Official JTR Speakers Subwoofer Thread - Page 417 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #12481 of 12682 Old 04-28-2019, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by mir3acles View Post
But what worries me is that audyssey sets my reference sub trim at almost half the max gain. If I increase it further a few more clicks I would be close to the max gain. Is this usually normal? What I have heard from other 4K owners is that typically the reference avr trim is usually set at 9 clock position (and then they bump it up a few more clicks) rather than at 12 'O clock like in my case.
Seems like the amp gain structure is different than the one you had. I would just check with Jeff for peace of mind...He'll tell you if it sounds right or not and will replace it if not...
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post #12482 of 12682 Old 04-28-2019, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Darian97 View Post
So are you saying that the only reason to tune a sub to 10hz is to take advantage of BEQ which takes more money, time, and effort? I've owned and praised JTR but I'm also curious why so much effort is put towards a 10hz tune sub. I read way more than I post but @muscles has a very valid point that I'm sure many of us have thought about. That's why I felt compelled to comment.


JTR makes niche products and they simply identified the 10hz port tune as the next niche they wanted to pursue. It’s not for everyone, and was never intended to be for everyone. Like all JTR products, it’s designed for the select few that are interested in such a thing. People seem to want JTR to go mainstream and appeal to a wider audience, but it’s pretty clear they have no intention of doing so.

If it’s not for you then don’t sweat it. That’s the beauty of all these different companies. Each one has a different mission and design goals - the best thing you can do is pick the company with the goals/mission that aligns with what you want out of your experience. Once you do that, you will no longer wonder if you have the right product.


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post #12483 of 12682 Old 04-28-2019, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by tpe4ever View Post
Do we have any S2 owners in here? I’ve been wondering about that model for a while but don’t recall them being discussed. I have an old model S1 pair, a trio of 4000ULF, and a pair of 2400ULF (sold 2 of my 4 2400ULF, got two more to sell left).



I’ve got 4 rooms set up for music and HT, which is why I tend to have quite a few. As I go from one room to the other, I can’t help but appreciate the S1 sound. Maybe it’s that sealed vs ported thing. So I remain curious about the newer models, and especially the S2 versions.



Has anyone compared the way the S2 sounds to the other JTR models?



My listing for the remaining JTR subwoofers (CA Bay Area) is here:

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/ele...870581169.html

I have an S2. Same sound as S1 but can output about twice as much as S1. I can’t compare it to any other JTR subs and placement makes a massive difference. So the only way to compare the sound signature is to listen to the subs in your room and in the exact same location.

My Seaton Submersives are also in my theater but I have never compared in the same location.


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Subs: JTR Captivator S2, JTR Captivator S1, 2 Seaton Submersive (dual 15")
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post #12484 of 12682 Old 04-28-2019, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FattyMcButterPants View Post
JTR makes niche products and they simply identified the 10hz port tune as the next niche they wanted to pursue. It’s not for everyone, and was never intended to be for everyone. Like all JTR products, it’s designed for the select few that are interested in such a thing. People seem to want JTR to go mainstream and appeal to a wider audience, but it’s pretty clear they have no intention of doing so.

If it’s not for you then don’t sweat it. That’s the beauty of all these different companies. Each one has a different mission and design goals - the best thing you can do is pick the company with the goals/mission that aligns with what you want out of your experience. Once you do that, you will no longer wonder if you have the right product.


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Randy, why don't you take those speakers for sale out of your sig, I know you sold them a while ago....
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post #12485 of 12682 Old 04-28-2019, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
Randy, why don't you take those speakers for sale out of your sig, I know you sold them a while ago....


Haha my bad, forgot it was even there. Should be all set now.


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post #12486 of 12682 Old 04-28-2019, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FattyMcButterPants View Post
JTR makes niche products and they simply identified the 10hz port tune as the next niche they wanted to pursue. It’s not for everyone, and was never intended to be for everyone. Like all JTR products, it’s designed for the select few that are interested in such a thing. People seem to want JTR to go mainstream and appeal to a wider audience, but it’s pretty clear they have no intention of doing so.

If it’s not for you then don’t sweat it. That’s the beauty of all these different companies. Each one has a different mission and design goals - the best thing you can do is pick the company with the goals/mission that aligns with what you want out of your experience. Once you do that, you will no longer wonder if you have the right product.


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FattyMcButterPants,

Excellent points. Something for everyone Sub market is glorious to those that can recall when Subs were like Finding a breeding pair of Unicorns!

MHO in regards to having single digit HZ output in a Sub design is a journey down the road of diminishing returns. A hard decision to leave so much output at higher FR’s is going to be difficult to defend for those on a budget. However, for those limited and fortunate few who have the budget to fill the gap with additional higher tuned Subs, one COULD build a simply incredible Bass fantasy land. Full tilt, full bandwidth, unmatched Sound Stage performance.

FWIW, If I had to do it again, I would stick with the 12Hz tune in the 2400ULF. As others have said, and after living/using my 2400’s for years now. There exists precious little content that goes this low (except computer generated tones). Additionally, I have found low Hz content (Music/Movie) is very fatiguing to the Brain Housing Unit. Perhaps that is more pronounced in my case due to hearing loss and Tinnitus.

Kudos to Jeff for not stopping until every perceivable Bass Production FR desire/need is addressed with a specifically designed Sub. Incredible when you think about his Sub performance product line. The Man is a bonafide genus in Sub designs.

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post #12487 of 12682 Old 04-30-2019, 09:16 AM
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My first JTR sub!

After several years in the making and various plans I finally have a JTR sub. After getting word my sub was ready I emailed if I could pick it up on a Saturday (this past) and surprisingly Jeff P. said sure and he would bring the sub to his house and I could pick it up there. Now I've never met Jeff before but once at his house he invited me in and asked if I wanted to listen to his 2 channel setup, some 215's, check out some other amps/gear I'm unfamiliar with, music, watch some movie scenes in his basement. All in all, the stories about him being a genuine guy is absolutely true.
Once I got the sub home, work started on how to get it down the garage steps into the basement. I screwed a few 2x4's together to make a sled and tied the sub to the sled then winched the sub down into the basement. It was overkill, I now realize I could have held the sub guiding it down the steps but at the time I didn't know how much weight 270'ish pounds feels like angled down the steps and being the most expensive item in my entire movie theater setup.
I powered up the sub using the dedicated 20amp outlet just for this sub but I had a terrible hum. Upon turning the movie room lights on the hum increased even more even thought the lights on their own circuit breaker in the electrical box, and still existing hum as I turned on my Sony receiver and playstation. I remember reading somewhere on this forum or maybe facebook about electrical grounding voltage differences as well as power phases. Someone said to not have all audio/movie room/gear circuit breakers next to each other in the electrical panel but rather alternate them keeping them on the same phase. No idea if this is true or not but for a shortcut I used a 3 pin to 2 pin adapter eliminating the ground plug on sub power cord and the hum went away. At this point I have bass but much less than what I was expecting so I'm guessing I need to work on my receiver settings. It's a 10 year old Sony that was $200 and I have the bass set to max +10 but I think there's other calibration work using the receiver microphone that I need to look into. Or, maybe the content just wasn't there either but I'm not sure. I think tonight I'll calibrate the receiver with the microphone and then try a few movie scenes I know have hard hitting bass.
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post #12488 of 12682 Old 04-30-2019, 10:15 AM
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MinnesotaGreg

First, congratulations on your first JTR. It looks like you went for the gutso. The custom Cap 4000ULF looks absolutely stunning.

There are several solution for the groundloop hum. They were discussed before.

You really need to have a more modern and higher end AVR to fully utilize the creme de la creme. Also, you would need to calibrate your AVR whenever you get a new sub.

Safe and Sound HQ has the Denon AVR-X3400h (2017's model) for $499 shipped so you might look into it. IMO, Audyssey does a much better job in smoothing out the FR.

https://www.safeandsoundhq.com/produ...iver-with-heos

Good luck!

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

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post #12489 of 12682 Old 04-30-2019, 12:56 PM
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Congrats on the purchase of your JTR, they are great. If you're less than impressed w/ the 4000 then I venture you have out of this world expectations or your AVR is lacking.
As @chucky7 mentioned a good AVR can do wonders. I had a Denon originally for my set up but had issues w/ it, I went to a Sony and Jon Lane suggested the Sherbourn. There was a sale, and I grabbed the SR120 for cheap and have been pleased since. The AVR change was noticeable enough that the old lady immediately noticed the SQ improvement when I swappped over.

Outlaw Audio has some decent deals and I've dealt w/ Accessories 4less and even though the Denon was a dud, A4L had good CS.

Good luck and enjoy.
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post #12490 of 12682 Old 04-30-2019, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MinnesotaGreg View Post
After several years in the making and various plans I finally have a JTR sub. After getting word my sub was ready I emailed if I could pick it up on a Saturday (this past) and surprisingly Jeff P. said sure and he would bring the sub to his house and I could pick it up there. Now I've never met Jeff before but once at his house he invited me in and asked if I wanted to listen to his 2 channel setup, some 215's, check out some other amps/gear I'm unfamiliar with, music, watch some movie scenes in his basement. All in all, the stories about him being a genuine guy is absolutely true.

Once I got the sub home, work started on how to get it down the garage steps into the basement. I screwed a few 2x4's together to make a sled and tied the sub to the sled then winched the sub down into the basement. It was overkill, I now realize I could have held the sub guiding it down the steps but at the time I didn't know how much weight 270'ish pounds feels like angled down the steps and being the most expensive item in my entire movie theater setup.

I powered up the sub using the dedicated 20amp outlet just for this sub but I had a terrible hum. Upon turning the movie room lights on the hum increased even more even thought the lights on their own circuit breaker in the electrical box, and still existing hum as I turned on my Sony receiver and playstation. I remember reading somewhere on this forum or maybe facebook about electrical grounding voltage differences as well as power phases. Someone said to not have all audio/movie room/gear circuit breakers next to each other in the electrical panel but rather alternate them keeping them on the same phase. No idea if this is true or not but for a shortcut I used a 3 pin to 2 pin adapter eliminating the ground plug on sub power cord and the hum went away. At this point I have bass but much less than what I was expecting so I'm guessing I need to work on my receiver settings. It's a 10 year old Sony that was $200 and I have the bass set to max +10 but I think there's other calibration work using the receiver microphone that I need to look into. Or, maybe the content just wasn't there either but I'm not sure. I think tonight I'll calibrate the receiver with the microphone and then try a few movie scenes I know have hard hitting bass.


That is a beauty! Jeff does do a fantastic custom finish.


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post #12491 of 12682 Old 04-30-2019, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
If it saved space then I can see a case for it but it says it’s the same cab as a 2400 and around $500 difference to the 2400. That is what is stumping me and Chucky


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I read it as being the same " cabinet design" Not the same " cabinet size".
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post #12492 of 12682 Old 04-30-2019, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
I read it as being the same "cabinet design" Not the same " cabinet size".
I am sure Jeff meant the same size. It basically is the Cap 2400 with a 15" driver and 1200W amp.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #12493 of 12682 Old 04-30-2019, 11:08 PM
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Directly from Jeff:

Product feeler #2 : Many have asked for a smaller subwoofer...

How about a Captivator 2400XS (Extra Small), 24" H x 18" W x 20" D, 10hz tune, 2400W Amp for $2399 + shipping?

It would be 3-4db less than the Captivator 2400, making it at least 97dB @ 10hz, and at least 116dB above 40Hz.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #12494 of 12682 Old 05-01-2019, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
First, congratulations on your first JTR. It looks like you went for the gutso. The custom Cap 4000ULF looks absolutely stunning......You really need to have a more modern and higher end AVR to fully utilize the creme de la creme.
Thank you, and I did go for the gusto because too many times in the past I wished I would have bought up. I absolutely love the looks of my 4000ULF. And this is the reason I'm dragging my feet on a new AVR. I know a new one is dearly needed and almost bought a Yamaha 3070 months ago but just as I did with the 4000ULF, do I just go all in and get a pre/pro? That's weighing on my mind. (and just for reference that 4000ULF cost more than what my car is worth!)
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post #12495 of 12682 Old 05-01-2019, 07:35 AM
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I'm trying to understand something here. I'm aware someone would want a smaller 15 inch vs 18 inch to save space in their room but what would be the point of having a 15 inch in same size cabinet that already has 18 inch in it? Basically you are using same space but sacrificing performance I would think. Why not put 15 inch in smaller cabinet size because most people would choose 18 inch version if its same cabinet.…..I know I would. Maybe something is going on here I'm not aware of? Is it just me thinking differently than what Jeff has in mind?
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post #12496 of 12682 Old 05-01-2019, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by MinnesotaGreg View Post
Thank you, and I did go for the gusto because too many times in the past I wished I would have bought up. I absolutely love the looks of my 4000ULF. And this is the reason I'm dragging my feet on a new AVR. I know a new one is dearly needed and almost bought a Yamaha 3070 months ago but just as I did with the 4000ULF, do I just go all in and get a pre/pro? That's weighing on my mind. (and just for reference that 4000ULF cost more than what my car is worth!)
If you have been very happy with your current AVR you will be even more happy with higher end today's AVR out there. For me I personally like prepros….they are more flexibile but it will cost you more considering you have to buy external amps with it. Try new AVR....if you feel like you need more power for your speakers or want better upgrade path go for a prepro.

You also mentioned you have your sub output levels on AVR on max...please dial it back at least midpoint and turn up the gain on the jtr sub instead. This will prevent clipping.
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post #12497 of 12682 Old 05-01-2019, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MinnesotaGreg View Post
Thank you, and I did go for the gusto because too many times in the past I wished I would have bought up. I absolutely love the looks of my 4000ULF. And this is the reason I'm dragging my feet on a new AVR. I know a new one is dearly needed and almost bought a Yamaha 3070 months ago but just as I did with the 4000ULF, do I just go all in and get a pre/pro? That's weighing on my mind. (and just for reference that 4000ULF cost more than what my car is worth!)
It depends on what speakers you have and how loud you listen.

Personally I would spend as little as possible on AVRs, provided that they provide the functions and expandibilities I need. Therefore, I would choose the least expensive model that has Pre-Outs.

In my case, the Denon AVR-X3400H would have sufficed had I only wanted 2 Atmos speakers.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #12498 of 12682 Old 05-01-2019, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by ereed View Post
I'm trying to understand something here. I'm aware someone would want a smaller 15 inch vs 18 inch to save space in their room but what would be the point of having a 15 inch in same size cabinet that already has 18 inch in it? Basically you are using same space but sacrificing performance I would think. Why not put 15 inch in smaller cabinet size because most people would choose 18 inch version if its same cabinet.…..I know I would. Maybe something is going on here I'm not aware of? Is it just me thinking differently than what Jeff has in mind?
Are you talking about feeler #1 or feeler #2 ?

Feeler #1 is 15" driver, 1200W amp, 10Hz tuned in Cap 2400's cabinet, $1,999 + shipping.

Feeler #2 is 15" driver, 2400W amp, 10Hz tuned, 24" H x 18" W x 20" D, $2399 + shipping.

Both are aimed at the people who want to spend less than Cap 2400 ($2499 + shipping).

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 05-01-2019 at 12:26 PM.
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post #12499 of 12682 Old 05-01-2019, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Are you talking about feeler #1 or feeler #2 ?

Feeler #1 is 15" driver, 1200W amp, 10Hz tuned in Cap 2400's cabinet, $1,999 + shipping.

Feeler #2 is 15" driver, 2400W amp, 10Hz tuned, 24" H x 18" W x 20" D, $2399 + shipping.

Both are aim at the people who want to spend less than Cap 2400 ($2499 + shipping).
My question is why use same size cabinet for one of the 15 inch options though? While I know its cheaper version, I'm not talking about saving money or performance here. I'm asking what is the point to keep same big cap2400 cabinet footprint with smaller amp and driver when you can just go with a smaller cabinet for 15 inch and just call it mini cap2400 instead?

Or maybe Jeff has an idea to come out with first 10hz ported 15 inch woofer? Which I can understand being the first in everything but I don't think anyone would want a smaller driver when they can spend little more for larger driver in same footprint. Now if the cabinet is smaller for 15 inch then that makes sense to me. I'm just thinking out loud here. Just rambling.

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post #12500 of 12682 Old 05-01-2019, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by ereed View Post
My question is why use same size cabinet for one of the 15 inch options though? While I know its cheaper version, I'm not talking about saving money or performance here. I'm asking what is the point to keep same big cap2400 cabinet footprint with smaller amp and driver when you can just go with a smaller cabinet for 15 inch and just call it mini cap2400 instead?



Or maybe Jeff has an idea to come out with first 10hz ported 15 inch woofer? Which I can understand being the first in everything but I don't think anyone would want a smaller driver when they can spend little more for larger driver in same footprint. Now if the cabinet is smaller for 15 inch then that makes sense to me. I'm just thinking out loud here. Just rambling.

You’re not alone there from a consumer perspective. My thoughts are anyone spending $2K or more on a high end sub probably isn’t looking to sacrifice output to save a few hundred bucks with a smaller amp and driver, but that’s me. Go big or...
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post #12501 of 12682 Old 05-01-2019, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Are you talking about feeler #1 or feeler #2 ?

Feeler #1 is 15" driver, 1200W amp, 10Hz tuned in Cap 2400's cabinet, $1,999 + shipping.

Feeler #2 is 15" driver, 2400W amp, 10Hz tuned, 24" H x 18" W x 20" D, $2399 + shipping.

Both are aim at the people who want to spend less than Cap 2400 ($2499 + shipping).

Are you sure feeler #2 is a 15? Sounds like the regular 18 in a smaller cab. That would make more sense, especially considering the price.
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post #12502 of 12682 Old 05-01-2019, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ereed View Post
My question is why use same size cabinet for one of the 15 inch options though? While I know its cheaper version, I'm not talking about saving money or performance here. I'm asking what is the point to keep same big cap2400 cabinet footprint with smaller amp and driver when you can just go with a smaller cabinet for 15 inch and just call it mini cap2400 instead?

Or maybe Jeff has an idea to come out with first 10hz ported 15 inch woofer? Which I can understand being the first in everything but I don't think anyone would want a smaller driver when they can spend little more for larger driver in same footprint. Now if the cabinet is smaller for 15 inch then that makes sense to me. I'm just thinking out loud here. Just rambling.
Well, AFAIK, output down low requires more internal volume or power. By going with the same size 18" cabinet, Jeff can achieve 3~4db less output than the Cap 2400 with just 1/2 of the amplification. This creates enough product differentiation by price.

Feeler #2 creates enough product differentiation by size.

Personally, I like door #3 , the Cap 2400 with a 1200W amp (and therefore 3db less output) for $2,099 + shipping...

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post #12503 of 12682 Old 05-01-2019, 10:47 AM
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Are you sure feeler #2 is a 15? Sounds like the regular 18 in a smaller cab. That would make more sense, especially considering the price.
Yes, I am sure.

A 18" sub, 10Hz tuned, in a 24" H x 18" W x 20" D cabinet, if feasible, would be very very expensive.

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post #12504 of 12682 Old 05-01-2019, 11:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Personally, I like door #3 , the Cap 2400 with a 1200W amp (and therefore 3db less output) for $2,099 + shipping...
Yes. Essentially bring back the 1400 and somehow keep it under $2000. I'm guessing the $2000 price point is an important break-point for a number of buyers.

IMHO the heart and soul of JTR, and what separates JTR from most competitors, is an 18 inch driver with 33 Xmax - any configuration around this, and keep price under $2000, would be a welcome addition. The 10 Hz tune is not as critical at this price point, but of course it would be sweet .

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post #12505 of 12682 Old 05-01-2019, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Are you talking about feeler #1 or feeler #2 ?

Feeler #1 is 15" driver, 1200W amp, 10Hz tuned in Cap 2400's cabinet, $1,999 + shipping.

Feeler #2 is 15" driver, 2400W amp, 10Hz tuned, 24" H x 18" W x 20" D, $2399 + shipping.

Both are aim at the people who want to spend less than Cap 2400 ($2499 + shipping).

Honestly, I don't think either are particularly a good idea. JTR subs are pricey as it is because they are no compromise subs, for a very niche demographic. Those aren't significant enough discounts to steer the type of person JTR attracts away from a Cap2400. Once you consider the cost of those lower end JTR subs with shipping the competition has much more to choose from that will most likely have more output above 16hz. Chasing the low frequency dragon is never going to be cheap and those that do should realize this and save up for a big boy



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post #12506 of 12682 Old 05-01-2019, 10:02 PM
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I know different amps have different output ratings which are incorrect at times. So say if an amp has a 170w output/ channel vs an amp with a 125w/ channel make a difference to wattage that is being sent to the sub out as well, or the output/ channel are for the f/l/c/surround speakers? Would a 170w/ channel amp have more power going to the sub out or would it be the same regardless of the wattage of an amp?
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post #12507 of 12682 Old 05-01-2019, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by mir3acles View Post
I know different amps have different output ratings which are incorrect at times. So say if an amp has a 170w output/ channel vs an amp with a 125w/ channel make a difference to wattage that is being sent to the sub out as well, or the output/ channel are for the f/l/c/surround speakers? Would a 170w/ channel amp have more power going to the sub out or would it be the same regardless of the wattage of an amp?
Those are two separate circuits, and the power of one has nothing to do with the power of the other.
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post #12508 of 12682 Old 05-02-2019, 06:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Are you talking about feeler #1 or feeler #2 ?

Feeler #1 is 15" driver, 1200W amp, 10Hz tuned in Cap 2400's cabinet, $1,999 + shipping.

Feeler #2 is 15" driver, 2400W amp, 10Hz tuned, 24" H x 18" W x 20" D, $2399 + shipping.

Both are aimed at the people who want to spend less than Cap 2400 ($2499 + shipping).
Quote:
Originally Posted by muscles View Post
Honestly, I don't think either are particularly a good idea. JTR subs are pricey as it is because they are no compromise subs, for a very niche demographic. Those aren't significant enough discounts to steer the type of person JTR attracts away from a Cap2400. Once you consider the cost of those lower end JTR subs with shipping the competition has much more to choose from that will most likely have more output above 16hz. Chasing the low frequency dragon is never going to be cheap and those that do should realize this and save up for a big boy

Greg

I know that Jeff is intent on pursuing the 10Hz niche, but as the cabinets, woofer, or amplifier power get smaller, 10Hz makes less and less sense to me. If as Can suggested, Jeff wants to bring back a version of the Cap 1400, with whatever size driver, in whatever size cabinet, I would suggest that he allow the port tune to be up in the 14Hz or higher range.

I remain convinced that there is no practical difference between a 10Hz port-tuned Cap 2400ULF, and a 14Hz port-tuned Cap 2400ULF, except for some slight redistribution of SPL from about the >15Hz range to the <15Hz range. Side-by-side, I doubt that anyone could tell the difference with 99.9% of available content.

As any new model JTR subs become more economical and less powerful, the idea that they will pair well with much more powerful JTR subs, just because they have the same port tune, becomes more far-fetched to me. The DSP used in the more powerful subs will be very different from the DSP used in the much less powerful ones, even if the port tunes are the same. And, they may be difficult to integrate even with measurement capability and independent DSP.

I like the fact that JTR still produces a Cap 118HT, with an 18Hz port tune. That gives people very clear choices between the higher-tuned (18Hz), greater mid-bass 118, and the lower-tuned, greater low-bass Cap 2400's. (The Cap 4000ULF is in a class by itself.) It seems to me that if he wants a smaller, less expensive model, he should go up in tuning point, and make certain that he is getting a little more mid-bass and >15Hz bass, in the process, rather than still trying to hit the 10Hz niche with a smaller less powerful sub.

Of course, some potential buyers may be captivated (pun intended) by the idea of having a small and relatively inexpensive 10Hz subwoofer. But, I don't know that I would encourage that idea too much. I tend to agree that 10Hz is mostly for the bigger subs, and it costs something to achieve in a meaningful way.

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post #12509 of 12682 Old 05-02-2019, 07:36 AM
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You can absolutely tell the difference between low tuned and high tuned subs. It depends on how loud and low you want. At low levels it is not worth it. If you want 120 plus dB of ULF than one can easily tell. I have tried so many times to go back to higher tuned subs and I always miss the low end, the higher tuned subs always sound thin or hollow.

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post #12510 of 12682 Old 05-02-2019, 08:16 AM
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Even without BEQ it seems there is increasing content in the low teens & single digits. With all the superhero, space, and horror movies lately... 10Hz tune sounds like a great idea to me. I'd rather just appreciate all the available options that appeal to me, than trying to patrol the ideas that aren't, not wanting them to be made. I say the more options the better!
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