Official JTR Speakers Subwoofer Thread - Page 377 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #11281 of 12723 Old 12-28-2018, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nodoubt View Post
the jtr line in general.
better drivers, amps, boxes ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nodoubt View Post
any brand.
i just see these always highly regarded, and wondered what made them so.
Hi,

I think it starts with the drivers, particularly high-excursion ones. It continues with large cabinets, sufficient amplifier power, and low-port tunes. The designer deliberately concentrates on a no-holds barred approach to output, and particularly low-frequency output. He doesn't neglect quality construction or distortion in the process, but as I see it, he is simply more committed to extreme performance than other subwoofer designers.

The JTR subwoofers, and especially the ported subwoofers, test very high in max output, and in max sustained output. The Cap 4000ULF, for instance, is the most powerful commercial subwoofer currently made, based on CEA-2010 testing. And, subwoofers such as the Orbit Shifter, the Cap 2400ULF, and the sealed S2 are similarly impressive.

Other subwoofer companies might be able to develop somewhat similar performance monsters if they really buckled down to it. The PSA S7201 is an example of a no-holds barred approach to a sealed design. And, Rythmik's FV25HP is a very impressive subwoofer in its own right.

But, most subwoofer companies are not willing to go quite as far as Jeff is in the pursuit of low-frequency SPL. I have talked to Ed Mullen of SVS about that, for instance, and they just aren't willing to go bigger than the existing PB16 right now. That includes both driver size and cabinet volume. Similarly, Brian Ding of Rythmik is unwilling to do a dual 18" design, at this point, partly due to cabinet size, and partly due to total weight. They could reduce weight by using Baltic Birch, instead of MDF for the cabinets, but so far that doesn't seem to be on the horizon.

I honestly don't think that Jeff would hesitate to build the Cap 6000ULF subwoofer that Chucky was describing, if someone really wanted one. And, who knows? He may build one anyway at some point, just because he can. That attitude, combined with the talent and determination to see it through, is what makes JTR subs such performance monsters.

Regards,
Mike

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
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Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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post #11282 of 12723 Old 12-28-2018, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nodoubt View Post
any brand.
i just see these always highly regarded, and wondered what made them so.
Output per dollar and exceptional deep bass capability. The money you spend is going strictly towards performance and not tuning modes or fancy remote app controls.
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post #11283 of 12723 Old 12-28-2018, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Pradeep2 View Post
The hypothetical 6000ULF using an sp1-6000 amp would need 240V power for max output, it will run on 120V but only at half power (3kW).

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Hmmmm. I might be out on that front.
That's not accurate. The built in caps and burst current draw on a 120v outlet will allow the sp1-6000 to perform with sustained full power for most transients in movies. I won't disagree that 240v will get you better overall performance if it's an easy fix, but 120V will suffice just fine for anything but running high power sine sweeps...

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post #11284 of 12723 Old 12-28-2018, 07:58 AM
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That's not accurate. The built in caps and burst current draw on a 120v outlet will allow the sp1-6000 to perform with sustained full power for most transients in movies. I won't disagree that 240v will get you better overall performance if it's an easy fix, but 120V will suffice just fine for anything but running high power sine sweeps...
I wish you hadn't said that.
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post #11285 of 12723 Old 12-28-2018, 08:00 AM
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I wish you hadn't said that.
You say that, but we both know it isn't true...

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post #11286 of 12723 Old 12-28-2018, 08:06 AM
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You say that, but we both know it isn't true...
I know. Sigh.

I can't fit two 40 inch wide subs though. I could only fit one.
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post #11287 of 12723 Old 12-28-2018, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
That's not accurate. The built in caps and burst current draw on a 120v outlet will allow the sp1-6000 to perform with sustained full power for most transients in movies. I won't disagree that 240v will get you better overall performance if it's an easy fix, but 120V will suffice just fine for anything but running high power sine sweeps...
The sp1-6000 is optimised for 208-240V input. You can't get the specified performance on 120V (6kW sustained for 4 seconds), per spec its limited to 3kW when running on 120V.

The 4kW amp outperforms the 6kW, when both are running on 120V. That's why it only makes sense to use the 6kW amp and pay the $250 premium if you have 240V available.

http://www.speakerpower.net/specifications1.html


Edit to add: difference is now $340 retail after SP price increases.

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post #11288 of 12723 Old 12-28-2018, 09:00 AM
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The gunfighters shootout in Open Range is the one that shows what a compression driver can do that others can’t.
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post #11289 of 12723 Old 12-28-2018, 01:27 PM
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The Tale of Two Towers! Rythmik FV25 vs JTR 2400ULF

My impressions are posted here if you are interested.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post57334986

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post #11290 of 12723 Old 12-28-2018, 05:40 PM
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Mine posted in the same thread...

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post57340310

Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser
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post #11291 of 12723 Old 12-28-2018, 10:44 PM
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Alright... Everything is in place... It took me a while because the Neosis 212HT weighs 125lbs each. I did listen to them for a couple of hours on Thursday night.

JTR full frontal!



I haven't had a chance to re-run Audyssey yet. For now, I am listening full range with Audyssey @ L/R bypass and mostly in 2 channel stereo. My usual MV is -8dB for movies, -13dB (critical listening) and -18dB and lower (casual listening) for music.
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Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 12-30-2018 at 09:36 PM.
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post #11292 of 12723 Old 12-28-2018, 11:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Alright... Everything is in place... It took me a while because the Neosis 212HT weighs 125lbs each. I did listen to them for a couple of hours last night.

JTR full frontal!

For now, I am listening full range without Audyssey and mostly in 2 channel stereo.
the audio:video is so extremely disproportional in this picture lol! <3

so what are your thoughts on how they sound? don't leave us hanging!
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post #11293 of 12723 Old 12-29-2018, 01:00 AM
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the audio:video is so extremely disproportional in this picture lol! <3
I know, right?

Members said that when I just upgraded to the 4000ULF...

The fact that 4k projectors are in their infancy doesn't help either.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #11294 of 12723 Old 12-29-2018, 02:54 AM
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The above is my impression so far: TL;DR... @Jeff Permanian... I won't be sending these babies back!

Some background info:

My front stage comprised of the Polk Audio LSiM 703s and LSiM 706c. I also have the Jamo C103s which I use occasionally to spice it up. While these are nowhere near high end, they are all very capable flagship bookshelf/center speakers and present excellent bang for the buck. I sold the Polk speakers right after I placed an ordered for some JTRs. Therefore, I was using the Jamo C103s for L/R and a KEF Q100 as a make-shift center.

I am also very frugal and tend to put dollar sign on value. For subwoofers, it's easy with CEA2010 Max Burst numbers, not so for speakers. One Cap 4000ULF equals to 2 2400ULFs. I have read many people say certain speakers sound as good as the ones costing twice as much and so on but no one can explain how and why.

When I ordered the Neosis 212HTs, I was worried that I won't be able to appreciate them which are much more expensive and efficient than what I had before. Take Klipsch for example, people either love them or hate them, because of the horn. Jeff assured me that JTR speakers, just like the subs, have 30 day trial period. Deep down inside, I was still concerned because I had good speakers that I was happy with and never thought of upgrading from to begin with.

-----------------------------------

The music I have listened to so far:

Alex Clare - I Won't Let You Down
Boz Scaggs - Thanks To You
Evie Sands - While I Look at You
Andrea Bocelli and Katharine McPhee - The Prayer
Brand New Opry Vol.1 - Lowlands
Eagles - Hotel California from Hell Freezes over DVD
Roy Orbison - Only the Lonely from Black and White Night
Ed Sheeran - Shape of You
Ellie Goulding - Love Me Like You Do
Leo Rojas - Der Einsame Hirte
John Barry - Somewhere in Time (1998 Re-redording)

On Thursday, I couldn't fit everything on the pallet into my wagon so I left one of the custom speaker stands at work. Therefore, I unplugged the left channel when I started listening in stereo at MV of -18dB. First I listened to the Jamo 103, then in the middle of a song, switched over to the Neosis 212HT. Some of you might have the experience that someone had messed with the volume knob so when you started playing something it was so loud and you had to turn it down immediately. The 212HT's 101dB sensitivity made the music loud, but still crystal clear. I couldn't believe how clean it sounded, so I switched right back to Jamo 103. The Jamo 103 was much quieter, yet it was veiled and lacked definition. If the 212HT sounded this good in mono, I can't imagine listening in stereo! Therefore, I hooked up the right speaker and put it on a folding chair. As for the Jamo 103, I have not listened to it since I had all the 212HTs connected.

I am much more of a basshead than an audiophile. Immediately I noticed how potent the bass was from the 212HTs. Though on paper the 212HTs only dig down to 60Hz, they seem to hit deeper, harder and faster than the high 30Hz extension speakers they replaced. I even felt slight tremble from my recliner and some chest slam from the drums in Eagles - Hotel California from Hell Freezes over DVD and the rhythm in Ed Sheeran - Shape of You. The 212HTs shined so bright with rich male voices. When Andrea Bocelli started singing in the Prayer MV, I got goosebumps and uttered out "Holy S-H-I-T". I have watched this MV dozens of times because of how Katherine McPhee looked in it. Now I have another reason to watch it. Maybe I will put Darth Vader's "I am your father" voice on repeat...

Roy Orbison - Only the Lonely in Black and White Night was just ear candy on the Neosis 212HTs. The instruments were also very clear and the sound stage was just tremendous! After getting the Cap 4000ULF, I have not listened to Brand New Opry Vol.1 - Lowlands because the MV does not have strong bass. Boy, the male vocals were just exquisite and the strings precise with great separation when each instrument entered the screen.

With the speakers (~87dB sensitivity) I had, I usually listen to music at MV of -18dB or so. I couldn't listen louder for extended period of time because it gets annoying after a few songs. With the 212HTs, I was listening at -20dB and did not feel loud at all. Then I went to the back yard for a breather and found that I was playing much louder than before. I almost freaked out because I didn't want to disturb the neighbors too much! When I got back inside, I noticed that the music did not appear that loud! Because the 212HTs could play loud with such low distortion, it still sounded pleasant.

Last weekend, I watched a movie (using the KEF Q100 as center) and found the dialogues just weren't as pronounced as before with a real center and therefore, the movie experience suffered. I missed the rich fuller sound from my last center speaker! Though I have not watched a movie yet with the Neosis 212HTs, I am positive that they will take movie viewing to the next level.

Back to more music...

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 12-31-2018 at 10:25 AM.
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post #11295 of 12723 Old 12-29-2018, 06:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Alright... Everything is in place... It took me a while because the Neosis 212HT weighs 125lbs each. I did listen to them for a couple of hours last night.

JTR full frontal!



For now, I am listening full range with Audyssey L/R bypass and mostly in 2 channel stereo.
You need to get a second Cap4000 to put on the other side of your centre speaker. You know, for... symmetry.
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post #11296 of 12723 Old 12-29-2018, 07:18 AM
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Yeah, Chucky can get another 4000 and stand both of them up.
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post #11297 of 12723 Old 12-29-2018, 07:48 AM
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Yeah, Chucky can get another 4000 and stand both of them up.
Looking at the pic, he may even be able to fit it horizontally like the other one? @chucky7 , please measure that gap and let us know! I'd prefer them laid horizontally like the current one as having them vertical will make them even more in your peripheral vision while watching a movie. If that was my room, I would think about putting that Cap4000 behind the couch/sofa. It won't be in the peripheral vision anymore, and as a bonus you'll a get nice back massage and even more tactile feeling.
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post #11298 of 12723 Old 12-29-2018, 08:13 AM
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definitely need another 4000 on the left side and 110" PJ minimum....set 4lyfe after those 2 upgrades!!
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post #11299 of 12723 Old 12-29-2018, 08:22 AM
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definitely need another 4000 on the left side and 110" PJ minimum....set 4lyfe after those 2 upgrades!!
An acoustically-transparent screen would be good. He'd be able to put the three speakers behind the screen and place the centre vertically like the other two. This will put all three compression drivers in line with each other, which will likely make the left-to-right sound panning during movies (such as a car travelling across the screen) sound more natural due to the directionally-sensitive high frequencies coming from the same horizontal plane.
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Nice write up Charlie! We are all super jelly!

Looks like you need to put in a little bit of OT to pick up those few pieces everyone says you are missing!

Happy listening dude and let us know what you think when/or if you get to movies. Compression drivers seem to play dialogue super clean which is definitely intriguing to me.

Todd
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post #11301 of 12723 Old 12-29-2018, 11:47 AM
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I'm betting that adding the highly efficient 212s are going to let your 4000 off the leash a bit too. Everything should be more efficient and cleaner. Each time I add more JTRs to my set up (subs, front stage, surrounds and Atmos), my MLV number decreases. I am able to still crank it up just as high (MLV) as before without any distortion, but don't feel the need unless I am trying to go nuts for a few and try to take down the house. Let us know when you've run the paces if it sounds like your sub also seems to have improved? Super excited for you @chucky7 !
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post #11302 of 12723 Old 12-29-2018, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Sweet Jimmy View Post
Yeah, Chucky can get another 4000 and stand both of them up.
Leave them lying down then he has room for another pair stacked on top.

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post #11303 of 12723 Old 12-29-2018, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
With the speakers (~87dB sensitivity) I had, I usually listen to music at MV of -18dB or so. I couldn't listen louder for extended period of time because it gets annoying after a few songs. With the 212HTs, I was listening at -20dB and did not feel loud at all. Then I went to the back yard for a breather and found that I was playing much louder. I almost freaked out because I didn't want to disturb the neighbors too much! When I got back inside, I noticed that the music did not appear that loud! Because the 212HTs could play loud with such low distortion, it still sounded pleasant.
seriously be careful. efficient horn speakers have the ability to damage your hearing & give you everlasting tinnitus. you don't even realize how loud it is until like you said you leave the room and come back, or when you wake up the next morning and your ears are ringing.


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horns were designed for movie theaters/churches...10 watts can power horns to fill stadiums lol.
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post #11305 of 12723 Old 12-29-2018, 12:38 PM
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sick setup
dang center is as wide as the tv !!
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post #11306 of 12723 Old 12-29-2018, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
I know, right?

Members said that when I just upgraded to the 4000ULF...

The fact that 4k projectors are in their infancy doesn't help either.
Looks like you can fit at least 7 more 4000ULF's on the front stage: stack 'em 4 high on either side of the the TV. But seriously, why not grab a decent 1080p projector for $6-$700 and a screen. For a grand, maybe a little more, you'll have a fantastic image on a big screen. Go for the 4k when its reasonably cost effective and more content is out.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077TG22H3...I7QAAAAAW-Omdg
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post #11307 of 12723 Old 12-29-2018, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nodoubt View Post
sick setup
dang center is as wide as the tv !!
Yup... First it was the subwoofer. Now the center too...

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #11308 of 12723 Old 12-29-2018, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferrari_1996 View Post
You need to get a second Cap4000 to put on the other side of your centre speaker. You know, for... symmetry.
I tried that spot when I just got the Cap 1400. When I was evaluating the Monolith 15", I had it and the Cap 1400 flanking the TV and ran FR. That spot is not good and does more harm than good.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 12-29-2018 at 06:58 PM.
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post #11309 of 12723 Old 12-29-2018, 06:56 PM
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^^ was that with your Pioneer or Denon AVR?
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post #11310 of 12723 Old 12-29-2018, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
^^ was that with your Pioneer or Denon AVR?
Pioneer.

I haven't tried that spot with the Denon yet so it's possible the Audyssey might make it work.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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