Sure it is great fun, but it is obvious "in your face" excitement. Where as below 16hz puts more of an emotional dark mood atmosphere in the room. That extra deep emotional layer adds a lot of realism to the movie experience. When a car door is slammed shut hard in a movie scene I want to feel the chest slam and the ear pressure like I do in real life. I want to experience the film director's mood setting for each scene as he intended. And isn't that what all of us are after, greater realism when watching great movies?
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post #9043 of 12698 Old 06-28-2018, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Danley only sells through regional distributors so you'd have to get a pricing list from one of them. Last I checked, the passive unit retailed for just over $10,000



1) No, not all of them necessarily, assuming you are only referring to commercially offered/ID subs. I know for a time that DSS didn've any type of highpass or limiter on their setups, but now there is a VERY soft limiter to prevent thermal damage. I don't believe Seaton has any type of HP on his f18's either, but I could be wrong. The cap s2 I am unsure of, but I do know it has some form of limiter.
...
I dont think theres a highpass on the Seaton f18, but the sp amps can be configured to limit voltage to avoid meltdowns. Would be a shame to limit the ulf with a high pass filter with a capable 18" sealed design.

I did get a quote for a dts 20 from Danley through their local distributor last year and iirc it was 3 thousand something and about $350 for shipping.
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post #9044 of 12698 Old 06-28-2018, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
The Orbit Shifter is perhaps the only commercial horn sub available. The 4000ULF is, well, the first 10Hz tuned ported sub.
You have forgotten the Funk Audio 15.h folded horn and the Seaton Terraform D18 XL (10.5Hz tuned I believe, only 8 were built)!
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post #9045 of 12698 Old 06-28-2018, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
You have forgotten the Funk Audio 15.h folded horn and the Seaton Terraform D18 XL (10.5Hz tuned I believe, only 8 were built)!
Will you people stop nit-picking on everything I post...

You were present when Jeff talked about filling niches...

Of course it does not mean the other companies can't choose to fill the same niches.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

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post #9046 of 12698 Old 06-28-2018, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
You have forgotten the Funk Audio 15.h folded horn and the Seaton Terraform D18 XL (10.5Hz tuned I believe, only 8 were built)!
Found this thread on the Terraform D18 XL. Looks like the grandfather of the 4000 ULF.


https://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/p...woofer-7043903

Last edited by schwaggs; 06-28-2018 at 08:03 PM.
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post #9047 of 12698 Old 06-28-2018, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by azgypsyman3 View Post
I am with @MKtheater all the way on the necessity of <16hz reference spl.

The biggest problem I see with trying to get reference spl below 20hz from the Orbit Shifter ulf is placement in a non-dedicated theater room. Sure you can get increased horn/room coupling if it is placed ideally. But how many people can place their subs in their rooms ideally? I have seen very few. And that is after reading thousands of posts on these forums. You have to deal with WAF, seating, personal aesthetics, and other physical constraints. I picked the JTR 4000 ulf over the Orbit Shifter ulf because of it's ulf performance metrics and easier placement. For me personally, size was not an issue, but placement for maxim spl and particle velocity certainly was.

I have enjoyed great ulf (below 16hz) for the past 14 years and I could never give it up. I purchased the JTR 4000 last year to increase headroom above and below 20hz.
And yes, I have tried filtering out <16hz back to back with a 10hz filter and experienced a large difference in particle velocity and mood setting.
For me, the higher frequency chest slam effect is like a horror film's obviously contrived scare scenes. Sure it is great fun, but it is obvious "in your face" excitement. Where as below 16hz puts more of an emotional dark mood atmosphere in the room. That extra deep emotional layer adds a lot of realism to the movie experience. When a car door is slammed shut hard in a movie scene I want to feel the chest slam and the ear pressure like I do in real life. I want to experience the film director's mood setting for each scene as he intended. And isn't that what all of us are after, greater realism when watching great movies?
When you filter are you using a 48 db slope? For me I can tell a difference until I get to around 13 hz (depending on the content, all of the content has a lot of LFE obviously when testing this). With a less steep slope I can tell the difference all the way to 10hz.
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post #9048 of 12698 Old 06-28-2018, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Well, San Diego is only 2 hours away from Rancho Cucamonga...

Trust me, it's well worth your time.
If I was in SD yeah, but I'm already 2 hours away from SD, in AZ, so it'd be 4 hours lol. Thanks for the offer tho!
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post #9049 of 12698 Old 06-29-2018, 12:36 AM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
When you filter are you using a 48 db slope? For me I can tell a difference until I get to around 13 hz (depending on the content, all of the content has a lot of LFE obviously when testing this). With a less steep slope I can tell the difference all the way to 10hz.
@carp
I tried various slopes from 12-48db. It is easy to do with my SMS-1 inline with any subwoofer I have. I used the XLR connection for the Cap 4000. It is easy to try different slopes and phase adjustments as I have a gui with remote control to play with from my seat.
Maybe I am more sensitive to ulf than others because I have been used to it being there for the past 14 years. That is why I can't understand people who don't think there is much value in <16hz content. When it is taken away I truly miss it like a very old faithful dog that is now gone.
Having tons of headroom allows me to still keep reference level chest slam by flattening my 40-100 range and not having to apply boost from 40hz down. So even though a film might initially have weak <16hz content, it has much better ulf after passing through my system. That is why I would always recommend purchasing more subwoofer than you need. If audio engineers aren't doing there job in the ulf department then I can make up for the discrepancy.
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post #9050 of 12698 Old 06-29-2018, 12:48 AM
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Demo 4000 ulf

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Originally Posted by GeoJustGeo View Post
If I was in SD yeah, but I'm already 2 hours away from SD, in AZ, so it'd be 4 hours lol. Thanks for the offer tho!
I have a Cap 4000 in Florence, AZ for you to demo but it would have to be in the fall as I am staying in the mountains for the summer.
By the way, what is the Geo in your signature?
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post #9051 of 12698 Old 06-29-2018, 05:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azgypsyman3 View Post
I am with @MKtheater all the way on the necessity of <16hz reference spl.

...Where as below 16hz puts more of an emotional dark mood atmosphere in the room. That extra deep emotional layer adds a lot of realism to the movie experience. When a car door is slammed shut hard in a movie scene I want to feel the chest slam and the ear pressure like I do in real life. I want to experience the film director's mood setting for each scene as he intended. And isn't that what all of us are after, greater realism when watching great movies?
I started with a single 2400 in my 3800cf room about a year ago since I couldn't physically place a 4000 in my space. I've been giving a second 2400 some thought. Not that my room needs another but because two will fit in my space! Mind you, my room has never sounded better and most sane people think I am insane for having one sub the size of the 2400. I just keep thinking about what 2 would sound like.


I am with you both. ULF adds an ambiance to some scenes and a physical element to others. Having system capable of reproducing solid bass down to ULF makes some mediocre movies GREAT.
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post #9052 of 12698 Old 06-29-2018, 07:52 AM
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That is exactly it, Having ULF for so long once I try another system tuned to 16hz and above I a start missing all the weight and pressure. It also adds a deeper tone. Even sealed subs that rolloff a little sooner than others will lack that deep robust tone. Trust me, I can not pin point when a single digit moment happens unless my screen starts to wave, but when 10hz and under is filtered I can tell something is off. Of course one has to experience it first and get used to the effects. I have owned many ported subs tuned to 16hz and horn subs that reached 15hz in room. They all seem hollow in comparison. The DTS-10s were awesome and give you that feeling. Again, I don't like ULF because it shakes me, it does not, I like the weight and pressure it provides. All rooms can get this, you just need many 4000-ULFs to do it.

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post #9053 of 12698 Old 06-29-2018, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
You have forgotten the Funk Audio 15.h folded horn and the Seaton Terraform D18 XL (10.5Hz tuned I believe, only 8 were built)!
And IIRC one user on here has 4 of the 8 in the same room!!!

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Originally Posted by schwaggs View Post
I started with a single 2400 in my 3800cf room about a year ago since I couldn't physically place a 4000 in my space. I've been giving a second 2400 some thought. Not that my room needs another but because two will fit in my space! Mind you, my room has never sounded better and most sane people think I am insane for having one sub the size of the 2400. I just keep thinking about what 2 would sound like.


I am with you both. ULF adds an ambiance to some scenes and a physical element to others. Having system capable of reproducing solid bass down to ULF makes some mediocre movies GREAT.
Two subs are always better than one.... Not to poke the bear by any means but the added benefit of additional output and headroom by adding another sub is only secondary to the ability to smooth more room modes by having multiple positions!

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post #9054 of 12698 Old 06-29-2018, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by azgypsyman3 View Post
@carp
I tried various slopes from 12-48db. It is easy to do with my SMS-1 inline with any subwoofer I have. I used the XLR connection for the Cap 4000. It is easy to try different slopes and phase adjustments as I have a gui with remote control to play with from my seat.
Maybe I am more sensitive to ulf than others because I have been used to it being there for the past 14 years. That is why I can't understand people who don't think there is much value in <16hz content. When it is taken away I truly miss it like a very old faithful dog that is now gone.
Having tons of headroom allows me to still keep reference level chest slam by flattening my 40-100 range and not having to apply boost from 40hz down. So even though a film might initially have weak <16hz content, it has much better ulf after passing through my system. That is why I would always recommend purchasing more subwoofer than you need. If audio engineers aren't doing there job in the ulf department then I can make up for the discrepancy.


It's been a long time since I did any testing with it, but when I did it I would filter out everything EXCEPT for the low stuff. It looks like you did the opposite, you would filter out only the low stuff and do an A/B comparison.

It's interesting when I put on a low pass filter 48 db slope filter at 13 or 14 hz on a strong low content movie. The house groans really bad, the feel in the kitchen/dining room above my HT is really cool, but I hear nothing in the HT room other than the house making bad noises and - more importantly because I shouldn't be hearing anything below 13/14hz anyway - I feel nothing at the seats. If I could get the feel from the rooms above me that would be awesome but it just doesn't happen.

I need to try what you and MK have done, putting on a HPF instead of a LPF in the low teens. I haven't done much of that. It could be that with all the frequencies playing above 13-14hz I will be able to tell.

Like you there is no output/headroom issue, I have 9 sealed 18's with one of them inches from my back in my MLP seat.

If you are curious, try it the way I have and see what you experience when you filter out everything above 13/14 hz.

Hey @beastaudio when you have experimented with filtering the low stuff in your room did you filter out the lows, everything above the lows, or some of both?
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post #9055 of 12698 Old 06-29-2018, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by azgypsyman3 View Post
I have a Cap 4000 in Florence, AZ for you to demo but it would have to be in the fall as I am staying in the mountains for the summer.
By the way, what is the Geo in your signature?
Sounds good, thanks. I don't get your question tho, I don't have anything in my signature.
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post #9056 of 12698 Old 06-29-2018, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
It's been a long time since I did any testing with it, but when I did it I would filter out everything EXCEPT for the low stuff. It looks like you did the opposite, you would filter out only the low stuff and do an A/B comparison.

It's interesting when I put on a low pass filter 48 db slope filter at 13 or 14 hz on a strong low content movie. The house groans really bad, the feel in the kitchen/dining room above my HT is really cool, but I hear nothing in the HT room other than the house making bad noises and - more importantly because I shouldn't be hearing anything below 13/14hz anyway - I feel nothing at the seats. If I could get the feel from the rooms above me that would be awesome but it just doesn't happen.

I need to try what you and MK have done, putting on a HPF instead of a LPF in the low teens. I haven't done much of that. It could be that with all the frequencies playing above 13-14hz I will be able to tell.

Like you there is no output/headroom issue, I have 9 sealed 18's with one of them inches from my back in my MLP seat.

If you are curious, try it the way I have and see what you experience when you filter out everything above 13/14 hz.

Hey @beastaudio when you have experimented with filtering the low stuff in your room did you filter out the lows, everything above the lows, or some of both?
I think you were there at Austin's when we did that even with his 16-18's weren't you? It's very enlightening. I've done a little bit of both in my room, alongside running test tones to see where the juice is no longer worth the squeeze. That number in my room is around 11-12hz. By 13hz I get enough that I feel is worth it, and at 15hz I find it almost essential to good reproduction. Even though Bosso's aco pacific mic measured accurately that I had content to 5hz, it simply just doesn't translate to anything more than the walls flexing and the drop ceiling flopping around violently. I'd just assume avoid both of those things if at all possible. That being said, I keep the sealed 18's in the system only for the reason to maintain content from 20hz and down....Which should tell you a lot.

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post #9057 of 12698 Old 06-29-2018, 12:13 PM
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Carp, I wish I did things that simple, I usually tear things down and change everything and then start watching demos again. I never believed in testing just 10hz and below with nothing else as that is not natural. Just like testing 12khz and above without anything. They both seem annoying and meaningless without the rest. I always tell people the 12khz and above tones barely add anything yet how many systems do you see with a LPF at 12khz.

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post #9058 of 12698 Old 06-29-2018, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
Carp, I wish I did things that simple, I usually tear things down and change everything and then start watching demos again. I never believed in testing just 10hz and below with nothing else as that is not natural. Just like testing 12khz and above without anything. They both seem annoying and meaningless without the rest. I always tell people the 12khz and above tones barely add anything yet how many systems do you see with a LPF at 12khz.
Not quite the same thing tho. Below 20hz you have multiple octaves to cover, above 12khz, just a fraction of an octave.

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post #9059 of 12698 Old 06-29-2018, 12:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Very interesting discussion here lately by “seasoned veterans.”

Great for the thread.
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post #9060 of 12698 Old 06-29-2018, 01:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ah_1014 View Post
But the decrease output is across the whole frequency band, not just in the ULF//


I think Jeff may have calibrated the amp incorrectly which caused the decrease gain.


In the mean time until I can get a hold of him. I will decrease all my subs by 10db and then add 10db in the AVR to compensate. At least the subs works and it is still usable, I will just need to stick with this work around temporarily.
Apologize if I am asking the obvious or misunderstand but where/what level are the gain knobs of your old 1400 and new 1400?

Can’t you make new equal old by adjusting gain/level knob accordingly?
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