Official JTR Speakers Subwoofer Thread - Page 338 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #10111 of 12685 Old 09-06-2018, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpk1970 View Post
My 2 new JTR 118HTs Subs just shipped today


Congratulations! You may be the first (or one of the first) to be receiving the new 2019 118HTs. Looking forward to hearing your listening impressions. Btw, how big is the room where these subs will live? Also please try to post some pics if time allows. I believe the port size is expected to be slightly larger with the 2019 model.

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post #10112 of 12685 Old 09-06-2018, 11:21 PM
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I have a JTR CAP 1400 in Black Oak Veener for sale if anyone is looking. Please PM for details.
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post #10113 of 12685 Old 09-07-2018, 05:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tojo_m View Post
Congratulations! You may be the first (or one of the first) to be receiving the new 2019 118HTs. Looking forward to hearing your listening impressions. Btw, how big is the room where these subs will live? Also please try to post some pics if time allows. I believe the port size is expected to be slightly larger with the 2019 model.
I've got about 4000 cu of space in my "Florida" room, 35-40ft length x 14 ft wide
I'll def get some pics posted up
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post #10114 of 12685 Old 09-07-2018, 08:15 AM - Thread Starter
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I have a JTR CAP 1400 in Black Oak Veener for sale if anyone is looking. Please PM for details.
Are you doing what I think you might be doing?! If so congrats.

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post #10115 of 12685 Old 09-07-2018, 08:36 AM
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Are you doing what I think you might be doing?! If so congrats.

Yep, making some room.


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post #10116 of 12685 Old 09-07-2018, 08:36 AM
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post #10117 of 12685 Old 09-07-2018, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpk1970 View Post
I've got about 4000 cu of space in my "Florida" room, 35-40ft length x 14 ft wide
I'll def get some pics posted up
Woah... I have seen the pictures of your HT area, but I didn't realize it's that big...

I am glad you went with the Cap 118HTs. They work perfectly for that room.
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post #10118 of 12685 Old 09-07-2018, 12:45 PM
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Can someone please comment on the paper cone driver of the 118HT.

What kind of characteristics does it give a subwoofer. I think it’s supposed to be light weight and efficient and also more “musical”.

Tactile response?

Thanks.
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post #10119 of 12685 Old 09-07-2018, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSignal View Post
Can someone please comment on the paper cone driver of the 118HT.

What kind of characteristics does it give a subwoofer. I think it’s supposed to be light weight and efficient and also more “musical”.

Tactile response?

Thanks.
The 118HT driver is more PA oriented and has higher efficiency up top - capable of higher output from 40Hz and above. Some might consider this as "punchier".

The 2400/2400ULF/4000ULF driver is more robust. Its higher excursion allows more output below 32Hz.

However, since normal music just don't have that much content below 30Hz. The 118HT might fit more of what people expect from the bass in music.

All JTR subs are very musical. The adjectives I see all the time from people who just got JTR subs, or those who own other brands, are how "tight" and "controlled" the JTR subs are. It's as if people didn't expect the JTR subs to be equally adept at music. Hence my reference of "Hulk doing cirque du soleil". People tend to forget that JTR subs were ranked #1 for moves and #2 for music at those shootout GTGs.

Jeff designed the 118HT and the 2400 to produce industry leading TR. Since the 2400 driver can produce higher output down low, the subs with the 2400 driver will provide more weight than the 118HT in TR.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 09-07-2018 at 09:50 PM.
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post #10120 of 12685 Old 09-07-2018, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
The 118HT driver is more PA oriented and has higher efficiency up top - capable of higher output from 40Hz and above. Some might consider this as "punchier".

The 2400/2400ULF/4000ULF driver is more robust. Its higher excursion allows more output below 32Hz.

However, since normal music just don't have that much content below 30Hz. The 118HT might fit more of what people expect from the bass in music.

All JTR subs are very musical. The adjectives I see all the time from people who just got JTR subs, or those who own other brands, are how "tight" and "controlled" the JTR subs are. It's as if people didn't expect the JTR subs to be equally adept at music. Hence my reference of "Hulk doing cirque du soleil". People tend to forget that JTR subs were ranked #1 for moves and #2 for music at those shootout GTGs,

Jeff designed the 118HT and the 2400 to produce industry leading TR. Since the 2400 driver can produce higher output down low, the subs with the 2400 driver will provide more weight than the 118HT in TR.
Totally agree with everything you said Chucky. Before purchasing my 2400ULF (early days of this model) I was concerned it would be a slightly more capable version of one of those "flappy, noise boxes" from the big box stores.... think those cars you hear that are BUZZ BUZZ BUZZ. The 2400 ULF couldn't be further from one of those type subs.

The driver is built like a tank. I think it has truck tire as the surround. Very sturdy. I think (I'm no expert) that the mechanical structure of the driver gives the JTR sub incredible accuracy. Other companies use electronic means to keep their drivers in line, JTR uses the driver itself. The result is a very musical sub, indeed!

I know the original poster asked about the 118HT which I have never heard but I feel Jeff wouldn't create something that doesn't live up to his main objective - manufacture the highest, most accurate output sub at a given price point. If I didn't already have a 2400ULF in my theater, I wouldn't hesitate to get a 118HT. Maybe 2!

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post #10121 of 12685 Old 09-07-2018, 11:28 PM
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So I popped in Hans Zimmer: Live in Prague tonight and watched the second half through without skipping parts. Chapter 33, while isn't particularity musical, has this awesome ominous rumble to it combined with the choir. This chapter is while Hans is discussing his Batman experience. Anyone know how to tell what frequency makes up the rumble?
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post #10122 of 12685 Old 09-08-2018, 05:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwaggs View Post
So I popped in Hans Zimmer: Live in Prague tonight and watched the second half through without skipping parts. Chapter 33, while isn't particularity musical, has this awesome ominous rumble to it combined with the choir. This chapter is while Hans is discussing his Batman experience. Anyone know how to tell what frequency makes up the rumble?



Maybe the RTA in REW? - I think I recall the scene you're talking about, next time I fire up REW I'll check a few scenes in Hans Zimmer: Live in Prague


The scene I have often mentioned in HZ:LiP is at 1hr34m - there is a loud deep bass note played. I had watched HZ:LiP quite a few times with my 4xSVS PB-2000's but the first time I played it with my Seaton SubM's - damn! - that scene made my windows and roof shake, and my daughter (a future bass-head!) looked at me and said something like "woah - that made my eyeballs wobble"
The room is lightly constructed so I don't get much low-bass room gain, my PB-2000s rolled off very quickly at around their 19hz port tune. The Seaton's (used in PGM1/19hz mode) are good to around 20hz but roll off much slower, so I'm guessing the note at 1h34m is somewhere in the 10-20hz range (?) and that's why it didn't stand out that much with the SVS's - I would LOVE to experience this concert with some 2400ULF or 4000ULF beasts in a room with good room gain like @chucky7 's!

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post #10123 of 12685 Old 09-08-2018, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
The 118HT driver is more PA oriented and has higher efficiency up top - capable of higher output from 40Hz and above. Some might consider this as "punchier".

The 2400/2400ULF/4000ULF driver is more robust. Its higher excursion allows more output below 32Hz.

However, since normal music just don't have that much content below 30Hz. The 118HT might fit more of what people expect from the bass in music.

All JTR subs are very musical. The adjectives I see all the time from people who just got JTR subs, or those who own other brands, are how "tight" and "controlled" the JTR subs are. It's as if people didn't expect the JTR subs to be equally adept at music. Hence my reference of "Hulk doing cirque du soleil". People tend to forget that JTR subs were ranked #1 for moves and #2 for music at those shootout GTGs.

Jeff designed the 118HT and the 2400 to produce industry leading TR. Since the 2400 driver can produce higher output down low, the subs with the 2400 driver will provide more weight than the 118HT in TR.
Great writeup, thanks. I feel there was not much talk of 118HT (except the recent introductory price of the more upgraded amp 2019 model, which IS a great deal).

Most of what I found on this large thread, is most people own the Cap1400 or 2400, (why not get the next best thing from 118HT for a bit more). From what I have read, the 118HT is a favorite amongst reviews and GTGs. It seems like the 118HT great for music and moderate movie watching for those who do not plan run higher than normal bass SPL.

It will be interesting with the revamped 2019 line up which model will become more popular.
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post #10124 of 12685 Old 09-08-2018, 10:05 AM
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Wondering when data-bass will get a chance to test out and publish the measurements for the two new 2019 subs. However, based on the charts that Jeff published earlier(2018 vs 2019 118HT) and chucky’s tables, there may be no surprise with data-bass measurements.

------------------
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post #10125 of 12685 Old 09-08-2018, 10:08 AM
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Sold my pb12-plus yesterday (for $650). It went in less than a day of placing the ad. Now I’m subwoofer less. And the long wait for the JTRs really begins.... My elementary school aged kids were in shock to see the empty subwoofer place. They were like “what?? No more subwoofers for two full months? Not fair!”... talk about first world problems.

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post #10126 of 12685 Old 09-08-2018, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiebosco View Post
Maybe the RTA in REW? - I think I recall the scene you're talking about, next time I fire up REW I'll check a few scenes in Hans Zimmer: Live in Prague
I took your suggestion and played around with REW this morning and learned something very interesting I thought I would share.

I captured some peak spectrum graphs using the RTA function of REW like you suggested (thanks for the lead! )

Each graph is the peak measured during the passage along with the noise floor (measurement taken with a quiet room). This is my normal system tune that I use for listening to music and movies. MV at -10 (I usually listen at -5 but this is more measurement friendly for the rest of the house). Pay no attention to the actual volume, my setup is not volume calibrated. It is a calibrated UMIK, however.

Looks like the chaper 33 rumble is in the 14-16 hz range. Subsequently, I watched several other passages using the live view of the RTA and there are several passages with this 14-16hz rumble at various volumes.

Looks like the strong, house rattling passage at 1:34 is around 35hz. Seems kinda odd it would be that high based on your experience with it @jamiebosco Could be the other components of that passage. I noticed that the peak is one thing but the total spectrum used in that passage matters almost just as much.



The revelation for me is the 3rd graph. This is a capture of the peak spectrum during 2 of the many notes played in chapter 35 at time stamps 1:53:16 and 1:53:19. Each line is one note, a couple seconds long each.

The purple has a peak at 27.4 hz and another (harmonic?) at 13.8hz.

The blue note peaks at 30.8 hz and 15.36 hz.

What are the impacts to the sound of those notes if your system cannot reproduce 13.8 and 15.36 hz?

I'm just a hobbiest here but maybe this is why my ULF capable sub sounds so awesome to me!


If you have REW and Hans Zimmer: Live in Prague - start the RTA and watch the spectrum live as you play through chapter 35 Interstellar Cornfield Chase. Set the screen to view only 5hz to 100 or 150hz. Pay attention to the spectrum peaks of each note (primary and harmonics?). Also notice that around 1:53:15 the spectrum from 15hz all they way to zero all of a sudden jumps 25dB as "your eyeballs wobble"! Who says music has no content below 20hz!
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post #10127 of 12685 Old 09-08-2018, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiebosco View Post
Maybe the RTA in REW? - I think I recall the scene you're talking about, next time I fire up REW I'll check a few scenes in Hans Zimmer: Live in Prague


The scene I have often mentioned in HZ:LiP is at 1hr34m - there is a loud deep bass note played. I had watched HZ:LiP quite a few times with my 4xSVS PB-2000's but the first time I played it with my Seaton SubM's - damn! - that scene made my windows and roof shake, and my daughter (a future bass-head!) looked at me and said something like "woah - that made my eyeballs wobble"
The room is lightly constructed so I don't get much low-bass room gain, my PB-2000s rolled off very quickly at around their 19hz port tune. The Seaton's (used in PGM1/19hz mode) are good to around 20hz but roll off much slower, so I'm guessing the note at 1h34m is somewhere in the 10-20hz range (?) and that's why it didn't stand out that much with the SVS's - I would LOVE to experience this concert with some 2400ULF or 4000ULF beasts in a room with good room gain like @chucky7 's!
Hi jamiebosco,
I believe the scene at 1hr34m you are describing is within "The Dark Knight Trilogy" and I think it is in "Why so Serious".

and for certain, the 2400ULF does get your attention with that low synthesizer note at 1h34m12s!

SO many great bass moments on this Blu-ray. I leave it in the player! Can't give you the exact frequency, though.
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post #10128 of 12685 Old 09-08-2018, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSignal View Post
Great writeup, thanks. I feel there was not much talk of 118HT (except the recent introductory price of the more upgraded amp 2019 model, which IS a great deal).

Most of what I found on this large thread, is most people own the Cap1400 or 2400, (why not get the next best thing from 118HT for a bit more). From what I have read, the 118HT is a favorite amongst reviews and GTGs. It seems like the 118HT great for music and moderate movie watching for those who do not plan run higher than normal bass SPL.

It will be interesting with the revamped 2019 line up which model will become more popular.
It's a 'problem' for ID sub companies... Typically the product price is the cost + mark up. Sometimes, the price differentiation is not big enough to make both products appealing to perspective customers with different budget.

The original 118HT is the most affordable JTR, but at $1699, it was only $300 less than the Cap 1400 ($1999) before the latter went up to $2199. So most customers just spend the $300 to go for the Cap 1400, which has double the power and a beefier driver.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 09-08-2018 at 02:33 PM.
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post #10129 of 12685 Old 09-08-2018, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwaggs View Post
I took your suggestion and played around with REW this morning and learned something very interesting I thought I would share.

I captured some peak spectrum graphs using the RTA function of REW like you suggested (thanks for the lead! )

Each graph is the peak measured during the passage along with the noise floor (measurement taken with a quiet room). This is my normal system tune that I use for listening to music and movies. MV at -10 (I usually listen at -5 but this is more measurement friendly for the rest of the house). Pay no attention to the actual volume, my setup is not volume calibrated. It is a calibrated UMIK, however.

Looks like the chaper 33 rumble is in the 14-16 hz range. Subsequently, I watched several other passages using the live view of the RTA and there are several passages with this 14-16hz rumble at various volumes.

Looks like the strong, house rattling passage at 1:34 is around 35hz. Seems kinda odd it would be that high based on your experience with it @jamiebosco Could be the other components of that passage. I noticed that the peak is one thing but the total spectrum used in that passage matters almost just as much.



The revelation for me is the 3rd graph. This is a capture of the peak spectrum during 2 of the many notes played in chapter 35 at time stamps 1:53:16 and 1:53:19. Each line is one note, a couple seconds long each.

The purple has a peak at 27.4 hz and another (harmonic?) at 13.8hz.

The blue note peaks at 30.8 hz and 15.36 hz.

What are the impacts to the sound of those notes if your system cannot reproduce 13.8 and 15.36 hz?

I'm just a hobbiest here but maybe this is why my ULF capable sub sounds so awesome to me!


If you have REW and Hans Zimmer: Live in Prague - start the RTA and watch the spectrum live as you play through chapter 35 Interstellar Cornfield Chase. Set the screen to view only 5hz to 100 or 150hz. Pay attention to the spectrum peaks of each note (primary and harmonics?). Also notice that around 1:53:15 the spectrum from 15hz all they way to zero all of a sudden jumps 25dB as "your eyeballs wobble"! Who says music has no content below 20hz!

Awesome post brother!
..man I was waaaayyy off on my guess! haha well to be fair, by 35hz the SubM's are starting to really get into their wheelhouse - so they have a huge advantage over the SVSs there as well. we were pushing the volume that day as well (as you do with new toys)


My room has a natural "hump" in the 20-40hz range so that scene is made for my room!. It's something I could probably EQ out, but I dunno - I think I could miss it lol? Am waiting on a miniDSP 2x4HD so I can play around with it

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Last edited by jamiebosco; 09-10-2018 at 05:34 AM.
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post #10130 of 12685 Old 09-08-2018, 02:44 PM
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First sighting of the new 1200W Captivator 118HT...

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Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
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post #10131 of 12685 Old 09-08-2018, 04:15 PM
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The Cap 2400's amp is listed as 2400W RMS on SpeakerPower site. No peak power is listed.

If we go by SVS' math, peak power can be as much as 3.33 times the RMS.

Let's just call it 8000W peak, if it makes you feel better...


The answer is, it depends entirely on the amp. Some amps have very similar rms and burst capability, while others have drastically higher burst capability than rms. For example, compare max burst on data bass of the cap1400 with a 1400 watt amp and the cap 2400 with the 2400 watt amp. Which sub do you think has higher burst output above 50 Hz or so? Hint: it isn't the sub with the 2400 watt amp. The cheap diy behringer amps have almost no burst potential. Their sustained and peak output is pretty similar. But the 14,000 watt clone amps.....crazy burst power. Like 2-4K rms but legit 14k burst.


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post #10132 of 12685 Old 09-08-2018, 04:25 PM
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The answer is, it depends entirely on the amp. Some amps have very similar rms and burst capability, while others have drastically higher burst capability than rms. For example, compare max burst on data bass of the cap1400 with a 1400 watt amp and the cap 2400 with the 2400 watt amp. Which sub do you think has higher burst output above 50 Hz or so? Hint: it isn't the sub with the 2400 watt amp. The cheap diy behringer amps have almost no burst potential. Their sustained and peak output is pretty similar. But the 14,000 watt clone amps.....crazy burst power. Like 2-4K rms but legit 14k burst.
Yes... That's the issue I tried to sutbly address in a few of my posts.

As Ricci had pointed out before, the 1400W ICE Power amp from SpeakerPower bursts better but has less sustainable output. The 2400W Torpedo Amp from SpeakerPower is the other way around. As a result, the ICE Power amp just scores better on CEA2010.

The output difference between the 1400W and the 2400W amp is only 2dB, but the characteristics of the amps would account for output difference much great than that.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

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post #10133 of 12685 Old 09-08-2018, 11:16 PM
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The answer is, it depends entirely on the amp. Some amps have very similar rms and burst capability, while others have drastically higher burst capability than rms. For example, compare max burst on data bass of the cap1400 with a 1400 watt amp and the cap 2400 with the 2400 watt amp. Which sub do you think has higher burst output above 50 Hz or so? Hint: it isn't the sub with the 2400 watt amp. The cheap diy behringer amps have almost no burst potential. Their sustained and peak output is pretty similar. But the 14,000 watt clone amps.....crazy burst power. Like 2-4K rms but legit 14k burst.


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Do you have more info about the cheap Behringers and almost no burst potential?

From the testing I have seen of the Inuke 3000dsp at data-bass when the Inuke 3000DSP was used to test Marks x21/B&C 21DS115-4 it looks fairly good to me when comparing it to the k20 and the burst # vs long-term output # of the two amps.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...l#post54641174

Also in @Shreds testing, it burst double the RMS power. I know it is not known for having the best-sustained power in the lowest frequencies but I don't remember reading about issues with "almost no burst potential". Or is it another Behringer you are referring to?

https://data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=144&mset=167

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post #10134 of 12685 Old 09-09-2018, 12:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Interesting discussion!
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post #10135 of 12685 Old 09-09-2018, 03:40 AM
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First sighting of the new 1200W Captivator 118HT...

Need directions to my house to drop 'em off for me?
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post #10136 of 12685 Old 09-10-2018, 05:11 AM
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Need directions to my house to drop 'em off for me?
So I have a pair of the new 118HTs on order - They will get here when they get here I guess. Three weeks lead time -Waiting patiently

Meanwhile I have been trying to reassure myself that I made the right choice by picking the best fit for my goals (chest thump and TR for HT) and not the 2400s which I was sorely tempted to do. I could probably still switch to the 2400s by paying the difference.

Referring to the original 118s @JeffP ermanian said on another forum: "We spent 1 1/2 years developing and optimizing the Captivator 118 driver. The decision to use the pro audio style surround was made because it maximized the cone area and minimized moving mass while having enough travel. Using to a large, half roll surround would have reduced efficiency (higher mass, less cone area). The cone is custom, well damped and very strong. The motor is the largest and heaviest that Eminence had ever built so we had to go though several processes of getting it approved, including negotiations, drop testing, and manufacturing engineers working out the assembly process. The reason we went though all of this is was to produce the highest efficiency with the highest excursion. The 1/2" thick steel top plate gives us 33% thicker magnetic gap than most of our competitors (commonly using 0.375") which increases motor strength and efficiency. We double stacked 120oz magnets because their larger diameter increases flux in the gap which increased motor strength and efficiency. The 120oz magnets are 1" thick so the pair of them is 2" thick for 2" of clearance between the bottom of the top plate and the back plate which gives us more clearance for increased travel over most of our competitors (using two 0.75" thick magnets plus 0.25" bumped back plate for 1.75"). We went through everything and spared nothing to make the Captivator 118 the best it can be."

Not sure I understand entirely, but sure sounds good! I am curious what further improvements Jeff incorporated into the 2019 118s?
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post #10137 of 12685 Old 09-10-2018, 07:00 AM
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Official JTR Speakers Subwoofer Thread

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So I have a pair of the new 118HTs on order - They will get here when they get here I guess. Three weeks lead time -Waiting patiently



Meanwhile I have been trying to reassure myself that I made the right choice by picking the best fit for my goals (chest thump and TR for HT) and not the 2400s which I was sorely tempted to do. I could probably still switch to the 2400s by paying the difference.



Referring to the original 118s @JeffP ermanian said on another forum: "We spent 1 1/2 years developing and optimizing the Captivator 118 driver. The decision to use the pro audio style surround was made because it maximized the cone area and minimized moving mass while having enough travel. Using to a large, half roll surround would have reduced efficiency (higher mass, less cone area). The cone is custom, well damped and very strong. The motor is the largest and heaviest that Eminence had ever built so we had to go though several processes of getting it approved, including negotiations, drop testing, and manufacturing engineers working out the assembly process. The reason we went though all of this is was to produce the highest efficiency with the highest excursion. The 1/2" thick steel top plate gives us 33% thicker magnetic gap than most of our competitors (commonly using 0.375") which increases motor strength and efficiency. We double stacked 120oz magnets because their larger diameter increases flux in the gap which increased motor strength and efficiency. The 120oz magnets are 1" thick so the pair of them is 2" thick for 2" of clearance between the bottom of the top plate and the back plate which gives us more clearance for increased travel over most of our competitors (using two 0.75" thick magnets plus 0.25" bumped back plate for 1.75"). We went through everything and spared nothing to make the Captivator 118 the best it can be."



Not sure I understand entirely, but sure sounds good! I am curious what further improvements Jeff incorporated into the 2019 118s?


I would say for mid bass you made the right call for sure.

For TR the answer is murkier as there isn’t really a consensus on what causes it. My own guess on this particular comparison is that the 2400 will have more TR in small, suspended flooring rooms due to the 10hz tune, but the 118 will have more on concrete slabs due to having more output and/or higher particle velocity in the resonant frequencies of most furniture.

I’m no expert and this is purely speculation on my part, I hope someone more knowledgeable chimes as well.


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post #10138 of 12685 Old 09-10-2018, 09:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Meanwhile I have been trying to reassure myself that I made the right choice by picking the best fit for my goals (chest thump and TR for HT) and not the 2400s which I was sorely tempted to do. I could probably still switch to the 2400s by paying the difference.
There is no wrong choice here, and following is strictly my humble opinion based on personal preference. If you only have budget for $1550, then 118HT on sale is *far and away* my first choice of available subwoofers on the market. In fact I have often said guys with $1000 budget, please don't buy a $1000 subwoofer , delay your purchase one year and go for 118HT. :-)

However if you have budget for two 118HT's, then I would vote for 2400 or 2400 ULF. This is partly because of my preference for the ability to produce with force the 10-20 Hz range, and as of now, JTR more or less is either the best, or among the very best, in this segment. Take advantage of it.

Last edited by cannga; 09-10-2018 at 01:27 PM.
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post #10139 of 12685 Old 09-10-2018, 10:22 AM
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So I have a pair of the new 118HTs on order - They will get here when they get here I guess. Three weeks lead time -Waiting patiently

Meanwhile I have been trying to reassure myself that I made the right choice by picking the best fit for my goals (chest thump and TR for HT) and not the 2400s which I was sorely tempted to do. I could probably still switch to the 2400s by paying the difference.

Not sure I understand entirely, but sure sounds good! I am curious what further improvements Jeff incorporated into the 2019 118s?
Other than higher amp power that adds around 2dB more output across, Jeff did increase the Cap 118HT's port tune from 17Hz to 20Hz. This also contributes to 1~1.5dB higher output above 20Hz. In raising the port tune, the ports are bigger now.

In your previous posts, you mentioned that you are after the mid-bass slam. Mid-bass is from 50~150 Hz or so and some are just more sensitive to it. This means whichever subs you have is only half of the equation. Your speakers have to be up to the task too. Furthermore, if you only listen at MV of -20dB, you are not going to get the mid-bass slam. You also need to check your FR.

The FR in my room suggests that my system's output at 14 Hz is 15 dB higher than at 106 Hz. I also only listen at a Denon equivalent MV of -8dB. This means I am more likely to cause an earthquake ( and get a phone call from my neighbor ) than feel mid-bass slam.

The last time I felt the mid-bass slam was at Katy Perry's concert last year. It was loud and those PA systems were designed to have high output at 50Hz and above. It sounded horrible and for 3 hours or so, I felt my heart was jumping out of my chest cavity. Then before that was when I was helping Marc do CEA-2010 tests. I was standing just a few inches from the sub's driver and port.

You can try this at home: sit on the floor in front your Cap 1400 driver/port and play some bass clip. Slowly turn up the MV. See if you can feel any mid bass slam.

Therefore, I believe you made the right choice in going with the 118HTs because they are more geared towards tremendous output above 40Hz.

Interesting read: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...bass-slam.html

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 09-10-2018 at 12:20 PM.
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post #10140 of 12685 Old 09-10-2018, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanBWI View Post
So I have a pair of the new 118HTs on order - They will get here when they get here I guess. Three weeks lead time -Waiting patiently [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

Meanwhile I have been trying to reassure myself that I made the right choice by picking the best fit for my goals (chest thump and TR for HT) and not the 2400s which I was sorely tempted to do. I could probably still switch to the 2400s by paying the difference.

Not sure I understand entirely, but sure sounds good! I am curious what further improvements Jeff incorporated into the 2019 118s?
Other than higher amp power that adds around 2dB more output across, Jeff did increase the Cap 118HT's port tune from 17Hz to 20Hz. This also contributes to 1~1.5dB higher output above 20Hz. In raising the port tune, the ports are bigger now.

In your previous posts, you mentioned that you are after the mid-bass slam. Mid-bass is from 50~150 Hz or so and some are just more sensitive to it. This means whichever subs you have is only half of the equation. Your speakers have to be up to the task too. Furthermore, if you only listen at MV of -20dB, you are not going to get the mid-bass slam. You also need to check your FR.

The FR in my room suggests that my system's output at 14 Hz is 15 dB higher than at 106 Hz. I also only listen at a Denon equivalent MV of -8dB. This means I am more likely to cause an earthquake ( and get a phone call from my neighbor ) than feel mid-bass slam.

The last time I felt the mid-bass slam was at Katy Perry's concert last year. It was loud and those PA systems were designed to have high output at 50Hz and above. It sounded horrible and for 3 hours or so, I felt my heart was jumping out of my chest cavity. Then before that was when I was helping Marc do CEA-2010 tests. I was standing just a few inches from the sub's driver and port.

You can try this at home: sit on the floor in front your Cap 1400 driver/port and play some bass clip. Slowly turn up the MV. See if you can feel any mid bass slam.

Therefore, I believe you made the right choice in going with the 118HTs because they are more geared towards tremendous output above 40Hz.

Interesting read: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...bass-slam.html
Chucky, since the new 118HT has a port tuning at 20Hz instead of 17Hz, should that not make the new 118HT have lesser output at 16-17Hz as compared to the older 118HT? However, the graph posted by Jeff showed the new sub having a consistent 2-3db advantage over the older sub even at 16-17Hz. Any idea how Jeff made this possible?

------------------
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