Official JTR Speakers Subwoofer Thread - Page 366 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #10951 of 12707 Old 11-22-2018, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
IMO, spend $1k-$1.5k on a decent LCD, spend far less than the difference the OLED would have cost and get a projection setup.
PJ is for sure the best option for a dedicated room and for watching movies with a cinema-scope aspect. But it is not necessarily the best option if you don't have complete light controlled room or for regular family room, IMO. I have PJ and AT screen ready to install in my basement, but my build keeps getting side tracked.
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post #10952 of 12707 Old 11-22-2018, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by jjackkrash View Post
Check out the Oled deals thread if you are looking. I walked in and went right to the store Manager with a few printouts from some of the online discounters and told him I was buying a TV today and that I'd buy one from him right now if he made it worth my while. 10 minutes later the set was in the truck.
Exactly! Use the power of retail competition to your advantage!

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post #10953 of 12707 Old 11-22-2018, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by jjackkrash View Post
PJ is for sure the best option for a dedicated room and for watching movies with a cinema-scope aspect. But it is not necessarily the best option if you don't have complete light controlled room or for regular family room, IMO. I have PJ and AT screen ready to install in my basement, but my build keeps getting side tracked.

I thought modern day projectors had enough light output to work well even in a room that isn't completely dark. However, my point is that a $1k-$1.5k TV is maybe good enough for watching the news or Oprah, and the projection screen can be lowered and curtains drawn for serious viewing. Even a motorized electric screen and very good projector can be done for less than the cost of a large OLED minus the cost of a decent LCD/LED. I mean, this hobby isn't always about the best value, and everyone has their own priorities, but my personal preference would be a 110" screen with a great picture, and a $1-$1.5k TV, versus only a $5-$7k TV and no large screen.
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post #10954 of 12707 Old 11-22-2018, 08:40 AM
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$5000 even is a great price!
Yep, if you’re are talking to the decision maker like @jjackkrash says, you can strike a pretty good deal. People have been speculating on the 77 dropping to to 5k and below.

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I know you can't move your couch closer to the TV... That is why I suggested it...

Definitely not doubting you, my man... Just pointing out the high prices for OLED. In contrast, a decent (IMO) 75" Samsung LED UN75NU710 is $1088 + tax now. You could get 4 of them and make a giant 150" TV wall for less than the 77" OLED...
Lol, I was a little slow on the couch thing. 4x75......hhmmm...I might have to think about that I know you’re not doubting me and I appreciate the advice.

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IMO, spend $1k-$1.5k on a decent LCD, spend far less than the difference the OLED would have cost and get a projection setup.
I have considered a projector and screen but not sure how that would work in my room. I would have to somehow mount it on the ceiling and then have it drop down for movies. I may have to look into that still again. Anyway, like I said, I’m not completely set on what I’m gettingI did look at a top of the line LED but then I saw the blooming affect and then I couldn’t unsee it, I couldn’t unring that bell. Since this is going to be a big purchase, I tend to over analyze, rethink, over analyze, rethink and then start over.

My apologies to the JTR thread, I seemed to have derailed it a bit. Carry on with the sub talk.

Happy Thanksgiving!

Todd
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post #10955 of 12707 Old 11-22-2018, 08:47 AM
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I thought modern day projectors had enough light output to work well even in a room that isn't completely dark.
This depends mostly on what you can personally tolerate. I love a nice PJ in a black room, but my personal enjoyment starts to wane pretty quickly as the room gets lighter.

Also, on the Oled, you can get a very nice 65" set for $2k. The 77"ers have a panel size that was very inefficient to make in the older facilities (LG upgraded and is upgrading its production facilities to make these bigger panels more efficiently) and the prices have just in the last few weeks come out of the clouds. $5k is still a tough nut for me to swallow, but I really wanted one of these babies.
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post #10956 of 12707 Old 11-22-2018, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by toddct View Post
Yep, if you’re are talking to the decision maker like @jjackkrash says, you can strike a pretty good deal. People have been speculating on the 77 dropping to to 5k and below.



Lol, I was a little slow on the couch thing. 4x75......hhmmm...I might have to think about that I know you’re not doubting me and I appreciate the advice.



I have considered a projector and screen but not sure how that would work in my room. I would have to somehow mount it on the ceiling and then have it drop down for movies. I may have to look into that still again. Anyway, like I said, I’m not completely set on what I’m gettingI did look at a top of the line LED but then I saw the blooming affect and then I couldn’t unsee it, I couldn’t unring that bell. Since this is going to be a big purchase, I tend to over analyze, rethink, over analyze, rethink and then start over.

My apologies to the JTR thread, I seemed to have derailed it a bit. Carry on with the sub talk.

Happy Thanksgiving!

Todd
I dunno, having seen your viewing room I’m thinking an LED OLED direct view monitor is going to be your best bet from a form/function standpoint. More simple plug and play. The WAF standpoint will also factor in heavily here since there will be no drilling and sawing or running of wires and the battling of light issues in a space with an open floor plan. An 85 incher would give you more than enough of what you’re looking for where visual field is concerned, and since we are right up against Black Friday/Cyber Monday...Like I said we love our 75” Sony as it fits our space perfectly.

DJ
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post #10957 of 12707 Old 11-22-2018, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by djreef View Post
I dunno, having seen your viewing room I’m thinking an LED OLED direct view monitor is going to be your best bet from a form/function standpoint. More simple plug and play. The WAF standpoint will also factor in heavily here since there will be no drilling and sawing or running of wires and the battling of light issues in a space with an open floor plan. An 85 incher would give you more than enough of what you’re looking for where visual field is concerned, and since we are right up against Black Friday/Cyber Monday...Like I said we love our 75” Sony as it fits our space perfectly.

DJ
Thanks for the thought DJ. I am leaning that way since I don’t have a dedicated room but I’ve got some time to think.

I’ll bet that 75 is nice. Rest assured, I’ll be getting the biggest best TV I can afford without selling a kidney! Who are we kidding....I’ve got 2.....

Todd
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post #10958 of 12707 Old 11-22-2018, 11:11 AM - Thread Starter
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I have considered a projector and screen but not sure how that would work in my room. I would have to somehow mount it on the ceiling and then have it drop down for movies. I may have to look into that still again. Anyway, like I said, I’m not completely set on what I’m gettingI did look at a top of the line LED but then I saw the blooming affect and then I couldn’t unsee it, I couldn’t unring that bell. Since this is going to be a big purchase, I tend to over analyze, rethink, over analyze, rethink and then start over.

My apologies to the JTR thread, I seemed to have derailed it a bit. Carry on with the sub talk.

Happy Thanksgiving!

Todd

No apologies needed; we LOVE talking about toys!! Anyway, I have JVC projector in my hometheater for around 20 years now, and Pioneer Kuro 60" plasma in living room.

Just MHO:
1. Any movies, sports, shows on the projector TRANSFORMS the experience. The room however must be very dark, the darker the better. There is no way around this - must be dark.
2. Any LED or OLED will kill the projector when it comes to brightness and PQ in case of OLED, but... the experience will not be the same primarily because of the small size. The only advantage is for watching news in a bright room, as projector is not nearly as convenient and does not look good in a bright room.
3. Every time I'm at Best Buy, I am completely mesmerized by the picture quality and "blackness" of the OLED's. To the point that I wish my Kuro would stop working.

So if you could have a dark room or plan to watch movies mostly in evening etc., go for the projector, you will never go back. Ideally, get an OLED for the living room LOL.
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post #10959 of 12707 Old 11-22-2018, 11:14 AM
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I agree with pretty much everything @cannga wrote.
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post #10960 of 12707 Old 11-22-2018, 11:25 AM
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I got my 65" LG OLED B8 2 weeks ago for $1,799 out the door. I'm a bargain shopper!!
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post #10961 of 12707 Old 11-22-2018, 11:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jjackkrash View Post
This depends mostly on what you can personally tolerate. I love a nice PJ in a black room, but my personal enjoyment starts to wane pretty quickly as the room gets lighter.

Also, on the Oled, you can get a very nice 65" set for $2k. The 77"ers have a panel size that was very inefficient to make in the older facilities (LG upgraded and is upgrading its production facilities to make these bigger panels more efficiently) and the prices have just in the last few weeks come out of the clouds. $5k is still a tough nut for me to swallow, but I really wanted one of these babies.
77 OLED = heaven on earth.
I think I might have to take a hammer to my beloved Pioneer Kuro if the price keeps dropping.
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post #10962 of 12707 Old 11-22-2018, 11:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjackkrash View Post
This depends mostly on what you can personally tolerate. I love a nice PJ in a black room, but my personal enjoyment starts to wane pretty quickly as the room gets lighter.

Also, on the Oled, you can get a very nice 65" set for $2k. The 77"ers have a panel size that was very inefficient to make in the older facilities (LG upgraded and is upgrading its production facilities to make these bigger panels more efficiently) and the prices have just in the last few weeks come out of the clouds. $5k is still a tough nut for me to swallow, but I really wanted one of these babies.
77 OLED = heaven on earth.
I think I might have to take a hammer to my beloved Kuro if the price keeps dropping.

Regards, Can
My System & Theta Casablanca Mini-Review (CB IVa setup help HERE) Uncontrolled passion for music, and sound.
Interesting Audio Diagrams :-) & High-End Speaker Reviews
JTR Subwoofer Thread I don't always listen to subwoofers, but when I do, it's JTR :-).
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post #10963 of 12707 Old 11-22-2018, 11:53 AM
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1. Any movies, sports, shows on the projector TRANSFORMS the experience. The room however must be very dark, the darker the better. There is no way around this - must be dark.
100% agree with you. i had a hard fall down the rabbit hole after finding & reading through the "blacker the theater, the better the image" thread over on one of the display threads here on avs. putting up triple black velvet on my walls, ceiling & floor has transformed the space and greatly enhanced the quality of the picture. in fact now i cringe a little every time i see a projection setup with painted drywall--so many reflections.

even with a budget projector the difference between light absorbing fabric & a painted hard surface is incredible. although i can't wait to see what i've been missing when i finally upgrade from this glorified power-point projector to something more capable.
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post #10964 of 12707 Old 11-22-2018, 12:08 PM
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$5k is still a tough nut for me to swallow, but I really wanted one of these babies.
Sometimes this is reason enough. If it’s in the budget, I think it’s fine to buy something we really want. It’s why I said my personal preference would be to have both(with cheaper TV). Whichever route you go, good luck and enjoy!!!
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post #10965 of 12707 Old 11-22-2018, 12:38 PM
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Hi,
I finally got it, new captivator 2400 but since I live in a place that uses 240V I had to upgrade the amp to SP1-3200, which means that I got a higher AMP.

anyhow, my question is, how can it affect my subwoofer, since i have a higher output that means something ....?
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post #10966 of 12707 Old 11-22-2018, 03:09 PM
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Hi,
I finally got it, new captivator 2400 but since I live in a place that uses 240V I had to upgrade the amp to SP1-3200, which means that I got a higher AMP.

anyhow, my question is, how can it affect my subwoofer, since i have a higher output that means something ....?
Congratulations!

When we double the power, we get 3dB more output. Therefore, you would be +3dB across if you were to upgrade the amp to a hypothetical 4800W amp (double of 2400W). Upgrading to SP1-3200 would give you about 1dB more output across.

In the grand scheme of things, +1dB across doesn't really mean much.
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post #10967 of 12707 Old 11-22-2018, 03:38 PM
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someone needs to send youthman(youtube) some JTR's. I had a quick chat with him and he apparently wanted to buy some JTR's, sent an email but never got a response.
It would be great exposure for JTR as his channel is growing really fast!
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post #10968 of 12707 Old 11-22-2018, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cannga View Post
77 OLED = heaven on earth.
I think I might have to take a hammer to my beloved Pioneer Kuro if the price keeps dropping.
Oh man, I used to salivate about the Kuro! I do understand your plight, my panny plasma just won’t die. However, I would find an alternate use for that Kuro rather than going all Thor on it.

Todd
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post #10969 of 12707 Old 11-22-2018, 10:49 PM
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Hi,
I finally got it, new captivator 2400 but since I live in a place that uses 240V I had to upgrade the amp to SP1-3200, which means that I got a higher AMP.

anyhow, my question is, how can it affect my subwoofer, since i have a higher output that means something ....?
The 240V SpeakerPower amps are more resistant to the effects of voltage sag, so it's definitely a positive thing to have that version of the amp. That said, Jeff may well be programming the 3200W amp to deliver the same max power as the 2400W model, to maintain driver protection.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
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post #10970 of 12707 Old 11-25-2018, 09:36 AM
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So you've moved the gain from say 9 oclock to max after calibration, and still not getting enough bass? Are your speakers set to small?

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
Yes speakers are set to small and I have moved the gain from 9 to max. The bass is decent but not shaking the way I would like it to be. I have to turn on the dynamic volume and compression to light to get good bass (which I don't like to do). I also have the trim set to -6 but don't want to go to -2.5 as I am worried about clipping. What trim would be good and recommended so that I don't get clipping. Also is changing the distance of the subwoofer from the MLP advisable after Audyssey calibration? I would love to relocate my sub to a different position but am limited on space.
Thanks
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post #10971 of 12707 Old 11-25-2018, 02:43 PM
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Yes speakers are set to small and I have moved the gain from 9 to max. The bass is decent but not shaking the way I would like it to be. I have to turn on the dynamic volume and compression to light to get good bass (which I don't like to do). I also have the trim set to -6 but don't want to go to -2.5 as I am worried about clipping. What trim would be good and recommended so that I don't get clipping. Also is changing the distance of the subwoofer from the MLP advisable after Audyssey calibration? I would love to relocate my sub to a different position but am limited on space.
Thanks
I'm pretty sure as long as you keep the trim below 0, and probably a little above, you'll be fine.
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post #10972 of 12707 Old 11-25-2018, 03:02 PM
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Is my sub amp a problem? I have cap 2400ULF and getting a very low sub volume. I have the gain set at max on the subwoofer and trim at -6 in the Denon receiver. Just have one sub attached to the Denon calibrated by Audyssey at 80 crossover. When calibrating Audyssey sub volume seems fine but not sure (had to set it to 1/4 volume on the sub gain when sub matching was done by Audyssey). Any recommendations please?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mir3acles View Post
Yes speakers are set to small and I have moved the gain from 9 to max. The bass is decent but not shaking the way I would like it to be. I have to turn on the dynamic volume and compression to light to get good bass (which I don't like to do). I also have the trim set to -6 but don't want to go to -2.5 as I am worried about clipping. What trim would be good and recommended so that I don't get clipping. Also is changing the distance of the subwoofer from the MLP advisable after Audyssey calibration? I would love to relocate my sub to a different position but am limited on space.
Thanks

Hi,

I had to go back to your original post from a few days ago to refresh my memory, but it sounds to me as if something is wrong with your subwoofer amplifier or it's DSP. If you have a Cap 2400 ULF at maximum gain, and are getting what you consider to be very little bass, then there is something wrong. You can certainly try increasing the trim level by a few decibels, just as a test, but I wouldn't expect another 5 or 6db to make a dramatic difference if your gain level is already maxed-out.

Let's see if I understand the situation correctly. When you performed the Audyssey calibration, the subwoofer seemed to be working properly, and with 1/4 gain it registered 75db, and set your trim level at about -6 (or did you raise the trim after the Audyssey calibration?). Afterwards, you increased the gain from 1/4 to max, and nothing much happened--the subwoofer didn't get a lot louder? Is that substantially correct?

If it is correct, it doesn't sound like a subwoofer placement issue, or a calibration issue. It sounds as if your amplifier's DSP isn't working properly. Going from 1/4 to max gain should generate an enormous difference in audible and tactile bass. If it doesn't, then either the gain control isn't working properly (more likely) or the amplifier itself isn't working properly (less likely, since it worked fine at 1/4 gain during the Audyssey calibration). I would contact Jeff to seek his advice, but I think you will have to replace the amp along with the associated pre-amp DSP.

Regards,
Mike

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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post #10973 of 12707 Old 11-27-2018, 08:55 AM
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Here's my first attempt at a home theater!!

Yes those are two 2400ULF's
I have them set on 1/2 gain, 1 from max ULF Adjust, and -5db on the Denon receiver right now, and 80hz crossover. There's definitely a couple of movie scenes that I've watched so far that make me think I'm going to break something in the house. I have no idea if that's a good idea or not. Lol. I don't want to break the subs so I have no idea what they can actually handle. Not sure if I want to try.
btw the AudysseyEQ adjusted my subs and made them output very unsatisfactory bass. very similar to a mid-range bose soundbar. What kinda bs is that?



I'm still working on getting a media bench for the center channel. You can definitely tell the the audio is lower than the screen. I think i'm constrained to something like 14 inches high. mayyyybe 15. I'll have to measure again.
ran into a problem with running the cable through the walls. had an I-beam and a pipe with insullation around it which stopped me from running cables on the left side. So I used cable raceways on both sides.
A super crappy part is that I couldn't mount the speakers that are sitting on the subs. the left side has a support pole with no framed wall supports anywhere between the corner and the screen. I figured it would probably be a bad idea to mount a 35lb speaker into drywall with those subs.


I have an important question. I saw you guys a couple of pages ago talking about Audyssey MultiEQ App. Is it worth it to get? Is there anything better?
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Cheers,
Gavin


Subwoofers: 2x JTR Captivator 2400ULF Speakers: 4x PSA MT-110, 1x PSA MTM-210C, 4x Klipsch RP-500SA
Receiver: Denon x4400h Projector: Epson 5400UB
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post #10974 of 12707 Old 11-27-2018, 09:29 AM
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Talking The Beast is in the House...4000ULF LP

Chucky - thank you for all of your help and direction in my purchase of a 4000ULF LP (this is my first JTR purchase) ...it is Bass quality at a level I never experienced before!!!

And Kudos to Jeff for making such a superior quality product...

I will purchase another at some point to balance out the room but for now, the 4000 in the front and nearfield MBM's is moving the house off the foundation...

Best,

Tom
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Last edited by Dr.Tom 2001; 11-27-2018 at 09:33 AM.
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post #10975 of 12707 Old 11-27-2018, 11:14 AM
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@ MisterAmazing

When I calibrated my Denon AVR X-4400H, I started with the 4000ULF's (13 ft away) gain at 12 o'clock (maybe 10 clicks?) and the LF Adjust @ Cut. The Audyssey asked me to turn the gain down to 4 clicks. After auto-calibration, I played some clips but found that bass from these settings is just anemic. The FR I took told me the same thing. IIRC, I was 5 to 8 dB down from 80Hz.

So I measured the FR with higher gains and found that turning it up to 8 clicks yielded the flattest FR below:



That is with the 4000ULF's gain at 8 clicks, and the LF Adjust at Cut (minimum)!

When I use the HT, I turn the gain up another 2 clicks (12 o'clock) and the LF Adjust to Boost (maximum).
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Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 11-27-2018 at 12:00 PM.
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post #10976 of 12707 Old 11-27-2018, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterAmazing View Post
I have an important question. I saw you guys a couple of pages ago talking about Audyssey MultiEQ App. Is it worth it to get? Is there anything better?
The Audyssey MultiEQ App allows the user to tailor the FR. You should find out what your FR is like before spending $20 on the app. Therefore, unless you are already using the REW/UMIK-1, getting it might do more harm than good.
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Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #10977 of 12707 Old 11-27-2018, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Tom 2001 View Post
Chucky - thank you for all of your help and direction in my purchase of a 4000ULF LP (this is my first JTR purchase) ...it is Bass quality at a level I never experienced before!!!

And Kudos to Jeff for making such a superior quality product...

I will purchase another at some point to balance out the room but for now, the 4000 in the front and nearfield MBM's is moving the house off the foundation...


Best,

Tom
You're very welcome, Tom!

I am glad that you can fit at least a 4000ULF in your theater! If you are running Denon/Marantz, my experience with Audyssey tells me that after auto-calibration, you can safely turn up the gain 4 clicks without the bass overwhelming your system.

Hopefully you can get started with REW and run some graphs soon.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #10978 of 12707 Old 11-27-2018, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
The Audyssey MultiEQ App allows the user to tailor the FR. You should find out what your FR is like before spending $20 on the app. Therefore, unless you are already using the REW/UMIK-1, getting it might do more harm than good.
Woaaahhhh. I'm totally going to buy the UMIK-1 and use REW. I had no idea that existed. Thanks Chucky!!!

Cheers,
Gavin


Subwoofers: 2x JTR Captivator 2400ULF Speakers: 4x PSA MT-110, 1x PSA MTM-210C, 4x Klipsch RP-500SA
Receiver: Denon x4400h Projector: Epson 5400UB
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post #10979 of 12707 Old 11-27-2018, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterAmazing View Post
Here's my first attempt at a home theater!!

Yes those are two 2400ULF's
I have them set on 1/2 gain, 1 from max ULF Adjust, and -5db on the Denon receiver right now, and 80hz crossover. There's definitely a couple of movie scenes that I've watched so far that make me think I'm going to break something in the house. I have no idea if that's a good idea or not. Lol. I don't want to break the subs so I have no idea what they can actually handle. Not sure if I want to try.
btw the AudysseyEQ adjusted my subs and made them output very unsatisfactory bass. very similar to a mid-range bose soundbar. What kinda bs is that?



I'm still working on getting a media bench for the center channel. You can definitely tell the the audio is lower than the screen. I think i'm constrained to something like 14 inches high. mayyyybe 15. I'll have to measure again.
ran into a problem with running the cable through the walls. had an I-beam and a pipe with insullation around it which stopped me from running cables on the left side. So I used cable raceways on both sides.
A super crappy part is that I couldn't mount the speakers that are sitting on the subs. the left side has a support pole with no framed wall supports anywhere between the corner and the screen. I figured it would probably be a bad idea to mount a 35lb speaker into drywall with those subs.


I have an important question. I saw you guys a couple of pages ago talking about Audyssey MultiEQ App. Is it worth it to get? Is there anything better?



I found the App very helpful - to cut off the EQ range if something else

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FS: Trinnov Altitude 16
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post #10980 of 12707 Old 11-28-2018, 10:59 AM
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JTR's free shipping promotion ends on November 30th. Get your orders in!

Cyber Week Sale. Extremely limited quantities.

Noesis 228HT $1249 (Normally $1499+shipping).
Single 8HT $699 (Normally $899+shipping).
Captivator 118HT $1599 (Normally $1799+shipping).

The above will get free shipping within Contiguous USA.

No other discounts apply.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 11-28-2018 at 11:04 AM.
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