Official JTR Speakers Subwoofer Thread - Page 320 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #9571 of 13731 Old 08-19-2018, 05:54 PM
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This is a test...for image set to "hidden" sorry it is so large...and not a JTR subwoofer.

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post #9572 of 13731 Old 08-19-2018, 06:15 PM
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CAT 4000 ULFeline
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post #9573 of 13731 Old 08-19-2018, 06:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
It's not just the port area.

It's the ratio of the port area / port length. In a multi-tuned system, the user can't change the port length, which is inside the sub. However, the user can change the port tune by changing the port area.

This is why in a 3 port sub, all ports open will yield the highest port tune (max output mode). Stuff 1 port will lower the port tune. Stuff 2 ports will provide the max extension mode, which has the smallest port area/port length ratio.

Of course the above is just the port tune of the cabinet. The manufacturer has to do something on the amp end.
Very nice discussion!

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post #9574 of 13731 Old 08-19-2018, 06:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psychdoctor View Post
This is a test...for image set to "hidden" sorry it is so large...and not a JTR subwoofer.


Wow beautiful picture. Are you a shutterbug as well? What camera & lens for this shot?
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post #9575 of 13731 Old 08-19-2018, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ereed View Post
From looking at your avatar, it looks like perhaps you may not have the best placement for the subs? While they look good flanking the center channel, that's not always the best placement for performance. I wonder if you are able to move the subs around on side walls, behind you on rear wall or even nearfield? How far are you sitting from the subs?


That’s the only place they can go. And they actually work quite well there. I do have rew and an umik1. I actually have a pretty flat response, and no matter where I move
Them, it doesn’t get much better. Which I didn’t believe, but even plugging my room dimensions into the room simulator, i can’t come up with anything better. I sit about 15’ away from them.


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post #9576 of 13731 Old 08-19-2018, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by cannga View Post
Wow beautiful picture. Are you a shutterbug as well? What camera & lens for this shot?
Pixel XL phone believe or not but ya, i have Nikon D750 with 105 Macro lens for my really good stuff...

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post #9577 of 13731 Old 08-19-2018, 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Tforbes87 View Post
Hi Mir3acles,

I know you've spent quite some time finding a solution to the ground loop hum etc. after installing your Cap2400ULF but have you ever had the chance to demo any material since? I would love to hear your impressions if you have any, thanks!

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Hi TForbes,

I am still trying to get it to where its optimal and am a long way from completely being set up. I like the sub although I still feel its boomy at some frequency (I think its more related to my placement at the wall corner though). I am still struggling to find that chest punch that everyone talks about. But yes for sure I was watching Jurassic Park the other day and it did pressurize my ears..lol although I do have an open floor plan and my room is pretty big. I am a little concerned about the volume output from the sub and I felt like I wanted more sub volume/ output (particularly true when I was watching Netflix at normal to low volume with the gain set to almost full and avr trim at -5) but then I switched the DEQ and dynamic volume to light and it made a world of a difference with the sub output. I am not a big fan of DEQ and compression so I have to play around and see whats going on so that I can turn them back off. At present my Cap2400 is behind me and I want to move it closer to my front stage. I have two huge Def Tech towers which are bipolar and are preventing me to move the sub to the front and plus I am limited to space on the front (my def tech subs are set to off ever since I got the Cap). But I am sure I will find a way to move them to the front at a later time I tried a few Blu-ray movies and they sounded fantastic so it could just be the Netflix content (using Nvidia shield). I just ordered the UMIK-1 to see if I can calibrate my speakers a bit more. Any suggestions are most welcome as I really need to find the right balance to tame these Caps. I will update my progress as I try and figure out where and how I saw improvements in the sub as I continue to play around with placement and calibration.

Last edited by mir3acles; 08-19-2018 at 11:42 PM.
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post #9578 of 13731 Old 08-20-2018, 12:15 AM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Spoiler!
I'm not sure we are making the right assumptions in estimating the performance of the new subs.

One thing we learned in the past fee months was that the 1400 did not use the same driver as the ULF subs (opposed to what was previously reported/assumed). @chucky7 you posted that the new 2400 uses the same driver as the ULFs. Was this an assumption or directly from Jeff? You may need to confirm. Which driver is significant in regards to the midbass.

It is the lower tuning that sacrifices a bit of output (only ~1-2dB) at the old tuning frequency (and ~1.5 octave above) and the UL frequencies sapping amplifier power. Jeff generally chooses an amp with enough power to require DSP limiting across the board. This is to utilize all of the driver's capabilities, while still protecting it from user inflicted damage. This is why Jeff has stated that there is no real-world performance benefit to using the 240V 6000W amp in the 4000ULF.

The Speakerpower (non-Ice) amps are known for high-current, sustained output. The lowest frequencies are excursion limited, not power limited. The upper-bass frequencies are thermally limited. Look at some data-bass tests of passive systems and see the voltages used in testing. One may be surprised at the voltages in the CEA tables.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
The smaller cab should increase mid bass and decrease low bass. Of course this means it will take more power to reach it's limits as well.
Interesting. How would a smaller cab increase midbass? Where would you guess the transition frequency is where the smaller cab displays the above characteristics?
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post #9579 of 13731 Old 08-20-2018, 12:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
I'm not sure we are making the right assumptions in estimating the performance of the new subs.

One thing we learned in the past fee months was that the 1400 did not use the same driver as the ULF subs (opposed to what was previously reported/assumed). @chucky7 you posted that the new 2400 uses the same driver as the ULFs. Was this an assumption or directly from Jeff? You may need to confirm. Which driver is significant in regards to the midbass.
Well, it is my understanding of the JTR products.

On JTR's site, the picture for the 1400/2400ULF/4000ULF driver is the same. I thought they were the same driver, only to be corrected by desertdome that the 1400 driver has a different resistance. I believe this is due to the different amps used. Now what the 2400 and the 2400ULF both use the 2400W amp, there is no reason to believe that the drivers are different.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

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post #9580 of 13731 Old 08-20-2018, 07:42 AM
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Well I finally got my S2s. Man they are heavy. I can only imagine how heavy the 4000 is. One of them came without the grill so I e-mailed Jeff about, just waiting to hear back. Hopefully he can ship one out to me.


The drivers are beautiful. Everything about them is amazing. I was able to put them in place but not set them up just yet. Have to clean everything up.


Quick question, I will be using ARC from an Anthem AVM60 for calibration only for now. Besides level matching the subs with the Gain knob, what should I put the other knobs to? There seems to be LF Adjust, Crossover (I believe I will put that at the "out" setting as the AVM60 will take care of that?), and Delay. ARC should take care of most of those settings already, but to bypass them or anything, what would I put them at?


Any help is appreciated.

Thanks,
Dan
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post #9581 of 13731 Old 08-20-2018, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by jbrazda View Post
I did know that 2400ulf would do the job. What I’m wondering is if either the 2400, or 118 would be a worthwhile replacement, or just a sideways move. With the sale going on until the end of the month, this would be a good time to do it. The 2400 ULF is just too large for me. The height dimension doesn’t work in my room.
The dual Captivator 118HT subs that were at the JTR open house a couple years ago are among my favorite subwoofers. Below is how two of the 2019 models would compare to some other JTR subs. I included the S2 in the chart since I own one. It is a great sounding compact subwoofer. If you are available, I could come over next week sometime and let you listen to the S2 and possibly a 118HT (not the 2019 version) in your own house. This would give you a feel for how the drivers sound. I'm also getting in two 4000ULF's in a few weeks for a customer in Lincoln. I realize they won't fit in your room, but a pair of them is great fun.

I'm moving this week and won't have my new house built until the end of the year. When the theater is done, I'll have you over.

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post #9582 of 13731 Old 08-20-2018, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04rex View Post
Quick question, I will be using ARC from an Anthem AVM60 for calibration only for now. Besides level matching the subs with the Gain knob, what should I put the other knobs to? There seems to be LF Adjust, Crossover (I believe I will put that at the "out" setting as the AVM60 will take care of that?), and Delay. ARC should take care of most of those settings already, but to bypass them or anything, what would I put them at?


Any help is appreciated.

Thanks,
Dan
The Crossover should be @ 120 Hz/Out and Delay @ 0 ms. The ARC will take care of those.


The LF Adjust should be @ 1/4 to 1/2, so that you can still turn it up to increase the bottom end.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #9583 of 13731 Old 08-20-2018, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
The Crossover should be @ 120 Hz/Out and Delay @ 0 ms. The ARC will take care of those.


The LF Adjust should be @ 1/4 to 1/2, so that you can still turn it up to increase the bottom end.

Sweet, thank you. I will try those.

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post #9584 of 13731 Old 08-20-2018, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
Adding to this question: Does this mean the 2400 is more prone to port noise then?
Any take on this since the 2400 has the same cabinet size as the 1400 but tuned much lower, and being pushed by a bigger amp? Or did Jeff make the port bigger? The port definitely needs to be longer on the 2400.
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post #9585 of 13731 Old 08-20-2018, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
Any take on this since the 2400 has the same cabinet size as the 1400 but tuned much lower, and being pushed by a bigger amp? Or did Jeff make the port bigger? The port definitely needs to be longer on the 2400.
My 1400 has a bend in the port. The port goes all the way to the back then up to about 2/5 the height of the 1400.

Going by the port dimension of Todd's 2400ULF, a port area measuring 9 3/16 by 2 1/16 is equivalent to a 5" round port.

Lowering the port tune while maintaining the same port area as the 1400 would require the port to be lengthened. The loss of internal volume would need to be reclaimed. This means a rework of the cabinet to make it bigger. Therefore, the easier approach would be to decrease the port area.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 08-20-2018 at 02:23 PM.
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post #9586 of 13731 Old 08-20-2018, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Therefore, the easier approach would be to decrease the port area.
Which led to my port noise question. So more likely the 2400 is easier to chuff than the 1400, agree?
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post #9587 of 13731 Old 08-20-2018, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
Which led to my port noise question. So more likely the 2400 is easier to chuff than the 1400, agree?
If the 2400's tuning frequency remained at 1400's 17Hz, then yes.

However, the 2400's tuning frequency is now at 10Hz, which makes it immune to World War Z - Grenade scene, Pulse - Server Scene or Don't Breathe - Money Shot scene, 3 of the 4 known scenes that were difficult for the 1400 at my bass listening level... much less other lesser subs.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 08-20-2018 at 10:29 PM.
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post #9588 of 13731 Old 08-20-2018, 06:29 PM
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post #9589 of 13731 Old 08-20-2018, 06:33 PM
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Take all the stuff off the walls and shelves.


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post #9590 of 13731 Old 08-20-2018, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
If the 2400's tuning frequency remained at 1400's 17Hz, then yes.

However, the 2400's tuning frequency is now at 10Hz, which will make it immune to World War Z - Grenade scene, Pulse - Server Scene.
10hz tuned means there is more air coming out of that port and if the port area is smaller then it is more prone to port noise, no?
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post #9591 of 13731 Old 08-20-2018, 07:05 PM
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Those look awfully familiar!

Congrats man and let us know your thoughts. Or just count how much **** falls off your walls and shelves........then we'll know how good they are!

Todd
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post #9592 of 13731 Old 08-20-2018, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
The Crossover should be @ 120 Hz/Out and Delay @ 0 ms. The ARC will take care of those.


The LF Adjust should be @ 1/4 to 1/2, so that you can still turn it up to increase the bottom end.
I have a question. The crossover knob on the far right says 120 followed by Out. What does Out mean. Is the dial supposed to be set to 120 or Out which seems to be the last setting.
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post #9593 of 13731 Old 08-20-2018, 07:20 PM
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Take all the stuff off the walls and shelves.


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Congrats. Looks awesome. I received my Cap 2400 ULF on Friday, and it looks awesome. Of course,with work and family obligations this week end, I was only able to play around with it a little, I did have the chance to watch Cloverfield with my son and all I can saw is "WOW". It blew us away. I will have to recalibrate with audyssey again soon, and demo some other movies. It may have taken a while to get, but I can tell already that it was worth the wait.
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post #9594 of 13731 Old 08-20-2018, 07:27 PM
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How do people think a JTR 2400 compares with rythmikaudio F25 ?
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post #9595 of 13731 Old 08-20-2018, 07:34 PM
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How do people think a JTR 2400 compares with rythmikaudio F25 ?


You mean FV25 right? Vented to vented comparison. Both are stellar subs. I have heard the 2400 not the FV25. The 2400 will give you more tactile response than the FV25. Both can output crazy amount of SPL. The rythmik play witty even lower distortion than the 2400. It depends what your priorities are. You would not go wrong with either though.


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post #9596 of 13731 Old 08-20-2018, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LennS View Post
I have a question. The crossover knob on the far right says 120 followed by Out. What does Out mean. Is the dial supposed to be set to 120 or Out which seems to be the last setting.



The amp allows a crossover range of 60~120Hz.

Unless you want to do cascade cross-over, most folks just use the AVR to set the crossover. This is why it is often recommended to just turn the crossover knob up all the way.

Maybe 'out' means an external crossover (in this case, the AVR's crossover ) is used so that it is inactive?

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #9597 of 13731 Old 08-20-2018, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by detroit1 View Post
How do people think a JTR 2400 compares with rythmikaudio F25 ?

jtr a tad more expensive and single 18...rythmik dual 15 and less expensive...performance and size very close.


rythmik designed to sound like sealed subs/replicate music best...jtr from what I read has a bit more distortion which gives a better movie theater feel imo. ofc the rythmik most powerful sub they make...JTR has still bigger subs

Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc900, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5, Magnepan LRS
Subs: Rythmik FV25HP, Rythmik FV15HP

Last edited by torii; 08-20-2018 at 07:41 PM.
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post #9598 of 13731 Old 08-20-2018, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by torii View Post
jtr a tad more expensive and single 18...rythmik dual 15 and less expensive...performance and size very close.


Lol. That is the best comparison I have seen between subs.


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Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD
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post #9599 of 13731 Old 08-20-2018, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by 04rex View Post
Well I finally got my S2s. Man they are heavy. I can only imagine how heavy the 4000 is. One of them came without the grill so I e-mailed Jeff about, just waiting to hear back. Hopefully he can ship one out to me.


The drivers are beautiful. Everything about them is amazing. I was able to put them in place but not set them up just yet. Have to clean everything up.


Quick question, I will be using ARC from an Anthem AVM60 for calibration only for now. Besides level matching the subs with the Gain knob, what should I put the other knobs to? There seems to be LF Adjust, Crossover (I believe I will put that at the "out" setting as the AVM60 will take care of that?), and Delay. ARC should take care of most of those settings already, but to bypass them or anything, what would I put them at?


Any help is appreciated.

Thanks,
Dan
You are going to love your S2s! I would caution you in making the assumption that ARC will make your subs sound best. My recommendation is to purchase an outboard XLR DSP so that you can EQ your subs manually (using REW and umik). Then try ARC. I actually prefer the way my sub response sounds using manual EQ over Audyssey. These things are built like a vault and can cruise through most anything you can throw at them. The other thing I like is that their 50-70Hz output crushes everything except for the 4000ULF (and the Captivator Pro ... but that thing is huge)

7.4.6 system: Processors:Marantz 8805 || Xilica XP4080 Amps: Parasound A31 and ATI AT528NC & AT526NC n-core ||Speakers: Procella P8 LCR, Procella P5/P5 in-wall
Subs: JTR Captivator subs: One S2, Two RS2, One S1
Screen: 2.40:1 Seymour XD Acoustically Transparent, 128" diagonal / 118" wide || Projector: JVC X570/RS420
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post #9600 of 13731 Old 08-20-2018, 07:43 PM
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Congrats. Looks awesome. I received my Cap 2400 ULF on Friday, and it looks awesome. Of course, with work and family obligations this week end, I was only able to play around with it a little, I did have the chance to watch Cloverfield with my son and all I can saw is "WOW". It blew us away. I will have to recalibrate with audyssey again soon, and demo some other movies. It may have taken a while to get, but I can tell already that it was worth the wait.
Congratulations!

Geez man... How do you even hold the excitement???


Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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