Official JTR Speakers Subwoofer Thread - Page 321 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #9601 of 13688 Old 08-20-2018, 07:55 PM
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I meant the F25 Sub which is a dual Sealed Sub vs the 2400
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post #9602 of 13688 Old 08-20-2018, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detroit1 View Post
I meant the F25 Sub which is a dual Sealed Sub vs the 2400

It’s apples and oranges. So if you can share your room details people can provide what they think would better in your room. Generally for open spaces and HT a ported is recommended. I am still not clear why you are comparing a ported from one manufacturer and sealed from another. May be you can help me understand?



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post #9603 of 13688 Old 08-20-2018, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
You mean FV25 right? Vented to vented comparison. Both are stellar subs. I have heard the 2400 not the FV25. The 2400 will give you more tactile response than the FV25. Both can output crazy amount of SPL. The rythmik play witty even lower distortion than the 2400. It depends what your priorities are. You would not go wrong with either though.


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I don’t think anyone has heard the 2400 yet which is what he was asking. What you heard was the 2400ULF.
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post #9604 of 13688 Old 08-20-2018, 08:08 PM
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I wonder if the output of the dual sealed F25 can match the 2400ULF

Rhythmic writes on the site that the F25 Sealed can output like their ported designs. It is also a lot cheaper than the FV model
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post #9605 of 13688 Old 08-20-2018, 08:09 PM
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Official JTR Speakers Subwoofer Thread

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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
I don’t think anyone has heard the 2400 yet which is what he was asking. What you heard was the 2400ULF.


Ah. Good point. But even then why compare a ported from one and sealed from another manufacturer. JTR and rythmik are different breed to start with and then you add in the ported vs sealed....


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post #9606 of 13688 Old 08-20-2018, 08:11 PM
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I forgot to throw in the PSA v3611 which seems to be a strong contender in these price points as well
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post #9607 of 13688 Old 08-20-2018, 08:12 PM
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not even close if comparing the sealed vs vented...think the fv25 is -10db as loud as fv25hp which is almost same as 2400

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post #9608 of 13688 Old 08-20-2018, 08:12 PM
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Official JTR Speakers Subwoofer Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by detroit1 View Post
I forgot to throw in the PSA v3611 which seems to be a strong contender in these price points as well


Ok. We need to reign this in. Let’s start with your room and listening preferences.

Also remember you are asking this in a JTR thread. May be better to start a new one for yourself.


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post #9609 of 13688 Old 08-20-2018, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Wow... That is tempting. I've always liked the 2400ULF. I've always considered it the best marriage of ULF output and size. But the the new 2400... now that's really tempting for people who need to worry about size constraints. If I were in the market for new subs I think I would still have the 2400ULF on the short list (because it's only $200 more) but that 2400 sure is tempting. Nice job Jeff.
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post #9610 of 13688 Old 08-20-2018, 08:23 PM
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I dont know what to do should I take advantage of the 15% off sale and get the 2019 2400 or should I get the 2400ulf I like the smaller cabinet of the 2400 but not sure if -3db at 10hz will be such a big difference and will the rest of the fq range be pretty much the same? I know there isnt much info on it yet but by the way it seems to you guys will there be a noticable difference between the two
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post #9611 of 13688 Old 08-20-2018, 08:28 PM
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well for music I never really noticed much under 30hz...for movies I know of 3 or 4 scenes that might get that low...

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post #9612 of 13688 Old 08-20-2018, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by BobZealand View Post
I dont know what to do should I take advantage of the 15% off sale and get the 2019 2400 or should I get the 2400ulf I like the smaller cabinet of the 2400 but not sure if -3db at 10hz will be such a big difference and will the rest of the fq range be pretty much the same? I know there isnt much info on it yet but by the way it seems to you guys will there be a noticable difference between the two
"It is priced at $2499 plus shipping. Introductory price is 15% off at $2124 + shipping."

Assuming shipping is roughly $150, you're looking at under $2300 delivered. The 2400ulf is $2699 + shipping, which has to go freight, so maybe $250 there, which is roughly a $700 swing. I'm not sure the 3db down low is worth it, IF they are neck and neck in the mid bass. You might only be able to tell the difference if they were side by side and even then, who knows. But there's always the "what if" monster lurking under the bed.

At the into price, the new 2400 is a bad mamba Jamba!

Food for thought, if you're not chasing the lowest extension, new dual 118HT's at a little over $3k delivered......OMG!

Todd
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Last edited by toddct; 08-20-2018 at 08:51 PM.
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post #9613 of 13688 Old 08-20-2018, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by BobZealand View Post
I dont know what to do should I take advantage of the 15% off sale and get the 2019 2400 or should I get the 2400ulf I like the smaller cabinet of the 2400 but not sure if -3db at 10hz will be such a big difference and will the rest of the fq range be pretty much the same? I know there isnt much info on it yet but by the way it seems to you guys will there be a noticable difference between the two


I’ve been doing this type of debate for years, and I’ve come to realize perception is reality. If you feel like the ULF will be better, then it will be and you should just get it. There is nothing worse than “cheaping out” on something that costs several thousands of dollars.

If you can fit it, do what needs to be done and get the big sub. I finally did this with a pair of 1400’s and they are being delivered tomorrow - I can’t friggin wait!


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post #9614 of 13688 Old 08-20-2018, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by toddct View Post
"It is priced at $2499 plus shipping. Introductory price is 15% off at $2124 + shipping."

Assuming shipping is roughly $150, you're looking at under $2300 delivered. The 2400ulf is $2699 + shipping, which has to go freight, so maybe $250 there, which is roughly a $700 swing. I'm not sure the 3db down low is worth it, IF they are neck and neck in the mid bass. You might only be able to tell the difference if they were side by side and even then, who knows. But there's always the "what if" monster lurking under the bed.

At the into price, the new 2400 is a bad mamba Jamba!

Food for thought, if you're not chasing the lowest extension, new dual 118HT's at a little over $3k delivered......OMG!

Todd
Yea the whatif is what gets me but the price is hard to pass up.... decisions..
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post #9615 of 13688 Old 08-20-2018, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by FattyMcButterPants View Post
I’ve been doing this type of debate for years, and I’ve come to realize perception is reality. If you feel like the ULF will be better, then it will be and you should just get it. There is nothing worse than “cheaping out” on something that costs several thousands of dollars.

If you can fit it, do what needs to be done and get the big sub. I finally did this with a pair of 1400’s and they are being delivered tomorrow - I can’t friggin wait!


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Awesome, congrats on your new subs and I completley agree with what you said its just that intro price 😨
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post #9616 of 13688 Old 08-20-2018, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
10hz tuned means there is more air coming out of that port and if the port area is smaller then it is more prone to port noise, no?
Your question is a weird one...

At what frequency? Otherwise, there is no way to know how much the driver and the port are contributing to the output...

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post #9617 of 13688 Old 08-21-2018, 12:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by LennS View Post
I have a question. The crossover knob on the far right says 120 followed by Out. What does Out mean. Is the dial supposed to be set to 120 or Out which seems to be the last setting.
You want OUT, *not* 120. Out essentially (to keep it simple) means the internal subwoofer's crossover is off, your receiver sets the crossover point.

Look at it another way, there are two ways to set crossover: by the subwoofer, or by the receiver. Since you only need one crossover setting, you turn off the one in the subwoofer, and use the one in the receiver. More or less, the gist of it.

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post #9618 of 13688 Old 08-21-2018, 12:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by LennS View Post
Congrats. Looks awesome. I received my Cap 2400 ULF on Friday, and it looks awesome. Of course,with work and family obligations this week end, I was only able to play around with it a little, I did have the chance to watch Cloverfield with my son and all I can saw is "WOW". It blew us away. I will have to recalibrate with audyssey again soon, and demo some other movies. It may have taken a while to get, but I can tell already that it was worth the wait.
My life has not been the same since I watched Cloverfield with the JTR 1400.

If you don't have them already, don't forget the other big time block busters, War of the Worlds, Incredible Hulk, etc. Astounding sound, astounding power, SO much fun!

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post48981473



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post #9619 of 13688 Old 08-21-2018, 01:03 AM - Thread Starter
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@LennS , also if you like Cloverfield, another similar one (great movies with great bass) and absolute must-have is Dredd (not Judge Dredd):

>>>>>>>>>>
***Dredd A 5-star bass blockbuster with an extremely polished bass mix, and as a bonus, a very tongue-in-cheek funny action movie. I am just not content with hearing explosions anymore (War Horse for example) because it gets boring after a while, so I'm happy that in Dredd, the bass mix is sophisticated with a variety of bass effects, and therefore so much more interesting. My son the movie buff and I both loved it. Available for pennies on ebay and therefore *extremely* highly recommended. There are other movies (NOT many) with perhaps "louder" bass, but this is top 7 because it has "sophisticated" bass :-). Scenes: Chapter 2 5:50 - Chapter 7 Lock down; door dropping - Chapter 10: Opens with an explosion that would clean your ears and followed by complete mayhem. Of note, at 51:38 Of note, at 51:38 as extremely menacing rumbling came on as Dredd tortured Kay. So subtle yet adds so much to the experience - listen to see if your subwoofer highlights this, I love it!

Regards, Can
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post #9620 of 13688 Old 08-21-2018, 01:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
Any take on this since the 2400 has the same cabinet size as the 1400 but tuned much lower, and being pushed by a bigger amp? Or did Jeff make the port bigger? The port definitely needs to be longer on the 2400.
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
the easier approach would be to decrease the port area.
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
Which led to my port noise question. So more likely the 2400 is easier to chuff than the 1400, agree?
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
If the 2400's tuning frequency remained at 1400's 17Hz, then yes.

However, the 2400's tuning frequency is now at 10Hz, which makes it immune to World War Z - Grenade scene, Pulse - Server Scene or Don't Breathe - Money Shot scene, 3 of the 4 known scenes that were difficult for the 1400 at my bass listening level... much less other lesser subs.
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
10hz tuned means there is more air coming out of that port and if the port area is smaller then it is more prone to port noise, no?
Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Your question is a weird one...

At what frequency? Otherwise, there is no way to know how much the driver and the port are contributing to the output...
If you follow our conversations, I am comparing the 1400 to the new 2400. Take my FV15 as an example, 1 port mode is more prone to port noise than 2 ports playing the Pulse server scene. Going from the 1400 to the 2400, you said the port area is decreased similar to going from 2 ports opened to one port opened on the FV15. If you follow that logic plus the 2400 now being pushed by a much more powerful amp, then I believe the 2400 is more prone to port chuffing than the 1400. Make sense?
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post #9621 of 13688 Old 08-21-2018, 02:36 AM
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Originally Posted by cannga View Post
You want OUT, *not* 120. Out essentially (to keep it simple) means the internal subwoofer's crossover is off, your receiver sets the crossover point.

Look at it another way, there are two ways to set crossover: by the subwoofer, or by the receiver. Since you only need one crossover setting, you turn off the one in the subwoofer, and use the one in the receiver. More or less, the gist of it.
Thanks for the clarification. I will make sure it;s set to OUT.
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post #9622 of 13688 Old 08-21-2018, 02:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cannga View Post
My life has not been the same since I watched Cloverfield with the JTR 1400.

If you don't have them already, don't forget the other big time block busters, War of the Worlds, Incredible Hulk, etc. Astounding sound, astounding power, SO much fun!

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post48981473


Thanks to you, I already picked up the 7 bass heavy movies (and a couple of others), you recommended on an earlier post.

Tonight I sat my son down and had the chance to demo some scenes from War of the Worlds, and San Andreas, and we were literally blow away with how much bass there was. My son stepped out of the room for a few minutes and I threw in the intro to EOT,and when he came out of the other room, he said it felt like an earthquake. I hope my house can stand up to the abuse. Oh my G.. I did not know what I was missing coming from no sub to this beast.
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post #9623 of 13688 Old 08-21-2018, 02:50 AM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post


The amp allows a crossover range of 60~120Hz.

Unless you want to do cascade cross-over, most folks just use the AVR to set the crossover. This is why it is often recommended to just turn the crossover knob up all the way.

Maybe 'out' means an external crossover (in this case, the AVR's crossover ) is used so that it is inactive?
Thanks @chucky7 I appreciate it.
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post #9624 of 13688 Old 08-21-2018, 02:54 AM
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Congratulations!

Geez man... How do you even hold the excitement???

I couldn't hold the excitement any more and demoed some more scenes from other movies, and I can tell you it brought a big smile to my face.
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post #9625 of 13688 Old 08-21-2018, 06:12 AM
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Official JTR Speakers Subwoofer Thread

Captivator Tuesday!!!

Translation: 1400’s are inbound between 1-5pm today and I took a half day from work to receive them.


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post #9626 of 13688 Old 08-21-2018, 08:35 AM
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Captivator Tuesday!!!

Translation: 1400’s are inbound between 1-5pm today and I took a half day from work to receive them.


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Be careful, these things will pressurize the hell out of a small area and if nearfield and facing a block wall with a wall on both sides of the mlp, these 2017+ 1400's will get all up in those ear drums like a car system with way to much money in the trunk.
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post #9627 of 13688 Old 08-21-2018, 11:31 AM
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Super quick update

Hooked them up ( no hum!) and followed Chucky's set up guide. Somewhere along the lines I must have made a mistake because my Yamaha AVR set the trim at -6 with both sub gains set to half! I played some material and it was waaaaaaay to booomy and sounded awful. Keep in mind I am coming from those SVSs that after several months of tweaking and MiniDSP EQing we're playing very nicely with my room. Anyway I eventually manually dropped down the trim in the AVR to -8.5 and dialed back the sub gains to 3/8. Slowly everything was beginning to sound clean and tight. Running out of time as it was getting late I quickly took some measurements and dialed in the LF Cut/boost to get a flat response in my room and added some EQ into the MiniDSP to take care of the large peaks I was hearing etc. When I get home I'll have much more time to actually demo these behemoths and share my impressions so bear with me!


Tonight I'll share some measurements, and would appreciate any and all feedback. I'm a novice when it comes to this type of stuff lol

Oh and here's a pic for size reference. PB12NSDs next to The Cap 2400ULF

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post #9628 of 13688 Old 08-21-2018, 11:50 AM
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Super quick update

Hooked them up ( no hum!) and followed Chucky's set up guide. Somewhere along the lines I must have made a mistake because my Yamaha AVR set the trim at -6 with both sub gains set to half!
Actually, I don't think you made a mistake. The AVR sub level is relative to your subs capabilities, the subwoofer's gain and the distance between your subs and the MLP.

If you had a $200 sub 20ft from the MLP with the gain set to half, your AVR might give you a sub level of +10!!!

If you don't plan to add to the sub level (this is called a trim), it doesn't matter what sub level your AVR shows. You are getting the same bass with the subs gain at 1/2 way and a sub level of -6, or the subs gain at 1/4 and a sub level of -3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tforbes87 View Post
I played some material and it was waaaaaaay to booomy and sounded awful. Keep in mind I am coming from those SVSs that after several months of tweaking and MiniDSP EQing we're playing very nicely with my room. Anyway I eventually manually dropped down the trim in the AVR to -8.5 and dialed back the sub gains to 3/8. Slowly everything was beginning to sound clean and tight. Running out of time as it was getting late I quickly took some measurements and dialed in the LF Cut/boost to get a flat response in my room and added some EQ into the MiniDSP to take care of the large peaks I was hearing etc. When I get home I'll have much more time to actually demo these behemoths and share my impressions so bear with me!

Tonight I'll share some measurements, and would appreciate any and all feedback. I'm a novice when it comes to this type of stuff lol
If you are already using the MiniDSP, then you are definitely not a novice.
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Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #9629 of 13688 Old 08-21-2018, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
If you follow our conversations, I am comparing the 1400 to the new 2400. Take my FV15 as an example, 1 port mode is more prone to port noise than 2 ports playing the Pulse server scene. Going from the 1400 to the 2400, you said the port area is decreased similar to going from 2 ports opened to one port opened on the FV15. If you follow that logic plus the 2400 now being pushed by a much more powerful amp, then I believe the 2400 is more prone to port chuffing than the 1400. Make sense?
Pulse - Server scene:



World War Z - Grenade scene:



These scenes contain super hot bass centered at 18Hz or so.

Your belief is based on the 2400's relative smaller port area compared to the Cap 1400's. The 2400 basically has a 5" round port and the 1400, 2 4" round ports. Your belief would be right if the 2400 were still tuned to 17Hz.

10Hz port tune is far enough away from 18Hz, so the driver should still be doing most of the heavy lifting. Besides, the 2400 is not expected to produce that much output at 10Hz.

Therefore, I don't think the 2400 is more prone to chuffing than the 1400.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 08-21-2018 at 01:18 PM.
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post #9630 of 13688 Old 08-21-2018, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
If you follow our conversations, I am comparing the 1400 to the new 2400. Take my FV15 as an example, 1 port mode is more prone to port noise than 2 ports playing the Pulse server scene. Going from the 1400 to the 2400, you said the port area is decreased similar to going from 2 ports opened to one port opened on the FV15. If you follow that logic plus the 2400 now being pushed by a much more powerful amp, then I believe the 2400 is more prone to port chuffing than the 1400. Make sense?
I think you need to go ahead and get a pair, test them and let us know!

Todd
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