Official JTR Speakers Subwoofer Thread - Page 330 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #9871 of 12718 Old 08-27-2018, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by ;56708154
Gall Dang, my bank account hates all the stuff I'm learning here. I guess it's time to finally take another step up and or forward, drop the Pioneer line I'm so comfortable with and start exploring Marantz amps. Anything that doesn't show the potential of my JTR subs needs to find another home. I guess I will pick up a Marantz after I get my second 4000ulf. I will run what I find past you guys first though!



Oh, my 2017 Cap 1400's sold, and the first out of the dual 4000ulf's I plan to run is on order!


Congrats on selling the 1400’s! And double congrats on ordering the Cap 4000!

As far as room correction software goes, just keep in mind it can be a fickle beast. I am by no means an expert, but I would like to share an opinion of mine based on participating in this forum for the past few years. I invite others to jump in as well.

Some people love Audyssey, but I’ve also seen a couple folks, whom I respect, turn their backs on Audyssey in the past few years. There was some debate about it over in the PSA thread a few weeks back, and it was very interesting for those that are thinking about making the switch. From what I’ve seen, people with high efficiency speakers seem to have some issues with Audyssey, claiming it squashes the dynamics of their speakers while making the FR flat. I’m not sure how this translates to other, non HE speakers, as I spend my time exclusively in the PSA/JTR/DIY threads. I just wanted to bring it up before people go blindly into the light.

For a reference point, I myself own a Denon x4000 specifically because it has Audyssey xt32, and had intended for it to replace my pioneer. The x4000 sounds good, but I do prefer the pioneer as it sounds more aggressive. I noticed I like the x4000 better with Audyssey turned off, and I’ve seen others say the same.

Anyway, my point here is, do some research and make sure you understand what you are getting. Audyssey may or may not be an improvement for you. It does work for a lot of people, but apparently not everyone.


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post #9872 of 12718 Old 08-27-2018, 06:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by FattyMcButterPants View Post
As far as room correction software goes, just keep in mind it can be a fickle beast. I am by no means an expert, but I would like to share an opinion of mine based on participating in this forum for the past few years. I invite others to jump in as well.....claiming it squashes the dynamics of their speakers while making the FR flat....
Anyway, my point here is, do some research and make sure you understand what you are getting. Audyssey may or may not be an improvement for you....
Very nice and "measured" post. I have Dirac both with my Theta SSP (where I set correction to be done BELOW the Shroeder/transition frequency of around 400 Hz), and in my wife's car (BMW M3, full frequency 20 Hz-20 kHz correction). In both situations I prefer Dirac off, definitely so in the M3 where full frequency range is corrected and midrange (human voice) very obviously "altered."

A flat electronically "room corrected" freq response is not for everyone. It's obviously a complicated issue and I'm too lazy :-) to enter into discussion of why it is that way for me (but your reason is one that I've seen often, and I don't disagree). That's why I rarely talk about it in the Theta forum where most people swear by it, and even more rarely here. It's one of those "no right, no wrong," personal preference kinds of thing.
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post #9873 of 12718 Old 08-27-2018, 07:39 PM
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This 2400ULF delivers a brutal bass. You can measure it all you want, but until you've felt it you can't understand it. I mean it's brutal and I haven't even touched upon its potential. This is a "wow" experience. I'm scared. I used to be the man of my home. Not anymore.
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post #9874 of 12718 Old 08-27-2018, 08:14 PM
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Marantz makes great pre-pro’s, but i’d look elsewhere for amps.
Interesting, I'd like to hear more on this! Pm me if you don't want to post it.

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Originally Posted by FattyMcButterPants View Post
Congrats on selling the 1400’s! And double congrats on ordering the Cap 4000!

As far as room correction software goes, just keep in mind it can be a fickle beast. I am by no means an expert, but I would like to share an opinion of mine based on participating in this forum for the past few years. I invite others to jump in as well.

Some people love Audyssey, but I’ve also seen a couple folks, whom I respect, turn their backs on Audyssey in the past few years. There was some debate about it over in the PSA thread a few weeks back, and it was very interesting for those that are thinking about making the switch. From what I’ve seen, people with high efficiency speakers seem to have some issues with Audyssey, claiming it squashes the dynamics of their speakers while making the FR flat. I’m not sure how this translates to other, non HE speakers, as I spend my time exclusively in the PSA/JTR/DIY threads. I just wanted to bring it up before people go blindly into the light.

For a reference point, I myself own a Denon x4000 specifically because it has Audyssey xt32, and had intended for it to replace my pioneer. The x4000 sounds good, but I do prefer the pioneer as it sounds more aggressive. I noticed I like the x4000 better with Audyssey turned off, and I’ve seen others say the same.

Anyway, my point here is, do some research and make sure you understand what you are getting. Audyssey may or may not be an improvement for you. It does work for a lot of people, but apparently not everyone.


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Thanks man!

I was thinking of working towards this one

http://us.marantz.com/us/products/pa...oductId=SR8012

However when I'm ready I definitely plan to discuss here with you guys first before making another 3k plus purchase!
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post #9875 of 12718 Old 08-27-2018, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by <Vibe> View Post
Interesting, I'd like to hear more on this! Pm me if you don't want to post it.



Thanks man!

I was thinking of working towards this one

http://us.marantz.com/us/products/pa...oductId=SR8012

However when I'm ready I definitely plan to discuss here with you guys first before making another 3k plus purchase!


just bang for your buck. The 8077 is $2400 list and gives 150w/channels (2 channels driven iirc). ATI, Emotiva, Outlaw and Monoprice are all prices at or below with better performance. if you up your budget a little more, you can get much more performance from D-sonic or ATI hypex

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post #9876 of 12718 Old 08-28-2018, 03:34 AM
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Marantz makes great pre-pro’s, but i’d look elsewhere for amps.
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just bang for your buck. The 8077 is $2400 list and gives 150w/channels (2 channels driven iirc). ATI, Emotiva, Outlaw and Monoprice are all prices at or below with better performance. if you up your budget a little more, you can get much more performance from D-sonic or ATI hypex

my .02
Thanks for the advice!

I might have to take a look at that Emotiva RMC-1 when it finally gets released. I like to keep the amp and processor in one. Dang 5k for a receiver is something I never in my life thought of doing lol.
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post #9877 of 12718 Old 08-28-2018, 03:51 AM
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Oh, that clip is a piece of cake for JTR subs. I can assure you that the drivers do move.

Not all AVRs calibrate to reference level. Denon/Marantz do, but not Pioneer or maybe Yamaha. Therefore, whenever people ask me how loud I was playing, I have to point out the difference in volume.


Are you not able to manually calibrate it so that -0 is reference?


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post #9878 of 12718 Old 08-28-2018, 09:30 AM
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Thanks for the advice!

I might have to take a look at that Emotiva RMC-1 when it finally gets released. I like to keep the amp and processor in one. Dang 5k for a receiver is something I never in my life thought of doing lol.
Before you spring on an amp, monoprice is rumored to releasing a 400 watt amp that will likely be 5 channel. Monoprice currently has a 7 channel 200 watt amp that performs well and is clean. Emotiva has a quirk when using XLR in that it reverses phase, so research that issue in forums. If you do go separates instead of an integrated AVR, check out Anthem. Anthem pre/pro uses ARC which is only surpassed by Dirac in terms of calibration. Also, HDMI 2.1 will be coming out soon. HDMI 2.1 is a significant upgrade over HDMI 2.0 in my opinion and will be somewhat future proofed. HDMI capable receivers, pre/pro will provide eArc which allows a single HDMI and will eliminate lip sync issues, something I disdain. It also provides 8k pass through and has other benefits in terms of colors.

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post #9879 of 12718 Old 08-28-2018, 09:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Thats awesome I feel lucky that Jeff just came out with the new 2400 right when I'm ready to purchase a sub and the great intro price just seals the deal for me
Yes the primary appeal of the 2400 non ULF is the size. It's actually the SMALLEST 10 Hz subwoofer on the market right now. Jeff has to keep this because JTR doesn't want to "size" itself out of the market. I mean it's pretty huge already.

Without the sale, 2400 ULF is tough competition, being only a couple hundred more. With the sale, you have a perfect storm: dirt cheap :-) monster, great WAF!

Speaking of perfect storm, the countdown continues: $2100 for JTR 2400, $1500 for JTR 118HT. This should help with the money loss from selling your current subwoofer.
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post #9880 of 12718 Old 08-28-2018, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by <Vibe> View Post
Gall Dang, my bank account hates all the stuff I'm learning here. I guess it's time to finally take another step up and or forward, drop the Pioneer line I'm so comfortable with and start exploring Marantz amps. Anything that doesn't show the potential of my JTR subs needs to find another home. I guess I will pick up a Marantz after I get my second 4000ulf. I will run what I find past you guys first though!

Oh, my 2017 Cap 1400's sold, and the first out of the dual 4000ulf's I plan to run is on order!
Quote:
Originally Posted by FattyMcButterPants View Post
Congrats on selling the 1400’s! And double congrats on ordering the Cap 4000!

As far as room correction software goes, just keep in mind it can be a fickle beast. I am by no means an expert, but I would like to share an opinion of mine based on participating in this forum for the past few years. I invite others to jump in as well.

Some people love Audyssey, but I’ve also seen a couple folks, whom I respect, turn their backs on Audyssey in the past few years. There was some debate about it over in the PSA thread a few weeks back, and it was very interesting for those that are thinking about making the switch. From what I’ve seen, people with high efficiency speakers seem to have some issues with Audyssey, claiming it squashes the dynamics of their speakers while making the FR flat. I’m not sure how this translates to other, non HE speakers, as I spend my time exclusively in the PSA/JTR/DIY threads. I just wanted to bring it up before people go blindly into the light.

For a reference point, I myself own a Denon x4000 specifically because it has Audyssey xt32, and had intended for it to replace my pioneer. The x4000 sounds good, but I do prefer the pioneer as it sounds more aggressive. I noticed I like the x4000 better with Audyssey turned off, and I’ve seen others say the same.

Anyway, my point here is, do some research and make sure you understand what you are getting. Audyssey may or may not be an improvement for you. It does work for a lot of people, but apparently not everyone.


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Very nice and "measured" post. I have Dirac both with my Theta SSP (where I set correction to be done BELOW the Shroeder/transition frequency of around 400 Hz), and in my wife's car (BMW M3, full frequency 20 Hz-20 kHz correction). In both situations I prefer Dirac off, definitely so in the M3 where full frequency range is corrected and midrange (human voice) very obviously "altered."

A flat electronically "room corrected" freq response is not for everyone. It's obviously a complicated issue and I'm too lazy :-) to enter into discussion of why it is that way for me (but your reason is one that I've seen often, and I don't disagree). That's why I rarely talk about it in the Theta forum where most people swear by it, and even more rarely here. It's one of those "no right, no wrong," personal preference kinds of thing.
FWIW, YMMV, and all that jazz up front, I have owned 4-5 different Denon/Marantz processors over the past 8 years since my HT was first functional. I have watched the advent of xt32 promise me a better outcome, and then subsequently in the last year and a half the new audyssey "App" that finally allows some customization to their target flat freq. response. TBH, it wasn't until this app came out that I could even find audyssey tolerable in the least bit. A well treated and laid out room trumps Auto REQ software every time.

As @cannga says above, it's not for everyone. I now run an Anthem processor and do in fact use their version of REQ called "ARC" and have found a decent amount of success in doing so, but I too only correct up to 500hz for my room, leaving the rest alone. You see, the human ear is very good at "Hearing through the room" This is where too many times people get way to hung up on trying to get the best response on a graph, and forget to just listen to what their ears are telling them.

** Now I am not completely advocating for no room correction here, as if your space needs dire work to the response, it can do magic. But if you are starting out in a decently treated space, with decent enough speakers, placed in good locations the benefits start to wane a little. now in the BASS area, I find equalization almost essential. Position is key, but a few small filtered cuts here and there and you can have yourself an amazing response that finds no need for additional AUTO eq. There are many ways to accomplish this, and the certain adjustments on a pair of 4000ulf's can probably get you 80% of the way there, but if you want the additional 20, something of the many DSP options is almost a must.
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post #9881 of 12718 Old 08-28-2018, 09:53 AM
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Anthem pre/pro uses ARC which is only surpassed by Dirac, which is only surpassed by Room Perfect which is only surpassed by Trinnov in terms of calibration,
There, I fixed it for you ^^^^
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post #9882 of 12718 Old 08-28-2018, 12:24 PM
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Are you not able to manually calibrate it so that -0 is reference?
AFAIK,

Audyssey somewhat calibrates to reference level but does not allow manual adjustment.
MCACC doesn't calibrate to reference level and does not allow manual adjustment.
YPAO doesn't calibrate to reference level but allows manual adjustment.

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post #9883 of 12718 Old 08-28-2018, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
AFAIK,


Audyssey somewhat calibrates to reference level but does not allow manual adjustment.
MCACC doesn't calibrate to reference level and does not allow manual adjustment.
YPAO doesn't calibrate to reference level but allows manual adjustment.
You can change speaker levels in the setup - but - today I played with REW and almost all my speakers say 82 db when using the 0.0 db volume setting and the -30 db in tone generator. My front left was 83,5 db here - that is 8,5 db off to 75 db and in menu it was -4,5. I could not adjust to -13 db !! So guess that us Pioneer people can forget about having 0.0 as reference level - also unable to find this in the manual that they state something like this - I'm just used to crank volume to 0.0 when home alone - but not with this Pioneer.
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post #9884 of 12718 Old 08-28-2018, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
AFAIK,


Audyssey somewhat calibrates to reference level but does not allow manual adjustment.
MCACC doesn't calibrate to reference level and does not allow manual adjustment.
YPAO doesn't calibrate to reference level but allows manual adjustment.
All that is needed in any of those cases is a simple spl meter, and a demo disc like spears and munsil, atmos demo disc or the like and any system can be calibrated to reference. If you aren't using audyssey, then you can even use the internal test tones of the receiver to calibrate to reference. You just have to determine the -0dBFS of that the test tone, (-25dBFS for Denon/Marantz units) and you can set all your trims to that specific dB level to which master volume (-0.0) would then be reference. Again for D+M units, that would be 75dB c-weighted reading on the spl meter.

You should NOT use the internal test tone once again if you have audyssey engaged as the test tone is reproduced pre-audyssey correction therefore rendering it inaccurate, especially if audyssey had to do a ton of work to your response.
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post #9885 of 12718 Old 08-28-2018, 12:46 PM
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You can change speaker levels in the setup - but - today I played with REW and almost all my speakers say 82 db when using the 0.0 db volume setting and the -30 db in tone generator. My front left was 83,5 db here - that is 8,5 db off to 75 db and in menu it was -4,5. I could not adjust to -13 db !! So guess that us Pioneer people can forget about having 0.0 as reference level - also unable to find this in the manual that they state something like this - I'm just used to crank volume to 0.0 when home alone - but not with this Pioneer.
I didn't post this in my last post as I know for a fact all the above irt audyssey. now IIRC with pioneer, their internal test tone you would calibrate to 85dB. I am pretty sure I have read that elsewhere around here before.

Being on an anthem, my calibrated system actually comes out to where -10 on the MV is what equates to reference. So, any time I quote how close I am to actual reference, I adjust accordingly so as to not confuse anyone. More important than -0.0 being actual reference is all your speakers are in-line with each other. "reference" is merely a goal to allow us to get a frame of understanding where we all actually listen from an spl standpoint, if you weren't on this site comparing listening levels, it would be a completely arbitrary number.
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Guys, what I meant to say is,

Audyssey automatically calibrates to reference for the users. The user can not tailor during Audyssey set up.
MCACC does not automatically calibrate to reference. The user cannot tailor during MCACC set up.
YPAO does not automatically calibrate to reference. The user can tailor the volume during YPAO set up.

Of course after ARC, users can manually adjust thru channel level setting.

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post #9887 of 12718 Old 08-28-2018, 01:09 PM
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Guys, what I meant to say is,

Audyssey automatically calibrates to reference for the users. The user can not tailor during Audyssey set up.
MCACC does not automatically calibrate to reference. The user cannot tailor during MCACC set up.
YPAO does not automatically calibrate to reference. The user can tailor the volume during YPAO set up.

Of course after ARC, users can manually adjust thru channel level setting.


Yes. I was talking about with your level settings.

Run your avr calibration. Then after, set the volume to -0, and play the the test tones while setting all your speakers to 75db with the level settings of each channel, and your sub however high you want. They you would be calibrating -0 as reference.


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post #9888 of 12718 Old 08-28-2018, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrazda View Post
Yes. I was talking about with your level settings.

Run your avr calibration. Then after, set the volume to -0, and play the the test tones while setting all your speakers to 75db with the level settings of each channel, and your sub however high you want. They you would be calibrating -0 as reference.


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Not how you want to do it as I explained above, at least for audyssey equipped AVR's. If you are leaving the room EQ on, to do it 100% correct, you must use external test tones as the internal ones do not take into account the newly adjusted responses of the speakers. If you simply run audyssey for speaker distances and ballpark levels then dis-engage it, then you CAN use the internal test tones.

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post #9889 of 12718 Old 08-28-2018, 03:47 PM
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Why not just use REW generator and SPL meter?


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Awesome news....

Got email from Jeff, my new 118Ht's will be shipping next week
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post #9891 of 12718 Old 08-28-2018, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by mpk1970 View Post
Awesome news....



Got email from Jeff, my new 118Ht's will be shipping next week


Cancel it now! Breaking news! SVS SB4000 named the world’s top subwoofer!

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post #9892 of 12718 Old 08-28-2018, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
All that is needed in any of those cases is a simple spl meter, and a demo disc like spears and munsil, atmos demo disc or the like and any system can be calibrated to reference. If you aren't using audyssey, then you can even use the internal test tones of the receiver to calibrate to reference. You just have to determine the -0dBFS of that the test tone, (-25dBFS for Denon/Marantz units) and you can set all your trims to that specific dB level to which master volume (-0.0) would then be reference. Again for D+M units, that would be 75dB c-weighted reading on the spl meter.

You should NOT use the internal test tone once again if you have audyssey engaged as the test tone is reproduced pre-audyssey correction therefore rendering it inaccurate, especially if audyssey had to do a ton of work to your response.
Hi, I don't use audyssey, but because the klipsch speakers have high sensitivity and in general give out more than other speakers, 0db on the receiver puts speaker test tone on average 78db instead of the 75db, I didn't want to apply a bunch of negative trim to each speakers, I just made sure tweaks to match each other at 78db. Is there any problem in doing so?

The recent disney and marvel movies come out with quiet mixes now it has been annoying to have to go higher than -10db, but sometimes necessary. For example, The Last Jedi needed it's volume turned up a more than most
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post #9893 of 12718 Old 08-29-2018, 03:03 AM
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So ive been lurking on this thread for months, specifically everyday the last 3 weeks since the new captivators with their introductory pricing have come out. So its about time I ask your opinions....
I apologize that this will sound a little like the gentlemen who was wondering wether or not he should upgrade his 2 pb16 ultras; but my situation is a littlw different.
I have had 1 pb16 ultra (one of the first customers to get it delivered) with the intentions to add a second down the road when funds could allow.... That time to add a second sub is now! I have been 95 percent happy with the pb16, it is really nice, but I keep hearing all these mind blowing things about the captivators!!
I was always thinking about the 2400ulf, but seeing the new cap2400 in the 1400 box is what im definitely leaning towards now.
So.... My options would be simply add another pb16 with returning customer 5% off for $2375.
Or buy a gloss black cap2400 to match my pb16 for $2800 (intro price, 500 paint, and 180 shipping)
In emailing Jeff, he thought that if I had the pb16 in extended mode, the cap2400 would integrate fairly well with it....
Another option would be to sell pb16 for who knows how much of a loss?? And buy two cap2400s for $4600 out the door..... (wouldn't need the gloss black, if im not trying to match my pb16)
My room is a dedicated theater room under my garage. Carpet on slab, and about 21'x22' (I know basically a box and not ideal) Both subs would be on front wall flanking the screen. Possibly could have 1 sub upfront, like front left; and one sub back right.
Dont know if this matters, but I will be adding 4 crowson actuators next spring!

So... do you think 1 cap2400 and 1 pb16 would work/sound well enough together? I dont have rew(or anything similar) yet, but plan on it soon.
Is the cap2400 really going to blow me away compared to the pb16?? (People seem to say price to performance wise jtr or psa is alot better than svs now, but looking at cea numbers for projected cap2400 and pb16, doesnt seem to be a massive difference??? It is an 18" vs a 15.5" though. And I wish I did but I dont have space for the 4000ulf.... I've toyed with the 118ht as well for more mid bass, but I really love the low tactile feel!!

Anyways, thanks for induring my long and kinda rambling post!

What are your guys thoughts/what would you do in adding a second sub??
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post #9894 of 12718 Old 08-29-2018, 03:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Dhandmg View Post
So ive been lurking on this thread for months, specifically everyday the last 3 weeks since the new captivators with their introductory pricing have come out. So its about time I ask your opinions....
I apologize that this will sound a little like the gentlemen who was wondering wether or not he should upgrade his 2 pb16 ultras; but my situation is a littlw different.
I have had 1 pb16 ultra (one of the first customers to get it delivered) with the intentions to add a second down the road when funds could allow.... That time to add a second sub is now! I have been 95 percent happy with the pb16, it is really nice, but I keep hearing all these mind blowing things about the captivators!!
I was always thinking about the 2400ulf, but seeing the new cap2400 in the 1400 box is what im definitely leaning towards now.
So.... My options would be simply add another pb16 with returning customer 5% off for $2375.
Or buy a gloss black cap2400 to match my pb16 for $2800 (intro price, 500 paint, and 180 shipping)
In emailing Jeff, he thought that if I had the pb16 in extended mode, the cap2400 would integrate fairly well with it....
Another option would be to sell pb16 for who knows how much of a loss?? And buy two cap2400s for $4600 out the door..... (wouldn't need the gloss black, if im not trying to match my pb16)
My room is a dedicated theater room under my garage. Carpet on slab, and about 21'x22' (I know basically a box and not ideal) Both subs would be on front wall flanking the screen. Possibly could have 1 sub upfront, like front left; and one sub back right.
Dont know if this matters, but I will be adding 4 crowson actuators next spring!

So... do you think 1 cap2400 and 1 pb16 would work/sound well enough together? I dont have rew(or anything similar) yet, but plan on it soon.
Is the cap2400 really going to blow me away compared to the pb16?? (People seem to say price to performance wise jtr or psa is alot better than svs now, but looking at cea numbers for projected cap2400 and pb16, doesnt seem to be a massive difference??? It is an 18" vs a 15.5" though. And I wish I did but I dont have space for the 4000ulf.... I've toyed with the 118ht as well for more mid bass, but I really love the low tactile feel!!

Anyways, thanks for induring my long and kinda rambling post!

What are your guys thoughts/what would you do in adding a second sub??
I can't speak for the others, but from what I have read and seen including my own opinion. Most would like to see you sell the pb16 and go with dual matching 2400's.

However, on a second note I've have yet to see Jeff give out false info, mislead or steer anyone wrong. If he says it will work then I believe it will work.

What I would do, is strike a deal with Jeff, get the one at intro price under the condition that your buying two, but you may get the other one after you see how the svs and JTR play together. If you decide to pull the eject button on the svs, then you order your second 2400. The only difference that can hurt you and I know this for a fact is that it is cheaper on the customer for Jeff to ship both than seperate. In my situation shipping one 4000ulf is only $50 cheaper than shipping two. So talk to him and see what he can do for you!
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post #9895 of 12718 Old 08-29-2018, 03:44 AM
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@ Chucky7

Hey if you wouldn't mind, could you please make one of your charts comparing the data bass numbers of the svs pb16 to the new JTR 2400?
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post #9896 of 12718 Old 08-29-2018, 04:00 AM
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@ Chucky7

Hey if you wouldn't mind, could you please make one of your charts comparing the data bass numbers of the svs pb16 to the new JTR 2400?
I don't think data-Bass has tested either of those yet

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
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post #9897 of 12718 Old 08-29-2018, 05:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhandmg View Post
So ive been lurking on this thread for months, specifically everyday the last 3 weeks since the new captivators with their introductory pricing have come out. So its about time I ask your opinions....
I apologize that this will sound a little like the gentlemen who was wondering wether or not he should upgrade his 2 pb16 ultras; but my situation is a littlw different.
I have had 1 pb16 ultra (one of the first customers to get it delivered) with the intentions to add a second down the road when funds could allow.... That time to add a second sub is now! I have been 95 percent happy with the pb16, it is really nice, but I keep hearing all these mind blowing things about the captivators!!
I was always thinking about the 2400ulf, but seeing the new cap2400 in the 1400 box is what im definitely leaning towards now.
So.... My options would be simply add another pb16 with returning customer 5% off for $2375.
Or buy a gloss black cap2400 to match my pb16 for $2800 (intro price, 500 paint, and 180 shipping)
In emailing Jeff, he thought that if I had the pb16 in extended mode, the cap2400 would integrate fairly well with it....
Another option would be to sell pb16 for who knows how much of a loss?? And buy two cap2400s for $4600 out the door..... (wouldn't need the gloss black, if im not trying to match my pb16)
My room is a dedicated theater room under my garage. Carpet on slab, and about 21'x22' (I know basically a box and not ideal) Both subs would be on front wall flanking the screen. Possibly could have 1 sub upfront, like front left; and one sub back right.
Dont know if this matters, but I will be adding 4 crowson actuators next spring!

So... do you think 1 cap2400 and 1 pb16 would work/sound well enough together? I dont have rew(or anything similar) yet, but plan on it soon.
Is the cap2400 really going to blow me away compared to the pb16?? (People seem to say price to performance wise jtr or psa is alot better than svs now, but looking at cea numbers for projected cap2400 and pb16, doesnt seem to be a massive difference??? It is an 18" vs a 15.5" though. And I wish I did but I dont have space for the 4000ulf.... I've toyed with the 118ht as well for more mid bass, but I really love the low tactile feel!!

Anyways, thanks for induring my long and kinda rambling post!

What are your guys thoughts/what would you do in adding a second sub??


I was in your same situation when I got my second pb16. Except I was looking at the 1400 because the new 2400 wasn’t available. I recently considered switching agai. When the 2400 replaced the 1400. But again decided against it. For me, there just isn’t enough benefit to warrant any cont if monetary loss. With either the 1400, or new 2400, I would have decent gains below 16hz, which is a very small percentage of use. The 1400 does have some benefit above 30hz, and the pb16 has benefits from 16-30hz. None of these are better than the other across the entire usable frequency range. I also like my equiptment to match, and therefore would only ever have 2 matching subs. I don’t think many, if any have had single, or dual pb16’s, and them switched to a single or dual 1400, and that for sure hasn’t been done with the new 2400. So I don’t think anyone here, has ever compared the pb16, 1400, and/or 2400, side by side. You won’t fine anyone in here that says the pb16 is better, I can guarantee you that. But just look at the numbers for the 1400, and pb16 and make your decision. Just google pb16 measurements, and I believe audioholics has test numbers. You can find the cap 1400 numbers here. You will see that neither is better across the board. The 2400 may gain a little more below 16hz, and may lose a little above 30hz, making it less appealing to me because now more of the gain will be below 16hz than with the 1400, and there just isn’t enough sub 16hz material in day to day movie watching. You have to seek it out, and intentional play it.


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post #9898 of 12718 Old 08-29-2018, 05:31 AM
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@Dhandmg , what js it exactly that you feel you are missing out on with the PB16?


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Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser
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post #9899 of 12718 Old 08-29-2018, 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted by jamiebosco View Post
I don't think data-Bass has tested either of those yet
Your probably right but I bet Chucky does or knows where to find it! Give him a little, lets see what he turns up. That guy is on this stuff like white on rice!
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post #9900 of 12718 Old 08-29-2018, 07:17 AM
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hah yes he is The Chart Master!
This should hold you over till he can make it pretty





SVS PB16U 2-port numbers from Audioholics https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofe...r/measurements
12.hz - 89.1dB
16hz - 109.1dB
20hz - 112.3dB
25hz - 115.5dB
31.5hz - 118dB
40hz - 118.8dB
50hz - 118.4dB
63hz - 117.1dB
80hz - 115dB
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TV: Panasonic P65ST60 AVR: Denon 4311ci Speakers: PSA MTM-210C (Centre), PSA MTM-210 (Left & Right), PSA MT-110 (Surrounds) Subwoofers: Dual Seaton SubMersives
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