Official JTR Speakers Subwoofer Thread - Page 404 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #12091 of 13412 Old 03-10-2019, 01:48 PM
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Official JTR Speakers Subwoofer Thread

[quote=mir3acles;57716258]
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Originally Posted by tanbyte View Post
The beasts are here! Still figuring how to get them moved to the 3rd floor



Please let us know how you moved them to the third floor. I want to get them too but am really worried about moving them around and then fit them in my space. Enjoy the beasts


I got a mover at first thinking i would be able to help out. He came with a dolly. We strapped one sub to it. We could only do it length wise rather than sideways, since the width of my stair case is smaller than than the width of 4000ULF.

When we attempted to tilt the dolly, it just wouldn’t stay and even the full weight of the mover wasn’t enough to keep it tilted. This would be a big problem going up the stairs since we needed not only to keep it tilted, but at the same time drag it up the stairs, one step at a time. Too risky, so we gave up!

Second day, i got a couple of movers from thumbtack who specialized in heavy items moving. They had done a lot of pianos. I had posted the sub snaps and specified the weight so they knew the size of the job. They assured me it would be done with care.

They came right over, removed the grills and double strapped the sub to a motorized dolly. It was still a mission maneuvering the sub due to limited space but they managed to get it up. After they were done, he told me he had underestimated the job coz it was ‘just a couple of speakers’. But in fact, these were the heaviest speakers they had come across

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post #12092 of 13412 Old 03-10-2019, 02:05 PM
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[quote=tanbyte;57724902]
Quote:
Originally Posted by mir3acles View Post



I got a mover at first thinking i would be able to help out. He came with a dolly. We strapped one sub to it. We could only do it length wise rather than sideways, since the width of my stair case is smaller than than the width of 4000ULF.

When we attempted to tilt the dolly, it just wouldn’t stay and even the full weight of the mover wasn’t enough to keep it tilted. This would be a big problem going up the stairs since we needed not only to keep it tilted, but at the same time drag it up the stairs, one step at a time. Too risky, so we gave up!

Second day, i got a couple of movers from thumbtack who specialized in heavy items moving. They had done a lot of pianos. I had posted the sub snaps and specified the weight so they knew the size of the job. They assured me it would be done with care.

They came right over, removed the grills and double strapped the sub to a motorized dolly. It was still a mission maneuvering the sub due to limited space but they managed to get it up. After they were done, he told me he had underestimated the job coz it was ‘just a couple of speakers’. But in fact, these were the heaviest speakers they had come across

Attachment 2537040Attachment 2537042Attachment 2537044


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Wow, how big is that room? And looks like it’s on a suspended floor? Look out for some Sheetrock damage!


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Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
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post #12093 of 13412 Old 03-10-2019, 03:28 PM
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[quote=imureh;57724984]
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Originally Posted by tanbyte View Post



Wow, how big is that room? And looks like it’s on a suspended floor? Look out for some Sheetrock damage!


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Its an open room about 23’ x 30’ x 8’ but the theater section is only about half of it


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post #12094 of 13412 Old 03-10-2019, 06:52 PM
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I just read the mini dsp manual and their suggested procedure for methods A,B, and C. I need some Advil.
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post #12095 of 13412 Old 03-10-2019, 09:03 PM
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That screen is massive! 120+ inches? Is that going to be your final layout or is that just temporary until you get everything settled? Either way that looks to be a nice setup. I'd also like to have an entire wall as a screen. Maybe my wish will come true in the future if I live long enough.

-groovin
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post #12096 of 13412 Old 03-11-2019, 01:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonicgroove View Post
That screen is massive! 120+ inches? Is that going to be your final layout or is that just temporary until you get everything settled? Either way that looks to be a nice setup. I'd also like to have an entire wall as a screen. Maybe my wish will come true in the future if I live long enough.



-groovin


Its at 158” scope. Most of the theater is done but there’s still some work required to conceal wires and the equipment, and some room treatment as well. And atmos too, some time soon hopefully!


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post #12097 of 13412 Old 03-11-2019, 01:45 PM
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Ok my DSP is here and I’m ready to give this a shot. When you build this down my plan is:

1) Run ARC with subs there with the idea of “cleaning up” the bass with REW/DSP.

2) setup DSP so one RCA comes from the anthem splitting two outs to the subs. Configure DSP with the plugin.

3) Get a baseline curve with sub 1, run three tests and auto EQ the average with REW.

4) use multi sub method B as they are not symmetrical. Run three more measurements with sub 1’s auto EQ’ed settings.

5) run same measurements with sub 1 and 2 on. Play with gain settings and timings to get the best curve I can. Verify that it is “better” then my single sub auto EQ’ed baseline.

6). Apply global eq and note changes in measurements.

7) enjoy my life.


Does this procedure look ok? Missing anything?
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post #12098 of 13412 Old 03-11-2019, 04:44 PM
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Ok, got through 1 and 2. My output 2 on my mini dsp is either dead, or I am hooking it up wrong but when I put the subs on outs 1 and 3 and played a test tone they both fired, so I will leave em there. Pretty cool little device.
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post #12099 of 13412 Old 03-11-2019, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gutcheck2001 View Post
Ok, got through 1 and 2. My output 2 on my mini dsp is either dead, or I am hooking it up wrong but when I put the subs on outs 1 and 3 and played a test tone they both fired, so I will leave em there. Pretty cool little device.
Input 1 does output 1&3, Input 2 does Output 2&4
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post #12100 of 13412 Old 03-11-2019, 06:06 PM
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Well that would explain that.
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post #12101 of 13412 Old 03-11-2019, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla Killa View Post
Input 1 does output 1&3, Input 2 does Output 2&4
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Originally Posted by gutcheck2001 View Post
Well that would explain that.
Yes by default Input 1 does output 1 and 3 but you can go in there on plugin and change it to where Input 1 does all 4 outputs without the need to connect 2nd input.
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post #12102 of 13412 Old 03-12-2019, 10:17 AM
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Hi guys,


Ok, my mic is here and I have a pretty stupid question. So, to get my PreAmp to fire off the level tones for calibration I assume I run an HDMI cable from my mac to the Pre? First time doing this....
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post #12103 of 13412 Old 03-12-2019, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gutcheck2001 View Post
Hi guys,


Ok, my mic is here and I have a pretty stupid question. So, to get my PreAmp to fire off the level tones for calibration I assume I run an HDMI cable from my mac to the Pre? First time doing this....
Have you read through AustinJerry's REW guide (linked in my sig)? I don't have a Mac, but I think he has a section in there for Mac users.

To answer your immediate question;, yes, the computer needs to be connected to the AVR/pre-pro via HDMI.
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post #12104 of 13412 Old 03-12-2019, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gutcheck2001 View Post
Ok my DSP is here and I’m ready to give this a shot. When you build this down my plan is:

1) Run ARC with subs there with the idea of “cleaning up” the bass with REW/DSP.
You absolutely need to get your two subs dialed in to each other via distance/phase/delay settings to get a good impulse response in REW before running ARC. Some preliminary global EQ to that "One" sub you get afterwards may also yield better results before running ARC so arc won't have to apply as many filters. If you intend to have a rising house curve for your sub, you won't want to do this part until AFTER arc is run as it will attempt to smooth out your response and negate any attempts at a house curve prior to running the EQ software...

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post #12105 of 13412 Old 03-12-2019, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Have you read through AustinJerry's REW guide (linked in my sig)? I don't have a Mac, but I think he has a section in there for Mac users.

To answer your immediate question;, yes, the computer needs to be connected to the AVR/pre-pro via HDMI.

Reading now. Quite the novel.
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post #12106 of 13412 Old 03-12-2019, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
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You absolutely need to get your two subs dialed in to each other via distance/phase/delay settings to get a good impulse response in REW before running ARC. Some preliminary global EQ to that "One" sub you get afterwards may also yield better results before running ARC so arc won't have to apply as many filters. If you intend to have a rising house curve for your sub, you won't want to do this part until AFTER arc is run as it will attempt to smooth out your response and negate any attempts at a house curve prior to running the EQ software...

Ok, I can do this.


From what I read on mini dsp's site the only way to auto cal the phase / gain is with MSO, which looks to give the best results anyway. Have you tried that?
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post #12107 of 13412 Old 03-12-2019, 11:34 AM
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Ok, I can do this.


From what I read on mini dsp's site the only way to auto cal the phase / gain is with MSO, which looks to give the best results anyway. Have you tried that?
I cannot use MSO as it's calculations assume a rectangular room of some sort. I have a bar/alcove off to one side of my room with a stairwell and hallway to exterior door also coming off the two back corners of the room so between all of that, I wouldn't trust it to get it right...plus, I just do it manually as I have done for 10 years now... If you've got the standard rectangular room, I would absolutely give MSO a try.
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post #12108 of 13412 Old 03-12-2019, 11:35 AM
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I cannot use MSO as it's calculations assume a rectangular room of some sort. I have a bar/alcove off to one side of my room with a stairwell and hallway to exterior door also coming off the two back corners of the room so between all of that, I wouldn't trust it to get it right...plus, I just do it manually as I have done for 10 years now... If you've got the standard rectangular room, I would absolutely give MSO a try.

It is a square, but open to a kitchen.....


Can I ask how you set the gain / phase? SPL for gain and by ear for phase?


Thank you as always for your help. High effort high reward.
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post #12109 of 13412 Old 03-12-2019, 11:54 AM
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What I don't understand is why is it that so often it's the cable box that is the culprit for ground loop problem?? I mean there are so many components, what is it about the cable box that is different?

Does it have something to do with the RG6 input cable? This seems the only thing "unique" electronically to the cable box.
Hi Can,

It has to do with the way the Cable Box manufacturers use/apply the HDMI CEC Pins assignment. From what I have been able to research, there is a mismatch ground pin between the Cable Box Out and the AVR in and the HDMI chain. The subs seem to be affected the most and they normally have the highest/sensitive Amps.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post57638260

As to why they do this (the cable box manufacturers) I have no clue. But there is an easy and inexpensive fix. A HDMI Adapter that lifts the ground pin in the HDMI chain. Far safer solution than using an Electrical Outlet Cheater Plug. Here:

Lindy HDMI CEC Less Adapter, Female to Male (41232):

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DL48KVI...rum-convert-20
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post #12110 of 13412 Old 03-12-2019, 12:23 PM
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I just received notice that Jeff is planning to finish my subs today and hopes to get it shipped out! I'm really looking forward to accepting these structural damaging monsters.

-groovin
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post #12111 of 13412 Old 03-12-2019, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gutcheck2001 View Post
It is a square, but open to a kitchen.....


Can I ask how you set the gain / phase? SPL for gain and by ear for phase?


Thank you as always for your help. High effort high reward.
Ok, sub closest to you will need to be delayed to match its "Virtual distance" with your furthest sub. Start out with zero delay on your furthest sub, zero out the anthem for "Distance" for the sub channel as well. Turn off your main speakers if at all possible while sweeping the sub response and turn your LPF all the way up on the LFE channel if you can. Run a sweep with just the furthest sub operating and keep that response on your REW screen. Gain match your second sub with the first and run a second sweep with just the second sub operating. put this solo response on your REW screen as well.

Now turn both subs on and start running sweeps while slowly adding ms of delay in the minidsp to the closer (2nd) sub until you see the best (and highest spl across the majority of the bandwidth) response when the two are combined. With the minidsp HD you have a decent amount of delay that should easily cover this. You can also use the ETC graphs and impulse response tabs in REW to double check your findings. Each foot of distance difference in sub distance is roughly equivalent to 1ms of delay. So if your closer sub is 4.5 feet closer than your further sub, that's essentially 4.5ms of delay to get them time aligned. This may not yield the absolute best response to start with, but you can then apply some global EQ in the minidsp to fix that. You should now be in good shape to do that, as well as let ARC "See" the sub as one single entity.
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post #12112 of 13412 Old 03-12-2019, 05:36 PM
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I could buy the Dirac plugin for the mini dsp. Think that would yield better results? Sure sounds easier.
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post #12113 of 13412 Old 03-13-2019, 07:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gutcheck2001 View Post
I could buy the Dirac plugin for the mini dsp. Think that would yield better results? Sure sounds easier.
Can you? the DDRC is an additional $200 over the HD's price to validate the usage of dirac's licensing...If you just buy the plugin I guess you pay that premium then to be able to get it?

I dunno, yes it would be way easier but, do you actually want to learn something along the way? Or just let the machines do the thinking for you...

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post #12114 of 13412 Old 03-13-2019, 08:34 AM
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Can you? the DDRC is an additional $200 over the HD's price to validate the usage of dirac's licensing...If you just buy the plugin I guess you pay that premium then to be able to get it?

I dunno, yes it would be way easier but, do you actually want to learn something along the way? Or just let the machines do the thinking for you...



I guess I will see how far / happy I can make myself with REW. I managed to hook everything up and it seems to be working fine. Did a couple LFE only measurements, which also worked (was concerned about this, as I am on a Mac). So now I just need some time alone to figure out how to do proper multi-measurements and apply an EQ and import that into the mini dsp. Getting there....
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The amp on one of my 2400s is bad and Im sending it to speaker power to get repaired or replaced does anyone know how to remove the amp, is it easy and is there any online tutorials I can read as I never replaced an amp before ?
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post #12116 of 13412 Old 03-13-2019, 01:10 PM
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The amp on one of my 2400s is bad and Im sending it to speaker power to get repaired or replaced does anyone know how to remove the amp, is it easy and is there any online tutorials I can read as I never replaced an amp before ?
1. Remove the 12 screws around the opening.
2. Plug in the power cord (make sure it is not plugged into the outlet) and use it as a handle to loosen the amp plate from the cabinet.
3. SLOWLY separate the amp plate from the cabinet.
4. Put it aside as you need to reach into the cabinet to disconnect 2 wires that go to your driver.
5. disconnect the wire to the driver.

The following post has some pictures:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post57638714

Hope this helps!
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post #12117 of 13412 Old 03-13-2019, 01:12 PM
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Ok, That's enough. By my count IIRC that is like 3 of the last 5 2400's that are suffering amp issues, and even more over the past year or so. It seems there is a systemic issue with the 2400 amps and if I were Jeff I would be LIVID.
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post #12118 of 13412 Old 03-13-2019, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
1. Remove the 12 screws around the opening.
2. Plug in the power cord (make sure it is not plugged into the outlet) and use it as a handle to loosen the amp plate from the cabinet.
3. SLOWLY separate the amp plate from the cabinet.
4. Put it aside as you need to reach into the cabinet to disconnect 2 wires that go to your driver.
5. disconnect the wire to the driver.

The following post has some pictures:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post57638714

Hope this helps!
Thanks
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post #12119 of 13412 Old 03-13-2019, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Ok, That's enough. By my count IIRC that is like 3 of the last 5 2400's that are suffering amp issues, and even more over the past year or so. It seems there is a systemic issue with the 2400 amps and if I were Jeff I would be LIVID.
Brian left Speaker Power and I believe that is same time when QC started going down.

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post #12120 of 13412 Old 03-13-2019, 06:36 PM
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For anyone thinking of moving big subs, shoulder dollys literally are the easiest and best way to go about it. I do a lot of moving of huge subs and demo of buildings etc. 2 normal off the street people can easily do 350lbs-400lbs. 2 adults with even a slight bit of strength can do 500 to 600lbs. These and the forearm forklifts are 2 tools I would never go without. You could lift those 2 JTR4000's up the stairs in any configuration failry easily. I moved my 2 x Ghorns with my and my wife up and down 3 flights of stairs!! 280lbs each!
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00022749Q...s%20-%20LD1000

Otherwise, moving blankets with handles, rest the sub on the blanket, one push and one pull and slide it up or down the stairs works in a pinch.

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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