Official JTR Speakers Subwoofer Thread - Page 324 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #9691 of 13522 Old 08-22-2018, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
This^^^ Count the clicks turning each to the left to make sure the hash marks are in fact lined up.
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Originally Posted by FattyMcButterPants View Post
Sounds good, I will give it a shot. And yes they are brand new, so that was my latest response to him as I didn’t understand either.
There should be 20 clicks from Min to Max, if I remember correctly.

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post #9692 of 13522 Old 08-22-2018, 03:17 PM
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well, chatted with Jeff this afternoon and gloss black 118 ordered.
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post #9693 of 13522 Old 08-22-2018, 03:53 PM
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well, chatted with Jeff this afternoon and gloss black 118 ordered.
Welcome to the club
Got mine on order as well....

Now, I hope Jeff sees this from both of us

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post #9694 of 13522 Old 08-22-2018, 04:01 PM
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well, chatted with Jeff this afternoon and gloss black 118 ordered.
Right choice with your set up. Will look super.

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post #9695 of 13522 Old 08-22-2018, 04:32 PM
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Hi,

I don't make any claims to the expert part, but I do have some thoughts. It seems to me as if you have already tried almost everything that you can to isolate the problem. If your back will stand it (furniture sliders from Home Depot will help) I would try swapping the subwoofer positions, just to be sure. It sounds to me as if you have a bad amp on the sub which requires a 1:00 gain setting. Have you tried moving the subwoofer positions slightly from where you had them before?

Mark Seaton, who really is an expert, has said that the center of the cabinet is the point in space which determines a subwoofer's frequency response. So, as we move to a longer or taller cabinet, the FR may change slightly, compared to a previous sub in the same spot. That's why I would try swapping (reversing) the two subwoofer positions to see if the high gain problem follows the subwoofer.
One correction here Mike:

I believe if you look back I noted the center of the *woofers* defines the acoustic center. For the 4000 that would be on the front face, between the two woofers, while a SubMersive HP has an acoustic center that is the center of the box between the two opposed woofers. The location of this effective acoustic center is what really matters, where spinning a sub like the 4000 around so the tail stuck out in the room but the woofer cones were in the same place in the room would show very little difference in the measured response at the seats. On the other hand, leaving a 4000ULF to take up the same footprint on the floor but the woofers aiming at the wall and amplifier forward would result in moving the acoustic center ~40" closer to the wall. Obviously the "LP" version reduces that difference.

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post #9696 of 13522 Old 08-22-2018, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post
One correction here Mike:

I believe if you look back I noted the center of the *woofers* defines the acoustic center. For the 4000 that would be on the front face, between the two woofers, while a SubMersive HP has an acoustic center that is the center of the box between the two opposed woofers. The location of this effective acoustic center is what really matters, where spinning a sub like the 4000 around so the tail stuck out in the room but the woofer cones were in the same place in the room would show very little difference in the measured response at the seats. On the other hand, leaving a 4000ULF to take up the same footprint on the floor but the woofers aiming at the wall and amplifier forward would result in moving the acoustic center ~40" closer to the wall. Obviously the "LP" version reduces that difference.

Thank you for the correction, Mark! I either misread what you originally said, or misunderstood it. Perhaps you were referring at the time to a Submersive with dual opposing woofers, and I misinterpreted your explanation to mean that the center of the cabinet was the key. In any event, I am glad to get the idea straight now.

Regards,
Mike
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post #9697 of 13522 Old 08-22-2018, 06:04 PM
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Alright guys, I counted the clicks. Here is what I have.

1) 20 clicks total on both amps to go from min to max. Both start at min and stop at max.

2) 12 clicks on both subs to go from min to 1pm.

3) 6 clicks on both subs to go from min to 10am.

4) Jeff says both subs definitely have the same DSP and is going to contact SpeakerPower.

5) I did pull on the knobs slightly as @basshead81 mentioned, but they didn’t come off easily, so I didn’t force the issue. Don’t want to go breaking stuff haha.

Any other thoughts?
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post #9698 of 13522 Old 08-22-2018, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by FattyMcButterPants View Post
Alright guys, I counted the clicks. Here is what I have.

1) 20 clicks total on both amps to go from min to max. Both start at min and stop at max.

2) 12 clicks on both subs to go from min to 1pm.

3) 6 clicks on both subs to go from min to 10am.

4) Jeff says both subs definitely have the same DSP and is going to contact SpeakerPower.

5) I did pull on the knobs slightly as @basshead81 mentioned, but they didn’t come off easily, so I didn’t force the issue. Don’t want to go breaking stuff haha.

Any other thoughts?
How many dBs difference between the unit, are you talking about, setting each sub in same location, just insert the same cable, gain at SAME position, say , 50%?
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post #9699 of 13522 Old 08-22-2018, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by PoorSignal View Post
How many dBs difference between the unit, are you talking about, setting each sub in same location, just insert the same cable, gain at SAME position, say , 50%?


Well, this was at the beginning of all my Captivator excitement. So my recollection might be a bit fuzzy, but I remember the difference being about 5-6 dB when both amps were set to 1pm, all other settings were the same.

What does this information tell you? If I need that data point with absolute certainty I can get it.




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post #9700 of 13522 Old 08-22-2018, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by FattyMcButterPants View Post
Well, this was at the beginning of all my Captivator excitement. So my recollection might be a bit fuzzy, but I remember the difference being about 5-6 dB when both amps were set to 1pm, all other settings were the same.

What does this information tell you? If I need that data point with absolute certainty I can get it.




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Number sounds suspiciously similar to using a splitter. Just guessing if it the "louder" one is behaving like both RCA jack is active (voltage summed) If you have a splitter than easy to verify.
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post #9701 of 13522 Old 08-22-2018, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by PoorSignal View Post
Number sounds suspiciously similar to using a splitter. Just guessing if it the "louder" one is behaving like both RCA jack is active (voltage summed) If you have a splitter than easy to verify.


Yep, this makes two votes for the splitter. I’ll go pick one up this weekend and give it a shot.


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post #9702 of 13522 Old 08-22-2018, 08:19 PM
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well, chatted with Jeff this afternoon and gloss black 118 ordered.
Welcome to the club [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/IMG]
Got mine on order as well....

Now, I hope Jeff sees this from both of us

Make that three of us. Only thing pending is paint color selection which is driving me a bit nuts due to the potential infinite possibilities. Plan to visit Sherwin Williams automotive finish store sometime soon.
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post #9703 of 13522 Old 08-23-2018, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FattyMcButterPants View Post
Alright guys, I counted the clicks. Here is what I have.

1) 20 clicks total on both amps to go from min to max. Both start at min and stop at max.

2) 12 clicks on both subs to go from min to 1pm.

3) 6 clicks on both subs to go from min to 10am.

4) Jeff says both subs definitely have the same DSP and is going to contact SpeakerPower.

5) I did pull on the knobs slightly as @basshead81 mentioned, but they didn’t come off easily, so I didn’t force the issue. Don’t want to go breaking stuff haha.

Any other thoughts?
I would Crank em' up and see if they both are exhibiting the same amount of headroom.. Honestly if you can get the levels matched and everything setup correctly I wouldn't worry about it too much as long as both subs are performing the same overall.
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post #9704 of 13522 Old 08-23-2018, 08:10 AM
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Official JTR Speakers Subwoofer Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
I would Crank em' up and see if they both are exhibiting the same amount of headroom.. Honestly if you can get the levels matched and everything setup correctly I wouldn't worry about it too much as long as both subs are performing the same overall.


Yeah, I’m not super worried about it. I’m being pretty critical on these because I want them to be my forever subs, if I keep them.

I was doing some A/B listening last night and they sound identical once level matched, so that is good. I also noticed the amp runs pretty hot, but since I haven’t seen anyone have issues with them I assume that’s normal and fine.

While doing all this I noticed that just one of these monsters is quite enough in my room. But playing both at the same time is nothing short of EPIC!

Movies are my bread and butter, unfortunately I haven’t been able to watch one yet other than some small sample scenes. But man, they are impressive with music, very impressive in my book.

I plan to rectify the movie situation tonight since I don’t have work tomorrow. If the news starts reporting sudden and unexplained earthquakes in southern Az you guys will know why.


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post #9705 of 13522 Old 08-23-2018, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by FattyMcButterPants View Post
Yeah, I’m not super worried about it. I’m being pretty critical on these because I want them to be my forever subs, if I keep them.

I was doing some A/B listening last night and they sound identical once level matched, so that is good. I also noticed the amp runs pretty hot, but since I haven’t seen anyone have issues with them I assume that’s normal and fine.

While doing all this I noticed that just one of these monsters is quite enough in my room. But playing both at the same time is nothing short of EPIC!

Movies are my bread and butter, unfortunately I haven’t been able to watch one yet other than some small sample scenes. But man, they are impressive with music, very impressive in my book.

I plan to rectify the movie situation tonight since I don’t have work tomorrow. If the news starts reporting sudden and unexplained earthquakes in southern Az you guys will know why.


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What do you mean “if I keep them”?


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post #9706 of 13522 Old 08-23-2018, 11:19 AM
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It is very interesting.

I have read many new JTR subs owners who had/have other subs comment that JTR subs are good with music.

It's as if JTR subs only excel in movies, and music is not their forte. That couldn't be further from the truth.

JTR has an extensive line up of speakers and there is no way that Jeff will sacrifice SQ for output and TR.

Of course it is always fun watching the Hulk do Cirque du Soleil.

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post #9707 of 13522 Old 08-23-2018, 11:26 AM
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What do you mean “if I keep them”?
Well, since FattyMcButterPants said that the 2 Cap 1400s are more than enough for his room, he might be considering trading some of that headroom for an EVEN BETTER extension...
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post #9708 of 13522 Old 08-23-2018, 11:35 AM
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Well, since FattyMcButterPants said that the 2 Cap 1400s are more than enough for his room, he might be considering trading some that headroom for an EVEN BETTER extension...


Ooooh


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post #9709 of 13522 Old 08-23-2018, 02:02 PM
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What do you mean “if I keep them”?


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Haha just keeping my options open is all. I chose these over other incredible competitors, so I’m trying to remain as objective as possible.

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Well, since FattyMcButterPants said that the 2 Cap 1400s are more than enough for his room, he might be considering trading some of that headroom for an EVEN BETTER extension...
You are not wrong, that would be one option.


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post #9710 of 13522 Old 08-23-2018, 02:14 PM
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Haha just keeping my options open is all. I chose these over other incredible competitors, so I’m trying to remain as objective as possible.



You are not wrong, that would be one option.


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Dude, then you have ordered them and compared them at the same time.


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post #9711 of 13522 Old 08-23-2018, 03:24 PM
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Dude, then you have ordered them and compared them at the same time.


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Haha if I was willing to incur thousands of dollars in return shipping costs 🤣

Trying to avoid that!


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post #9712 of 13522 Old 08-23-2018, 04:19 PM
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Haha if I was willing to incur thousands of dollars in return shipping costs 🤣

Trying to avoid that!


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Seriously I know it’s expensive but man it’s worth spending a few hundred when spending over $4k. Each sub interacts differently with the room and therefore no way to know that without having them in your room. As I say: there is sub and there is the room and then there is the sub for the room....coming from experience bro...


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post #9713 of 13522 Old 08-23-2018, 06:56 PM
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Well guys, thanks for helping me troubleshoot the amps. Sounds like Jeff is going to send me a new one and a return label for the old one. The subs tested within 1db of each other before shipping so something must have happened since then.


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post #9714 of 13522 Old 08-23-2018, 07:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FattyMcButterPants View Post
Alright guys, I counted the clicks. Here is what I have.

1) 20 clicks total on both amps to go from min to max. Both start at min and stop at max.

2) 12 clicks on both subs to go from min to 1pm.

3) 6 clicks on both subs to go from min to 10am.

4) Jeff says both subs definitely have the same DSP and is going to contact SpeakerPower.

5) I did pull on the knobs slightly as @basshead81 mentioned, but they didn’t come off easily, so I didn’t force the issue. Don’t want to go breaking stuff haha.

Any other thoughts?

From what I could read so far, I would ask for a third amplifier, known to be in perfect working condition, to be sent to you. You could then swap it out with one of the existing amps (probably the one where you have to turn up the gain) and see what happens. The new third amp should match one of the 2 existing subwoofers.

Just MHO hope this helps.
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post #9715 of 13522 Old 08-23-2018, 07:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh ok just see your other response. Jeff did not disappoint me here.
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post #9716 of 13522 Old 08-23-2018, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FattyMcButterPants View Post
Well guys, thanks for helping me troubleshoot the amps. Sounds like Jeff is going to send me a new one and a return label for the old one. The subs tested within 1db of each other before shipping so something must have happened since then.


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Awesome man! So which one are you going to swap put now? Hmmm, actually that is a very good question...
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Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD
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post #9717 of 13522 Old 08-23-2018, 07:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
As I say: there is sub and there is the room and then there is the sub for the room....coming from experience bro...
Another way of looking at this is that if you want to experience true deep bass, and a subwoofer that has worked well with 99% of users doesn't sound good in your room, then the room is "problematic," and it's unique to you.

IMHO, the last sentence above should be added every time above "wise advice" is uttered, for the 200th time, on this JTR thread.
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My System & Theta Casablanca Mini-Review (CB IVa setup help HERE) Uncontrolled passion for music, and sound.
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post #9718 of 13522 Old 08-23-2018, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by cannga View Post
Another way of looking at this is that if you want to experience true deep bass, and a subwoofer that has worked well with 99% of users doesn't sound good in your room, then the room is "problematic," and it's unique to you.

IMHO, the last sentence above should be added every time above "wise advice" is uttered, for the 200th time, on this JTR thread.
You crack me up man... Please chill. Did you even read the comment that I wrote that in response to? I am not here attacking JTR....Jeez!!

Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD
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post #9719 of 13522 Old 08-23-2018, 07:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
You crack me up man... Please chill. Did you even read the comment that I wrote that in response to? I am not here attacking JTR....Jeez!!
No one is saying you're attacking JTR and I'm "chilling." Just want to provide a counter that, what you write is based on somewhat of a false, or at least incomplete, premise. Especially since you've written it 200 times already LOL.

Your room has problems, and your taste may be different, that's why a subwoofer that works for 99% of users doesn't work there. Have you thought about that 99%?

Regards, Can
My System & Theta Casablanca Mini-Review (CB IVa setup help HERE) Uncontrolled passion for music, and sound.
Interesting Audio Diagrams :-) & High-End Speaker Reviews
JTR Subwoofer Thread I don't always listen to subwoofers, but when I do, it's JTR :-).
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post #9720 of 13522 Old 08-23-2018, 07:41 PM
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Oh ok just see your other response. Jeff did not disappoint me here.
Thanks for chiming in!

I really appreciate what Jeff did here. He must follow along on this thread, because I barely told him anything over email and he offered to replace the amp before I even had to ask. That is great customer service in my book, very proactive, and definitely makes me feel better about things.

Also, I’m relieved the amp isn’t dead or something drastic (which happened four years ago with my PSA subs ironically) so I can still rock on while I wait for the replacement. I feel lucky!

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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
Awesome man! So which one are you going to swap put now? Hmmm, actually that is a very good question...

My guess is the same as @cannga , most likely the high gain amp. I’ll confirm with Jeff before I disassemble anything though.


Related question to everyone: What gain setting range is the most common for the 1400? I feel like I read it’s somewhere between 10-12? My PSA subs always ran between 2-3pm, which was pretty common for those models back in the day.



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