Official JTR Speakers Subwoofer Thread - Page 346 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #10351 of 14551 Old 09-27-2018, 04:13 AM
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Originally Posted by schwaggs View Post
I think Adam recommended using 2 (or more if you have more people) zip ties looped through the mounting holes as handles while you lower the new driver into place. Once the mounting holes are lined up, cut the ties and slide the ties out.
I would say a user John is likely to damage the cabinet during dismounting the driver and injure his fingers during mounting the driver.

Zip ties help immensely because the driver opening is recessed.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #10352 of 14551 Old 09-27-2018, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Data-bass tested the Captivator 2400: https://prod.data-bass.com/#/systems...f8b5?_k=lfwmkm

Compared with the projected numbers, 2400's maximum output below 12Hz is even better than expected. At 10Hz, the 2400 is just less than 1dB from the 2400ULF. It also tested better than the 2400ULF above 32Hz. Those thinking that the 2400 will lose the mid bass slam can sleep better at night. The similarity in output means that most users shouldn't be able to tell the 2400 and the 2400ULF apart under blind listening.

The updated JTR subwoofer data sheet:

Needless to say, even at regular price, the Captivator 2400 is an absolute bargain, much less at 10% off introductory price of $2249 + freight. The Captivator 2400's form factor is just unheard of for a 10Hz tuned ported sub.

Another outstanding product from JTR. Congratulations, Jeff!

OK, that is CRAZY! The 2400 is within 1db of the 2400ULF across the board?!!!? With it's "normal" footprint, there is no reason there shouldn't be a 2400 (or 2) in every home theater across the land!
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post #10353 of 14551 Old 09-27-2018, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by schwaggs View Post
OK, that is CRAZY! The 2400 is within 1db of the 2400ULF across the board?!!!? With it's "normal" footprint, there is no reason there shouldn't be a 2400 (or 2) in every home theater across the land!
Two Cap 2400s should be delivered here to N Cal on Wednesday. Hopefully these don't augment any earthquakes?!

I guess that it'll be time to let someone else enjoy my beloved Cap 1400...
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post #10354 of 14551 Old 09-27-2018, 09:18 AM
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Who pays for shipping costs for parts replacement within warranty period?
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post #10355 of 14551 Old 09-27-2018, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by schwaggs View Post
OK, that is CRAZY! The 2400 is within 1db of the 2400ULF across the board?!!!? With it's "normal" footprint, there is no reason there shouldn't be a 2400 (or 2) in every home theater across the land!
It's interesting because back in May when the 2400ULF's numbers were first leaked, Jeff was here in SoCal so I spoke to him in person. I told him that I wished the 2400ULF numbers were a little higher because we were expecting +2dB across the board from the 1400. Jeff expressed that the 2400ULF was tested on a hot day. I asked him if he would consider having the 2400ULF retested.

Yesterday, when I first saw the 2400's numbers I thought: That's more like it!!! Maybe because the expectation is more realistic???

Jeff: Damn these @#$% bassheads... Just can't make them happy!

I think if the 2400ULF and the 2400 were tested on the same day, the 2400ULF should have the advantage down low like Jeff projected and be slightly better the rest of the way due to its bigger cabinet (higher efficiency). This is also the reason that the 4000ULF would have better numbers than 2 2400ULF combined because each of the 4000ULF driver has more space to work with.

The 2400's numbers are simply exemplary. To put it into perspective, it is only 33% larger than the smallest 18" ID sub PSA V1801. Those who think the 2400 cabinet is too big really should take a gander of the Marty Sub in the DIY forum. The fully Marty is considered the PROPER size.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 09-28-2018 at 04:51 AM.
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post #10356 of 14551 Old 09-27-2018, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
It's interesting because back in May when the 2400ULF's numbers were first leaked, Jeff was here in SoCal so I spoke to him in person. I told him that that the 2400ULF numbers were a little lower than expected because people were expecting +2dB across the board from the 1400. Jeff expressed that the 2400ULF was tested on a hot day. I asked him if he would consider having the 2400ULF retested.

Yesterday, when I first saw the 2400's numbers I thought: That's more like it!!! Maybe because the expectation is more realistic???

Jeff: Damn these @#$% bassheads... Just can't make them happy!

I think if the 2400ULF and the 2400 were tested on the same day, the 2400ULF should have the advantage down low like Jeff projected and be slightly better the rest of the way due to its bigger cabinet (higher efficiency). This is also the reason that the 4000ULF would have better numbers than 2 2400ULF combined because each of the 4000ULF driver has more space to work with.

The 2400's numbers are simply exemplary. To put it into perspective, it is only 33% larger than the smallest 18" ID sub PSA V1801. Those who think the 2400 cabinet is too big really should venture into the DIY forum.

I remember the temperature discussion when the 2400ULF DB results came out - makes sense. I wonder if there is some sort of temperature and humidity correction factor that can be used. In the end, it's not really that important. I'm just thankful Data-Bass performs these tests.


Now I have a decision to make when I get my second 2400 - should I order an extra empty 2400 or 2400ULF 10hz cab to swap my 2400ULF 14hz parts into. Should I see if Jeff has a 2400ULF 14hz cab laying around and stay with that path?
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post #10357 of 14551 Old 09-27-2018, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by schwaggs View Post
I remember the temperature discussion when the 2400ULF DB results came out - makes sense. I wonder if there is some sort of temperature and humidity correction factor that can be used. In the end, it's not really that important. I'm just thankful Data-Bass performs these tests.

Now I have a decision to make when I get my second 2400 - should I order an extra empty 2400 or 2400ULF 10hz cab to swap my 2400ULF 14hz parts into. Should I see if Jeff has a 2400ULF 14hz cab laying around and stay with that path?
Yeah, temperature does play a crucial part and that is why the recommended ambient testing temperature is 60~80 F according to CEA-2010 guidelines. Higher ambient temperature means less headroom for the subs.

It really depends on which form factor you like better. If you are okay with the taller 2400ULF cabinet, then just order an extra 2400ULF 10Hz cabinet when you get the second 2400ULF. If not, go with the 2400 and an extra 2400 cabinet.

If I were you, I would definitely upgrade to the 10Hz versions. It's unlikely that Jeff still has the 14Hz cabinets laying around. The upgrade cost is just the cabinet cost + $150 added freight + cost to reprogram the 14Hz amp. The total should be less than $500. That is a very small cost for you to have your forever subs!

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 09-27-2018 at 03:37 PM.
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post #10358 of 14551 Old 09-27-2018, 11:35 AM
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Here is the chart comparison of the Captivator 2400 and the 2400ULF.

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post #10359 of 14551 Old 09-27-2018, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Yeah, temperature does play a crucial part and that is why the recommended ambient testing temperature is 60~80 F according to CEA-2010 guidelines. Higher ambient temperature means less headroom for the subs.

It really depends on which form factor you like better. If you are okay with the taller 2400ULF cabinet, then just order an extra 2400ULF 10Hz cabinet when you get the second 2400ULF. If not, go with the 2400 and an extra 2400 cabinet.

If I were you, I would definitely upgrade to the 10Hz versions. It's unlikely that Jeff still has the 14Hz cabinets laying around. The upgrade cost is just the cabinet cost + $150 added freight + cost to reprogram the 14Hz amp, which if I have to guess, should be around $600. That is a very small cost for you to have your forever subs!

$600 total? The way you worded that sounds like DSP re-programming is $600.
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post #10360 of 14551 Old 09-27-2018, 03:18 PM
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$600 total? The way you worded that sounds like DSP re-programming is $600.
Yes, total. I figured...

The cabinet should cost around $300...

Freight for one 2400ULF is $250 on a pallet. The pallet freight is capped at $400, so the freight for the cabinet is $150...

Jeff doesn't charge a fee to re-program the plate amps. The shipping for the amp is $20 each way. $40...

Therefore, the total should be less than $500.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 09-28-2018 at 04:48 AM.
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post #10361 of 14551 Old 09-27-2018, 07:32 PM
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^^^

The Data-Bass results on the smaller Cap 2400 are just exemplary! I may be the only one who sees things this way, but I have thought from the time that the new Cap 2400 was announced, that it was too similar to the Cap 2400 ULF, with the same 10Hz port tune. Granted that testing the Cap 2400 ULF on a different (cooler) day might have made a difference of a decibel or two, I still think that the two subwoofers are simply too close together in performance.

I think that Jeff's creative impulses, and his desire to fill niches, will impel him to change one of the two subwoofers somewhat. Perhaps he will go back to a 14Hz port tune--this time with the smaller Cap 2400. Or, since the Cap 2400 is working out so well as it is, perhaps he will do something to the Cap 2400 ULF to create more separation--such as increasing the cabinet size, and/or the amplifier power of the ULF version. But, it's hard for me to believe that he will let things stand, just as they are, for very long.

I guess we will all have to stay tuned!

Regards,
Mike
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post #10362 of 14551 Old 09-27-2018, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Data-bass tested the Captivator 2400: https://prod.data-bass.com/#/systems...f8b5?_k=lfwmkm









Compared with the projected numbers, 2400's maximum output below 12Hz is even better than expected. At 10Hz, the 2400 is just less than 1dB from the 2400ULF. It also tested better than the 2400ULF above 32Hz. Those thinking that the 2400 will lose the mid bass slam can sleep better at night. The similarity in output means that most users shouldn't be able to tell the 2400 and the 2400ULF apart under blind listening.

The updated JTR subwoofer data sheet:



Needless to say, even at regular price, the Captivator 2400 is an absolute bargain, much less at 10% off introductory price of $2249 + freight. The Captivator 2400's form factor is just unheard of for a 10Hz tuned ported sub.

Another outstanding product from JTR. Congratulations, Jeff!
Wow those are great numbers better than I thought can’t wait to get mine
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post #10363 of 14551 Old 09-27-2018, 08:24 PM
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The 2400 results are almost defying physics! Waiting for data bass to test the new 118HT too.
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post #10364 of 14551 Old 09-27-2018, 11:30 PM
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Hi - no doubt this is one amazing subwoofer - Jeff knows his stuff for sure. I can only wonder how such a sub would sound / and play in my home. I like the idea of it's size and still able to go to 10 hz !
For that - I envy you guys that live in the US. Btw never got a reply from Jeff with total price - and most likely this thing would also cost way to much for me before it's on my doorstep. For comparison - a svs pb-16 (piano finish) is 2.500 $ in US - in Denmark I can buy it for 24.000 DKR = 3.748 $ - so imagine what this 2400 would cost - with different amp, different finish, shipping and import tax

But I could also start saving up for a couple of years - not caring for the total price and get the über sub - my final sub (if that is even possible) and not replace it all the time. I think if I could go to 10 hz - I have to be satisfied ?
The 2400 size would be accepted by my wife - if I had no wife - I would buy the 4000 ULF

Some people import used cars from US - so why not a sub - if you want the best of the best - you need to pay - just like a sports car.

I just don't like the lack of communication - Jeff should hire a secretary (his wife ? ) - hope that the support is better if / when something is not working with his subs.

I wish you all good luck with your new subs and will read your posts with interest !
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post #10365 of 14551 Old 09-28-2018, 02:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Thomasdk1405 View Post
Hi - no doubt this is one amazing subwoofer - Jeff knows his stuff for sure. I can only wonder how such a sub would sound / and play in my home. I like the idea of it's size and still able to go to 10 hz !
For that - I envy you guys that live in the US. Btw never got a reply from Jeff with total price - and most likely this thing would also cost way to much for me before it's on my doorstep. For comparison - a svs pb-16 (piano finish) is 2.500 $ in US - in Denmark I can buy it for 24.000 DKR = 3.748 $ - so imagine what this 2400 would cost - with different amp, different finish, shipping and import tax

But I could also start saving up for a couple of years - not caring for the total price and get the über sub - my final sub (if that is even possible) and not replace it all the time. I think if I could go to 10 hz - I have to be satisfied ?
The 2400 size would be accepted by my wife - if I had no wife - I would buy the 4000 ULF

Some people import used cars from US - so why not a sub - if you want the best of the best - you need to pay - just like a sports car.

I just don't like the lack of communication - Jeff should hire a secretary (his wife ? ) - hope that the support is better if / when something is not working with his subs.

I wish you all good luck with your new subs and will read your posts with interest !

@Jeff Permanian indeed has done a great job, and yea you are right shipping that thing can cost a lot !.
I live far away from the state too and I'm about to order 2400, shipping will cost me more than 900$+ no mention the tax that I will have to pay when it will get to here and the other *tax that FedEx takes =)...
anyhow as soon as I get the invoice from Jeff hopefully soon hint (he his hard to get - and I hope he his not hate me by now since I emailing him every day just for reminder ) I could tell you how much it cost in total including tax 18% here ...

I'm lucky my wife agreed to that size, hopefully, the next buy will be the NOESIS 212RT -), about the wife factor -> just buy 1 diamond, and immediately after you give it to your wife ask if it's ok if you buy a 58″ speaker height (my example), trust me she will tell you of course - WORKED 100%.
Again the hard thing is to get Jeff , I agree it would be nice if he had some secretary that can answer the phone.
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post #10366 of 14551 Old 09-28-2018, 12:52 PM
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But that beats the whole purpose of getting a receiver with SubEQ as the receiver will think you have just a single sub.
Until you get up to trinnov type room correction, all of the lower REQ options should ask to treat the sub system as a whole as one single entity for eqing. Even if manually eqing, you should always eq the sub system as a whole.

Those 2400 results are understandably going to dinosaur the ULF. I don't see any reason why you'd pay the premium for the ULF version at a larger footprint for that little of a difference honestly.
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post #10367 of 14551 Old 09-29-2018, 03:40 AM
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First picture of the 2400:


Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #10368 of 14551 Old 09-29-2018, 06:34 AM
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Delivery!!!!
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Delivery!!!!
After reviewing the replay, the call on the field stands. Touchdown.
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Delivery!!!!

AWESOME. Make sure to JTR-proof your house before firing that bad boy up. Batten down the hatches, its going to get stormy!
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post #10371 of 14551 Old 09-29-2018, 09:16 AM
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Until you get up to trinnov type room correction, all of the lower REQ options should ask to treat the sub system as a whole as one single entity for eqing. Even if manually eqing, you should always eq the sub system as a whole.

Those 2400 results are understandably going to dinosaur the ULF. I don't see any reason why you'd pay the premium for the ULF version at a larger footprint for that little of a difference honestly.
Have you been able to try RoomPerfect? If so, what's your impression?

When I ordered my 2400 pair, I asked Jeff about upgrading my order to either a pair of 2400ULFs or 4000ULFs. He suggested that the I stay with the 2400s as the 2400ULFs "might" not be worth the additional cost. Now it's clear that he was guiding me in the right direction. What a great guy! And even though cost was my last purchasing factor, I decided to stay with the 2400s mostly due to ease of placement in our current and future homes. I even inquired about upgrading the 2400s with the 4000 watt amps. I think that the new 2400s will be a game changer producing incredible output is a small form. I'll post some pics when they arrive and I get them installed.
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post #10372 of 14551 Old 09-29-2018, 02:51 PM
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You guys are scaring me with this talk of the 2400ULF soon meeting its maker. I'm placing an order for my 2nd within 2 weeks.
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post #10373 of 14551 Old 09-29-2018, 03:06 PM
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You guys are scaring me with this talk of the 2400ULF soon meeting its maker. I'm placing an order for my 2nd within 2 weeks.
Like I posted before, the 2400ULF should have measured higher under the same weather conditions. You will be fine.

How is the 2400ULF treating ya?

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #10374 of 14551 Old 09-29-2018, 03:08 PM
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Delivery!!!!


Congrats man! Holy cow that thing is massive, wish I had the space for a pair of them


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post #10375 of 14551 Old 09-29-2018, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Sweet Jimmy View Post
You guys are scaring me with this talk of the 2400ULF soon meeting its maker. I'm placing an order for my 2nd within 2 weeks.


The only thing that should scare you is that they may wreck your house, LOL. I’m sure that you will absolutely love them! I racked my brain on which direction to go, and only went with the non-ULF version due to its smaller form.

Last edited by BassMojo; 09-29-2018 at 05:26 PM.
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post #10376 of 14551 Old 09-29-2018, 03:49 PM
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Like I posted before, the 2400ULF should have measured higher under the same weather conditions. You will be fine.

How is the 2400ULF treating ya?
It's utterly brilliant. And I say that without having even played a blu-ray yet or played music particularly loudly. As you know the depth, texture, and dynamic capability of these drivers is fantastic for music playback. I love it dearly and I haven't even heard what it can truly do yet. I'm placing an order for a duplicate within 2 weeks and once I have both of them I'll play the movies we all talk about and get the full experience.
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post #10377 of 14551 Old 09-30-2018, 05:39 AM
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Thanks guys, this thing is nuts. Very musical, I mean it hits hard up top and down low.

When I first hooked it up it had a low hum to it and got louder as I turned the gain up. My wife backed away from it. I said what's wrong? She said she remembered what that big blue speaker did in Back to The future and she's not standing in front of it. Okay fair enough.

So I let it rip and instantly noticed the difference, right up until my magnetic grill from my ceiling atmos speaker fell into my lap. No one needs two of these things, but I want another for balance. Two of these things will damage your house, I promise.

This thing makes your clothes shake when you walk in the room. Unbelievable!

Off to Walmart to get Ready Player one in 4k, yes at 8:40am lol....
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post #10378 of 14551 Old 09-30-2018, 07:24 AM
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The only thing that should prevent you from buying the ULF version of the 2400 for HT is WAF/size constraints. Those subs are absolutely brutal - buy them and know that you’ll never need to look back.

DJ
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2kW fully active, fully balanced 2 channel Vaders

Overkill IS my middle name.
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post #10379 of 14551 Old 09-30-2018, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by <Vibe> View Post
Delivery!!!!
Congratulations!
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Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #10380 of 14551 Old 09-30-2018, 04:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Public Service Announcement: Last day of the 10% sale for both JTR 2400 and JTR 118. Extremely unlikely you will see this price again as we know the margin is so very thin for JTR.
Huge USA made driver + Powerful USA made amps + large box + hand assembled and tuned by the SUBWOOFER WHISPERER = NO REGRET . It's really that simple how the tremendous CEA results for all JTR subwoofers are achieved - do not wait.







Regards, Can
My System & Theta Casablanca Mini-Review Uncontrolled passion for music, and sound.
Casablanca IVa Dirac Set Up Help HERE And some interesting audio diagrams.
JTR Subwoofer Thread I don't always listen to subwoofers, but when I do, it's JTR :-).

Last edited by cannga; 09-30-2018 at 04:23 PM.
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