Official JTR Speakers Subwoofer Thread - Page 309 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #9241 of 13427 Old 07-24-2018, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by psychdoctor View Post
How do you like the Cap 2400? Any second thoughts on not getting the Cap 4000ULF?
None whatsoever. My decision was made easy by the fact that I cannot fit a 4000 ULF in my room. Or rather, I couldn't fit it without it looking ludicrous. The 2400 blends in so nicely with my ~2900 cf room and to be honest, it has enough "shock and awe" on its own! I can watch almost any scene at much too loud volumes already. It provides tactile response you can feel in your seat and my theater is on concrete. The only time I hear it stressing it is when demoing scenes to see what it can do. There is NO WAY I would watch movies or listen to music at those volumes. Also, my main speakers are running out of gas at or before the 2400 so to play much louder for sustained periods will require a large upgrade.



The only reason I would ever consider a second 2400 is to even out the response. One 2400 has more than enough power for "normal" watching/listening in my room.

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post #9242 of 13427 Old 07-24-2018, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by schwaggs View Post
Guys, I re-ran my room calibration after swapping my sub cables for better ones plus it's been almost a year since calibrating the last time. I felt like things were getting boomy (breaking in??? Impact of the cable change? who knows).


Anyway, have a look at the results attached. The green line is just the LFE channel, the red is both my fronts (set small) and the sub.


What is puzzling me is the dip from 35 to 60 hz on the green line (both fronts and LFE). There is a much smaller dip on the LFE only line but when combined, the dip is exaggerated. My crossover is set to 80hz, not sure what the slope should look like from my LR. Is the signal from the LR that strong at 60 to cause this type of interference?


I'm pretty happy with the left side of the graph
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Originally Posted by schwaggs View Post
I adjusted the distance the last time and smoothed out the response quite a bit. I'll have another look at that.


I unplugged the power to my tower speaker amps, basically making them small monitors. That reduced the trench by 6 db (see attached).


I guess I'm surprised that the room correction algoritm didn't account for this.



Good news is I watched a couple movies and listened to some music and I like it MUCH better without my main subs running. The 2400 gives me all the bass I need so it may be time to move on from my tower speakers...
Best practice is to absolutely avoid running sweeps with your left and right at the same time. Run the sweeps separately for left and right and overlay each to your sub only measurement. You should be able to have gains across the entire crossover region which looks as if some distance adjustments may still need to be tweaked out.

When talking about your tower "subs" do you mean the bottom end of your towers is actually being run off the LFE channel or, it's just the bottom end woofers of full range mains?

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post #9243 of 13427 Old 07-24-2018, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Best practice is to absolutely avoid running sweeps with your left and right at the same time. Run the sweeps separately for left and right and overlay each to your sub only measurement. You should be able to have gains across the entire crossover region which looks as if some distance adjustments may still need to be tweaked out.

When talking about your tower "subs" do you mean the bottom end of your towers is actually being run off the LFE channel or, it's just the bottom end woofers of full range mains?

Polk RT 2000i from the Clinton Administration era (1990's. )


Tweeter
6.5" mid/mid-bass driver powered by AVR
Dual 8" internally powered sub, crossed over at 100hz


Signal arrives at these powered subs via the LR speaker wires so they are acting like large, full-range speakers.


I guess the other thing I could do is drive the subs in the tower speakers from the LFE signal using outputs from the 2X4 HD with their own EQ. Seems like a much more complex solution than just disconnecting the tower subs.


Drawback of disconnecting the internal subs or running them with LFE signal is I do end up with the potential for a bit of a gap between 80 (AVR xover) and 100 (speaker xover). Not sure how big of an impact that makes due to the slope of the crossovers.


Another option is to upgrade my LR to something made within the last 20 years!

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post #9244 of 13427 Old 07-24-2018, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by schwaggs View Post
Polk RT 2000i from the Clinton Administration era (1990's. )


Tweeter
6.5" mid/mid-bass driver powered by AVR
Dual 8" internally powered sub, crossed over at 100hz


Signal arrives at these powered subs via the LR speaker wires so they are acting like large, full-range speakers.


I guess the other thing I could do is drive the subs in the tower speakers from the LFE signal using outputs from the 2X4 HD with their own EQ. Seems like a much more complex solution than just disconnecting the tower subs.


Drawback of disconnecting the internal subs or running them with LFE signal is I do end up with the potential for a bit of a gap between 80 (AVR xover) and 100 (speaker xover). Not sure how big of an impact that makes due to the slope of the crossovers.


Another option is to upgrade my LR to something made within the last 20 years!
This makes for an even more troubling issue honestly. If the tower subs are still crossed at 80hz as you have them set and adhere to the rules of that xo point, I wouldn't disconnect them. Your cancellation anomaly shouldn't be there, especially with room EQ. It's either a product of running the L and R speakers at the same time during your sweep, or it's a distance/XO point issue. 80hz is always suggested only as a starting point, but the room will honestly dictate if that needs moved above, or below that point.
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post #9245 of 13427 Old 07-24-2018, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by schwaggs View Post
I adjusted the distance the last time and smoothed out the response quite a bit. I'll have another look at that.


I unplugged the power to my tower speaker amps, basically making them small monitors. That reduced the trench by 6 db (see attached).


I guess I'm surprised that the room correction algoritm didn't account for this.



Good news is I watched a couple movies and listened to some music and I like it MUCH better without my main subs running. The 2400 gives me all the bass I need so it may be time to move on from my tower speakers...
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Originally Posted by schwaggs View Post
Polk RT 2000i from the Clinton Administration era (1990's. )


Tweeter
6.5" mid/mid-bass driver powered by AVR
Dual 8" internally powered sub, crossed over at 100hz


Signal arrives at these powered subs via the LR speaker wires so they are acting like large, full-range speakers.


I guess the other thing I could do is drive the subs in the tower speakers from the LFE signal using outputs from the 2X4 HD with their own EQ. Seems like a much more complex solution than just disconnecting the tower subs.


Drawback of disconnecting the internal subs or running them with LFE signal is I do end up with the potential for a bit of a gap between 80 (AVR xover) and 100 (speaker xover). Not sure how big of an impact that makes due to the slope of the crossovers.


Another option is to upgrade my LR to something made within the last 20 years!
My rear speakers are Polk RT2000p (I also purchased them in the 1990s), which I'm assuming is very similar to your RT2000i. Since you stated that unplugging the towers reduced the trench, did you also try adjusting the towers' volume knobs to a lower setting to see if this helps reduce the trench? Don't know if this would help, but it's worth a try.

Jack
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post #9246 of 13427 Old 07-24-2018, 02:56 PM
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So its time to upgarde my system. I went from Ascend Acoustics Sierra speakers and a Rythmik F12 sub to Klipsch RP160s, 450c, 250s and a Rythmik FV15HP. I have a Denon x1300w now and eventually want to upgrade but its not needed right now.

Anyway, this summer I will be ordering a couple PSA 210t's and a 210c for my LCR and I had thought about going dual Rythmik FV15HP. Originally i had debated between the FV15HP and the Cap1400 and went with the Rythmik. It has been a Fantastic sub but I want more haha. My F12 wasnt enough for my room, FV15 has been great but I want better SPL and better FR. I was looking between the 2400ULF and the 4000ULF. Space isnt an issue because I am on the first floor of a duplex (buddy lives upstairs so no issues with sound since he's usually at my place watching movies anyway). Anywho, I know duals is always better than a single sub. However, if i go with JTR I will be starting with a single sub and upgrading for a second one down the road. My current room is roughly 2000sq open concept. This is a temporary place and eventually I will be buying a house and building a dedicated space for a theater which will never been any bigger than 3500sq. Will the 4000ULF be too big for this spot? I listen at roughly -15 to -10 reference most of the time with the sub tuned about 9db hot. Every so often i like to turn the sound near reference to see if the house will crumble but hasnt happened yet haha.

Like I said, whatever I decide, i will eventually get duals since duals are always better than singles when tuned right.
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post #9247 of 13427 Old 07-24-2018, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Jack1949 View Post
My rear speakers are Polk RT2000p (I also purchased them in the 1990s), which I'm assuming is very similar to your RT2000i. Since you stated that unplugging the towers reduced the trench, did you also try adjusting the towers' volume knobs to a lower setting to see if this helps reduce the trench? Don't know if this would help, but it's worth a try.

Jack

Thanks Jack! The 2000i followed the 2000p. Not sure what the changes were but they look identical. They have been awesome speakers!



I tried various sub volumes above and below where I normally listen and the trench changed shape, starting and ending positions but never got better. Best for me was with it off.
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post #9248 of 13427 Old 07-24-2018, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Theriddler07sms View Post
So its time to upgarde my system. I went from Ascend Acoustics Sierra speakers and a Rythmik F12 sub to Klipsch RP160s, 450c, 250s and a Rythmik FV15HP. I have a Denon x1300w now and eventually want to upgrade but its not needed right now.

Anyway, this summer I will be ordering a couple PSA 210t's and a 210c for my LCR and I had thought about going dual Rythmik FV15HP. Originally i had debated between the FV15HP and the Cap1400 and went with the Rythmik. It has been a Fantastic sub but I want more haha. My F12 wasnt enough for my room, FV15 has been great but I want better SPL and better FR. I was looking between the 2400ULF and the 4000ULF. Space isnt an issue because I am on the first floor of a duplex (buddy lives upstairs so no issues with sound since he's usually at my place watching movies anyway). Anywho, I know duals is always better than a single sub. However, if i go with JTR I will be starting with a single sub and upgrading for a second one down the road. My current room is roughly 2000sq open concept. This is a temporary place and eventually I will be buying a house and building a dedicated space for a theater which will never been any bigger than 3500sq. Will the 4000ULF be too big for this spot? I listen at roughly -15 to -10 reference most of the time with the sub tuned about 9db hot. Every so often i like to turn the sound near reference to see if the house will crumble but hasnt happened yet haha.

Like I said, whatever I decide, i will eventually get duals since duals are always better than singles when tuned right.

Did you mean a 2000 *CUBIC* ft room?


IMHO *and I say this as someone who owns and loves PSA speakers* I would keep the Klipsch speakers (at least for now) and put the funds towards dual JTR 2400ULF's straight off the bat.
The 450C is a solid center speaker and will easily handle your usual listening MV for movies. Just end the subwoofer Upgraditis in 1 hit
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post #9249 of 13427 Old 07-24-2018, 04:10 PM
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Dual 2400’s, which are roughly equal to one 4K, would be stellar in that space! And really so would the 4K, but just keep in mind, the 4K is huge and if you get 2....OMG the firepower! I hope your future HT is not on the 3rd floor!

But since it’s not me having to move them.....go ahead and get 2x4k!

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post #9250 of 13427 Old 07-24-2018, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Theriddler07sms View Post
So its time to upgarde my system. I went from Ascend Acoustics Sierra speakers and a Rythmik F12 sub to Klipsch RP160s, 450c, 250s and a Rythmik FV15HP. I have a Denon x1300w now and eventually want to upgrade but its not needed right now.

Anyway, this summer I will be ordering a couple PSA 210t's and a 210c for my LCR and I had thought about going dual Rythmik FV15HP. Originally i had debated between the FV15HP and the Cap1400 and went with the Rythmik. It has been a Fantastic sub but I want more haha. My F12 wasnt enough for my room, FV15 has been great but I want better SPL and better FR. I was looking between the 2400ULF and the 4000ULF. Space isnt an issue because I am on the first floor of a duplex (buddy lives upstairs so no issues with sound since he's usually at my place watching movies anyway). Anywho, I know duals is always better than a single sub. However, if i go with JTR I will be starting with a single sub and upgrading for a second one down the road. My current room is roughly 2000sq open concept. This is a temporary place and eventually I will be buying a house and building a dedicated space for a theater which will never been any bigger than 3500sq. Will the 4000ULF be too big for this spot? I listen at roughly -15 to -10 reference most of the time with the sub tuned about 9db hot. Every so often i like to turn the sound near reference to see if the house will crumble but hasnt happened yet haha.

Like I said, whatever I decide, i will eventually get duals since duals are always better than singles when tuned right.
Your ID looks familiar... If I could have a nickel every time I recommend getting the biggest sub possible but the customer ended up getting something smaller...

Do you have the FR of your current system? It could already be pretty decent. Dual is not always better than one.

It looks like you are looking to get JUST ONE sub for now and another down the road (just like the last time when you got the FV15HP). If you get an end game sub like the 4000ULF, you don't replace it. You just add more if you need more bass.

If you 'settle for' (I know... first world problem) the 2400ULF, maybe you will be back a couple years later asking "should I get another 2400ULF or upgrade to a 4000ULF". The 4000ULF ( $3900 shipped ) has the same output as 2 2400ULFs ( $5700 shipped ) so the savings is significant.

You gotta ask yourself... What if the 4000ULF is all you ever need? Well, order one to find out...

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
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post #9251 of 13427 Old 07-24-2018, 07:01 PM
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if you have the space I would rather have 4 great subs vs 1 monster sub...now if dont have the space I would get the biggest sub you could fit.

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post #9252 of 13427 Old 07-24-2018, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Dual is not always better than one.
'settle for' (I know... first world problem) the 2400ULF
LOL, says the funny man with a CAP 4K and a 1400. Chucky7 does have a point though. The 4K is almost a bargain at that price. There's no bad choice here, just depends on how much you want.....notice I didn't say 'need'. Nobody here is likely to save you from the ledge.

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post #9253 of 13427 Old 07-24-2018, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Your ID looks familiar... If I could have a nickel every time I recommend getting the biggest sub possible but the customer ended up getting something smaller...

Do you have the FR of your current system? It could already be pretty decent. Dual is not always better than one.

It looks like you are looking to get JUST ONE sub for now and another down the road (just like the last time when you got the FV15HP). If you get an end game sub like the 4000ULF, you don't replace it. You just add more if you need more bass.

If you 'settle for' (I know... first world problem) the 2400ULF, maybe you will be back a couple years later asking "should I get another 2400ULF or upgrade to a 4000ULF". The 4000ULF ( $3900 shipped ) has the same output as 2 2400ULFs ( $5700 shipped ) so the savings is significant.

You gotta ask yourself... What if the 4000ULF is all you ever need? Well, order one to find out...
I've been in and out of the forums a few times going back and forth way too many times haha. I have a mic but havent done the REW yet. Still in my old place and havent moved into my new apt yet. I do a REW when i get to my new place with my FV15HP hooked up. Cant have it hooked up here because the guy upstairs is an *******. Better believe during daylight hours I watch many movies at like -5 reference hahaha. New place will be much better with my buddy upstairs.

last time i got the FV15HP I had planned on getting a second sub a lot sooner then I did. Too much **** going on at work hahaha.
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post #9254 of 13427 Old 07-24-2018, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by jamiebosco View Post

Did you mean a 2000 *CUBIC* ft room?


IMHO *and I say this as someone who owns and loves PSA speakers* I would keep the Klipsch speakers (at least for now) and put the funds towards dual JTR 2400ULF's straight off the bat.
The 450C is a solid center speaker and will easily handle your usual listening MV for movies. Just end the subwoofer Upgraditis in 1 hit
yes, i may have miscalculated hahha. my bad. it is closer to 2000-2500 cubic feet. you were correct.
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post #9255 of 13427 Old 07-25-2018, 09:30 AM
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Official JTR Speakers Subwoofer Thread

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Originally Posted by schwaggs View Post
cannot fit a 4000 ULF in my room. Or rather, I couldn't fit it without it looking ludicrous. The 2400 blends in so nicely with my ~2900 cf room

This is the point raised in favor of a 2400ULF especially given to it’s similar Cap 4000 tuning. It allows for more placement options which will be key in making any sub work and sound better. Monster sub with bad placement will still sound bad.

It’s not like the 2400 is not a monster itself.


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Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
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post #9256 of 13427 Old 07-25-2018, 11:56 AM
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I have my nearfield and farfield about same spl calibration. I guess I will try lowering down the nearfield...or increase the farfield 2 or 3db!

Also I have sub crossed at 100hz for all speakers and subs....if all 3 subs were connected via minidsp...can you still use mini dsp to try to lower the nearfield to 80hz or is that best using the xover on back of the nearfield sub itself?
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Personal preference for sure tho bud... I really liked getting slammed by the nearfield for a while but that wore off eventually. I wanted a more "Need it when it's needed" type approach which is how I settled on my settings atm. You may very well decide you like it how you have it now.
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I utilize nearfields to bolster midbass TR (tactile transducers for ULF). I even filter out 30Hz and below. I go by your method #1 .

Having more TR allows me to lower MV a bit which helps preserve hearing (especially my 5-year-old's).

2-3 dB deferential has been the magic number for me.

On the Speakerpower amps, engaging the x-over changes the DSP delay (so you'd need to time-align again). You should experiment with x-over points using your ear-meter and butt-meter. 100Hz is a good place to start for maximizing midbass.
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Yep personal preference for sure I think. I even ran my VNFs higher than FFs there for a long time and loved it because I was chasing the most slam possible and it would deliver like this. Now I’m slowly heading the other way a little bit I think lol. Not that I don’t want a lot of slam delivered from the subs right behind me, it’s just I feel something is missing a little bit if the FF’s aren’t contributing enough as well. A fullness and weight I guess you could say and something else that’s hard to put in words. ATM, My FFs and VNFs are about the same SPL level now crossed at 90hz. Seems to be a real nice blend at the moment, I may eventually prefer VNFs at a lower level or LP’d lower as well like Beast.

@ereed , if your FR is pretty decent on your VNF sub(s) as well as your FF’s on their own, it’s pretty easy to check out how it sounds and feels with different level settings between the two If you’ve got holes somewhere in the FR (especially if it’s an important one) on each FF or VNF by themselves though, it makes it a little tougher to do.

In a nutshell, this is the diff I’ve found with the VNFs ran hotter than the FFs (at least with my moderate sub system compared to some around here and in my room I’m in now, as well as the living room I was previously in):

1. Usually more slam/impact and TR with a thinner less weightier sound, allowing subs to be ran hotter before they become offensive to the ears sound wise (even with a very similar FR as the FFs). Nice if you’re looking for more feel but not wanting it to sound like more SPL’s.

2. Can sound like it missing a little something though if FFs are not contributing enough.

This is the diff I’ve found with the FFs ran hotter than the VNFs:

1. Pretty much the opposite of 1 above, but still good.
2. Kind of like 2 up above, can sound, but mainly feel like its missing something as well, at least if you are used to and like what VNFs bring to the party.

I’m used to and like having VNFs blast me and used to even use an MBM right behind me chest level to bring on the chest slam even more. But like I mentioned up above, maybe I’m mellowing out some and am starting to want and like a little more balanced sound and weight to go with what the VNFs bring, IDK lol. Even Stevens on the levels of FFs and VNFs is what I’m digging at the moment but may continue to change some. Cool things is, it’s pretty easy to change

Just my 2 cents from my experiences so far. I will say though, sooooooo glad i tried VNF, and could never go back to FF's alone With some patience and messing with it, you can pretty much dial in what you want with both FF's and VNF's if your room isn't just terrible. Mine rooms haven't been the best for sure, but still doable.
Played with my 3 subs and I redid the spl sub calibration using test tones. Now my farfields are 4db higher than my very nearfield and I like it better. Seems more balanced all around! Now I got crowsons on the way.....can't wait!
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post #9257 of 13427 Old 07-25-2018, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Theriddler07sms View Post
So its time to upgarde my system. I went from Ascend Acoustics Sierra speakers and a Rythmik F12 sub to Klipsch RP160s, 450c, 250s and a Rythmik FV15HP. I have a Denon x1300w now and eventually want to upgrade but its not needed right now.

Anyway, this summer I will be ordering a couple PSA 210t's and a 210c for my LCR and I had thought about going dual Rythmik FV15HP. Originally i had debated between the FV15HP and the Cap1400 and went with the Rythmik. It has been a Fantastic sub but I want more haha. My F12 wasnt enough for my room, FV15 has been great but I want better SPL and better FR. I was looking between the 2400ULF and the 4000ULF. Space isnt an issue because I am on the first floor of a duplex (buddy lives upstairs so no issues with sound since he's usually at my place watching movies anyway). Anywho, I know duals is always better than a single sub. However, if i go with JTR I will be starting with a single sub and upgrading for a second one down the road. My current room is roughly 2000sq open concept. This is a temporary place and eventually I will be buying a house and building a dedicated space for a theater which will never been any bigger than 3500sq. Will the 4000ULF be too big for this spot? I listen at roughly -15 to -10 reference most of the time with the sub tuned about 9db hot. Every so often i like to turn the sound near reference to see if the house will crumble but hasnt happened yet haha.

Like I said, whatever I decide, i will eventually get duals since duals are always better than singles when tuned right.
A couple of points. There is not a huge difference between the Klipsch RPs and the PSA speakers. Also, you will likely get a better deal on new speakers & subs if you choose the same vendor. If you are going to go with PSA speakers, dual V3611 subs will be plenty for your current and future spaces. If you want to go with JTR subs you should take a close look at JTR speakers as well which are a larger upgrade over Klipsch.

Spoiler!

You are on your second Rythmik sub. The Rythmik FV15HP can be paired with their FV18, FV18P*, or FV25HP. I would personally keep the FV15HP and to supplement a FV18 or FV18P* (*coming soon). On another hand it is not too difficult to sell a used FV15HP. Where are you located?
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post #9258 of 13427 Old 07-25-2018, 12:35 PM
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yes, i may have miscalculated hahha. my bad. it is closer to 2000-2500 cubic feet. you were correct.
There is a customer with three Cap 4000ULFs. You could have been the first with four!

...Actually, the flagship JTR solution would be dual Orbit Shifters plus dual 4000ULFs.
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post #9259 of 13427 Old 07-25-2018, 12:46 PM
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...Actually, the flagship JTR solution would be dual Orbit Shifters plus dual 4000ULFs.
Flagship you say! Bahaha. What a dream setup Wonder if anyone is getting close to that
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post #9260 of 13427 Old 07-25-2018, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Theriddler07sms View Post
So its time to upgarde my system. I went from Ascend Acoustics Sierra speakers and a Rythmik F12 sub to Klipsch RP160s, 450c, 250s and a Rythmik FV15HP. I have a Denon x1300w now and eventually want to upgrade but its not needed right now.

Anyway, this summer I will be ordering a couple PSA 210t's and a 210c for my LCR and I had thought about going dual Rythmik FV15HP. Originally i had debated between the FV15HP and the Cap1400 and went with the Rythmik. It has been a Fantastic sub but I want more haha. My F12 wasnt enough for my room, FV15 has been great but I want better SPL and better FR. I was looking between the 2400ULF and the 4000ULF. Space isnt an issue because I am on the first floor of a duplex (buddy lives upstairs so no issues with sound since he's usually at my place watching movies anyway). Anywho, I know duals is always better than a single sub. However, if i go with JTR I will be starting with a single sub and upgrading for a second one down the road. My current room is roughly 2000sq open concept. This is a temporary place and eventually I will be buying a house and building a dedicated space for a theater which will never been any bigger than 3500sq. Will the 4000ULF be too big for this spot? I listen at roughly -15 to -10 reference most of the time with the sub tuned about 9db hot. Every so often i like to turn the sound near reference to see if the house will crumble but hasnt happened yet haha.

Like I said, whatever I decide, i will eventually get duals since duals are always better than singles when tuned right.

Hi,

I wanted to see what some of the other advice would be before offering my own, but let me see if I can summarize what you are saying. You have had two different Rythmiks and aren't so far able to get quite what you want from either of them. What you say you want is more SPL--presumably low-frequency SPL, and not just mid-bass SPL; and you want better frequency response (FR).

As I'm sure you know, moving to a JTR subwoofer won't give you better frequency response. That is either dependent on better sub placement, or on having dual subs to help with random peaks and valleys in the FR where a single sub is interacting with room modes. So, assuming that you have already worked on good subwoofer placement, what you are really looking for there is dual subs.

The low-bass SPL you are looking for is definitely something that the JTR subs can provide. (If it were only more mid-bass SPL you wanted, I might recommend V3611's.) In addition to more low-bass SPL, I suspect that there is something else that you lack a little bit with the two different Rythmik subs you have tried. That is tactile response. I believe that I can offer at least a partial explanation for why the big ported JTR subs have so much more low-bass TR than the ported Rythmik subs do. But, explanations aside, there is ample evidence that the ported Captivators produce much more low-bass TR than the ported Rythmiks.

You notice I keep emphasizing low-bass TR. That's because the low-bass thunder, rumble, explosion sensations are produced somewhat differently than the mid-bass chest punch sensations, from the thump of a bass drum or from a gunshot. Most of us can get plenty of the mid-bass tactile sensations from a lot of different subwoofers, and even from some speakers. But, the low-bass tactile sensations require more effort to obtain from our subwoofers. And, that's what I believe you are really looking for.

If I put all of that together: better FR, more SPL, and more low-bass TR, it leads me to the same conclusion that Jamie reached (in fewer words ). What I think that you should really do is to prioritize. Keep your existing speakers for the time being, and go all-in on a pair of Cap 2400's. You could certainly go straight to a single Cap 4000, but it wouldn't solve any issues you have with frequency response. In fact it might make them worse, because as Ray pointed out, it will be even less forgiving with respect to placement than the sub you have now. That's something that he recently confirmed for himself, in a room about the size of yours, even with two subwoofers. Placement flexibility matters with respect to FR.

So, I think that dual Cap 2400's would give you exactly what you are looking for: better frequency response than you have now, if you are willing to experiment with placement; much more low-bass SPL; and much more low-bass tactile response. And, I believe that you will still find the Cap 2400's very effective in the future, when you can move to a larger space. But, even there, placement flexibility may still turn-out to be very important.

Regards,
Mike

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
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what tools do you use to measure room responses? Any recommendation for an spl microphone? Thanks
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what tools do you use to measure room responses? Any recommendation for an spl microphone? Thanks
The least expensive is a UMIK-1 and Room EQ Wizard.

There are also the Dayton Omnimic and XTZ Room Analyzer packages. They are said to be easier to use but not as powerful as REW. The Dayton mic can be used with REW. I'm not sure about the XTZ mic.
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what tools do you use to measure room responses? Any recommendation for an spl microphone? Thanks
If you have an android phone there is an app called "auditool" that has complex features to measure FR, including integrating REW. But like Marc said, you need that Dayton mic.
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Thanks, which one of the two would you recommend:

Dayton Audio EMM-6 Electret Measurement microphone or the miniDSP UMIK-1USB.
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Thanks, which one of the two would you recommend:

Dayton Audio EMM-6 Electret Measurement microphone or the miniDSP UMIK-1USB.
This is the one Marc recommends:

Dayton Audio iMM-6 Calibrated Measurement Microphone for Tablets iPhone iPad and Android
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post #9266 of 13427 Old 07-27-2018, 02:37 AM
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Thanks, which one of the two would you recommend:

Dayton Audio EMM-6 Electret Measurement microphone or the miniDSP UMIK-1USB.

If you will be using REW on your laptop, then either would be fine. If you have Amazon prime, I would order and try them both. Seeing that the MiniDSP mic is $40 more, I am inclined to get the Dayton Audio EMM-6 Electret Measurement microphone.
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So my Cap2400 is finally on the way. Can't wait to get it. How did you all take the delivery from FedEx. Do they unload it to your front door or keep it on your trolley. Also, did you guys call FedEx to fix a time for the delivery? Thank you everyone.
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So my Cap2400 is finally on the way. Can't wait to get it. How did you all take the delivery from FedEx. Do they unload it to your front door or keep it on your trolley. Also, did you guys call FedEx to fix a time for the delivery? Thank you everyone.
FedEx called me to set up a delivery date. If no one is going to be home you can ask for a 30-minute call ahead. The driver wheeled the pallet with my 2400 into the garage, but I'm sure if you tip him he would help you move it into your house.
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Thanks, which one of the two would you recommend:

Dayton Audio EMM-6 Electret Measurement microphone or the miniDSP UMIK-1USB.

The Dayton Audio EMM-6 Electret Measurement microphone is now $58 shipped on Amazon and Parts-Express. Get yours now!!!

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #9270 of 13427 Old 07-31-2018, 08:23 PM
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So my Cap2400 is finally on the way. Can't wait to get it. How did you all take the delivery from FedEx. Do they unload it to your front door or keep it on your trolley. Also, did you guys call FedEx to fix a time for the delivery? Thank you everyone.
Congrats!

My delivery was similar exceept Jeff told me to call them and setup a time. They moved it into the garage, no further.

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