Official JTR Speakers Subwoofer Thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #91 of 13427 Old 12-28-2016, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post
Find another reviewer, please.
Excellent suggestion.

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post #92 of 13427 Old 12-28-2016, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cannga View Post
Chucky, curious and question please: so how is it different from 2017 Cap 1400??

2017 Cap 1400: all the way to the right is max (for outdoor flat measurement), all the way to the left is minimum/cut (for small room, etc.).
2016 Cap 1400: ??
LF Adjust:
2017 Cap 1400: Cut only. Max is flat outdoors. Min is cut so that FR can be flat in small rooms
2015~16 Cap 1400: Max is + 6 dB and Min is -6 dB.
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Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

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post #93 of 13427 Old 12-28-2016, 10:43 PM
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I currently have 2 turbo 15 seaton, should I pull the trigger to try out a 18ht ? will it work as a third near field?

thanks for anyone that can chime in
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post #94 of 13427 Old 12-28-2016, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by tomtn View Post
I currently have 2 turbo 15 seaton, should I pull the trigger to try out a 18ht ? will it work as a third near field?

thanks for anyone that can chime in
If your room is less than 4000 cu ft, 2 turbo 15 Season should be plenty.

The more the merrier but I have read that integrating the third sub is not that easy and AVRs come with 2 sub pre-outs at most. However, if you do it, you should put the 118HT the farthest from MLP, and put a Seaton Turbo 15 near field.

Anyone here would be very interested in a shoot out between Seaton Turbo 15 and JTR Cap 118 HT.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #95 of 13427 Old 12-28-2016, 11:04 PM
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😀 yea having 2 seaton is awesome , but the price of 118ht right now is awesome too!
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post #96 of 13427 Old 12-28-2016, 11:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cannga View Post
SVS PB13 Ultra is a great subwoofer - likely a "best seller" with its outstanding combination of performance and cost, $2000. So how does JTR Captivator 118HT compare to PB13 strictly by CEA2010 performance metrics? The answer: Very close at 20 hz and below, then above 20 hz, 118HT is better by 2 dB. The key though is the cost difference, $1100 (plus shipping) for 118HT versus $2000 (including shipping) for PB13 Ultra.

Note: there are other considerations such as nice glossy finish of PB13, possible subjective sound difference that may favor one or the other in any given room or for any personal taste. This is strictly a performance/cost evaluation, which heavily favors the JTR 118HT. Therefore countdown warning: you have 4 days to pull the trigger .

So just spend the additional $300-$400 for a custom finish. Now you're talking about a $1,400-$1,500 sub with superior performance in the custom hardwood finish of your choosing instead of a $2,000 sub in basic gloss black.


Qtr Teak




Maple




Walnut




Rosenut




Qtr Rcn Zebra and Cherry




Or, if you absolutely have to have it in...

Gloss Black

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post #97 of 13427 Old 12-29-2016, 08:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
If your room is less than 4000 cu ft, 2 turbo 15 Season should be plenty.

The more the merrier but I have read that integrating the third sub is not that easy and AVRs come with 2 sub pre-outs at most. However, if you do it, you should put the 118HT the farthest from MLP, and put a Seaton Turbo 15 near field.

Anyone here would be very interested in a shoot out between Seaton Turbo 15 and JTR Cap 118 HT.
Chucky regarding sub pre-out, you could use RCA y splitter if there is a need for more. Input impedance of subwoofer amp is high enough that this shouldn't cause a problem.
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post #98 of 13427 Old 12-29-2016, 08:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Peterc613 View Post
Qtr Rcn Zebra and Cherry

I like that Zebra finish; modern color, nice pattern, unique. What is "Qtr Rcn" please?

Last edited by cannga; 12-29-2016 at 08:46 AM.
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post #99 of 13427 Old 12-29-2016, 08:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Return of the King : see red ink note. I don't know the history since that thread is so long (anyone pls expand as needed) but apparently the 2400 was made in the past and discontinued? Not it's being brought back to fill the gap between 1400 and the mother of all subwoofers :-), the 4000. Size is also in between. I would expect some spectacular CEA2010 numbers.

BTW, countdown warning as a public service announcement ;-): you have 3 days to pull trigger on 118HT ($1100) and, if you are "dedicated" enough 218HT ($1900). You will NOT see better performance at this price anywhere, now or in future, simply because it's not possible (I've been lurking and comparing choices for a while.). This is the reason why so many people/veterans of this forum are recommending it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by cannga View Post
Powerful Bang For The Buck
118HT: ported, 18", 19mm xmax, 700 watts RMS (ICE Power 700ASC module)

Sweet Spot - Great Size & Cost, STAGGERING :-) Capability & CEA-2010's
Captivator 1400: ported, 18", 33mm xmax, 1400 w RMS (Dual ICE Power 700ASC modules)
Captivator S1: sealed, 18", 33mm xmax, 2400 w RMS class D

Take No Prisoner
218HT: ported, dual 18", 19mm xmax, 1400 w RMS (Dual 700ASC)
Coming Soon Captivator 2400 ported, 18", ?33mm xmax, 2400 w RMS, 14 hz tuned, 34" x 27" x 22.5"

OMG
Captivator S2: sealed, dual 18", 33mm xmax, 4000 w RMS, class D
Orbit Shifter LFU: folded horn, 18", 30mm xmax, 4000 w RMS, 7200 w burst
Captivator 4000 ULF: ported, dual 18", 33mm xmax, 4000 w RMS

Last edited by cannga; 12-29-2016 at 12:01 PM.
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post #100 of 13427 Old 12-29-2016, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cannga View Post
I like that Zebra finish; modern color, nice pattern, unique. What is "Qtr Rcn" please?
qtr = quarter cut
rcn = reconstituted/engineered

I think

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post #101 of 13427 Old 12-29-2016, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cannga View Post
I like that Zebra finish; modern color, nice pattern, unique. What is "Qtr Rcn" please?





This is what a solid stock, rift sawn, four quarter (2"), Zebra Wood looks like. Obviously this is the most expensive way to buy Zebra Wood.




This is what a edge joint planks of solid stock, four quarter (2"), Zebra Wood looks like. It's less expensive to buy planks and glue them together than one solid piece.




Here is premium grade, rift sawn, 3/16" thick Zebra Wood veneer on kitchen cabinets. The edge jointed strips of grain look the same as planks. However, here the veneer had been carefully hand selected in 4' x 10' sheets to match, then laid up on plywood so that the pattern appears to continue around the kitchen.




This is reconstituted, rift sawn, 1/16" paper backed, Zebra Wood veneer. It's made from the leftovers created by making other rift sawn Zebra Wood veneer products. It's less expensive and the grain is the similar but more compact and uniform.




This is premium grade, quarter sawn, 3/16" Zebra Wood veneer. The grain is pronounced but very compact and evenly spaced. It's more expensive, but because of the uniformity, many wood workers prefer it for contemporary minimalist design. This is the grade the Jeff used on the Captivator 118 posted above.




This is reconstituted, quarter sawn, 1/16" paper backed Zebra Wood veneer. It's made from the leftovers created by making other quarter sawn Zebra Wood veneer products. It's also less expensive with the grain less pronounced and smoothly uniform. If you are using a stain instead of a clear varnish, this veneer gives you the most consistent coloration.

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Last edited by Peterc613; 12-29-2016 at 02:48 PM.
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post #102 of 13427 Old 12-29-2016, 11:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrewB View Post
Ok, enough sitting on the fence...I will be joining the JTR family with a 118HT in Feb . Hope to add a second one later on in the year.
Congrats. Two 118HT's at discount $1100 each is just a little more than my Cap 1400. Did shake my confidence a little .
Please give us impression when the time comes.

Last edited by cannga; 12-30-2016 at 10:49 AM.
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post #103 of 13427 Old 12-29-2016, 04:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by cannga View Post
Congrats. Two 118HT's at discount $1100 each is just a little more than my Cap 1400. Did shake my confidence a little .
Please give us impression when the time comes.
Cannga, is your 1400 the new 2017 version?
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post #104 of 13427 Old 12-30-2016, 06:52 AM
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Cannga, is your 1400 the new 2017 version?
Yes it is
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post #105 of 13427 Old 12-30-2016, 07:56 AM
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Cant imagine what that sub would do to my living room lol.
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post #106 of 13427 Old 12-30-2016, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indebtbassfreak View Post
That been said the 118HT's performance in a sub selling right now for $1099 is just such a good value, jeff is giving some who may not have a large budget the opportunity to really experience something special in their home theater.
Size matters. Attached is a computer model showing a subwoofer the size of the Captivator 118HT and a subwoofer that is 33% smaller with the same tuning. That size difference equals 3db at tuning.
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post #107 of 13427 Old 12-30-2016, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post
Size matters. Attached is a computer model showing a subwoofer the size of the Captivator 118HT and a subwoofer that is 33% smaller with the same tuning. That size difference equals 3db at tuning.
Big difference between 15Hz/22Hz. What i find very impressive is both the 118HT and especially Cap1400 Which has rediculas low end, performs so well above 40Hz. If my livingroom would have accommodated it, i would have gone the 1400 instead of S-1 since you dont loose upper base on both those ported subs. Not worried though LOL, S-1 is no joke.
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post #108 of 13427 Old 12-30-2016, 10:24 AM
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Speaking of S-1,, did the driver show up yet Jeff??
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post #109 of 13427 Old 12-30-2016, 10:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterc613 View Post
This is what a edge joint planks of solid stock, four quarter (2"), Zebra Wood looks like. It's less expensive to buy planks and glue them together than one solid piece.





This is premium grade, quarter sawn, 3/16" Zebra Wood veneer. The grain is pronounced but very compact and evenly spaced. It's more expensive, but because of the uniformity, many wood workers prefer it for contemporary minimalist design. This is the grade the Jeff used on the Captivator 118 posted above.
.......picture snipped...

Very informative/interesting post and that table is strikingly beautiful. You are into woodworking?

The color of the wood, yellowish on the table and "chocolaty" on the subwoofer, could be changed simply by using different stain colors? ie Customers could request Jeff to use different colors?

Last edited by cannga; 12-30-2016 at 10:53 AM.
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post #110 of 13427 Old 12-30-2016, 10:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post
Size matters. Attached is a computer model showing a subwoofer the size of the Captivator 118HT and a subwoofer that is 33% smaller with the same tuning. That size difference equals 3db at tuning.

Secret sauce to "staggering" CEA2010 numbers = big driver + big motor + big amp + big box.
Ok maybe some experience/knowledge/talent also help.

BTW the countdown continues for sale of 118HT @ $1100 and 218HT @ $1900. Both with off-the-chart price/performance ratio that no other company could match: you have 48 hours to pull the trigger and become happier in life, audio wise. :-)
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Last edited by cannga; 12-30-2016 at 01:10 PM.
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post #111 of 13427 Old 12-30-2016, 11:52 AM
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by cannga View Post
Secret sauce to "staggering" CEA2010 numbers = big driver + big motor + big amp + big box.
Ok maybe some experience/knowledge/talent also help.

BTW the countdown continues for sale of 118HT @ $1100 and 218HT @ $1900. Both with off-the-chart price/performance ratio that no other company could match: you have 48 hours to pull the trigger and becomes happier in life, audio wise. :-)

I played some clips from MID Bass Vol 1 on my dual 15 turbo seaton, fantastic sound. Would the mid bass on the 118ht be more impactful like getting a clean punch. Dual turbo 15 feels clean and mid bass punch is great, just the "what if" with 18 inch driver vs 15 1 more day to decide yikes!
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post #112 of 13427 Old 12-30-2016, 12:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomtn View Post
I played some clips from MID Bass Vol 1 on my dual 15 turbo seaton, fantastic sound. Would the mid bass on the 118ht be more impactful like getting a clean punch. Dual turbo 15 feels clean and mid bass punch is great, just the "what if" with 18 inch driver vs 15 1 more day to decide yikes!

I know it is not standard practice to mix size but I know of pro's who do it, and I would mix the Seaton with 118HT. This assures better room distribution (from numbers), and that you won't lose the ultra low bass of 118ht or the punch of Seaton. IMHO.

When I added the sealed JL E112 (sounds punchier) to my current dual PR subwoofs (sounds deeper with that LF "bloom," or boom :-)), the result is better to my ears. eg Exhaust sound at beginning of Mad Max Fury Road purrs so much nicer and punchier, very important to me, a fan of sports cars' exhaust sounds .

The reality is as much as we would like to guess, IMHO the only way to see what any speaker/subwoofer sounds like is to have it in your room. ie Once in my life I/we would like to experience a ported 18 incher (this was the reason I picked JTR over Seaton and Funk btw), and you have no choice but to pull the trigger :-). At this price, can't lose.
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post #113 of 13427 Old 12-30-2016, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post
Size matters. Attached is a computer model showing a subwoofer the size of the Captivator 118HT and a subwoofer that is 33% smaller with the same tuning. That size difference equals 3db at tuning.
And the output difference around tuning would be even greater if a less capable driver is used in the 33% smaller subwoofer.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 12-30-2016 at 02:16 PM.
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post #114 of 13427 Old 12-30-2016, 12:44 PM
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AHH, time is running out. Do I order the 118HT's at the preorder price or just wait a bit and get a pair of 1400's. I don't want to buy the 118's if all I'm going to do is think - Hmmm, maybe should have bought the 1400's... That could bug me and then I have to sell yet another pair of subs to buy yet another pair of subs (I've done this a few times!).

At the preorder price, however, a pair of the 118's are $1,600 cheaper than the 1400's!

Decisions, decisions...
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post #115 of 13427 Old 12-30-2016, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomtn View Post
I played some clips from MID Bass Vol 1 on my dual 15 turbo seaton, fantastic sound. Would the mid bass on the 118ht be more impactful like getting a clean punch. Dual turbo 15 feels clean and mid bass punch is great, just the "what if" with 18 inch driver vs 15 1 more day to decide yikes!
I looked at the output numbers between Cap 118HT and those of top $1000 15" subs. Overall, Cap 118 HT averages > 3dB than the top 15" subs. The output difference @ 50 ~ 80 Hz can be more than 5 dB. Hope this helps ... or maybe not ...
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Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 12-30-2016 at 12:57 PM.
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post #116 of 13427 Old 12-30-2016, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
I looked at the output numbers between Cap 118HT and those of top $1000 15" subs. Overall, Cap 118 HT averages > 3dB than the top 15" subs. The output difference @ 50 ~ 80 Hz can be more than 5 dB. Hope this helps ... or maybe not ...
welp the force is pulling me in.
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post #117 of 13427 Old 12-30-2016, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by bambam View Post
At the preorder price, however, a pair of the 118's are $1,600 cheaper than the 1400's!

Decisions, decisions...

So buy three 118s and still "save" money.
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post #118 of 13427 Old 12-30-2016, 04:06 PM
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So buy three 118s and still "save" money.
If I shipped them freight and then it would cost the same to ship three and two.
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post #119 of 13427 Old 12-30-2016, 04:39 PM
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From another thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post
I heard the Captivator 1400, dual 4000ULF's, and the 118 at the JTR Speakers 10th anniversary a few weeks ago. I had 3 fun days of bass. The Captivator 1400 and 4000ULF's were played in the JTR warehouse. Jeff was testing out the newly built 1400 with a variety of music while we were setting up. The deep bass available from a sub this size is amazing. The pair of 4000ULFs have even deeper bass with seemingly limitless amounts of output. The entire warehouse was pulsating with the sound! A pair of these should be all anyone, except @pennynike1 , would ever need. The big surprise was the 118's. A pair of these were setup in the demo room and we were easily able to give the room all it could handle. These have to be the best deal on the market at their introductory price (only through Dec. 31st!). I was able to listen to a lot of music and Blu-ray concerts selections from my own library on the 118's. I played a variety of selections that have upright bass, bass guitar, drums, or other percussion. When an upright bass images perfectly, then the subs and speakers are properly integrated. When the upright bass notes have just the right bloom and decay, then you know the driver is of extremely high quality. A light weight driver with high motor strength results in an extremely well damped system. This what you have in the 118. You get the uncolored original sound of the music.
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post #120 of 13427 Old 12-30-2016, 10:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bambam View Post
AHH, time is running out. Do I order the 118HT's at the preorder price or just wait a bit and get a pair of 1400's. I don't want to buy the 118's if all I'm going to do is think - Hmmm, maybe should have bought the 1400's... That could bug me and then I have to sell yet another pair of subs to buy yet another pair of subs (I've done this a few times!).

At the preorder price, however, a pair of the 118's are $1,600 cheaper than the 1400's!

Decisions, decisions...


I already found out - nearly impossible to decide. JTR's pricing structure is so very carefully planned out, like a witch's (not Jeff! :-)) clever maze with many great paths, but no single best path .

I picked Cap 1400 because in my current audio exploration into subwoofs I need to see what a best in class ported 18" sounds like, but now that I hear people's report on 118HT, yeah my confidence is shaken. :-)

There is comfort in knowing that what ever combination you work out dual 118HT vs single 1400, dual 1400 vs 218HT, etc., the one that costs more would have the better performance. It does seem to work out that way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cannga View Post

Powerful Bang For The Buck
118HT: ported, 18", 19mm xmax, 700 watts RMS (ICE Power 700ASC module)

Sweet Spot - Great Size & Cost, STAGGERING Capability & CEA-2010's
Captivator 1400: ported, 18", 33mm xmax, 1400 w RMS (Dual ICE Power 700ASC modules)
Captivator S1: sealed, 18", 33mm xmax, 2400 w RMS class D

Take No Prisoner
218HT: ported, dual 18", 19mm xmax, 1400 w RMS (Dual 700ASC)
Captivator 2400: ported, 18", ?33mm xmax, 2400 w RMS, 14 hz tuned, 34" x 27" x 22.5" Coming Soon

OMG
Captivator S2: sealed, dual 18", 33mm xmax, 4000 w RMS, class D
Orbit Shifter LFU: folded horn, 18", 30mm xmax, 4000 w RMS, 7200 w burst
Captivator 4000 ULF: ported, dual 18", 33mm xmax, 4000 w RMS
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Last edited by cannga; 12-31-2016 at 07:57 AM.
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