Official JTR Speakers Subwoofer Thread - Page 403 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #12061 of 13495 Old 03-07-2019, 09:59 PM
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The isolation transformer should work. It sounds like a ground loop caused by a double ground from your cable box. When power is grounded at more than one location power will travel between both paths causing too much circuit noise leading the annoying speaker/subwoofer hum. Once that isolation transformer is in place there should be less ground paths thus reduced or eliminated hum, or so we hope. May the odds be in your favor.

-groovin
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post #12062 of 13495 Old 03-07-2019, 10:44 PM
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Official JTR Speakers Subwoofer Thread

The beasts are here! Still figuring how to get them moved to the 3rd floor

The pics don’t do justice. The actual size of these things is a little intimidating (in a good way)


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post #12063 of 13495 Old 03-07-2019, 11:45 PM
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Man what a tease... showing us just the tips... The picture of them next to the car provides a pretty good perspective of just how intimidating those pair of knockers are. Ohhh man... can't wait to see more.

-groovin
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post #12064 of 13495 Old 03-08-2019, 12:50 AM
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Originally Posted by gutcheck2001 View Post
And I can’t kill these hums. I can’t turn the gain up past two clicks. Now when I unplug the cable I still have a hum. Tomorrow a coax ground filter and a line level filter are coming from blue jeans. I really want to keep these. If this doesn’t work I may have an electrician take a stab at it.
If you unplugged the RG6U cable and there is still a hum from sub 1(I assume sub 2 doesn't hum anymore), then the line level filter should work. It's recommended by the most professionals, but also the most expensive.

If you use the cheater plug, does sub 1's hum go away completely?

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Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

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post #12065 of 13495 Old 03-08-2019, 12:53 AM
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Originally Posted by tanbyte View Post
The beasts are here! Still figuring how to get them moved to the 3rd floor

The pics don’t do justice. The actual size of these things is a little intimidating (in a good way)

Attachment 2535876
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So you went from the S2 to 2 4000ULFs ?

No wonder!
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Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

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post #12066 of 13495 Old 03-08-2019, 07:39 AM
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Hum

Hey All, While I'm waiting for my Ebony Madagascar 4000ULF I've been reading a lot of sites. Over on Facebook an electrician and maybe DJ commented on audio equipment hum, topic of interest on this page. He states hum will exist if the power circuits are on different phases in the electrical panel. If I understand him correctly, the breakers in odd slots are on the same phase (or all those in the even slots are on the same phase), so all your audio equipment power circuits should be in odd or even slots in the panel. For what its worth....and not sure if it's true.
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post #12067 of 13495 Old 03-08-2019, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by MinnesotaGreg View Post
Hey All, While I'm waiting for my Ebony Madagascar 4000ULF I've been reading a lot of sites. Over on Facebook an electrician and maybe DJ commented on audio equipment hum, topic of interest on this page. He states hum will exist if the power circuits are on different phases in the electrical panel. If I understand him correctly, the breakers in odd slots are on the same phase (or all those in the even slots are on the same phase), so all your audio equipment power circuits should be in odd or even slots in the panel. For what its worth....and not sure if it's true.

That was a response to my post lol. I will have an electrician look into that if I can't silence them.
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post #12068 of 13495 Old 03-08-2019, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
If you unplugged the RG6U cable and there is still a hum from sub 1(I assume sub 2 doesn't hum anymore), then the line level filter should work. It's recommended by the most professionals, but also the most expensive.

If you use the cheater plug, does sub 1's hum go away completely?

Hey Chucky.


So ever since the cable guy came the coax hum seems to be gone. I turned the gain up a few clicks (I would like to land at gain 50%) and there is still a soft him from sub 1. Sub 2 is really loud. A cheater plug fixes sub 1 and greatly reduces the hum from sub 2 but it is still there a little. Both subs are silent with the rca removed and powered on so I don't suspect it is the subs themselves.


Today my filter gets here so I will try that.
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post #12069 of 13495 Old 03-08-2019, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gutcheck2001 View Post
Hey Chucky.

So ever since the cable guy came the coax hum seems to be gone. I turned the gain up a few clicks (I would like to land at gain 50%) and there is still a soft him from sub 1. Sub 2 is really loud. A cheater plug fixes sub 1 and greatly reduces the hum from sub 2 but it is still there a little. Both subs are silent with the rca removed and powered on so I don't suspect it is the subs themselves.

Today my filter gets here so I will try that.
Yeah, I am a little lost here because you have before and after the cable guy came, compounded with Sub 1 and 2...

Hopefully the BJ Subwoofer Isolation Transformer is all you need for both subs.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #12070 of 13495 Old 03-08-2019, 09:38 AM
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I think the issue is that cable appointment. He claims the cable wasn’t grounded to the house, direct TV was (which I used to have years ago). So he supposedly fixed it and we both expected the hum to be gone. Now, it’s actually worse but doesn’t seem to have anything to do with the cable coax being connected or disconnected.

I may order a bunch of SVS or BJ RCA cables to connect my amps up and the subs as the cables now are mixed brands. Let’s see if the isolation stuff works, will for sure update. I am confident they will as the cheater plugs really help sub 2 and silence sub 1.
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post #12071 of 13495 Old 03-08-2019, 11:00 AM
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Some cables that I used in the past that reduced the effect of Hum where the Acoustic Research Master Series RCA cables. Unfortunately they aren't made anymore, but in the past when I had a hum, I used these cables instead and the Hum was virtually gone after. Only noticeable if you put your ear to the woofer.

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post #12072 of 13495 Old 03-08-2019, 01:20 PM
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Dead silent!!!! Blue jeans line level filter worked great!
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post #12073 of 13495 Old 03-08-2019, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by gutcheck2001 View Post
Dead silent!!!! Blue jeans line level filter worked great!
I knew the odds would be in your favor! Congrats! The moment you determined the issue stemmed from your cable box your solution solution became clear. Good job hunting down the source. Its not always easy and more often than not ground loop can be quite annoying to isolate.

-groovin
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post #12074 of 13495 Old 03-08-2019, 03:11 PM
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[QUOTE=tanbyte;57712006]The beasts are here! Still figuring how to get them moved to the 3rd floor

Please let us know how you moved them to the third floor. I want to get them too but am really worried about moving them around and then fit them in my space. Enjoy the beasts
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post #12075 of 13495 Old 03-09-2019, 01:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonicgroove View Post
The isolation transformer should work. It sounds like a ground loop caused by a double ground from your cable box. When power is grounded at more than one location power will travel between both paths causing too much circuit noise leading the annoying speaker/subwoofer hum. Once that isolation transformer is in place there should be less ground paths thus reduced or eliminated hum, or so we hope. May the odds be in your favor.

-groovin

What I don't understand is why is it that so often it's the cable box that is the culprit for ground loop problem?? I mean there are so many components, what is it about the cable box that is different?

Does it have something to do with the RG6 input cable? This seems the only thing "unique" electronically to the cable box.

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post #12076 of 13495 Old 03-09-2019, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by cannga View Post
What I don't understand is why is it that so often it's the cable box that is the culprit for ground loop problem?? I mean there are so many components, what is it about the cable box that is different?

Does it have something to do with the RG6 input cable? This seems the only thing "unique" electronically to the cable box.
Just a guess, but probably because it is often grounded in a totally different place. Mine, for instance, is grounded in the cable box. I'm not sure what caused the ground loop in my abortive diy subwoofer experiment, but I have figured out that I can avoid it by using only equipment that has lifted ground(2 wire power plug). So, just to make my audio life easier, I won't even touch something with a grounded plug, literally and figuratively. It was blind luck that every thing I bought had lifted grounds until the diy subwoofer debacle. When I replaced my starter subs with better ones, it was one of the things I looked at. I got the subs I really wanted anyway as they had lifted grounds.
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post #12077 of 13495 Old 03-09-2019, 05:55 PM
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Ok guys. Subs are installed and have a few silly questions:

1) hookups - I have the option to go XLR on the front sub, stuck with RCA on the rear. Any benefits to either? Y-split hookup the RCA?

2) my AVM 60 apparently doesn’t calibrate two subs as individuals just tells me to level match them and it tests them as a single sub, which kinda pisses me off. They are sounding ok but I can’t setbdual distances. Makes me want to by an AV7705. Any advice?

I pinged the AVM 60 thread they helped a lot.

3) rubber feet. I am getting quite a bit of rattle. One sub is going on it’s side the other standing both on hardwood. I got some temporary furniture pads but they aren’t cutting it. What about the SVS SoundPath feet? Or maybe some of those subwoofer pads from amazon?

Last edited by gutcheck2001; 03-09-2019 at 06:23 PM.
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post #12078 of 13495 Old 03-09-2019, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by cannga View Post
What I don't understand is why is it that so often it's the cable box that is the culprit for ground loop problem?? I mean there are so many components, what is it about the cable box that is different?

Does it have something to do with the RG6 input cable? This seems the only thing "unique" electronically to the cable box.
The dish or cable source is likely grounded then connects to your home power which is also grounded. Grounds are a safety feature normally required by the city just like how your water heater requires a double strap (earthquake prone areas), your gas lines need a lighting shield and a ground, main water line needs a ground, etc. Older homes weren't grounded so ground loop wasn't so much an issue but now laws mandate homes to be grounded so power sources like cable TV that provided its own ground is now being grounded at two or more locations (signal cable ground plus your homes power ground). This is where filters and isolators help minimize or eliminate electrical noise from too many grounds.

-groovin
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post #12079 of 13495 Old 03-09-2019, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by gutcheck2001 View Post
Ok guys. Subs are installed and have a few silly questions:

1) hookups - I have the option to go XLR on the front sub, stuck with RCA on the rear. Any benefits to either? Y-split hookup the RCA?

2) my AVM 60 apparently doesn’t calibrate two subs as individuals just tells me to level match them and it tests them as a single sub, which kinda pisses me off. They are sounding ok but I can’t setbdual distances. Makes me want to by an AV7705. Any advice?

I pinged the AVM 60 thread they helped a lot.

3) rubber feet. I am getting quite a bit of rattle. One sub is going on it’s side the other standing both on hardwood. I got some temporary furniture pads but they aren’t cutting it. What about the SVS SoundPath feet? Or maybe some of those subwoofer pads from amazon?
If you really want to get the most from your dual subs in different locations of your room, I’d highly recommend investing in a MiniDSP 2x4HD and downloading the REW software. ARC can work well if your subs are equidistant from your MLP. But... you’d need to time align your subs so they hit your ears at the same time. I love ARC but it doesn’t have independent sub controls but instead treats multiple subs as one, not doing time alignment. I might or might not experiment with trying to run ARC on my dual JTR Cap S1’s then equalizing with REW to compare graphs. But currently I just let my AVM 60 calibrate all my speakers above 120hz. I then use REW to figure out the exact time alignment so both subs truly are acting as one sub despite being in two very different locations in my room. Adding peq’s to certain frequencies also helped tame massive peaks which make for better quality bass. Anyway, this is what’s working in my system so far to great effect. I really feel like I’m getting the most from my subs in my room, backed by REW’s measurements! But there are lots of guys with far more sub tuning experience than me here so you’ve come to the right place.

Credit to @ereed for teaching me the powerful effectiveness of using REW with MiniDSP to tune multiple subs.
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post #12080 of 13495 Old 03-09-2019, 07:07 PM
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It’s like you were reading my mind. Ok I’ll get a mini dsp but I’m totally scared of this REW stuff. Will the ARC mic be ok with it or do I need one from them?
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post #12081 of 13495 Old 03-09-2019, 07:23 PM
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It’s like you were reading my mind. Ok I’ll get a mini dsp but I’m totally scared of this REW stuff. Will the ARC mic be ok with it or do I need one from them?
Unfortunately the proprietary mic that comes with your Anthem doesn’t work with REW.

A Umik mic for around $90 on Amazon or, cheaper yet, a Dayton one work well for running REW measurements.

I was very intimidated with having to learn REW initially. As in very, very hesitant. I though what could it do that ARC couldn’t with my dual subs? Boy was I wrong!! My subs’ response post ARC were anything but flat, as shown on my REW graph, although ARC showed them to be... After getting the hang of what REW with a MiniDSP 2x4HD can do, it becomes a lot easier just like using ARC. Just learn from the guys who’ve used both and man it gets loads easier...

This is a good overview on the topic:

Have fun! Welcome to the rabbit hole.

Speakers: KEF R300 (R,L), KEF R600C (C), JBL 306p mkII (Surrounds), KEF Ci160QR (In-Ceiling) Subs: JTR Captivator S1 x2 Processor/Amps: Anthem AVM60, ATI AT4003, Rotel RB985 mkII Misc: ATV 4k, Sony PS4, Samsung K8500, MiniDSP 2x4HD Video: BenQ HT2050, 100” Screen Room: 2500 cu sq. ft. sealed on suspended floor
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post #12082 of 13495 Old 03-09-2019, 07:25 PM
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Does the rabbit hole have a bottom? Ok adding to cart.....
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Does the rabbit hole have a bottom? Ok adding to cart.....
That’d depend on you but the cool thing about the MiniDSP 2x4HD is that it allows independent controls of up to 4 subs if you ever have the need to add more subwoofage.

Speakers: KEF R300 (R,L), KEF R600C (C), JBL 306p mkII (Surrounds), KEF Ci160QR (In-Ceiling) Subs: JTR Captivator S1 x2 Processor/Amps: Anthem AVM60, ATI AT4003, Rotel RB985 mkII Misc: ATV 4k, Sony PS4, Samsung K8500, MiniDSP 2x4HD Video: BenQ HT2050, 100” Screen Room: 2500 cu sq. ft. sealed on suspended floor
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post #12084 of 13495 Old 03-09-2019, 07:41 PM
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Ok ordered a 2x4hd and a umik 1
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post #12085 of 13495 Old 03-09-2019, 07:42 PM
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Ok ordered a 2x4hd and a umik 1
Excited for you. Be prepared to optimize your subs

Speakers: KEF R300 (R,L), KEF R600C (C), JBL 306p mkII (Surrounds), KEF Ci160QR (In-Ceiling) Subs: JTR Captivator S1 x2 Processor/Amps: Anthem AVM60, ATI AT4003, Rotel RB985 mkII Misc: ATV 4k, Sony PS4, Samsung K8500, MiniDSP 2x4HD Video: BenQ HT2050, 100” Screen Room: 2500 cu sq. ft. sealed on suspended floor
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post #12086 of 13495 Old 03-09-2019, 07:45 PM
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Ok ordered a 2x4hd and a umik 1
I would get the UMIK-1 first and start using the REW. You need these tools to look at your FR.

Then after you have tried all the adjustments and still are unhappy with your FR, get the miniDSP 2x4HD.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 03-10-2019 at 07:27 PM.
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post #12087 of 13495 Old 03-10-2019, 10:58 AM
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Ok ordered a 2x4hd and a umik 1
There's a good tutorial time aligning multiple subs with miniDSP 2X4
https://www.dropbox.com/s/w7jmpozner...%20Version.pdf

Like Chucky said it would be a good idea to get into the excellent REW guide authored by @AustinJerry to get a feel of what's happening with your bass response and what you'll need to work on, the link is in my sig, good luck.

Cheers Jeffrey
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post #12088 of 13495 Old 03-10-2019, 12:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Dead silent!!!! Blue jeans line level filter worked great!
Great. @chucky7 mentioned these higher power Speaker Power amps are susceptible to hum. Maybe Jeff should send Blue Jeans isolation transformers with all 2400/4000.

I am curious: does any 2400/4000 owner use the balanced (XLR) input? Do 2400/4000 owners have hum if you use XLR input?

Asking because it seems that Blue Jeans Isolation Transformer is single ended (RCA) only.

Regards, Can
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post #12089 of 13495 Old 03-10-2019, 12:17 PM
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I use the XLR from my speakerpower amp and no hum. RCA to xlr even.
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post #12090 of 13495 Old 03-10-2019, 12:34 PM
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I tried an xlr wire and I liked the way it locked in there but there was still a hum.
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