Official JTR Speakers Subwoofer Thread - Page 421 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #12601 of 12684 Old 06-17-2019, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by ratm View Post
Hey everyone,



Posted this last week but the thread went dead so I’ll try again:



I have a 2013 Passive Cap 2400 that I currently power with an EP4000. If I purchased a new Cap 2400, can I power both with the one plate amp on the new Cap? Thanks!
I would talk to Jeff, he can prob deliver a 2400 enclosure with the 4 or 6kW speakerpower plate amp for a premium, to allow you to power the passive cap 2400 via the Neutrik connector.

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post #12602 of 12684 Old 06-17-2019, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by MinnesotaGreg View Post
Now, Marantz or Yamaha.....
Ditto chucky and Ray, Marantz or Denon and you can't go wrong.

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post #12603 of 12684 Old 06-18-2019, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Pradeep2 View Post
I would talk to Jeff, he can prob deliver a 2400 enclosure with the 4 or 6kW speakerpower plate amp for a premium, to allow you to power the passive cap 2400 via the Neutrik connector.

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Great idea! Thanks!
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post #12604 of 12684 Old 06-21-2019, 03:20 PM
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Since getting the Noesis 212HTs, I haven't had time to properly optimize my gear. Last night I reran Audyssey and played around with REW...

I started with the sub gain at 5 clicks and the LF Adjust at Cut (minimum). This setting previously yielded a sub level of -11dB.

No surprise at all, the FR was much smoother with the Audy on. The Audy actually extended my FR by lifting under 10Hz. This may not be a good thing and I will talk about it later. The dip centered at 67Hz was still there... Well, with only 1 sub, there was only so much the Audy can do...

Next would be a good time for the Sub Distance Tweak.

There was nothing to it. The Audy yielded a subwoofer distance of 18.2 ft. So I just went in and changed the distance in increments of 1 ft and measured the FR. Rinse and repeat. I settled on 20.2 ft which provided the smoothest FR around my crossover of 80 Hz.

It's time to play around with the LF Adjust... Recall, I ran the Audy with the LF Adjust at Cut or minimum...

The LF Adjust attenuated low end output. The hinge was somewhere higher at 50Hz or so. My 2018 Cap 4000ULF's LF Adjust was 18dB between Boost (maximum) and Cut at the port tune. If I ran the 4000ULF outdoors, LF Adjust at Boost would provide the deepest extension to 10Hz. Let's assume that when I run the FR, I am getting 78dB @ 10Hz with the LF Adjust at Boost. Then if I measured the FR with the LF Adjust at Cut, I should be around 60dB @ 10Hz.

Due to the dip at 13Hz, it was hard to see the effect of the LF Adjust. The following 1/6 smoothed FR should illustrate better:

Wow, I was getting 98dB @ 10Hz playing test tone at 81dB. This means my 2400 cu ft non-sealed family room provided pretty decent boundary gain and pressure vessel gain or cabin gain.

I settled on gain at 6 clicks and the LF Adjust at 3 clicks, at least for measurement purposes. Let's examine the FR with Audy On vs Off

So I was +/- 5 dB down to 6 Hz. Not bad, not bad at all...

Finally, the center channel vs subwoofer only:
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Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 06-22-2019 at 02:34 AM.
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post #12605 of 12684 Old 06-21-2019, 07:08 PM
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Damn !!! what a great post @chucky7 and that's a fantastic response for 1 sub!


Could you also please upload a picture of your sub+C frequency response showing say 10Hz to 20KHz with 1/6 Oct smoothing?
I think it really helps to show a more "overall" picture of what the system sounds like


cheers man
J
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post #12606 of 12684 Old 06-21-2019, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiebosco View Post
Damn !!! what a great post @chucky7 and that's a fantastic response for 1 sub!

Could you also please upload a picture of your sub+C frequency response showing say 10Hz to 20KHz with 1/6 Oct smoothing?
I think it really helps to show a more "overall" picture of what the system sounds like

cheers man
J
Thanks man!

Certainly...

Spoiler alert... It's not as flat as I would like...
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Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 06-22-2019 at 03:08 AM.
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post #12607 of 12684 Old 06-22-2019, 12:11 AM
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Thanks mate!


That's not too bad, I just use it for a general overview of how hot subs are compared to the speakers


TBH I actually thought you'd have the bass quite a few dB higher in level than that!


This is about my "usual" amount of bass boost, this is Sub+C 20hz-20kHz 1/6 oct smoothing

I always thought I was pretty tame!

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TV: Panasonic P65ST60 AVR: Denon 4311ci Speakers: PSA MTM-210C (Centre), PSA MTM-210 (Left & Right), PSA MT-110 (Surrounds) Subwoofers: Dual Seaton SubMersives
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post #12608 of 12684 Old 06-22-2019, 03:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiebosco View Post
Thanks mate!

That's not too bad, I just use it for a general overview of how hot subs are compared to the speakers

TBH I actually thought you'd have the bass quite a few dB higher in level than that!

This is about my "usual" amount of bass boost, this is Sub+C 20hz-20kHz 1/6 oct smoothing

I always thought I was pretty tame!
Ahhh, I didn't know you want to see that...

Okay, remember I always stress for "measurement purposes"... The goal being a better looking graph just for show...

I always "listen" with the gain at 10 and the LF Adjust at the Max vs at 6 and 3 for measurements

Therefore my "usual" CC + Sub 20hz-20kHz, 1/6 Oct smoothing is the the green graph...

I think if I want a more uniform raise from ?Hz to 80Hz, maybe I should do so in AVR subwoofer level.

But of course this does not show the whole picture... Recall the Cap 4000ULF's LF Adjust has a range of 18dB @ 10Hz...

My "usual" CC + Sub 5hz-20kHz, 1/6 Oct, the green graph...
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Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 06-22-2019 at 04:43 AM.
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post #12609 of 12684 Old 06-22-2019, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Ahhh, I didn't know you want to see that...

Okay, remember I always stress for "measurement purposes"... The goal being a better looking graph just for show...

I always "listen" with the gain at 10 and the LF Adjust at the Max vs at 6 and 3 for measurements





I think if I want a more uniform raise from ?Hz to 80Hz, maybe I should do so in AVR subwoofer level.

But of course this does not show the whole picture... Recall the Cap 4000ULF's LF Adjust has a range of 18dB @ 10Hz...

My "usual" CC + Sub 5hz-20kHz, 1/6 Oct, the green graph...
ahhhh yeah man , that's more like it!
I'm quite lucky in my room ,my speakers are on the "long"wall, so I sit fairly close to them, I also have a fair amount of room treatment (particularly the front and rear wall) which helped smooth out the 300Hz and up range




I think I'd personally like the BLUE trace above (+ a few dB), I'm assuming that's after moving the Gain to 10 but leaving the LF adjust at 3? Where are the speakers crossed at? (it looks like 60hz?)


I would try those settings, but raise the AVR sub trim 3-6dB or (or more),measure and have a listen, and then maybe take the LFA a notch or 2 if needed
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TV: Panasonic P65ST60 AVR: Denon 4311ci Speakers: PSA MTM-210C (Centre), PSA MTM-210 (Left & Right), PSA MT-110 (Surrounds) Subwoofers: Dual Seaton SubMersives
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post #12610 of 12684 Old 06-22-2019, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
I always "listen" with the gain at 10 and the LF Adjust at the Max vs at 6 and 3 for measurements
Nice work chucky! I'd say those graphs are a tad better looking than what you had with MCACC!

That's interesting, your settings to run audy and your listening settings almost mirror mine. At 4 clicks on the gain audy returns a -10. Then I boost the subs another 6 clicks for to get to 10 which is only mid way on the gain. That's roughly a 9 dB boost. I have to max out the LFA to get a flat response down to 10hz. I get no room gain with a big open room. I'm also trying a low shelf filter of about +5 to see how that sounds for just normal TV listening and streaming. Kinda like a general BEQ. For movies I've been using BEQ. It's taken while to learn but it's been a pretty sweet listening ride. For sure a far cry from the pitiful measurements I took more than a year ago.

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post #12611 of 12684 Old 06-22-2019, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by jamiebosco View Post
ahhhh yeah man , that's more like it!
I'm quite lucky in my room ,my speakers are on the "long"wall, so I sit fairly close to them, I also have a fair amount of room treatment (particularly the front and rear wall) which helped smooth out the 300Hz and up range

I think I'd personally like the BLUE trace above (+ a few dB), I'm assuming that's after moving the Gain to 10 but leaving the LF adjust at 3? Where are the speakers crossed at? (it looks like 60hz?)

I would try those settings, but raise the AVR sub trim 3-6dB or (or more),measure and have a listen, and then maybe take the LFA a notch or 2 if needed
Yeah, with the speakers on the long wall, you are closer to them and you also hear less 'room'. My front stage speakers are 11 to 14 ft away from me and other than carpet, I have no room treatment...


The gain has 20 clicks and the LF Adjust has 10 clicks.
The Red trace is the gain at 6 clicks and the LF Adjust at 3 clicks.
The Blue trace is the gain at 10 clicks and the LF Adjust at 5 clicks.
The Green trace is the gain at 10 clicks and the LF Adjust at 10 clicks.

Yes. The blue trace is my safe setting.

I just switched the crossover to 100Hz. It's interesting that the graph is the same with the crossover at 80Hz or 100Hz. I will experiment with different settings.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 06-22-2019 at 08:47 PM.
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post #12612 of 12684 Old 06-22-2019, 05:57 PM
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Yeah Blue trace looks good!
Just looking at it , I think I'd probably end up adding 2-3dB to the AVR sub trim or via the Subs gain dial
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post #12613 of 12684 Old 06-23-2019, 08:07 PM
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Let's see 10-300Hz L+sub R+sub and C+sub with no smoothing if you don't mind .......Also sub only sweep
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post #12614 of 12684 Old 06-23-2019, 09:20 PM
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So I tweaked some more...


Before (red) : Right after running Audyssey, Gain = 5 clicks, LF Adjust = 0 (cut), Sub level = -11 dB.
After (purple) : After the adjustments, Gain = 10 clicks, LF Adjust = 5 clicks, Sub level = -8 dB, SBT.
Before and After were measured with MV @ -30dB.

Green is MV @ -8dB, my usual listening volume.

Below is CC (purple) vs Sub Only (pink)

I did not measure L and R...

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 06-24-2019 at 07:45 AM.
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post #12615 of 12684 Old 06-30-2019, 11:44 PM
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Hey guys I m in the market for new speakers and Ihave the Klipsch rp280 as my front towers I like them but Ever since I got the jtr 2400 subs I realized how much impact good subs and speakers do to the overall experience I was thinking getting the svs ultra towers or stretch my budget and go all out and get focal 936 or 948 speakers which run $2k to $2500 each because they have a great sound stage as far as I understand they look great I haven’t listened to them yet in person so I don’t really know what to expect but I remembered Jtr makes great speakers such as the neosis 212ht And Chucky has nothing but great things to say about them I guess I would like to know how the jtr neosis would compare to the focals I could get svs ultras for $800 at svs outlet store but if jtr or focals are on a different level in sound and clarity and punch that’s what I would purchase, if anyone has any experience with the speakers I mentioned please let me know
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post #12616 of 12684 Old 07-01-2019, 04:53 AM
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Originally Posted by BobZealand View Post
Hey guys I m in the market for new speakers and Ihave the Klipsch rp280 as my front towers I like them but Ever since I got the jtr 2400 subs I realized how much impact good subs and speakers do to the overall experience I was thinking getting the svs ultra towers or stretch my budget and go all out and get focal 936 or 948 speakers which run $2k to $2500 each because they have a great sound stage as far as I understand they look great I haven’t listened to them yet in person so I don’t really know what to expect but I remembered Jtr makes great speakers such as the neosis 212ht And Chucky has nothing but great things to say about them I guess I would like to know how the jtr neosis would compare to the focals I could get svs ultras for $800 at svs outlet store but if jtr or focals are on a different level in sound and clarity and punch that’s what I would purchase, if anyone has any experience with the speakers I mentioned please let me know


The JTR would be a much better performer for HT. If you are looking for CD type speaker JTR is hard to beat. For less money though the PSA MTM are really good too. Not as good as JTR but not as expensive either. You can decide how much you want to spend


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Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD
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post #12617 of 12684 Old 07-01-2019, 05:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobZealand View Post
Hey guys I m in the market for new speakers and Ihave the Klipsch rp280 as my front towers I like them but Ever since I got the jtr 2400 subs I realized how much impact good subs and speakers do to the overall experience I was thinking getting the svs ultra towers or stretch my budget and go all out and get focal 936 or 948 speakers which run $2k to $2500 each because they have a great sound stage as far as I understand they look great I haven’t listened to them yet in person so I don’t really know what to expect but I remembered Jtr makes great speakers such as the neosis 212ht And Chucky has nothing but great things to say about them I guess I would like to know how the jtr neosis would compare to the focals I could get svs ultras for $800 at svs outlet store but if jtr or focals are on a different level in sound and clarity and punch that’s what I would purchase, if anyone has any experience with the speakers I mentioned please let me know
I have not heard the SVS Ultra towers. The general idea I read about them is that it's not hard to do better for $2000 a pair. Therefore, I think the Focal 936/948 and (definitely) JTR speakers are on a different level.

As for the JTR speakers in the same price range as the Focal 936/948:
For $2500 each floorstander, I would look at the 210RT (3 way) $2,499 or the 212T (2 way) $2,199.
For $2500 each bookshelf, I would look at the 212HTR (3 way) $2,599, 228HTR (3 way) $2,199 or the 212HT (2 way) $1,899.

The Focal speakers have a more refined finish. On the other hand, you could do any JTR speakers with custom finishes.

I have not heard the Focal 936/948s. However, if you are looking for the clarity and punch, then the JTR speakers should be on the top of your list. You should also post in the JTR speakers thread to get more responses.

The Focal 948 is 45.25" x 14.6" x 16.6" and weighs 77 lbs. In contrast, the $1499 228HT is 26.5″x12.25″x14″ and weighs 75lbs. The Focal 948 cabinet is much larger and made of MDF. This means the drivers and parts in the 228HT are much heavier.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 07-01-2019 at 05:12 AM.
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post #12618 of 12684 Old 07-01-2019, 05:18 AM
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@BobZealand

I (carefully) opened up a JTR Noesis 212HT: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...l#post58136956

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #12619 of 12684 Old 07-01-2019, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
@BobZealand

I (carefully) opened up a JTR Noesis 212HT: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...l#post58136956
Thank you my friend 💥
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post #12620 of 12684 Old 07-01-2019, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
The JTR would be a much better performer for HT. If you are looking for CD type speaker JTR is hard to beat. For less money though the PSA MTM are really good too. Not as good as JTR but not as expensive either. You can decide how much you want to spend


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I actually did think of psa but spending a little more seems like a good idea as far as the svs are concerned you made me Realize that’s tenor a good option thanks
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post #12621 of 12684 Old 07-01-2019, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by BobZealand View Post
Thank you my friend 💥
You're welcome!

Where are you located? It's never a bad idea to see if someone near you has JTR speakers.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #12622 of 12684 Old 07-02-2019, 03:44 AM
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You're welcome!

Where are you located? It's never a bad idea to see if someone near you has JTR speakers.
I’m from Seattle, It sure would be nice to hear some in person
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post #12623 of 12684 Old 07-02-2019, 10:53 AM
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I’m from Seattle, It sure would be nice to hear some in person
You should post in the JTR speakers thread. Not many in the JTR subwoofer thread have JTR speakers.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #12624 of 12684 Old 07-02-2019, 02:57 PM
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2020 Captivator 4000ULF - ST (sofa table): $3699 + freight.

Dimensions: 28" H x 58" W x 20.5" D

Same specs as the other 4000ULFs... 4000W, 10Hz tuned, 33mm X-Max drivers... yada, yada, yada...



Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 07-02-2019 at 03:24 PM.
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post #12625 of 12684 Old 07-02-2019, 03:16 PM
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Directly from JTR Speakers facebook:

Fireworks will have some competition "Booming" this July. Sale pricing too low to advertise on the Captivator 118HT and Captivator 2400. The 118HT subs are ready to ship. Next batch of 2400s will be ready to ship within 2 weeks. Please email for details. Include your postal code and how many you're interested in. [email protected]

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #12626 of 12684 Old 07-02-2019, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Directly from JTR Speakers facebook:

Fireworks will have some competition "Booming" this July. Sale pricing too low to advertise on the Captivator 118HT and Captivator 2400. The 118HT subs are ready to ship. Next batch of 2400s will be ready to ship within 2 weeks. Please email for details. Include your postal code and how many you're interested in. [email protected]


Man, the prices are outstanding when JTR does this type of sale. Anyone on the fence about these models should absolutely contact them now! Exactly how I got my 1400’s last year.


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post #12627 of 12684 Old 07-02-2019, 05:03 PM
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Good to see JTR has new sofa sub out. Perfect for nearfield right behind the couch! The box does look bigger than normal cap4000 overall cu ft?
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post #12628 of 12684 Old 07-02-2019, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ereed View Post
Good to see JTR has new sofa sub out. Perfect for nearfield right behind the couch! The box does look bigger than normal cap4000 overall cu ft?
It actually has the same internal volume as the regular 4000ULF (because I had a small part in the cabinet design)... It is more expensive because the cabinet has 2 separate ports and is more expensive to produce...
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Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #12629 of 12684 Old 07-02-2019, 07:50 PM
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It actually has the same internal volume as the regular 4000ULF (because I had a small part in the cabinet design)... It is more expensive because the cabinet has 2 separate ports and is more expensive to produce...
Awesome! Maybe you can be the first one to get it nearfield!
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post #12630 of 12684 Old 07-03-2019, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ereed View Post
Good to see JTR has new sofa sub out. Perfect for nearfield right behind the couch! The box does look bigger than normal cap4000 overall cu ft?
I was thinking that would make a PERFECT center speaker stand!

Todd

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