Official JTR Speakers Subwoofer Thread - Page 329 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #9841 of 13441 Old 08-26-2018, 11:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Oh btw, the countdown continues, you have 4 days to pull the trigger for 118HT at $1500 and 2400 at $2100.

Jeff had to admit on Facebook that the price is hard to beat. I suspect he cringes every time I make this announcement. Just like a couple years ago when original 118 went for some ridiculous amount like $1000 or so with the introductory pricing, and I kept making countdown announcements LOL.

As mentioned, we have never seen that price again. Why? Because IMHO he's not making money with these sales!

Regards, Can
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post #9842 of 13441 Old 08-26-2018, 11:29 AM
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Exactly. Both posts deleted. no infractions issued to either part...but if we come back, infractions and thread bans.
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post #9843 of 13441 Old 08-26-2018, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by cannga View Post
Oh btw, the countdown continues, you have 4 days to pull the trigger for 118HT at $1500 and 2400 at $2100.

Jeff had to admit on Facebook that the price is hard to beat. I suspect he cringes every time I make this announcement. Just like a couple years ago when original 118 went for some ridiculous amount like $1000 or so with the introductory pricing, and I kept making countdown announcements LOL.

As mentioned, we have never seen that price again. Why? Because IMHO he's not making money with these sales!
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Set up #1 Speakers LR: Tekton Enzo XL ; Center: Tekton Pendragon Subs (2) 2019 JTR 118HTs
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post #9844 of 13441 Old 08-26-2018, 12:02 PM
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post #9845 of 13441 Old 08-26-2018, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by cannga View Post
Oh btw, the countdown continues, you have 4 days to pull the trigger for 118HT at $1500 and 2400 at $2100.

Jeff had to admit on Facebook that the price is hard to beat. I suspect he cringes every time I make this announcement. Just like a couple years ago when original 118 went for some ridiculous amount like $1000 or so with the introductory pricing, and I kept making countdown announcements LOL.

As mentioned, we have never seen that price again. Why? Because IMHO he's not making money with these sales!
you are killing me with the reminders...I really want to try a 118HT.
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post #9846 of 13441 Old 08-26-2018, 01:10 PM - Thread Starter
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This is the brand new SpeakerPower amp used in the 118HT. Most powerful module to date and at 1200 watts, it's approaching my JTR 1400 in power.

It is quite a jump from 700 watts, explaining the 2-3 dB gain and now making 118HT even more muscular and powerful. I would suspect it's going to have the highest CEA numbers for 20mm-Xmax 18 incher currently available. A result of the very large cabinet size (size *IS* everything in subwoofing), and among the most powerful amp.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
http://www.audioxpress.com/news/icep...module-to-date
ICEpower Announces Its Most Powerful Amplifier Module to Date

ICEpower’s latest amplifier power module, the 1200AS, was designed for live sound and concerts and the Danish company confirms this is their most powerful audio module to date. Based on ICEpower's recent ICEedge class D chip set, the new ICEPower 1200AS incorporates the latest technologies enabling superior sound quality and an ultra-low noise floor (less than 30 μV – 130dB Signal to Noise Ratio). The extremely high audio quality also makes it a superior high-end audio amplifier for demanding consumer applications.

According to ICEpower, the 1200AS exists in two versions: The 1200AS1 with a single channel amplifier and the 1200AS2 with a dual channel amplifier, both channels capable of 1200W into 4Ω and 1400W into 3Ω. The 1200AS1 and 1200AS2 amp modules are designed specifically for high performance PA speakers, line arrays and professional single/dual subwoofers offering higher power in a more compact package than previously available. The core 1200AS amplifier power module combines an amplifier based on ICEpower’s revolutionary Class D ICEedge technology, with a brand new universal mains switch mode power supply with PFC. This includes ErP and Energy Star compliant standby functionality, regulated auxiliary power supplies, wake on signal sense and a DC-bus output.

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post #9847 of 13441 Old 08-26-2018, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
you are killing me with the reminders...I really want to try a 118HT.


Just one?


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post #9848 of 13441 Old 08-26-2018, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Linkwitz Riley View Post
Maybe I missed it, but can anyone tell me if the port(s) on the new Captivator 2400 are a single port design like the photo in post #9548 or the classic full cabinet width 2 port design which is what shows on the JTR website? I like that single port look much better as long as it performs as well (or better) than the 2 port design.
Yup, you missed it...

The new Captivator 2400 will have the single port design like the current 10Hz tuned 2400ULFs:

The 10Hz tuned 2400ULFs:



The new Captivator 2400 is basically the 2400ULF in the 1400's cabinet.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

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post #9849 of 13441 Old 08-26-2018, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Thomasdk1405 View Post
Hmm in that video drivers is not moving much - like this is peace of cake for this sub - impressive !!

What is the Pioneer -13 vs Denon -6/-7 db ? Shouldn't 0.0 db be the same for all if calibrated correctly ? Like 105 db for speeakers and 115 db for subwoofer ?
Oh, that clip is a piece of cake for JTR subs. I can assure you that the drivers do move.

Not all AVRs calibrate to reference level. Denon/Marantz do, but not Pioneer or maybe Yamaha. Therefore, whenever people ask me how loud I was playing, I have to point out the difference in volume.
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Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

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post #9850 of 13441 Old 08-26-2018, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by cannga View Post
Sounds like a good plan, Bob. I think the smaller size is the exact reason why JTR creates 2400. Keeping the lineup sane wrt sizing.

Jeff states on Facebook that the 2400 is smaller and lighter and could be shipped regular FedEx, whereas 2400ULF needs to be shipped freight. I wonder what that difference in shipping cost would be @chucky7 ?
The magic number is 150lb or so. Therefore,

the shipping for the new 2400 is $180 to the West Coast.
the shipping for the 2400ULF is $250 (pallet) to the West Coast.
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Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #9851 of 13441 Old 08-26-2018, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Oh, that clip is a piece of cake for JTR subs. I can assure you that the drivers do move.

Not all AVRs calibrate to reference level. Denon/Marantz do, but not Pioneer or maybe Yamaha. Therefore, whenever people ask me how loud I was playing, I have to point out the difference in volume.


Interesting, I didn’t realize pioneer doesn’t calibrate to reference level. What the heck are they calibrating to then? Haha.


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post #9852 of 13441 Old 08-26-2018, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by BobZealand View Post
A question I have is would I be losing anything important not having that extra 3db at 10hz I honestly have no Idea as I never had a sub that goes to 10hz would it be noticably quieter or would I still get that rumble,tr and port wind Im looking for. Or does having 3db less at 10hz make so little difference that I shouldnt even pay attention to it
If there really is no big enough difference between the two I will gladly buy the new 2400
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Until someone compares the two Cap 2400's side-by-side, we won't know for sure, and I would still be interested in hearing what Jeff has to say on the subject. But, I think that Basshead is probably correct that you wouldn't be able to tell much, if any, difference between the two subwoofers.

There can be content below 15Hz in some movies, but we don't really hear frequencies below about 16Hz even if the frequencies are very loud and even if they are in isolation--such as with a test tone. Those lower frequencies just add more "weight" to the bass that we do hear, and they may create strong tactile sensations that we associate with very low-frequencies.

I do think that there is some value in having subwoofers that can go lower than 16Hz in order to provide that additional bass weight. So, I still see some real value in having subs that can go lower than the Cap 1400, or than the new Cap 118HT. But, how low is low enough is something that I really don't know how to determine.

It seems to me, that once you get under the low teens--13Hz to 14Hz--that any additional increases in bass weight will be pretty incremental, and may not be as noticeable to some of us to start with. So, if cost is an object, as it usually is for most of us, I honestly don't know that many of us would feel that the ULF version will be worth another $600 over the slightly smaller Cap 2400.

I wrote a post right after the new Cap 2400 was announced, remarking that Jeff loves to innovate and to fill what he sees as niches. But, as the history of the Captivators that was posted about a week ago demonstrates, the models evolve over time. A designer has to sort of feel his way along, trying different things to get to where he wants to go. And, sometimes he discovers where he wants to go through that experimentation. Some of that process might be at work with the new Cap 2400, and the improved Cap 118.

To me, the current Cap 2400 and the Cap 2400 ULF are a little too close together in performance. I'm not sure that both models will stay exactly as they are for very long. It seems to me that Jeff will do something else to separate them a little more. If I were guessing, I would say that he will do something else to the Cap 2400 ULF to try to get a little more separation from the Cap 2400. But, that is pure speculation on my part.

In any event, I think it is likely that if the Cap 2400 ULF, with a 10Hz port tune could satisfy you, then the smaller Cap 2400 will be able to satisfy you as well.

Regards,
Mike
Agree with everything Mike said above. I can definitely tell the difference between an 18hz tuned and a 12hz tuned with a flip of a switch and with a foam plug/unplugged on my subs whether the movie/music content has low teen frequency or not. It's the weight and the additional depth or 3D sound a lower tuned sub adds that results in a higher quality sound. I am fortunate to hear lots of bad @ss systems (almost 20 at this point) from AVSers here and there is a reason big bass junkies have systems down to low teen or single digit hertz. People who say it does not make much of a difference with a lower tuned sub generally have not experienced sub that is capable to low teen or lower hertz before. Think about it, why Jeff keeps lower the frequency tune of his ported sub in his line ups? BECAUSE HE CAN . Matter of fact, all JTR ported sub today is 10hz tuned with the exception of the 118ht. There has to be a demand for it. Most people here has at least 2 subs in his/her room and for the majority of us here, we have enough bass headroom for our listening level, so why settle for subs that only tuned to high teen? Remember adding more of high teen tuned subs, the result is still high teen extension subs with more headroom. What a waste if one already has enough bass headroom to start with! Get the 2400ULFs (plural )

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post #9853 of 13441 Old 08-26-2018, 05:40 PM
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Hahaha, for all the help we are trying to give you Bob Zealand between the 2400ulf and 2400.....I get the feeling we might be doing quit the opposite! You might want to start writing hash marks for each sub. In a way, it's a good problem to have.

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post #9854 of 13441 Old 08-26-2018, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by cannga View Post
Oh btw, the countdown continues, you have 4 days to pull the trigger for 118HT at $1500 and 2400 at $2100.

Jeff had to admit on Facebook that the price is hard to beat. I suspect he cringes every time I make this announcement. Just like a couple years ago when original 118 went for some ridiculous amount like $1000 or so with the introductory pricing, and I kept making countdown announcements LOL.

As mentioned, we have never seen that price again. Why? Because IMHO he's not making money with these sales!

This is so true...if you think you will see another price like this again, forget it. I made the silly mistake of only getting one 118 during that intro and had to pay more for the second one.
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post #9855 of 13441 Old 08-26-2018, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Yup, you missed it...

The new Captivator 2400 will have the single port design like the current 10Hz tuned 2400ULFs:

The 10Hz tuned 2400ULFs:



The new Captivator 2400 is basically the 2400ULF in the 1400's cabinet.
Thanks! I was going to have Jeff build me a custom low profile set of cap 4000's but these new 2400's will fit beneath my flat panel display (only place in the room I can put them, but they work well there), so at this price maybe 4 new cap 2400's without losing too much on the low end and a lot easier to move around if necessary (and slightly more power!)
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post #9856 of 13441 Old 08-26-2018, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by FattyMcButterPants View Post
Interesting, I didn’t realize pioneer doesn’t calibrate to reference level. What the heck are they calibrating to then? Haha.
I know, right?

I only found out about it by using the spl meter and tone generator in REW.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #9857 of 13441 Old 08-26-2018, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by cannga View Post
Sounds like a good plan, Bob. I think the smaller size is the exact reason why JTR creates 2400. Keeping the lineup sane wrt sizing.

Jeff states on Facebook that the 2400 is smaller and lighter and could be shipped regular FedEx, whereas 2400ULF needs to be shipped freight. I wonder what that difference in shipping cost would be @chucky7 ?
Thats awesome I feel lucky that Jeff just came out with the new 2400 right when I'm ready to purchase a sub and the great intro price just seals the deal for me
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post #9858 of 13441 Old 08-26-2018, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by toddct View Post
Hahaha, for all the help we are trying to give you Bob Zealand between the 2400ulf and 2400.....I get the feeling we might be doing quit the opposite! You might want to start writing hash marks for each sub. In a way, it's a good problem to have.

Todd
Haha I'll speak to Jeff and see which one he'll recommend I'm sure I'll be happy with either one of them.
Thanks everyone for the help
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post #9859 of 13441 Old 08-26-2018, 11:18 PM
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I know, right?

I only found out about it by using the spl meter and tone generator in REW.
Hi - very strange + puzzled here. I have the Pioneer sc-lx901 and full turn to 0.0 and test tones with the Radio shack + iphone with sla lite app shows the same (more or less to 75 db) but if I launch REW with my UMIK and use tone generator it is a lot louder here with 0.0. Thought it was me doing something wrong

Need to investigate where my real ref. level is then
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post #9860 of 13441 Old 08-26-2018, 11:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Thomasdk1405 View Post
Hi - very strange + puzzled here. I have the Pioneer sc-lx901 and full turn to 0.0 and test tones with the Radio shack + iphone with sla lite app shows the same (more or less to 75 db) but if I launch REW with my UMIK and use tone generator it is a lot louder here with 0.0. Thought it was me doing something wrong

Need to investigate where my real ref. level is then
That's right.

If the AVR calibrates to reference level, then the SPL Meter in REW should measure 75dB and AVR MV + RMS Level dBFS number should add up to -30dB ( under Pink noise, speaker cal, Channel 1, 2 or 3 ). 75dB + 30dB = 105 dB = reference level for individual speakers.



For LFE, the SPL Meter in REW should measure 85dB and AVR MV + RMS Level dBFS number should add up to -30dB ( under Pink noise, full range, 50~100Hz, Channel 4 ). 85dB + 30dB = 115 dB = reference level for LFE.

I get 75dB with the AVR MV @ -16dB and the RMS Level dBFS @ -20dB. This is how I know My Pioneer SC1222-K calibrates 6dB higher than reference.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #9861 of 13441 Old 08-27-2018, 01:31 AM
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Hey @chucky7 I'm actually not sure it's just a Pioneer thing. I went through all this a few months ago on the PSA thread. Both of my Denon AVR's (X1000, 4311ci) calibrate my speakers to about 79dB - when tested post Audyssey using REW and 2 different Umik-1's (1 being CSL calibrated) AND a Dayton IMM-6 mic using the Audio Tools app SPL meter function. I posted it in the PSA thread because I remember Enrico saying that when he was helping @imureh calibrate his SubMersives and PSA speakers that Ray's Denon had set his speakers at 79dB as well, hence himbneeding to set the subs even hotter

Nowadays I let Audyssey do its calibration, as it really does an excellent job in my room, I then go and manually check speaker levels using REW + the umik-1. I usually end up reducing all the speaker channel levels down to 75dB, set the Subs level to 77dB, turn on DynamicEQ, change crossovers to 80hz and I find I don't actually have to continually play with my settings. With my new setup I don't even have to perform the SDT!

Cheers
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TV: Panasonic P65ST60 AVR: Denon X4000 Speakers: PSA MTM-210C (Centre), PSA MTM-210 (Left & Right), PSA MT-110 (Surrounds) Subwoofers: Dual Seaton SubMersives
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post #9862 of 13441 Old 08-27-2018, 01:46 AM
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Hey @chucky7 I'm actually not sure it's just a Pioneer thing. I went through all this a few months ago on the PSA thread. Both of my Denon AVR's (X1000, 4311ci) calibrate my speakers to about 79dB - when tested post Audyssey using REW and 2 different Umik-1's (1 being CSL calibrated) AND a Dayton IMM-6 mic using the Audio Tools app SPL meter function. I posted it in the PSA thread because I remember Enrico saying that when he was helping @imureh calibrate his SubMersives and PSA speakers that Ray's Denon had set his speakers at 79dB as well, hence himbneeding to set the subs even hotter

Nowadays I let Audyssey do its calibration, as it really does an excellent job in my room, I then go and manually check speaker levels using REW + the umik-1. I usually end up reducing all the speaker channel levels down to 75dB, set the Subs level to 77dB, turn on DynamicEQ, change crossovers to 80hz and I find I don't actually have to continually play with my settings. With my new setup I don't even have to perform the SDT!

Cheers
Jamie
Well, I didn't want to believe so but it has been confirmed by several Pioneer users before. I also read that Yamaha AVRs allows the users to tweak what MV @ 0dB is.

I'm sure you have seen what the MCACC does to my FR below 250Hz... Absolutely nothing. If anything, it actually made it worse... It is giving JTR subs a bad name... $%^&

I just can't wait to replace my Pioneer AVR. Hopefully I will get it done within the next 2 months or so.
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Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 08-27-2018 at 03:38 AM.
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post #9863 of 13441 Old 08-27-2018, 04:22 AM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Well, I didn't want to believe so but it has been confirmed by several Pioneer users before. I also read that Yamaha AVRs allows the users to tweak what MV @ 0dB is.

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Oh I believe you mate! I was more pointing out that both of my Denon's calibrate my speakers to 79dB instead of 75dB, and that imureh's Denon X4300 had also set his speakers to 79dB - as noted by Enrico here https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post53824473 In the end I choose to set the levels using REW and the Umik-1 post Audyssey - as is often quoted on here "Trust - but verify"


...and yes - I would definitely like to see what a difference something like Audyssey will have in your space! as I've mentioned before - I would kill for your room gain!!
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TV: Panasonic P65ST60 AVR: Denon X4000 Speakers: PSA MTM-210C (Centre), PSA MTM-210 (Left & Right), PSA MT-110 (Surrounds) Subwoofers: Dual Seaton SubMersives
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post #9864 of 13441 Old 08-27-2018, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Well, I didn't want to believe so but it has been confirmed by several Pioneer users before. I also read that Yamaha AVRs allows the users to tweak what MV @ 0dB is.

I'm sure you have seen what the MCACC does to my FR below 250Hz... Absolutely nothing. If anything, it actually made it worse... It is giving JTR subs a bad name... $%^&

I just can't wait to replace my Pioneer AVR. Hopefully I will get it done within the next 2 months or so.
Yamaha does not have a reference level off set...Denon does.
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post #9865 of 13441 Old 08-27-2018, 06:40 AM
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My Denon X4000 calibrates all my speakers to 75 and Subs to about 83 as confirmed with REW.
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post #9866 of 13441 Old 08-27-2018, 11:01 AM
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I just learned that my REW setup is wrong. I have Umik-1 mic the -18db version. Guide I followed said +9.9 db gain for windows 10 setting but that is wrong according to author of program. Should be 0.0 db gain - no wonder I had problems here since all guides are for the -12 db version.
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post #9867 of 13441 Old 08-27-2018, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Thomasdk1405 View Post
I just learned that my REW setup is wrong. I have Umik-1 mic the -18db version. Guide I followed said +9.9 db gain for windows 10 setting but that is wrong according to author of program. Should be 0.0 db gain - no wonder I had problems here since all guides are for the -12 db version.
I don't think it matters.

My measurement laptop also has the +9.9 db gain for windows 10 setting. I did the sensitivity mod to change my UMIK-1 gain to 0 so that I can measure 120dB+.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 08-27-2018 at 12:13 PM.
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post #9868 of 13441 Old 08-27-2018, 02:15 PM
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Watched a few blu rays over the weekend with the 1400’s, and my not so shocking conclusion is that these things are the real deal!

I watched Hacksaw Ridge for the first time and it did not disappoint. Particularly during the artillery strikes, man were those intense! I also watched about half of The Dark Knight Rises last night, and the amount of TR I got from some of those scenes was noticeably more than I’ve ever had before, and I wasn’t even listening as loud as I have in the past. I’m not entirely sure how to describe the feeling they generated when he flies out of the alley in “The Bat”. I guess I’ll just say it was pressure and TR galore!




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post #9869 of 13441 Old 08-27-2018, 05:05 PM
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Gall Dang, my bank account hates all the stuff I'm learning here. I guess it's time to finally take another step up and or forward, drop the Pioneer line I'm so comfortable with and start exploring Marantz amps. Anything that doesn't show the potential of my JTR subs needs to find another home. I guess I will pick up a Marantz after I get my second 4000ulf. I will run what I find past you guys first though!

Oh, my 2017 Cap 1400's sold, and the first out of the dual 4000ulf's I plan to run is on order!
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post #9870 of 13441 Old 08-27-2018, 05:48 PM
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Gall Dang, my bank account hates all the stuff I'm learning here. I guess it's time to finally take another step up and or forward, drop the Pioneer line I'm so comfortable with and start exploring Marantz amps. Anything that doesn't show the potential of my JTR subs needs to find another home. I guess I will pick up a Marantz after I get my second 4000ulf. I will run what I find past you guys first though!

Oh, my 2017 Cap 1400's sold, and the first out of the dual 4000ulf's I plan to run is on order!


Marantz makes great pre-pro’s, but i’d look elsewhere for amps.
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