Official JTR Speakers Subwoofer Thread - Page 367 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #10981 of 13000 Old 11-28-2018, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by mir3acles View Post
Yes speakers are set to small and I have moved the gain from 9 to max. The bass is decent but not shaking the way I would like it to be. I have to turn on the dynamic volume and compression to light to get good bass (which I don't like to do). I also have the trim set to -6 but don't want to go to -2.5 as I am worried about clipping. What trim would be good and recommended so that I don't get clipping. Also is changing the distance of the subwoofer from the MLP advisable after Audyssey calibration? I would love to relocate my sub to a different position but am limited on space.
Thanks
So you're saying the bass is actually WORSE with dynamic volume turned off? That's backwards, and you certainly should not be using dynamic volume period if I'm being honest.

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Originally Posted by drh3b View Post
I'm pretty sure as long as you keep the trim below 0, and probably a little above, you'll be fine.
Nope. At reference on the MV, if your sub trim is set to -10 on D&M units you will see slight clipping of the LFE channel with a WCS (Worst Case Scenario). Very few people listen to movies at full reference level, and there isn't a single real-world movie scene that actually has a full -0.0 WCS requirement, but that's where you will find it regardless. You definitely want to stay a ways below this. Having your sub trim at -5 or lower is certainly prudent to avoid any output clipping in any case.
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post #10982 of 13000 Old 11-28-2018, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
So you're saying the bass is actually WORSE with dynamic volume turned off? That's backwards, and you certainly should not be using dynamic volume period if I'm being honest.



Nope. At reference on the MV, if your sub trim is set to -10 on D&M units you will see slight clipping of the LFE channel with a WCS (Worst Case Scenario). Very few people listen to movies at full reference level, and there isn't a single real-world movie scene that actually has a full -0.0 WCS requirement, but that's where you will find it regardless. You definitely want to stay a ways below this. Having your sub trim at -5 or lower is certainly prudent to avoid any output clipping in any case.
No, the bass improved and was louder with the dynamic volume on. Most certainly I agree that dynamic volume should not be used. I don't like to use it either and have it off.
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post #10983 of 13000 Old 11-28-2018, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi,

I had to go back to your original post from a few days ago to refresh my memory, but it sounds to me as if something is wrong with your subwoofer amplifier or it's DSP. If you have a Cap 2400 ULF at maximum gain, and are getting what you consider to be very little bass, then there is something wrong. You can certainly try increasing the trim level by a few decibels, just as a test, but I wouldn't expect another 5 or 6db to make a dramatic difference if your gain level is already maxed-out.

Let's see if I understand the situation correctly. When you performed the Audyssey calibration, the subwoofer seemed to be working properly, and with 1/4 gain it registered 75db, and set your trim level at about -6 (or did you raise the trim after the Audyssey calibration?). Afterwards, you increased the gain from 1/4 to max, and nothing much happened--the subwoofer didn't get a lot louder? Is that substantially correct?

If it is correct, it doesn't sound like a subwoofer placement issue, or a calibration issue. It sounds as if your amplifier's DSP isn't working properly. Going from 1/4 to max gain should generate an enormous difference in audible and tactile bass. If it doesn't, then either the gain control isn't working properly (more likely) or the amplifier itself isn't working properly (less likely, since it worked fine at 1/4 gain during the Audyssey calibration). I would contact Jeff to seek his advice, but I think you will have to replace the amp along with the associated pre-amp DSP.

Regards,
Mike
Yes the subwoofer seems to work properly while calibrating (or atleast I thought) and with 1/4 gain it registered 75. It set the trim to -11 and then I raised the trim to -6 and max gain on the sub after audyssey calibration. The sub is still giving moderate amount of bass and not the shaking bass I thought I would get even at good master volume level. I will try out some other things and post an update this weekend. Thank you so much for your reply.
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post #10984 of 13000 Old 11-29-2018, 03:35 AM
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Originally Posted by mir3acles View Post
Yes the subwoofer seems to work properly while calibrating (or atleast I thought) and with 1/4 gain it registered 75. It set the trim to -11 and then I raised the trim to -6 and max gain on the sub after audyssey calibration. The sub is still giving moderate amount of bass and not the shaking bass I thought I would get even at good master volume level. I will try out some other things and post an update this weekend. Thank you so much for your reply.
Are you saying you don't feel the bass at your MLP? That could be a null spot maybe? Just curious....is the driver moving in and out or hit hard when you put your finger resting on the surround? Trying to figure out if you mean not enough bass as in driver not moving or just not feeling it from your mlp spot.

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post #10985 of 13000 Old 11-29-2018, 05:15 AM
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Originally Posted by mir3acles View Post
Yes the subwoofer seems to work properly while calibrating (or atleast I thought) and with 1/4 gain it registered 75. It set the trim to -11 and then I raised the trim to -6 and max gain on the sub after audyssey calibration. The sub is still giving moderate amount of bass and not the shaking bass I thought I would get even at good master volume level. I will try out some other things and post an update this weekend. Thank you so much for your reply.

There is clearly something wrong here. So with 1/4 gain on the 2400ULF, your Denon calibrated the sub to -11. All good so far...

You then adjusted the trim in the Denon to -6 (+5db) and turned the 2400ULF gain from 1/4 to max and you are not getting enough bass??? I would be afraid to turn my 2400ULF anywhere past 1/2 gain for fear of physical damage to me and my home.

Are you sure you are adjusting the Gain and not the Low Frequency Adjust (LFA) knobs? Sorry if that sounds like a stupid question but they both look exactly the same and sometimes hard to see on the back of a sub in the shadows...

Last edited by schwaggs; 11-29-2018 at 05:19 AM.
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post #10986 of 13000 Old 11-29-2018, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
JTR's free shipping promotion ends on November 30th. Get your orders in!
I know you don’t work for JTR but your posts do look like you do. Jeff should pay you
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post #10987 of 13000 Old 11-29-2018, 09:22 AM
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I know you don’t work for JTR but your posts do look like you do. Jeff should pay you
I know, right? and I wish...

That is just a friendly reminder. Other than product introduction and clearance (which are product specific), Jeff doesn't really run holiday sales that apply to every item. I thought it would be beneficial for those just a couple hundred dollars way especially when JTR's product prices do not include freight.

BTW, I have asked Jeff if he has considered getting a helper. He said that he would probably have to raise product prices by at least $100. No consumer likes price increases...

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #10988 of 13000 Old 11-29-2018, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
I know, right? and I wish...

That is just a friendly reminder. Other than product introduction and clearance (which are product specific), Jeff doesn't really run holiday sales that apply to every item. I thought it would be beneficial for those just a couple hundred dollars way especially when JTR's product prices do not include freight.

BTW, I have asked Jeff if he has considered getting a helper. He said that he would probably have to raise product prices by at least $100. No consumer likes price increases...
You’d love that, but you’d bust your ass. Imagine the fun you had moving your 4000ULF around the room and multiply that X10, every single day 5 days a week. He’d have to raise prices by that much, but how many would pay it anyway. Plus, he’d be able to move more product out the door in less time. It’s really something he should consider.

DJ
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post #10989 of 13000 Old 11-29-2018, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
I know, right? and I wish...

That is just a friendly reminder. Other than product introduction and clearance (which are product specific), Jeff doesn't really run holiday sales that apply to every item. I thought it would be beneficial for those just a couple hundred dollars way especially when JTR's product prices do not include freight.

BTW, I have asked Jeff if he has considered getting a helper. He said that he would probably have to raise product prices by at least $100. No consumer likes price increases...
Does he build all his products all by himself?
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post #10990 of 13000 Old 11-29-2018, 11:46 AM
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You’d love that, but you’d bust your ass. Imagine the fun you had moving your 4000ULF around the room and multiply that X10, every single day 5 days a week. He’d have to raise prices by that much, but how many would pay it anyway. Plus, he’d be able to move more product out the door in less time. It’s really something he should consider.

DJ
Ha.

My employer has a warehouse so I know Jeff doesn't spend that much time and effort moving cabinets around with a forklift and a pallet jack. IMO, the hardest part of assembly is installing the subwoofer driver into the cabinet without incident.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #10991 of 13000 Old 11-29-2018, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by pda15 View Post
Does he build all his products all by himself?
Yes. CS, design, assembly, QC... You name it.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #10992 of 13000 Old 11-29-2018, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Ha.

My employer has a warehouse so I know Jeff doesn't spend that much time and effort moving cabinets around with a forklift and a pallet jack. IMO, the hardest part of assembly is installing the subwoofer driver into the cabinet without incident.
I don’t understand. You just said he’s a one man shop. Do you think all that stuff moves itself around by magic? Listen, I worked in a warehouse for a major retailer for 9 years. Two wheelers and pallet jacks help, but at the end of the day the cabinets don’t jump into packing material, then hop into the box on their own. There is a great deal of heavy lifting involved. Like I said, there’s no doubt that you’d love it, but by the end of the day your body would know you earned your pay.

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post #10993 of 13000 Old 11-29-2018, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by djreef View Post
I don’t understand. You just said he’s a one man shop. Do you think all that stuff moves itself around by magic? Listen, I worked in a warehouse for a major retailer for 9 years. Two wheelers and pallet jacks help, but at the end of the day the cabinets don’t jump into packing material, then hop into the box on their own. There is a great deal of heavy lifting involved. Like I said, there’s no doubt that you’d love it, but by the end of the day your body would know you earned your pay.

DJ
Yes, I know what you are saying. At work, I just sit at a desk all day so I may have simplified things... What do I know...

All I am saying is that, IMO, the amount of time he spend on putting products together should be more than on moving the cabinets around. Of course, moving stuff around is one thing, and moving stuff around without damaging them is another.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 11-29-2018 at 05:05 PM.
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post #10994 of 13000 Old 11-29-2018, 02:10 PM
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Yes, I know what you are saying. At work, I just sit at a desk all day so I may have simplified things... What do I know...

All I am saying is that IMO, he should spend more time on putting the speakers and subs together, than moving the cabinets around. Of course, moving stuff around is one thing, and moving stuff around without damaging them is another.
Hell, who knows, maybe you could get on with him part time (if your schedule permits). It sounds like it could be good for both of you.

Listen to me ramble. I don’t even know if Jeff’s operation is anywhere near you.

DJ

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post #10995 of 13000 Old 11-29-2018, 02:42 PM
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Hell, who knows, maybe you could get on with him part time (if your schedule permits). It sounds like it could be good for both of you.

Listen to me ramble. I don’t even know if Jeff’s operation is anywhere near you.

DJ
I am sure he will love the weather here in SoCal... He can motor race, uh no, test subwoofers... all year around!

When Jeff was in town for the GTG @ Marc's, he couldn't believe how expensive housing is over here...

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #10996 of 13000 Old 11-29-2018, 03:33 PM
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I am sure he will love the weather here in SoCal... He can motor race, uh no, test subwoofers... all year around!

When Jeff was in town for the GTG @ Marc's, he couldn't believe how expensive housing is over here...
Ya I know. I spent my early years in Reseda/Canoga Park. My family fled from the housing market, there.

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post #10997 of 13000 Old 11-30-2018, 07:40 AM
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Jeff has a transmission crane he uses to load boxes and move cap4000's around. He is super strong and can carry pretty much anything else to where it needs to go.

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post #10998 of 13000 Old 11-30-2018, 08:06 PM
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Just a few hours left...

Regrettably, I didn't take advantage of the JTR subwoofer free shipping promotion this time around...

Instead, I took advantage of the JTR speaker free shipping promotion.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #10999 of 13000 Old 11-30-2018, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Just a few hours left...

Regrettably, I didn't take advantage of the JTR subwoofer free shipping promotion this time around...

Instead, I took advantage of the JTR speaker free shipping promotion.


Oh nice. What did you get?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD
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post #11000 of 13000 Old 11-30-2018, 09:04 PM
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Oh nice. What did you get?

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I will be replacing my front stage with 3 Neosis 228HTs. I almost went for 3 Neosis 212HTs but some lucky bastard beat me to them...

Sent from my desktop computer using keyboard, not my iPhone X
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Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 11-30-2018 at 09:18 PM.
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post #11001 of 13000 Old 11-30-2018, 09:49 PM
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I will be replacing my front stage with 3 Neosis 228HTs. I almost went for 3 Neosis 212HTs but some lucky bastard beat me to them...

Sent from my desktop computer using keyboard, not my iPhone X


You’re going to love them. Get ready to be blown away...
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post #11002 of 13000 Old 12-01-2018, 05:33 AM
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I will be replacing my front stage with 3 Neosis 228HTs. I almost went for 3 Neosis 212HTs but some lucky bastard beat me to them...

Sent from my desktop computer using keyboard, not my iPhone X


Cool man. I hear JTR speakers are even better than their subs.


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Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD
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post #11003 of 13000 Old 12-01-2018, 05:54 AM
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Cool man. I hear JTR speakers are even better than their subs.
Yeah. The $600 1.4″ exit compression driver (B&C DE990TN) sold me. To put it into perspective, the drivers in 1400/2400/4000ULF are around $550/ea. Jeff hand builds each and everyone of his crossovers.

Also, some have commented that my audio system is too focused on < 80Hz. It really never crossed my mind that I would ever need to upgrade my flagship Polk bookshelves and center. I have enjoyed them immensely. The Polk LSiM 703s are also the most neutral (flat) speakers that I have measured in my room, though I have not measured that many.

I really look forward to the 228HTs.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #11004 of 13000 Old 12-01-2018, 08:59 AM
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I have been a fan of Polk since I first heard the SRT system 25yrs ago. I prefer the older models to the new stuff. The company has shifted focus to budget oriented products to maintain sales unlike back in the 90's where they focused on primarily high end. The LSi stuff is still pretty good, but I think You are in for a real eye opener when you get the JTR's...It will probably be your biggest upgrade yet.
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post #11005 of 13000 Old 12-01-2018, 09:32 AM
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I have been a fan of Polk since I first heard the SRT system 25yrs ago. I prefer the older models to the new stuff. The company has shifted focus to budget oriented products to maintain sales unlike back in the 90's where they focused on primarily high end. The LSi stuff is still pretty good, but I think You are in for a real eye opener when you get the JTR's...It will probably be your biggest upgrade yet.
I owned several of the SDA line of speakers, RTA, Monitor as well. They were all great stereo speakers. It took my Wharfedale Opus 2-3 speakers to get me to finally sell the big SDAs. I sometimes find myself looking at well cared for SDAs and thinking about trying to fit them into my life again.
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post #11006 of 13000 Old 12-01-2018, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
To put it into perspective, the drivers in 1400/2400/4000ULF are around $550/ea.
what sub drivers are used these days in those builds? i remember hearing that jtr was using tc sounds but it doesn't look like they're in business anymore.


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post #11007 of 13000 Old 12-01-2018, 01:11 PM
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How do JTR speakers sound for music? How would they do against high end speaker companies? I have always associated JTR with movie theater type speakers, but what about in a high end audio setup?

Greg

Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik F18SEs - SB13 Ultra
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post #11008 of 13000 Old 12-01-2018, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by muscles View Post
How do JTR speakers sound for music? How would they do against high end speaker companies? I have always associated JTR with movie theater type speakers, but what about in a high end audio setup?



Greg


JTR’s roots are in pro-audio. I think you can match them up against the best.


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post #11009 of 13000 Old 12-01-2018, 04:25 PM
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JTR’s roots are in pro-audio. I think you can match them up against the best.


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JTR have a very good reputation around here, and other forums.

While I was not aware of their pro-audio roots. I do remember been corrected that not all pro-speakers, in a JBL thread. Are not created the same, for sound quality, when it come to pro-audio. Since I was always under the impression, that they mainly concentrate on mid frequencies and been not accurate to play louder.

A lesson, that I was vey happy to learn. Some are built to be very accurate, to sound very good And the advantage to play loud.
And JTR do fall in that camp


Ray
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Last edited by darthray; 12-01-2018 at 07:20 PM.
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post #11010 of 13000 Old 12-01-2018, 04:37 PM
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I will be replacing my front stage with 3 Neosis 228HTs. I almost went for 3 Neosis 212HTs but some lucky bastard beat me to them...

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Coming from those speakers I had heard at your place, be ready to be shocked with the clean/loud/dynamic of the compression horn tweeters in those Neosis
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