Official JTR Speakers Subwoofer Thread - Page 375 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #11221 of 12698 Old 12-23-2018, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by serith View Post
you say that but if you're purchasing 2400's you're basically at or near the end-game. i'd reckon current owners of the 2400 thought long and hard about how to fit a 4000 both into their budget and into their room
In terms of output per dollar, the 4000ULF has been at the top of my chart since it was tested on Data-bass. Compared with the 2400 and 2400ULF, the 4000ULF costs 46% and 32% more but produces 127% more output. Either the 4000ULF tested really well, or the 2400ULF should have tested better. Also, it seems each driver in the 4000ULF is able to see more cabinet volume than 1/2 of the cabinet, therefore creating a 'ego sum qui sum' or 'the whole is greater than the sum of its parts' situation. It's definitely worthwhile to supersize from the 2400ULF to the 4000ULF!

Many people use the family room as the HT so the 2400/2400ULF's footprint is much more feasible. I have been advocating the 4000ULF but IIRC only one member here ultimately chose the 4000ULF over a pair of 2400/2400ULF.

You are upgrading from 6 15" drivers with 5400W of power so going with the 4000ULFs makes more sense.
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Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 12-26-2018 at 11:53 AM.
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post #11222 of 12698 Old 12-23-2018, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by BassMojo View Post
I have learned in life that if you don't buy what you want now (even if it costs more), you will eventually (and probably spend more in doing so).
indeed. i'm living proof of that. thankfully the mistake didn't cost that much.

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Originally Posted by BassMojo View Post
I am currently VERY satisfied with the dual 2400s in my current room/house and feel that it gives me everything that "I" need/want.
i've yet to read a single negative review from a 2400/4000 owner. happy to see the trend continue.

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That being said, if you can swing it, go with the three 4000s.
that's the plan.
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post #11223 of 12698 Old 12-23-2018, 02:11 PM
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My understanding of the theory is going from one to two drivers will improve system sensitivity by 3dB. Which may explain the performance difference.

Edit: please disregard, that would be 3dB expected by doubling driver area, the other 3dB coming from doubling the amp power.

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post #11224 of 12698 Old 12-23-2018, 03:02 PM
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@serith ,

Don't forget, for a $500 fee, Jeff can also do a Captivator 6000ULF, which has 2 21" drivers, 6000W amp, 10Hz tuned (maybe lower) in a 60" H x 40"W x 25"D cabinet, for $4,599...

2 of these Cap 6000ULFs + $500 design fee will be $800 less than 3 Cap 4000ULFs...

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 12-23-2018 at 03:18 PM.
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post #11225 of 12698 Old 12-23-2018, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
@serith ,

Don't forget, for a $500 fee, Jeff can also do a Captivator 6000ULF, which has 2 21" drivers, 6000W amp, 10Hz tuned (maybe lower) in a 60" H x 40"W x 25"D cabinet, for $4,599...

2 of these Cap 6000ULFs + $500 design fee will be $800 less than 3 Cap 4000ULFs...
don't toy with my emotions... LOL

are you serious? a cap 6000? why have i never heard of this before? does anyone own one? are the drivers of the same family?
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post #11226 of 12698 Old 12-23-2018, 03:30 PM
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Im curious @serith what spl he was getting with the fv25's? 130db? 135? and what your goal spl is? my goal was 130db and I couldnt get there with my car audio passion I kept going til 150db's...threw dual rf bdi 1500s in bridged mode at some eclipse titanium subs at 1 ohm...152 db's on dash with termlab mic...my windshield flexed so much it almost popped out my car. 130db ok...but 145 probably where you want to be if your room can take it. good luck on the journey. math can probably dictate what you need.

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post #11227 of 12698 Old 12-23-2018, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by torii View Post
Im curious @serith what spl he was getting with the fv25's? 130db? 135? and what your goal spl is? my goal was 130db and I couldnt get there with my car audio passion I kept going til 150db's...threw dual rf bdi 1500s in bridged mode at some eclipse titanium subs at 1 ohm...152 db's on dash with termlab mic...my windshield flexed so much it almost popped out my car. 130db ok...but 145 probably where you want to be if your room can take it. good luck on the journey. math can probably dictate what you need.
from 13' away the psa towers measured around 120db, and were closer to 130db when you put the mic near them. i had some graphs for the subs when i played around with rew but at port frequency they were flirting with 130db iirc. i've never been one for graphs & numbers, i just want the room to sound & feel good (to me).

i'm not trying to lose my hearing either, i just want (much) louder infrasonic output. the rythmiks did a great job in the 20-40hz range (i don't like bass much above that, as it's too thumpy/boomy for me personally but to each their own).

i think @chucky7 is trolling me with that cap6000... i can't find any mention of it online? surely if it's real there must be one out in the wild somewhere?
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post #11228 of 12698 Old 12-23-2018, 03:51 PM
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gunfire always been whats hurt my ears the most...20+ yrs in military somehow bass doesnt bother me. we blew up 200 lbs of c4 once after a deployment and broke 17 windows in the closest village that we had to replace...I actually saw the pressure wave moving at me and I ducked thinking it would miss me...nope...but it was the most memorable thing. left a huge hole in the ground...sometimes I miss the military.


well that and exodus concerts at 930 club in dc
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post #11229 of 12698 Old 12-23-2018, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by torii View Post
gunfire always been whats hurt my ears the most...20+ yrs in military somehow bass doesnt bother me. we blew up 200 lbs of c4 once after a deployment and broke 17 windows in the closest village that we had to replace...I actually saw the pressure wave moving at me and I ducked thinking it would miss me...nope...but it was the most memorable thing. left a huge hole in the ground...sometimes I miss the military.


well that and exodus concerts at 930 club in dc
how is your hearing now? do you have tinnitus from the gunfire or explosions? i listened to the psa towers with a friend a little too loud one night for just 5 minutes or so (a single led zeppelin son "fool in the rain"), and it was enough to make my ears ring for a couple of days. if i remember we had it turned up to -3db or so and it was giving my 700watt phase linear quite the workout. it sounded amazingly clear and it was effortless to listen to though. horn speakers should probably come with a warning label. lesson learned.
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post #11230 of 12698 Old 12-23-2018, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by serith View Post
Don't toy with my emotions... LOL

Are you serious? A cap 6000? Why have I never heard of this before? Does anyone own one? Are the drivers of the same family?
Where do you think I got the idea for the following from?

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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
S21: 21", 24" H x 24" W x 18" D, 2400W sealed sub for $2799?
S221: Dual 21", 24" H x 48" W x 18" D, 4000W sealed sub for $3999?

I looked at the price difference between the S1 and S221, then applied that towards the Cap 4000ULF. We are looking at $700 more for 2 21" drivers, $100 more for a larger cabinet, $340 more for the 6000W amp... $3,499 + $700 + $100 + $340 = $4,639. If SpeakerPower offered a 12000W plate amp, it would have been even cheaper for a master and slave configuration. Normally I don't recommend the master and slave as the purpose of going multiple is to be able to adjust them individually to provide the best FR. Since you don't really adjust them and plan to just put them at the back of your HT, the master and slave configuration works perfectly for you.

Of course nobody has one... However, this is Jeff we are talking about... For the same $500 fee, why just modify the cabinet dimensions when you can get something even more extreme? I don't know if the 21" driver is from the same manufacturer of the 33mm Xmax driver. However, Jeff would only use the drivers that fit his design goal. Therefore you won't be missing out on the TR.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #11231 of 12698 Old 12-23-2018, 04:03 PM
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I have tinnitus pretty bad. probably 12 hrs out of 18 that I am awake. my hearing tests are good tho....17khz is where I am deaf but Im only 46. the youtube video hearing tests with my headphones Im deaf at 15k and on my focal towers at 13k...so IDK why all the differences. on my official hearing test in soundbooth I have a bunch of -5 and -10 dbs...the dr that runs the test says im avg to above avg....

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post #11232 of 12698 Old 12-23-2018, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Where do you think I got the idea for the following from?


I looked at the price difference between the S1 and S221, then applied that towards the Cap 4000ULF. We are looking at $700 more for 2 21" drivers, $100 more for a larger cabinet, $340 more for the 6000W amp... $3,499 + $700 + $100 + $340 = $4,639. If SpeakerPower offered a 12000W plate amp, it would have been even cheaper for a master and slave configuration. Normally I don't recommend the master and slave as the purpose of going multiple is to be able to adjust them individually to provide the best FR. Since you don't really adjust them and plan to just put them at the back of your HT, the master and slave configuration works perfectly for you.

Of course nobody has one... However, this is Jeff we are talking about... For the same $500 fee, why just modify the cabinet dimensions when you can get something even more extreme? I don't know if the 21" driver is from the same manufacturer of the 33mm Xmax driver. However, Jeff would only use the drivers that fit his design goal. Therefore you won't be missing out on the TR.
as tempting as that sounds i think dual/tri cap 4000's in my space is probably going to be enough for quite a while. i really don't like buying something and being a beta tester for said product (e.g., people that buy a newly refreshed car model without waiting to see what problems/opinions others have). i'm 95% sold on (3) LP cap 4000's, but now that i have the cash in my hand it is definitely harder to turn around and spend all of it when i have other projects i want to get done (finish my laundry room & some misc. outdoor stuff). it was much easier just paying for the rythmik subs electronically without seeing the cash flow through my hands. granted i paid them off instantly but i'd be lying if i said parting with 7k isn't noticeable. that's about what it cost me to build my 20x26' pole-barn this summer


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post #11233 of 12698 Old 12-23-2018, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by serith View Post
correct me if i'm wrong but i don't think there's as much value to be had in going with multiple 2400's vs multiple 4000's (assuming you want as much output as possible). you're paying a premium for the extra cabinetry and amplifiers (if you were buying multiple 2400s to reach the output a single or multiple 4000s). if you want as much output as possible the 4000s seem to make more sense financially. i say that as i've contemplated doing the same myself to save floor space without giving up output.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that the 2400ULF was the way to go to build a max-output system. You are indeed correct in that if you can fit the 4000 in your floorplan, it is the most cost effective path to max output.

What I was trying to say is you can get to the same output with 2400s as 4000s. As others have pointed out, it isn't the cheapest path but it is a path where you never have to sell and buy something different (the building block concept). Additionally, in some cases you can end up with much more even F/R by having the option to place drivers in more locations around your listening room.
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post #11234 of 12698 Old 12-24-2018, 09:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post


If I were spending $6000 on speakers, I would definitely want to hear them for a few hours first. There is no 30 day trial buying used gear.

My HT is in my family room, not a dedicated HT area so...

I know the 212HTs are awesome. However, speaker preference is very very personal, much more so than subwoofers. Many high end speakers do not measure ruler flat. Yet audiophiles are drawn to the sound signature they prefer. ID Subwoofer performances are very easy to quantify with CEA 2010 Max Burst.

Truer words have not been spoken. :-) Exactly as you wrote, I wear a completely different hat when evaluating speakers. Cone/dome versus CD/horn versus AMT versus Ribbon - each has distinctly different subjective sound signature that cannot be predicted from any measurement. One simply has to listen in person, or have multiple setups each using different type if you like them all. For me, high-end shows (like the one in Los Angeles) and audio society meetings at local stores (like those organized by the LA Audio Society) are great options to compare the sound character of speakers.

I should add system tuning such as different target curves (aka equalizer) and choices of preamp and power amp, etc., could also alter the sound significantly.

Happy & Safe Holidays to all, JTR fan or not!
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My System & Theta Casablanca Mini-Review (CB IVa setup help HERE) Uncontrolled passion for music, and sound.
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post #11235 of 12698 Old 12-24-2018, 02:01 PM
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After months of trying to integrate my S1 with dual HSU ULS-15 mk2’s I finally took the advice of this group and sold my 2 HSU’s to a lucky buyer.

In their place, I just ordered another S1 from Jeff (great guy) to go dual subs! This group has a profound effect!

I owe my decision partly to my ocd of wanting to have matching subs. Not sure what to expect yet of changing out dual 15’s to an 18.’ Hoping not to lose too much musicality or midbass as the HSU’s worked really well with music.
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Subs: JTR Captivator S1 x2 Speakers: KEF R300 (L/R), KEF R600c (Center), KEF Ci160QR x4 (Atmos), Dynaudio Audience 50 (Surrounds) Processor/Amps: Anthem AVM60, Anthem MCA325, Rotel RB985 mkII Misc: Samsung K8500, ATV 4k, Sony PS4, MiniDSP 2x4HD Video: BenQ HT2050, 100” Screen Room: 2500 cu sq. ft. sealed on suspended floor
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post #11236 of 12698 Old 12-24-2018, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by leehan76 View Post

I owe my decision partly to my ocd of wanting to have matching subs.
congrats! i also have the same OCD wanting to keep them all the same. i know you can technically get different make/model subs to blend together but it's not my cup of tea.
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post #11237 of 12698 Old 12-24-2018, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by leehan76 View Post
After months of trying to integrate my S1 with dual HSU ULS-15 mk2’s I finally took the advice of this group and sold my 2 HSU’s to a lucky buyer.

In their place, I just ordered another S1 from Jeff (great guy) to go dual subs! This group has a profound effect!

I owe my decision partly to my ocd of wanting to have matching subs. Not sure what to expect yet of changing out dual 15’s to an 18.’ Hoping not to lose too much musicality or midbass as the HSU’s worked really well with music.
The Hsu's, although a great sub for the price, have a much steeper roll off below 20 Hz than the S1. This would have been causing cancellation between the Hsu's and the Cap. I heard an S2 at a nearby forum members house in a decent sized room....I seriously doubt you will be left wanting in any way with dual S1's, mid bass or anywhere else. Two S1's should have a small advantage over a single S2. If you do find yourself ever wanting a bit more mid bass slam, just add a PA460 or two for next to nothing.
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post #11238 of 12698 Old 12-25-2018, 10:34 AM
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Watching the equalizer 2 with the family on Christmas morning while my girlfriend is getting ready upstairs.

Still nothing better than dual cap 2400s. 😂👌🏼😜

My parents say they’re “just spectacular” and “better than the movies!”

So much fun! That’s what it’s all about.

Merry Christmas everyone!
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post #11239 of 12698 Old 12-25-2018, 10:37 PM
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is the output identical between the standard cap4000 and the low profile version? something in my brain just can't believe that they're exactly the same. are there any owners of the cap4000 lp on this forum? every owner i've found or read about has the standard depth unit. initially i was completely sold on the idea of getting (3) standard depth units and laying them on their sides behind my single row of seating, but ever since selling the rythmik subs and seeing what 2 rows of seating actually looks like i'm very open to the idea of going with (3) low-profile units so i can squeeze in a 2nd row of seats. another huge benefit is that the amplifiers would be on the sides of the units and not jammed up against the rear wall. i can use a flat ICE power cord to make sure the subs are as close to the rear wall as possible which will be a great help in fitting the 2 rows of seating. the only negative is that the front row (MLP) won't have as much tactile energy as the rear row as that row of furniture will be sucking up a large chunk of the tactile/particle energy and is not the ideal listening position relative to all of the speaker placements in the room (the front row would be the MLP).

the real question is this. will i have more tactile/particle energy in the front row with (3) captivator 4000's pushing energy through (essentially) 2 rows of seating, versus what i had with (3) rythmik fv25's pushing energy through 1 row? i think it might be a wash? i sold the rythmik's primarily to chase that feeling. if i'm only going to really experience the benefit of the captivators with 1 row of seating i'll just get (3) standard depth units and lay them on their sides. this option actually intrigues me more because i can easily add more subs in the future (i could have as many as 9 stacked on top of each-other--3 in each row laying horizontally). with the low profile units i can only ever have 3 as i have no other placement options in the room right now. i thought i might be able to add some LP units behind the screen but the depth of the 4000LP is similar to that of the fv25's and they were also too deep. i'd have to move the faux-wall out quite a bit to pull that off and it's not something i'd like to do as the screen would move forward and be too close for the front row of seating. adding any LP units to the side walls would result in a small obstruction of the screen from the extreme left/right seats in the rear row.

sorry for all of the questions/doubts, just trying to write out my thoughts before i pull the trigger and make a decision. the room is basically unusable without subwoofers right now and i'd like to rectify that. i'm open to any ideas i haven't thought of too.


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post #11240 of 12698 Old 12-25-2018, 11:00 PM
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is the output identical between the standard cap4000 and the low profile version? something in my brain just can't believe that they're exactly the same. are there any owners of the cap4000 lp on this forum?
Yes, because all he is doing is rearranging the shape of the box, not changing the size. I suppose it's possible boundary gain might be slightly different if the drivers are a different distance from the floor and walls.
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post #11241 of 12698 Old 12-25-2018, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by serith View Post
is the output identical between the standard cap4000 and the low profile version? something in my brain just can't believe that they're exactly the same. are there any owners of the cap4000 lp on this forum? every owner i've found or read about has the standard depth unit. initially i was completely sold on the idea of getting (3) standard depth units and laying them on their sides behind my single row of seating, but ever since selling the rythmik subs and seeing what 2 rows of seating actually looks like i'm very open to the idea of going with (3) low-profile units so i can squeeze in a 2nd row of seats. another huge benefit is that the amplifiers would be on the sides of the units and not jammed up against the rear wall. i can use a flat ICE power cord to make sure the subs are as close to the rear wall as possible which will be a great help in fitting the 2 rows of seating. the only negative is that the front row (MLP) won't have as much tactile energy as the rear row as that row of furniture will be sucking up a large chunk of the tactile/particle energy and is not the ideal listening position relative to all of the speaker placements in the room (the front row would be the MLP).

the real question is this. will i have more tactile/particle energy in the front row with (3) captivator 4000's pushing energy through (essentially) 2 rows of seating, versus what i had with (3) rythmik fv25's pushing energy through 1 row? i think it might be a wash? i sold the rythmik's primarily to chase that feeling. if i'm only going to really experience the benefit of the captivators with 1 row of seating i'll just get (3) standard depth units and lay them on their sides. this option actually intrigues me more because i can easily add more subs in the future (i could have as many as 9 stacked on top of each-other--3 in each row laying horizontally). with the low profile units i can only ever have 3 as i have no other placement options in the room right now. i thought i might be able to add some LP units behind the screen but the depth of the 4000LP is similar to that of the fv25's and they were also too deep. i'd have to move the faux-wall out quite a bit to pull that off and it's not something i'd like to do as the screen would move forward and be too close for the front row of seating. adding any LP units to the side walls would result in a small obstruction of the screen from the extreme left/right seats in the rear row.

sorry for all of the questions/doubts, just trying to write out my thoughts before i pull the trigger and make a decision. the room is basically unusable without subwoofers right now and i'd like to rectify that. i'm open to any ideas i haven't thought of too.
The Cap 4000ULF regular and LP have the same performance because they have the same drivers, amp, internal cabinet volume, port tune and port length and area. If fact, the LP cabinet is more costly to make and it was $100 more when it was first introduced.

You are complicating matters...

Just think of it this way:

If you go with the regular version, you can NEVER get a second row of seating. If you put them at the back of the room, you're giving up the rear 3.5 ft of room length.

If you go with the LP version, you can put it VNR (giving up the 2nd row of seating), or at the back wall and still get a second row of seating, or behind the screen. Your PSA tower speakers are 16" deep so you only need to move the screen out 5 inches . Just make the screen a little smaller.

I am sure you know that a 120" screen 10 ft away is perceived the same as a 96" screen 8 ft away, right?

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

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post #11242 of 12698 Old 12-26-2018, 06:39 AM
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"the real question is this. will i have more tactile/particle energy in the front row with (3) captivator 4000's pushing energy through (essentially) 2 rows of seating, versus what i had with (3) rythmik fv25's pushing energy through 1 row? i think it might be a wash? i sold the rythmik's primarily to chase that feeling. if i'm only going to really experience the benefit of the captivators with 1 row of seating i'll just get (3) standard depth units and lay them on their sides."

The rule of thumb to experience very near field effects is to have the seating within the diameter of the drivers, in this case 18". I dont see how you would get the same effect if the subs are placed 6 or 7 feet behind you.

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post #11243 of 12698 Old 12-26-2018, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serith View Post
is the output identical between the standard cap4000 and the low profile version? something in my brain just can't believe that they're exactly the same. are there any owners of the cap4000 lp on this forum? every owner i've found or read about has the standard depth unit. initially i was completely sold on the idea of getting (3) standard depth units and laying them on their sides behind my single row of seating, but ever since selling the rythmik subs and seeing what 2 rows of seating actually looks like i'm very open to the idea of going with (3) low-profile units so i can squeeze in a 2nd row of seats. another huge benefit is that the amplifiers would be on the sides of the units and not jammed up against the rear wall. i can use a flat ICE power cord to make sure the subs are as close to the rear wall as possible which will be a great help in fitting the 2 rows of seating. the only negative is that the front row (MLP) won't have as much tactile energy as the rear row as that row of furniture will be sucking up a large chunk of the tactile/particle energy and is not the ideal listening position relative to all of the speaker placements in the room (the front row would be the MLP).

the real question is this. will i have more tactile/particle energy in the front row with (3) captivator 4000's pushing energy through (essentially) 2 rows of seating, versus what i had with (3) rythmik fv25's pushing energy through 1 row? i think it might be a wash? i sold the rythmik's primarily to chase that feeling. if i'm only going to really experience the benefit of the captivators with 1 row of seating i'll just get (3) standard depth units and lay them on their sides. this option actually intrigues me more because i can easily add more subs in the future (i could have as many as 9 stacked on top of each-other--3 in each row laying horizontally). with the low profile units i can only ever have 3 as i have no other placement options in the room right now. i thought i might be able to add some LP units behind the screen but the depth of the 4000LP is similar to that of the fv25's and they were also too deep. i'd have to move the faux-wall out quite a bit to pull that off and it's not something i'd like to do as the screen would move forward and be too close for the front row of seating. adding any LP units to the side walls would result in a small obstruction of the screen from the extreme left/right seats in the rear row.

sorry for all of the questions/doubts, just trying to write out my thoughts before i pull the trigger and make a decision. the room is basically unusable without subwoofers right now and i'd like to rectify that. i'm open to any ideas i haven't thought of too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pradeep2 View Post
"the real question is this. will i have more tactile/particle energy in the front row with (3) captivator 4000's pushing energy through (essentially) 2 rows of seating, versus what i had with (3) rythmik fv25's pushing energy through 1 row? i think it might be a wash? i sold the rythmik's primarily to chase that feeling. if i'm only going to really experience the benefit of the captivators with 1 row of seating i'll just get (3) standard depth units and lay them on their sides."

The rule of thumb to experience very near field effects is to have the seating within the diameter of the drivers, in this case 18". I dont see how you would get the same effect if the subs are placed 6 or 7 feet behind you.

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Hi,

I think it is important to distinguish between very near-field effects, and increased TR, in general. There is no question that proximity enhances TR. But, it certainly isn't the only factor. With enough SPL and particle velocity, we can feel significant chest punch at outdoor concerts 100' or 150' from the stage. We can feel the low-bass rumble of a heavy truck passing by our houses, much less something like a tank or a train passing by. Proximity simply enhances those effects.

I believe that the Cap 4000's will have enormously more low-bass TR than the FV25HP's, irrespective of the specific placement in the room. I would expect people sitting in the second row to get a more serious back massage than people sitting in the first row. But, I don't think that the chairs in the second row will absorb all of the particle velocity, leaving no TR for the first row.

From everything I have experienced in my room, and seen and read about from other rooms (or outdoors, for that matter), that just isn't the way that low-bass TR works. If the Cap 4000's are turned-up loud, and if there is sufficient low-bass content to produce the low-bass TR that serith is looking for, I believe that they will crank-out much more of it than the FV25HP's ever did, whether there is a row of seating in the way or not.

Regards,
Mike

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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post #11244 of 12698 Old 12-26-2018, 02:23 PM
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@ serith

Please don't rule out putting 2 4000ULF LPs behind the screen! Jeff introduced the LP mainly for that reason! You can have the drivers and the port aiming at the first row of seating!

Besides, if you put 2 at the front, and 1 at the back, you will be surrounded by bass and you can still have 2 rows of seating!
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Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 12-26-2018 at 03:16 PM.
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post #11245 of 12698 Old 12-26-2018, 05:24 PM
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Captivator 4000ULF vs S2

Why does the Captivator S2 graph higher values than the 4000ULF in tests other than CEA Max Burst? Does this mean the S2 will give me more during lower listening volumes? I don't really know what I'm talking about or what the graphs are fully telling me but trying to figure out what sub gives me the air movement and chest thump feeling at medium listening levels in a 3000 cubic foot theater.
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post #11246 of 12698 Old 12-26-2018, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MinnesotaGreg View Post
Why does the Captivator S2 graph higher values than the 4000ULF in tests other than CEA Max Burst? Does this mean the S2 will give me more during lower listening volumes? I don't really know what I'm talking about or what the graphs are fully telling me but trying to figure out what sub gives me the air movement and chest thump feeling at medium listening levels in a 3000 cubic foot theater.
The basic response graph on data-bass doesn't really tell you much, other than the DUT's extension. Then, you should look at the graphs showing the LF Adjust at Maximum.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #11247 of 12698 Old 12-26-2018, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
@ serith

Please don't rule out putting 2 4000ULF LPs behind the screen! Jeff introduced the LP mainly for that reason! You can have the drivers and the port aiming at the first row of seating!

Besides, if you put 2 at the front, and 1 at the back, you will be surrounded by bass and you can still have 2 rows of seating!
going to go downstairs and remove the screen and try to figure out how much work will be required to fit 2 low profile captivators behind the screen between the psa tower trio. i know the faux-wall will need to come out a bit just not sure how much, ugh.

1 step back for many forward...
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post #11248 of 12698 Old 12-26-2018, 08:52 PM
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Official JTR Speakers Subwoofer Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by serith View Post
going to go downstairs and remove the screen and try to figure out how much work will be required to fit 2 low profile captivators behind the screen between the psa tower trio. i know the faux-wall will need to come out a bit just not sure how much, ugh.



1 step back for many forward...


I think that way you get two in front and two LP in back. Both rows are covered and awesome coverage.


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Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser
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Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD

Last edited by imureh; 12-26-2018 at 08:58 PM.
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post #11249 of 12698 Old 12-26-2018, 08:57 PM
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what makes these subs better than other subs ?
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post #11250 of 12698 Old 12-26-2018, 09:06 PM
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what makes these subs better than other subs ?
Please define "these subs".

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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