Official JTR Speakers Subwoofer Thread - Page 343 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #10261 of 12983 Old 09-17-2018, 12:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BassMojo View Post
Does anyone use a wireless subwoofer kit? Do they work well? Is there any noticeable difference between one of these kits and direct a XLR connection?
Unless you absolutely have to, I would strongly prefer a straight connection. For me, the simplest connection is *always* better.

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post #10262 of 12983 Old 09-17-2018, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by cannga View Post
Unless you absolutely have to, I would strongly prefer a straight connection. For me, the simplest connection is *always* better.
Thanks @cannga , makes sense. I may have to have a couple XLRs run. See below.
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post #10263 of 12983 Old 09-17-2018, 01:06 PM
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Possible Dual Cap 4000s?

I am considering buying new couches to replace the sectional in our living room to be able to accommodate dual Cap 4000ULF-LPs. My wife thinks that I am nuts, and she is probably right. If so, I would place them flanking our new couch at the MLP with both firing directly into the MLP. Sketch below for reference. As this is the only placement locations for these beasts, would this be optimal or create any obvious problems? The 4000s are probably overkill, but nothing exceeds like excess as these are my end-game subs.

Alternatively, I will go with dual Cap 2400s and place them in the front of our room flanking the front stage and pointing at the MLP. Our room is approximately 18'x18'x10' (~3,200+ CF) and open to a hallway and another living area. The MLP is right up against the back wall. Thanks in advance for any ideas and/or thoughts.

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post #10264 of 12983 Old 09-17-2018, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by BassMojo View Post
Possible Dual Cap 4000s?

I am considering buying new couches to replace the sectional in our living room to be able to accommodate dual Cap 4000ULF-LPs. My wife thinks that I am nuts, and she is probably right. If so, I would place them flanking our new couch at the MLP with both firing directly into the MLP. Sketch below for reference. As this is the only placement locations for these beasts, would this be optimal or create any obvious problems? The 4000s are probably overkill, but nothing exceeds like excess as these are my end-game subs.

Alternatively, I will go with dual Cap 2400s and place them in the front of our room flanking the front stage and pointing at the MLP. Our room is approximately 18'x18'x10' (~3,200+ CF) and open to a hallway and another living area. The MLP is right up against the back wall. Thanks in advance for any ideas and/or thoughts.
When you say the room is approximately 18'x18'x10' (~3,200+ CF), does it have 4 walls but small (door sized or hallway sized) openings to the other areas?

People tend to say that is room is a certain size per the blueprint but bass sees the whole area.

It also depends on where you place the subs. For near field, you probably just need 2 2400s or 2 2400ULFs. If placed at the front stage, then 2 4000ULFs.
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Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
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post #10265 of 12983 Old 09-17-2018, 03:50 PM
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^^ Good point @chucky7 . Below are pics of the two open areas, so probably much larger than 3,200 CF, maybe double that. The other two walls are solid and window-lined. Also a consideration for me is that we will move into a larger house at some point and I'm sure that the room will be different. I am hoping to get a house where I will be able to place the 4000s (or 2400s) in the two front corners.



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post #10266 of 12983 Old 09-17-2018, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassMojo View Post
Possible Dual Cap 4000s?

I am considering buying new couches to replace the sectional in our living room to be able to accommodate dual Cap 4000ULF-LPs. My wife thinks that I am nuts, and she is probably right. If so, I would place them flanking our new couch at the MLP with both firing directly into the MLP. Sketch below for reference. As this is the only placement locations for these beasts, would this be optimal or create any obvious problems? The 4000s are probably overkill, but nothing exceeds like excess as these are my end-game subs.

Alternatively, I will go with dual Cap 2400s and place them in the front of our room flanking the front stage and pointing at the MLP. Our room is approximately 18'x18'x10' (~3,200+ CF) and open to a hallway and another living area. The MLP is right up against the back wall. Thanks in advance for any ideas and/or thoughts.
I'd be afraid to sit that close to dual 4000ULFs. You will need a concussion protocol and associated mandatory testing after each movie.
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post #10267 of 12983 Old 09-17-2018, 04:07 PM
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Put them directly behind the couch and be done with it. VNF would ideally place your body within the diameter of the driver.

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post #10268 of 12983 Old 09-17-2018, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by BassMojo View Post
^^ Good point @chucky7 . Below are pics of the two open areas, so probably much larger than 3,200 CF, maybe double that. The other two walls are solid and window-lined. Also a consideration for me is that we will move into a larger house at some point and I'm sure that the room will be different. I am hoping to get a house where I will be able to place the 4000s (or 2400s) in the two front corners.



Ahhhh, I remember your room. It is quite challenging acoustically.

I see that you already have a JTR sub. Do you have a FR graph? I would like to see how much room gain you get from the MLP.

If you think you will be moving to a house with a bigger HT area, then get a pair of 4000ULFs. That's what end game subs are for. I am just afraid they are too much for your current space.
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Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

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post #10269 of 12983 Old 09-17-2018, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by schwaggs View Post
I'd be afraid to sit that close to dual 4000ULFs. You will need a concussion protocol and associated mandatory testing after each movie.
I'll let you know the end of Feb 2019!!! lol
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post #10270 of 12983 Old 09-17-2018, 04:55 PM
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Ahhhh, I remember your room. It is quite challenging acoustically.

I see that you already have a JTR sub. Do you have a FR graph? I would like to see how much room gain you get from the MLP.

If you think you will be moving to a house with a bigger HT area, then get a pair of 4000ULFs. That's what end game subs are for. I am just afraid they are too much for your current space.
Yes, the room is a bit of a challenge, but the single Cap 1400 (2016) does a pretty good job (to my ears anyways). Unfortunately, I don't have a graph as I have used the Anthem ARC via iPhone to calibrate and it doesn't provide the FR for the phone. Nor is ARC Mac supported, which I use.

I guess that I could always turn the gains down on the 4000s if my ears start bleeding. Some of the reason that I am considering this is the pricing difference is not really that much between the 2400s and 4000s. Especially knowing that I usually want (don't need) more. First world problems.
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post #10271 of 12983 Old 09-17-2018, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by BassMojo View Post
Yes, the room is a bit of a challenge, but the single Cap 1400 (2016) does a pretty good job (to my ears anyways). Unfortunately, I don't have a graph as I have used the Anthem ARC via iPhone to calibrate and it doesn't provide the FR for the phone. Nor is ARC Mac supported, which I use.

I guess that I could always turn the gains down on the 4000s if my ears start bleeding. Some of the reason that I am considering this is the pricing difference is not really that much between the 2400s and 4000s. Especially knowing that I usually want (don't need) more. First world problems.
The only problem I can think of for getting a pair of 4000ULFs now is, if you want to use them NF or VNF, you probably should go with the LP version. However, the LP version is not that easy to place at the front stage with the drivers and the port facing the MLP unless you put them behind the screen in a dedicated HT setup. This is why for front stage placement, I went with the 4000ULF regular version - I can stand it upright or lay it down. If I were to get the second one for NF, it would most likely be the LP version.
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Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

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post #10272 of 12983 Old 09-17-2018, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
The only problem I can think of for getting a pair of 4000ULFs now is, if you want to use them NF or VNF, you probably should go with the LP version. However, the LP version is not that easy to place at the front stage with the drivers and the port facing the MLP unless you put them behind the screen in a dedicated HT setup. This is why for front stage placement, I went with the 4000ULF regular version - I can stand it upright or lay it down. If I were to get the second one, it would probably be the LP version.
Agreed, I am only considering the LP version as the drivers and ports could fire directly into the MLP (indicated by the red arrows in my sketch). Down the road, I would place them as far into the corners as possible with the drivers and ports facing the MLP and the R&L (212RTs?) just inside them.
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post #10273 of 12983 Old 09-17-2018, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by BassMojo View Post
Does anyone use a wireless subwoofer kit? Do they work well? Is there any noticeable difference between one of these kits and direct a XLR connection?

I have a pair of 118HTs, one cable connected (RCA, not XLR) at the front of the room and the other wireless at the rear of the room (>30 feet from the transmitter). I don't notice any difference between the two. I purchased the wireless kit when I had a single sub, and here's what I told another member who also asked about wireless kits.


The best spot I found in my room for my sub was also not the best place to run a cable. After reading several forums that gave opinions on wireless, it seemed to me to be a hit and miss situation. A product that worked well for some didn't work at all for others. I decided to give it a try and purchased a WSK-100 wireless kit from OSD Audio and couldn't get it to work in my room. I returned it and purchased a OAW4 wireless kit from Outlaw Audio and it worked perfectly right out of the box. I ran REW sweeps with a cable connection and with a wireless connection and didn't notice any difference. I haven't tried the Dayton or any other of the wireless sub kits, so I have no opinion on those.

So my experience seems to similar to others, one product worked for me while the other didn't. Here's a link to the OAW4, if you are interested.
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/OAW4.html



I would prefer to have both subs cable connected, but this setup is working fine for me. YMMV.


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post #10274 of 12983 Old 09-17-2018, 06:48 PM
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One issue with the wireless kits is they can introduce additional latency. Not such a problem if you have two or more but if mixing wired and wireless just something to take into account.

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post #10275 of 12983 Old 09-18-2018, 08:54 AM
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Hopefully you won't need any additional anti-vibration pads considering your incoming 4000ULF comes with feet, but you won't know until you test that beast out with some demo material.

I appreciate you emailing Jeff for his recommendation and getting back to me. I guess if I use these, the best way to use them would be to cut them into 4x4 squares and place one in each corner of the 2400ULF.
Just got the email, Jeff says he uses 1/4 inch thick ultra soft.

Oh and my 4000 ships tomorrow yAaaAaay!
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post #10276 of 12983 Old 09-18-2018, 11:32 AM
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Hopefully you won't need any additional anti-vibration pads considering your incoming 4000ULF comes with feet, but you won't know until you test that beast out with some demo material.

I appreciate you emailing Jeff for his recommendation and getting back to me. I guess if I use these, the best way to use them would be to cut them into 4x4 squares and place one in each corner of the 2400ULF.
If I were to use the pad recommended by Jeff, I would probably try with the whole sheet first before cutting it into 4x4 squares.

I have seen a wood veneered Cap 1400 sliding on a Auralex Acoustics SubDude v2 due to the sub's proximity to a couch.
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Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

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post #10277 of 12983 Old 09-18-2018, 11:34 AM
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Oh and my 4000 ships tomorrow yAaaAaay!
Congratulations man!

You got the tools (hand truck) or helpers ready? You are gonna need them.
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Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
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post #10278 of 12983 Old 09-18-2018, 02:06 PM
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Congratulations man!

You got the tools (hand truck) or helpers ready? You are gonna need them.
Oh yea thanks to you and your photos I am prepared with all the above lol, this end game sub weighs as much as I do!

I haven't even heard it yet and already cant wait for tax time to order the other!

Thanks again!
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post #10279 of 12983 Old 09-18-2018, 02:51 PM
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Oh yea thanks to you and your photos I am prepared with all the above lol, this end game sub weighs as much as I do!

I haven't even heard it yet and already cant wait for tax time to order the other!

Thanks again!
You're very welcome!

I see people discuss getting a tax refund, like a bonus or something all the time. Technically, the tax refund is the excess amount that the government withheld more than how much your income tax should be. In essence, you, the tax payer lend money to the government, at 0% interest, that the government would need to repay in a balloon payment every year after you file for a tax return. You can legally structure your W4 in such a way that the withholding tax is roughly equal to how much your income tax would be. This way, you don't get a large tax refund. Instead, you pay check is bigger every month because less of your income is withheld.

There is a calculation regarding how to fill out the W4. I calculated that for my situation (married, filing jointly, no kids or dependents, therefore 2 allowances ), on the W4 I would claim a total of 3 allowances. Therefore, every year when I file for the tax return, I don't owe much, nor the government me (usually less than $100). However, I do get more money every paycheck.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

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post #10280 of 12983 Old 09-18-2018, 03:30 PM
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Just a heads up people:

Denon Offers Trade-In Program for AV Receivers: https://www.highdefdigest.com/news/s...eceivers/42547

Update from the donutmaker:
Quote:
Called them exactly at the point they open their phone lines (10am EST) and was connected. They explained how it worked - the biggest difference in what they said versus what the article said is that they do a monthly devaluation from when you purchased your original Denon (they do not give you the full price you paid).

The biggest caveat for me was that you have to send your current Denon in FIRST, and then they ship you out the new one. Since that is on our main TV and they make no guarantees how fast the new one is processed and sent out once you send in your old one, that's a no go for me as I'm not going to go without for however long they take to ship the new one.
Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/hometheater...de_in_program/

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

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post #10281 of 12983 Old 09-18-2018, 04:21 PM
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Just got the email, Jeff says he uses 1/4 inch thick ultra soft.

Oh and my 4000 ships tomorrow yAaaAaay!
Hey Vibe, thanks you very much for the info. I appreciate it.

Awesome news about the 4000 shipping tomorrow. Man, I can't wait to here your impressions of it.
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post #10282 of 12983 Old 09-18-2018, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
If I were to use the pad recommended by Jeff, I would probably try with the whole sheet first before cutting it into 4x4 squares.

I have seen a wood veneered Cap 1400 sliding on a Auralex Acoustics SubDude v2 due to the sub's proximity to a couch.
Thanks, good idea. I will try the masking tape under the sub first with the anti-vibration pads that I have and if it doesn't work i will order the pad Jeff recommended.
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post #10283 of 12983 Old 09-18-2018, 04:27 PM
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A few updates on my new subwoofer journey:
1. Jeff emailed me and confirmed he can add the feet for the two subs on order for a slight upcharge. This is a huge relief.
2. Sold my Onkyo 809 receiver yesterday. Will miss that beast. But the new Denon 3400H is excellent too.
3. Jeff mentioned that the painting process for my subs will start now. I couldn't be more excited. Wonder how long the painting will take. I guess it takes much longer to cure the paint than the actual painting process itself.

On a side note: @chucky7 : Did you receive your 4400H yet that you ordered last week? That was a sweet deal for $799 shipped. Curious to see how your experience with SubEQ and Audyssey in general works out.

And also, since I'm temporarily "subwoofer-less" (is that a word in the dictionary?), I have decided to hold on watching all block buster movies till I get my new JTRs. But then I realized, I can actually watch Ocean's 8 without the subs and not miss any bit of the bass
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post #10284 of 12983 Old 09-18-2018, 04:52 PM
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Thanks, good idea. I will try the masking tape under the sub first with the anti-vibration pads that I have and if it doesn't work i will order the pad Jeff recommended.
Hopefully the masking tape is all you need!

I hate to spend money on accessories so I always start with inexpensive options first.
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Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #10285 of 12983 Old 09-18-2018, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by tojo_m View Post
A few updates on my new subwoofer journey:
1. Jeff emailed me and confirmed he can add the feet for the two subs on order for a slight upcharge. This is a huge relief.
2. Sold my Onkyo 809 receiver yesterday. Will miss that beast. But the new Denon 3400H is excellent too.
3. Jeff mentioned that the painting process for my subs will start now. I couldn't be more excited. Wonder how long the painting will take. I guess it takes much longer to cure the paint than the actual painting process itself.
I am glad that it's not to late to add the feet!

The piano lacquer painting process is tedious. It's basically repeated spray painting/sanding at least 5 and as many as 9 times to get the high gloss mirror finish. This is why it is so expensive done in the US.

Quote:
On a side note: @chucky7 : Did you receive your 4400H yet that you ordered last week? That was a sweet deal for $799 shipped. Curious to see how your experience with SubEQ and Audyssey in general works out.

And also, since I'm temporarily "subwoofer-less" (is that a word in the dictionary?), I have decided to hold on watching all block buster movies till I get my new JTRs. But then I realized, I can actually watch Ocean's 8 without the subs and not miss any bit of the bass
I ordered the X4400h last week from an authorized dealer out of state. It's supposed to be delivered tomorrow.

The X3400h is plenty especially you plan to use just 2 ATMOS channels.

Actually, you will be fine subless with any of the Avenger or the latest Fast and the Furious movies ...
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Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 09-18-2018 at 09:05 PM.
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post #10286 of 12983 Old 09-18-2018, 08:53 PM
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I have a pair of 118HTs, one cable connected (RCA, not XLR) at the front of the room and the other wireless at the rear of the room (>30 feet from the transmitter). I don't notice any difference between the two. I purchased the wireless kit when I had a single sub, and here's what I told another member who also asked about wireless kits.


The best spot I found in my room for my sub was also not the best place to run a cable. After reading several forums that gave opinions on wireless, it seemed to me to be a hit and miss situation. A product that worked well for some didn't work at all for others. I decided to give it a try and purchased a WSK-100 wireless kit from OSD Audio and couldn't get it to work in my room. I returned it and purchased a OAW4 wireless kit from Outlaw Audio and it worked perfectly right out of the box. I ran REW sweeps with a cable connection and with a wireless connection and didn't notice any difference. I haven't tried the Dayton or any other of the wireless sub kits, so I have no opinion on those.

So my experience seems to similar to others, one product worked for me while the other didn't. Here's a link to the OAW4, if you are interested.
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/OAW4.html



I would prefer to have both subs cable connected, but this setup is working fine for me. YMMV.


Jack
Thanks for sharing no loss of production from the wireless sub? I just bought the NEW 118s and my set up sounds very similar to yours.

I looked at the manual, the usb power cord seems awfully short. Is the sub w/ wireless kit very close to power outlet?

Thanks
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Set up #1 Speakers LR: Tekton Enzo XL ; Center: Tekton Pendragon Subs (2) 2019 JTR 118HTs
Set up #2 : QA3020i LR, Center: Emotiva C1 Subs (2) HSU VTF2 MK5,
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post #10287 of 12983 Old 09-19-2018, 04:35 AM
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^^ Good point @chucky7 . Below are pics of the two open areas, so probably much larger than 3,200 CF, maybe double that. The other two walls are solid and window-lined. Also a consideration for me is that we will move into a larger house at some point and I'm sure that the room will be different. I am hoping to get a house where I will be able to place the 4000s (or 2400s) in the two front corners.




Are those the 6000 or 4000 series amps? How’d
you like them?
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post #10288 of 12983 Old 09-19-2018, 07:07 AM
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Thanks for sharing no loss of production from the wireless sub? I just bought the NEW 118s and my set up sounds very similar to yours.

I looked at the manual, the usb power cord seems awfully short. Is the sub w/ wireless kit very close to power outlet?

Thanks

I haven't noticed any loss of production. However when I was moving the rear sub around the room to find the best location, I did have one spot where there was interference. I don't have a dedicated HT room, instead it is more of a rec room (with an odd shape) in a walkout basement. The north side of the room is my HT area (which I mostly use it for music) and the south side is a pool table area. My rear sub is on the south wall on the far side of the pool table area. The problem spot was beside a furnace room bump-out and I think the signal was being blocked by the furnace and hot water heater in that bump-out.



The USB power cord is 3 ft long and I do have a power outlet close to the sub, but the wireless receiver connects to the sub via an RCA cable, which can be any length. So for example, you could have the wireless receiver within 3 ft of an outlet, then run an RCA cable to anywhere you want the sub.


As Paradeep2 mentioned, the wireless setup adds some latency, which you have to allow for. I have a Yamaha RX-A3040 that has 2 sub out connections and YPAO sets the distances for each sub. In my case, it set the front sub distance to 18.8 ft the rear to 36.4 ft to adjust for the latency.



BTW, congrats on your new 118HT purchase! I'm a little bit jealous.


Jack
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post #10289 of 12983 Old 09-19-2018, 08:07 AM
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Are those the 6000 or 4000 series amps? How’d
you like them?
They are a pair of 6007s. I came from Parasound Halos (A21 & A51s), and absolutely love the ATIs. They are extremely clean and there is zero hiss from the 228HTRs, where the Halos did have a small amount. My goal was to go from three to two units with less heat production. I am very satisfied with them and don't see any need to upgrade amps.
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post #10290 of 12983 Old 09-19-2018, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack1949 View Post
I haven't noticed any loss of production. However when I was moving the rear sub around the room to find the best location, I did have one spot where there was interference. I don't have a dedicated HT room, instead it is more of a rec room (with an odd shape) in a walkout basement. The north side of the room is my HT area (which I mostly use it for music) and the south side is a pool table area. My rear sub is on the south wall on the far side of the pool table area. The problem spot was beside a furnace room bump-out and I think the signal was being blocked by the furnace and hot water heater in that bump-out.



The USB power cord is 3 ft long and I do have a power outlet close to the sub, but the wireless receiver connects to the sub via an RCA cable, which can be any length. So for example, you could have the wireless receiver within 3 ft of an outlet, then run an RCA cable to anywhere you want the sub.


As Paradeep2 mentioned, the wireless setup adds some latency, which you have to allow for. I have a Yamaha RX-A3040 that has 2 sub out connections and YPAO sets the distances for each sub. In my case, it set the front sub distance to 18.8 ft the rear to 36.4 ft to adjust for the latency.



BTW, congrats on your new 118HT purchase! I'm a little bit jealous.


Jack
Thanks Jack.
Good info. I haven't even been able to watch a full movie yet, been busy, but prob this weekend. The low has been pretty dam good. But again, not full evaluation on where I have the New 118s.
If things aren't booming as I think they should, time to move around the sub(s) so that wireless kit may do the trick.

Audyssey only recognizes one sub so that's a bit of a problem.

Lets see what happens after this weekend. That outlaw wireless seems like a pretty decent deal.

Set up #1 Speakers LR: Tekton Enzo XL ; Center: Tekton Pendragon Subs (2) 2019 JTR 118HTs
Set up #2 : QA3020i LR, Center: Emotiva C1 Subs (2) HSU VTF2 MK5,
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