Official JTR Speakers Subwoofer Thread - Page 374 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #11191 of 12682 Old 12-18-2018, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by serith View Post
what's funny is i don't eat in that room either. magic eraser works wonders though (seriously makes a keyboard feel like new again). but yes i love that keyboard, even if the track-pad is a bit touchy. i've had it for a couple of years and i think i've charged it once or twice.
Oh yeah it is great. I have also only charged it a few times. If you are a heavy mouse user or are using the HTPC to type and all that then it may not be the greatest solution, but for my purposes, it works great.

I will try the magic eraser. Thanks for that.

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post #11192 of 12682 Old 12-18-2018, 09:10 PM
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someone do the math for me. how many captivators do i need to feel bass like this in my room?



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post #11193 of 12682 Old 12-18-2018, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by serith View Post
someone do the math for me. how many captivators do i need to feel bass like this in my room?

https://youtu.be/V3yI7Av8kGw?t=473
That is utter stupidity...

You can achieve it much easier in a closet...

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #11194 of 12682 Old 12-18-2018, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
That is utter stupidity...

You can achieve it much easier in a closet...
haha i know, just came across that video on youtube. have never seen anything like that before though.


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post #11195 of 12682 Old 12-19-2018, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
That is utter stupidity...

You can achieve it much easier in a closet...
Oh, the poor buyer who ends up with that truck...
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post #11196 of 12682 Old 12-19-2018, 04:57 PM
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It's actually the 4000ULF that is holding me back from getting Jeff's more bass capable towers.

Agreed, you are more than covered down low with the 4k. No need to spend extra on towers with more subs. They sure do look bad ass though!
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post #11197 of 12682 Old 12-19-2018, 07:10 PM
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Woah... Rob is selling his 215's? He bought the first 3 215 RT's that Jeff made around 5 years ago.
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post #11198 of 12682 Old 12-20-2018, 04:59 AM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
Woah... Rob is selling his 215's? He bought the first 3 215 RT's that Jeff made around 5 years ago.
yes he is: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/209-a...s-6-500-a.html

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post #11199 of 12682 Old 12-20-2018, 06:42 AM
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^^ I have listened to Rob’s 215’s WITHOUT sub at his place a few years back and they sounded fantastic. They have more bass than lots of power subwoofers out there. $6k for all 3 is crazy great deal plus Rob is a super nice gentleman also. @chucky7 should drive up and pick them up. I know you said you don’t need them. I said it doesn’t hurt having them plus it’s cool to have speakers that are taller than you . I take it back, these speakers can hurt you (your ears)
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post #11200 of 12682 Old 12-20-2018, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
Woah... Rob is selling his 215's? He bought the first 3 215 RT's that Jeff made around 5 years ago.
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Originally Posted by femi View Post
I thought he mentioned he was selling them just to get the brand new editions with the newer CD in them and the additional XO work that's been done, so he was selling these off at a good discount since all that updating couldn't be done to them, but I could be wrong.

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post #11201 of 12682 Old 12-20-2018, 09:09 AM
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^^ I have listened to Rob’s 215’s WITHOUT sub at his place a few years back and they sounded fantastic. They have more bass than lots of power subwoofers out there. $6k for all 3 is crazy great deal plus Rob is a super nice gentleman also. @chucky7 should drive up and pick them up. I know you said you don’t need them. I said it doesn’t hurt having them plus it’s cool to have speakers that are taller than you . I take it back, these speakers can hurt you (your ears)
First, I don't think my family room HT can fit those as my L/R. Even if they fit, I only need 2 and I would need to get a matching center, which would be hard considering they are the 1st gen 215s... The seller probably won't sell me just 2 of the 3.

I prefer to buy new gear, unless I know they are in like new condition.

In addition, I don't have the means to bring those speakers back. The seller likely does not have the packaging. So...

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #11202 of 12682 Old 12-21-2018, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
First, I don't think my family room HT can fit those as my L/R. Even if they fit, I only need 2 and I would need to get a matching center, which would be hard considering they are the 1st gen 215s... The seller probably won't sell me just 2 of the 3.

I prefer to buy new gear, unless I know they are in like new condition.

In addition, I don't have the means to bring those speakers back. The seller likely does not have the packaging. So...
1)Rent a pickup or trailer.

2) Build false wall with A/T screen



Actually, the speakers you have ordered will be pretty awesome. Awaiting your impressions as we tend to focus so much on subs sound here.
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post #11203 of 12682 Old 12-21-2018, 12:02 PM
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1)Rent a pickup or trailer.

2) Build false wall with A/T screen



Actually, the speakers you have ordered will be pretty awesome. Awaiting your impressions as we tend to focus so much on subs sound here.


If I were spending $6000 on speakers, I would definitely want to hear them for a few hours first. There is no 30 day trial buying used gear.

My HT is in my family room, not a dedicated HT area so...

I know the 212HTs are awesome. However, speaker preference is very very personal, much more so than subwoofers. Many high end speakers do not measure ruler flat. Yet audiophiles are drawn to the sound signature they prefer. ID Subwoofer performances are very easy to quantify with CEA 2010 Max Burst.
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Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 12-21-2018 at 09:26 PM.
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post #11204 of 12682 Old 12-21-2018, 08:14 PM
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New member of the JTR club

I’ve been lurking around this thread and a few others over the past month in search of a replacement for my SVS SB16 Ultra. I purchased what I would call my first real sub around 12-14 years ago. It was an SVS PC Ultra. I really loved it, but when SVS announced their new 16 Ultra line of subs I thought it would be a good time to upgrade. Since they didn’t offer a cylinder in the new line up, I had to go with the SB16 as I simply didn’t have the room for a PB.

I really liked the sound of the new sub, very tight and clean. The punch was also a little improved over the PC Ultra as well. I was happy.

Fast forward to November 2018. Although I love the SB16, there are times when I feel the bass just doesn’t dig as deep as I would like. Although I can feel bass on my chest, it just feels a little thin and seems to lack some “deepness”, if that makes sense. So my quest began to see if there might be something better.

As far as my listening area goes, I don’t have a dedicated HT room so my family room serves as both. I have a very open floor plan, with only three walls in the room which opens up to the kitchen and hallway. The total area in the family room and kitchen is around 5000 cf and this doesn’t even include the hallway. The family room dimensions are around 16x16x9. The floor is concrete covered by carpet. Because of all of this, I think I really need a vented sub to move more air. And to make matters worse, I really only have room for one sub. Lastly, 99% of my listening is HT and TV.

As I started my research, I was initially leaning towards the PSA V1811 due to their reputation and customer service. I wrote some emails to Tom which he stated that the 1811 would have twice the output of my SB16. I was very impressed and very close to pulling the trigger but started reading a couple of the GTG threads from SoCal and Houston. There was a very common denominator in both of these threads in that the V1800 line seemed to bottom out near the 20Hz mark. Not bad at all, and a very good sub indeed, but when compared to subs that can dig a bit deeper it seemed unanimous from folks that attended the GTG’s that they much preferred the subs that could go deeper. There also seemed to be a lot of folks that liked the JTR’s for the same reason.

Because of my limited space with regards to sub placement (and WAF), I had narrowed my search down to the JTR CAP 118HT and the new CAP 2400. I was leaning towards the 118 due to the great mid bass output numbers and comments from the GTG’s. It seemed like a very good all-around sub. Buttt, there were also some very good comments on the 2400 as well. I was also very intrigued by those that have noted how the low digging subs improve the overall listening enjoyment even on material that doesn’t dig into the low teens. That being said, I was a little worried I might be sacrificing a little of the mid-bass thump by going with a sub that dug deeper.

So in the end, I chose the 2400 with the thought that it would fill the room better and as Jeff put it, be a better “all around” sub. I just hope I won’t be missing any mid bass chest punch. Jeff completed the build and it was shipped today. It is currently scheduled to arrive late next week.

And finally, a big thanks to all of the folks that contribute to this forum. And I am especially appreciative of the contributions from the GTG’s where people have the ability to compare multiple subs in the same environment. It certainly helped with my decision-making process. I am very much looking forward to being a member of the JTR club.
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post #11205 of 12682 Old 12-21-2018, 10:19 PM
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okay i'm definitely intrigued to run 2 rows of seating now that my rythmik subs are sold and out of the room. @chucky7 was advocating for me to use low profile captivator 4000's in the rear, and i think that might be the best course of action to accommodate an additional row of seating. i measured and i have the space, but i wonder if it's possible for jeff to make the low profile captivator any less deep? @chucky7 mentioned that jeff will alter the dimensions of a speaker for a fee, but is it physically possible to make a LP cap4000 less deep than the current 20.5"? the 20" depth unit will fit but would be very tight to give it breathing room against the rear wall and have the spacing i'd like for the two rows of seating. i have about 22" of depth behind the "back row" when it's fully reclined (played around with the placement of my seating tonight to see what's possible). the idea would be to get a row of either 4 or 5 in the back-row (could run a row of 4 with all having arm-rests, or a row of 5 with arm-rests on the extreme left/right and a "sofa" in the middle 3 seats), and move the existing row of 3 to the front.

i'm open to ideas!

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post #11206 of 12682 Old 12-21-2018, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Ol View Post
I’ve been lurking around this thread and a few others over the past month in search of a replacement for my SVS SB16 Ultra. I purchased what I would call my first real sub around 12-14 years ago. It was an SVS PC Ultra. I really loved it, but when SVS announced their new 16 Ultra line of subs I thought it would be a good time to upgrade. Since they didn’t offer a cylinder in the new line up, I had to go with the SB16 as I simply didn’t have the room for a PB.

I really liked the sound of the new sub, very tight and clean. The punch was also a little improved over the PC Ultra as well. I was happy.

Fast forward to November 2018. Although I love the SB16, there are times when I feel the bass just doesn’t dig as deep as I would like. Although I can feel bass on my chest, it just feels a little thin and seems to lack some “deepness”, if that makes sense. So my quest began to see if there might be something better.

As far as my listening area goes, I don’t have a dedicated HT room so my family room serves as both. I have a very open floor plan, with only three walls in the room which opens up to the kitchen and hallway. The total area in the family room and kitchen is around 5000 cf and this doesn’t even include the hallway. The family room dimensions are around 16x16x9. The floor is concrete covered by carpet. Because of all of this, I think I really need a vented sub to move more air. And to make matters worse, I really only have room for one sub. Lastly, 99% of my listening is HT and TV.

As I started my research, I was initially leaning towards the PSA V1811 due to their reputation and customer service. I wrote some emails to Tom which he stated that the 1811 would have twice the output of my SB16. I was very impressed and very close to pulling the trigger but started reading a couple of the GTG threads from SoCal and Houston. There was a very common denominator in both of these threads in that the V1800 line seemed to bottom out near the 20Hz mark. Not bad at all, and a very good sub indeed, but when compared to subs that can dig a bit deeper it seemed unanimous from folks that attended the GTG’s that they much preferred the subs that could go deeper. There also seemed to be a lot of folks that liked the JTR’s for the same reason.

Because of my limited space with regards to sub placement (and WAF), I had narrowed my search down to the JTR CAP 118HT and the new CAP 2400. I was leaning towards the 118 due to the great mid bass output numbers and comments from the GTG’s. It seemed like a very good all-around sub. Buttt, there were also some very good comments on the 2400 as well. I was also very intrigued by those that have noted how the low digging subs improve the overall listening enjoyment even on material that doesn’t dig into the low teens. That being said, I was a little worried I might be sacrificing a little of the mid-bass thump by going with a sub that dug deeper.

So in the end, I chose the 2400 with the thought that it would fill the room better and as Jeff put it, be a better “all around” sub. I just hope I won’t be missing any mid bass chest punch. Jeff completed the build and it was shipped today. It is currently scheduled to arrive late next week.

And finally, a big thanks to all of the folks that contribute to this forum. And I am especially appreciative of the contributions from the GTG’s where people have the ability to compare multiple subs in the same environment. It certainly helped with my decision-making process. I am very much looking forward to being a member of the JTR club.


Mid bass thump is from loud signal between 50 and 150Hz. This means the subwoofer is only half of the story and you need to have your mains play loud as well. Therefore, you are not going to get mid bass thumb if your MV is -20dB. Furthermore, some people are just more sensitive to mid bass thump.

When I still had the Pioneer SC-1222-k, I have never felt mid bass thump in my home theater, not from the Cap 1400 or even the 4000ULF. The MCACC just did nothing for my FR below 80Hz. Last November, I went to a Katy Perry concert and had my heart stumped for a couple hours. Does this mean JTR subs are not as good as whatever PA subs were used? Of course not. Most PA subs can't produce meaningful output below 30Hz. Then I upgraded my AVR to the Denon X-4400h 3 months ago and Audyssey did a much better job with my FR. I basically got between 5 and 20 more dB from 70 to 130Hz. Now I can feel the mid bass slam much easier. I expect to further improve on this department when I receive the 212HTs, just because they can play much louder.

BTW, my favorite scene for mid bass slam from a recent movie is Mission Impossible: Fall out - Night club scene. I watched it at 4dB higher and there was plenty of it.

The following is a preview of what to expect: I know it is unfair to a sealed sub such as the SB16-Ultra... I just couldn't resist...



< 20Hz, the 2400 is capable of playing more than twice as loud.
25~50Hz, the 2400 equals 2 SB16 Ultra.
> 63Hz, the 2400 has 2/3 more output.
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Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 12-21-2018 at 10:59 PM.
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post #11207 of 12682 Old 12-21-2018, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serith View Post
okay i'm definitely intrigued to run 2 rows of seating now that my rythmik subs are sold and out of the room. @chucky7 was advocating for me to use low profile captivator 4000's in the rear, and i think that might be the best course of action to accommodate an additional row of seating. i measured and i have the space, but i wonder if it's possible for jeff to make the low profile captivator any less deep? @chucky7 mentioned that jeff will alter the dimensions of a speaker for a fee, but is it physically possible to make a LP cap4000 less deep than the current 20.5"? the 20" depth unit will fit but would be very tight to give it breathing room against the rear wall and have the spacing i'd like for the two rows of seating. i have about 22" of depth behind the "back row" when it's fully reclined (played around with the placement of my seating tonight to see what's possible). the idea would be to get a row of either 4 or 5 in the back-row (could run a row of 4 with all having arm-rests, or a row of 5 with arm-rests on the extreme left/right and a "sofa" in the middle 3 seats), and move the existing row of 3 to the front.

i'm open to ideas!

I just measured the picture of the 33mm Xmax driver. It looks like the driver is about 15" deep. Jeff might be able to shave off a couple inches but not too much as the LP cabinet's 20.5" depth also needs to accommodate the port. Of course he could move the port off center but that does not look that great. IMO, it is only worthwhile if you are changing any dimension more than 5 inches.

If you are that tight in space, you are better off:
1. moving the all seating forward a couple inches.
2. getting wall saver recliners (which need only 4" of space).
3. getting regular sofa with matching ottoman.
4. getting bar type seating.
5. putting the subs behind your AT screen.

BTW, with multi-row seatings, people tend to put the second row on a platform.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #11208 of 12682 Old 12-21-2018, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
I just measured the picture of the 33mm Xmax driver. It looks like the driver is about 15" deep. Jeff might be able to shave off a couple inches but not too much as the LP cabinet's 20.5" depth also needs to accommodate the port. Of course he could move the port off center but that does not look that great. IMO, it is only worthwhile if you are changing any dimension more than 5 inches.

If you are that tight in space, you are better off:
1. moving the all seating forward a couple inches.
2. getting wall saver recliners (which need only 4" of space).
3. getting regular sofa with matching ottoman.
4. getting bar type seating.
5. putting the subs behind your AT screen.

BTW, with multi-row seatings, people tend to put the second row on a platform.
the second row i'm looking at is this, which is the same seating i have but 6" taller: https://4seating.com/seatcraft-theat...o-back-row.htm

i can probably just fiddle with the placement of the seating and make do with the depth of the LP captivator. i'd install a riser in a heartbeat if i had taller ceilings. i think the taller seating is the path of least resistance right now. it feels really strange to be in the room sans subwoofers. i'll have to rectify that shortly


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post #11209 of 12682 Old 12-22-2018, 06:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post

Mid bass thump is from loud signal between 50 and 150Hz. This means the subwoofer is only half of the story and you need to have your mains play loud as well. Therefore, you are not going to get mid bass thumb if your MV is -20dB. Furthermore, some people are just more sensitive to mid bass thump.

When I still had the Pioneer SC-1222-k, I have never felt mid bass thump in my home theater, not from the Cap 1400 or even the 4000ULF. The MCACC just did nothing for my FR below 80Hz. Last November, I went to a Katy Perry concert and had my heart stumped for a couple hours. Does this mean JTR subs are not as good as whatever PA subs were used? Of course not. Most PA subs can't produce meaningful output below 30Hz. Then I upgraded my AVR to the Denon X-4400h 3 months ago and Audyssey did a much better job with my FR. I basically got between 5 and 20 more dB from 70 to 130Hz. Now I can feel the mid bass slam much easier. I expect to further improve on this department when I receive the 212HTs, just because they can play much louder.

BTW, my favorite scene for mid bass slam from a recent movie is Mission Impossible: Fall out - Night club scene. I watched it at 4dB higher and there was plenty of it.

The following is a preview of what to expect: I know it is unfair to a sealed sub such as the SB16-Ultra... I just couldn't resist...



< 20Hz, the 2400 is capable of playing more than twice as loud.
25~50Hz, the 2400 equals 2 SB16 Ultra.
> 63Hz, the 2400 has 2/3 more output.

Chucky7, thanks for the response and the graph. Very informative, particularly showing that the 2400 will have increased output throughout the spectrum.

I just happened to watch MI Fallout the other night and you are correct, the night club scene had a lot of chest thump to it - so I think my mains are doing their job ok (could be better) as well as my receiver (Yamaha RX-A3060). Since the 2400 has a much improved output throughout, I assume the weight of the thump above 50 and down low will be improved. That being said, do you think the 118 would have been a better selection?
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post #11210 of 12682 Old 12-22-2018, 12:18 PM
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Mid bass thump is from loud signal between 50 and 150Hz. This means the subwoofer is only half of the story and you need to have your mains play loud as well. Therefore, you are not going to get mid bass thumb if your MV is -20dB. Furthermore, some people are just more sensitive to mid bass thump.

When I still had the Pioneer SC-1222-k, I have never felt mid bass thump in my home theater, not from the Cap 1400 or even the 4000ULF. The MCACC just did nothing for my FR below 80Hz. Last November, I went to a Katy Perry concert and had my heart stumped for a couple hours. Does this mean JTR subs are not as good as whatever PA subs were used? Of course not. Most PA subs can't produce meaningful output below 30Hz. Then I upgraded my AVR to the Denon X-4400h 3 months ago and Audyssey did a much better job with my FR. I basically got between 5 and 20 more dB from 70 to 130Hz. Now I can feel the mid bass slam much easier. I expect to further improve on this department when I receive the 212HTs, just because they can play much louder.

BTW, my favorite scene for mid bass slam from a recent movie is Mission Impossible: Fall out - Night club scene. I watched it at 4dB higher and there was plenty of it.

The following is a preview of what to expect: I know it is unfair to a sealed sub such as the SB16-Ultra... I just couldn't resist...



< 20Hz, the 2400 is capable of playing more than twice as loud.
25~50Hz, the 2400 equals 2 SB16 Ultra.
> 63Hz, the 2400 has 2/3 more output.
I wonder how the Captivator2400 would fair against the PB16ultra, there isn't really any measurements online. They are the same price, JTR has shipping costs. I am sure the JTR has more output, but just wondering how much more???

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post #11211 of 12682 Old 12-22-2018, 12:45 PM
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I just happened to watch MI Fallout the other night and you are correct, the night club scene had a lot of chest thump to it - so I think my mains are doing their job ok (could be better) as well as my receiver (Yamaha RX-A3060). Since the 2400 has a much improved output throughout, I assume the weight of the thump above 50 and down low will be improved. That being said, do you think the 118 would have been a better selection?
The 118 compared to the 2400 is similar to a 15" sub vs a 18" sub.

When people are limited by budget, WAF or placement, they go with a smaller sub. While the bassheads here love to spend other people's money, $2000 is already a lot for people not into making their HT the best in the block. Some might use the system for music and don't care for the ULF so Cap 118 is perfect for them. The 16~19Hz port tune is very popular for a reason - it allows the ported sub to handle 95% of the content out there without using a huge cabinet, a high excursion driver and a high power amp. There are many extremely happy Cap 1400 owners out there.

In the 2400, you are getting a 10Hz tuned sub that is very compact. To put it into perspective, the 2400 is a 18" sub in the size of the SVS PB13-Ultra. It is extremely rare. When bassheads upgrade subs, they want to get better extension and/or more output. The owners would have to get rid of whatever ported subs they had, which is very hard to do. With the 10Hz tuned 2400, you have a better upgrade path. You have the extension covered, so just add more if you need more output.

The SB16-Ultra is a fine sub but it is limited by its size. You also paid a lot for its perks. When people get a more capable sub, they tend to turn it up a bit because more headroom means less THD and actually makes the bass sound weaker at the same MV. Even when a sealed is level matched with a ported (typically between 50~100Hz), the ported will have more output and sound more impactful from 16~32Hz. Then 2400's huge output advantage and TR in the ULF will make your s-h-i-t in your pants...

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post #11212 of 12682 Old 12-22-2018, 01:04 PM
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I wonder how the Captivator2400 would fair against the PB16ultra, there isn't really any measurements online. They are the same price, JTR has shipping costs. I am sure the JTR has more output, but just wondering how much more???
There is actually... https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofe...ltra-subwoofer



> 40Hz, the Cap 2400 has at least 50% more output.
From 16~32Hz, the PB16-Ultra has a slight advantage.
Below 12Hz... there is simply no comparison...
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post #11213 of 12682 Old 12-22-2018, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
The 118 compared to the 2400 is similar to a 15" sub vs a 18" sub.

When people are limited by budget, WAF or placement, they go with a smaller sub. While the bassheads here love to spend other people's money, $2000 is already a lot for people not into making their HT the best in the block. Some might use the system for music and don't care for the ULF so Cap 118 is perfect for them. The 16~19Hz port tune is very popular for a reason - it allows the ported sub to handle 95% of the content out there without using a huge cabinet, a high excursion driver and a high power amp. There are many extremely happy Cap 1400 owners out there.

In the 2400, you are getting a 10Hz tuned sub that is very compact. To put it into perspective, the 2400 is a 18" sub in the size of the SVS PB13-Ultra. It is extremely rare. When bassheads upgrade subs, they want to get better extension and/or more output. The owners would have to get rid of whatever tuned ported subs they had, which is very hard to do. With the 10Hz tuned 2400, you have a better upgrade path. You have the extension covered, so just add more if you need more output.

The SB16-Ultra is a fine sub but it is limited by its size. You also paid a lot for its perks. When people get a more capable sub, they tend to turn it up a bit because more headroom means less THD and actually makes the bass sound weaker at the same MV. Even when a sealed is level matched with a ported (typically between 50~100Hz), the ported will have more output and sound more impactful from 16~32Hz. Then 2400's huge output advantage and TR in the ULF will make your s-h-i-t in your pants...

Thanks chucky7! As usual, your post is very helpful and gives me a warm fuzzy that I made the right decision. The only thing I didn't account for was having to order more underwear. I'll tell the wife to order us some for Christmas.
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post #11214 of 12682 Old 12-23-2018, 07:42 AM
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Thanks chucky7! As usual, your post is very helpful and gives me a warm fuzzy that I made the right decision. The only thing I didn't account for was having to order more underwear. I'll tell the wife to order us some for Christmas.

As a fellow 2400 owner, I agree that you chose wisely!


You never have to question whether you should have gone bigger. If you want a 4000, just buy a second 2400! The 2400 is a no holds barred, flexible building block sub.


The other thing to consider with TR is your room interaction. My room creates quite a trough around 70 hz so without testing with REW and tuning with the Mini HD 2x4, my setup didn't provide very good TR. The built in room EQ on most SVS subs are convenient but adding a mic and 2x4HD to your JTR setup for a few hundred is much more flexible than the SVS setup to identify and address this room EQ.


You will not be disappointed with the 2400. It is capable of some very loud, very accurate, very violent bass. It added a whole new dimension to movie watching for me. I wouldn't change a thing other than getting a second some day!
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post #11215 of 12682 Old 12-23-2018, 11:46 AM
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You never have to question whether you should have gone bigger. If you want a 4000, just buy a second 2400! The 2400 is a no holds barred, flexible building block sub.

correct me if i'm wrong but i don't think there's as much value to be had in going with multiple 2400's vs multiple 4000's (assuming you want as much output as possible). you're paying a premium for the extra cabinetry and amplifiers (if you were buying multiple 2400s to reach the output a single or multiple 4000s). if you want as much output as possible the 4000s seem to make more sense financially. i say that as i've contemplated doing the same myself to save floor space without giving up output.


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post #11216 of 12682 Old 12-23-2018, 12:29 PM
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correct me if i'm wrong but i don't think there's as much value to be had in going with multiple 2400's vs multiple 4000's (assuming you want as much output as possible). you're paying a premium for the extra cabinetry and amplifiers (if you were buying multiple 2400s to reach the output a single or multiple 4000s). if you want as much output as possible the 4000s seem to make more sense financially. i say that as i've contemplated doing the same myself to save floor space without giving up output.
Hi,

I don't think you are wrong at all. But, the phrase I bolded is the key, in my opinion. Not everyone wants as much output as possible. Most people probably want to have enough output, and even a little more than enough output. Most of us certainly want to have enough output that we can have all of the bass we will ever need without having to worry about compression, distortion, or port chuffing. But, we will all define how much is enough in at least slightly different ways. And, many people may also want that output in a more flexible form factor, and at a more affordable price, than the Cap 4000 can offer.

I don't see a right answer or a wrong answer here. To me, it's a little bit like some discussions from a few months ago, when some people on the thread were comparing Orbit Shifters to Cap 4000's. I think the fact that different people can achieve their personal objectives with different models (and makes) of subwoofers is a good thing. Our individual diversity of objective and preference can be matched with the available diversity of subwoofer models. For many people, one or two Cap 2400's can be a great choice. For people who want as much output as possible, subwoofers like the Cap 4000 ULF are available.

Regards,
Mike
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post #11217 of 12682 Old 12-23-2018, 12:42 PM
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Hi,

I don't think you are wrong at all. But, the phrase I bolded is the key, in my opinion. Not everyone wants as much output as possible. Most people probably want to have enough output, and even a little more than enough output. Most of us certainly want to have enough output that we can have all of the bass we will ever need without having to worry about compression, distortion, or port chuffing. But, we will all define how much is enough in at least slightly different ways. And, many people may also want that output in a more flexible form factor, and at a more affordable price, than the Cap 4000 can offer.

I don't see a right answer or a wrong answer here. To me, it's a little bit like some discussions from a few months ago, when some people on the thread were comparing Orbit Shifters to Cap 4000's. I think the fact that different people can achieve their personal objectives with different models (and makes) of subwoofers is a good thing. Our individual diversity of objective and preference can be matched with the available diversity of subwoofer models. For many people, one or two Cap 2400's can be a great choice. For people who want as much output as possible, subwoofers like the Cap 4000 ULF are available.

Regards,
Mike
you say that but if you're purchasing 2400's you're basically at or near the end-game. i'd reckon current owners of the 2400 thought long and hard about how to fit a 4000 both into their budget and into their room


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post #11218 of 12682 Old 12-23-2018, 01:07 PM
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As a fellow 2400 owner, I agree that you chose wisely!


You never have to question whether you should have gone bigger. If you want a 4000, just buy a second 2400! The 2400 is a no holds barred, flexible building block sub.


The other thing to consider with TR is your room interaction. My room creates quite a trough around 70 hz so without testing with REW and tuning with the Mini HD 2x4, my setup didn't provide very good TR. The built in room EQ on most SVS subs are convenient but adding a mic and 2x4HD to your JTR setup for a few hundred is much more flexible than the SVS setup to identify and address this room EQ.


You will not be disappointed with the 2400. It is capable of some very loud, very accurate, very violent bass. It added a whole new dimension to movie watching for me. I wouldn't change a thing other than getting a second some day!

Thanks for your insight! I appreciate it.
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post #11219 of 12682 Old 12-23-2018, 01:37 PM
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Hi,

I don't think you are wrong at all. But, the phrase I bolded is the key, in my opinion. Not everyone wants as much output as possible. Most people probably want to have enough output, and even a little more than enough output. Most of us certainly want to have enough output that we can have all of the bass we will ever need without having to worry about compression, distortion, or port chuffing. But, we will all define how much is enough in at least slightly different ways. And, many people may also want that output in a more flexible form factor, and at a more affordable price, than the Cap 4000 can offer.

I don't see a right answer or a wrong answer here. To me, it's a little bit like some discussions from a few months ago, when some people on the thread were comparing Orbit Shifters to Cap 4000's. I think the fact that different people can achieve their personal objectives with different models (and makes) of subwoofers is a good thing. Our individual diversity of objective and preference can be matched with the available diversity of subwoofer models. For many people, one or two Cap 2400's can be a great choice. For people who want as much output as possible, subwoofers like the Cap 4000 ULF are available.

Regards,
Mike

Good points Mike. It's great that JTR (and others) have provided us with options to choose from. For me, it was all about wanting an improved listening experience that would fit in my room (WAF) and not necessarily about having maximum output. But that's just me and my situation and others will have other deciding factors - which is again great to have those options available.
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post #11220 of 12682 Old 12-23-2018, 01:42 PM
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you say that but if you're purchasing 2400's you're basically at or near the end-game. i'd reckon current owners of the 2400 thought long and hard about how to fit a 4000 both into their budget and into their room
I'll chime in my thoughts as I recently went through a similar purchase decision exercise. I was considering a pair of Cap 4000LPs, but ended up going with a pair of 2400s.

If going multiple subs, the Cap 4000s at $3,500 each provide some serious economies of scale to accomplish end game subs. With two 4000s being $7K and two 2400s being $5K (both $ before shipping and possible multiple pricing discounts), the 4000s are providing twice the subs for much less than twice the price. Two 4000s is 30% savings over four 2400s and while gaining the same amount of subs (if stacked/co-located). Cost was my last purchasing factor because I have learned in life that if you don't buy what you want now (even if it costs more), you will eventually (and probably spend more in doing so). Do it once, do it right. Quality is cheap at any price. I figured the 4000s all the way, but ended up not so much for MY circumstances. The 4000s are just too big for my current room. My HT is in my living room and contends with lots of other ongoing activities. Jeff just released the 2400s with the 10Hz port tune at the time of my decision. His new design provides so much output into such a small package (relatively speaking size wise). Sub placement for my situation was probably the leading consideration, and the 2400s checked that box. The 2400s work well in my current room and should fit well into our next house. I am currently VERY satisfied with the dual 2400s in my current room/house and feel that it gives me everything that "I" need/want. They literally flex the walls (framed pictures vibrate about an inch) and make the couch levitate (without lift off). Besides, as @schwaggs mentioned, one can always add more. If desired, I could always add addition 2400s or even 4000s (all same port tune) if I am lacking in the future house.

That being said, if you can swing it, go with the three 4000s. Jeff makes amazing speakers and subs and you will love them! Like if hear him quoted, you can always turn them down if it's too much, LOL.
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