Official JTR Speakers Subwoofer Thread - Page 422 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #12631 of 13425 Old 07-03-2019, 10:23 PM
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Anyone with a Cap 2400 or Cap 4000 in the San Diego area willing to give me a demo? I'll be here till Friday night.
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post #12632 of 13425 Old 07-04-2019, 01:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoJustGeo View Post
Anyone with a Cap 2400 or Cap 4000 in the San Diego area willing to give me a demo? I'll be here till Friday night.
Well, I know where you can listen to the Cap 4000ULF and Noesis 212HTs in the SoCal area... It's just a little drive for you...

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FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 07-04-2019 at 04:38 AM.
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post #12633 of 13425 Old 07-04-2019, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toddct View Post
I was thinking that would make a PERFECT center speaker stand!

Todd
My dual custom funks are similar design (sofa table dimensions) and I have one behind me (used to have both nearfield) and now using the other one as center stand. Go for it!
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post #12634 of 13425 Old 07-04-2019, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by ereed View Post
My dual custom funks are similar design (sofa table dimensions) and I have one behind me (used to have both nearfield) and now using the other one as center stand. Go for it!
I'm with you ereed! That is certainly on my list if/when I ever do get a dedicated room.

Out of curiosity, did you notice a better FR once you split the subs up? If I did add another one, particularly a cap 4K, I would likely put that up front and center and then move the 2400s to the back or sides where the FR would be the best. I've read other people have had good results using 3 subs.

Todd
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post #12635 of 13425 Old 07-04-2019, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toddct View Post
I'm with you ereed! That is certainly on my list if/when I ever do get a dedicated room.

Out of curiosity, did you notice a better FR once you split the subs up? If I did add another one, particularly a cap 4K, I would likely put that up front and center and then move the 2400s to the back or sides where the FR would be the best. I've read other people have had good results using 3 subs.

Todd
The more subs you add the better the freq response will be obviously once you get them time aligned. But it doesn't always work the way you want it to and most of the time where it looks best doesn't always perform best and it is a good idea to always test it in REW to verify. In my case just the nearfield only removes the room modes since its away from boundaries and I get smoother response. My sub up front isn't the best response but it looked really cool and I like to show it off so its there for time being til I can afford more subs.

But if you really want more TR and chest pounding and have the room try it behind your couch. Even as powerful as my funks are and I'm on concrete flooring...I don't get much TR when both up front....moving it behind me gave me a lot of TR.

Long story short....3 subs will be better than 2! Go for it if you got the funds. Just make sure all 3 of your subs have same port tune to help blend better.
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post #12636 of 13425 Old 07-04-2019, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ereed View Post
My sub up front isn't the best response but it looked really cool and I like to show it off.........
Isn't that what really matters!?!

Agreed on everything else. I get pretty good TR being on 2nd level wood floor. Luckily the 2400 and 4k are both 10hz so no issue there. I also have a miniDSP and as you know, you can dial in just about any FR you want.

Looks like I found my future center speaker stand.

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post #12637 of 13425 Old 07-04-2019, 03:10 PM
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Man, the prices are outstanding when JTR does this type of sale. Anyone on the fence about these models should absolutely contact them now! Exactly how I got my 1400’s last year.


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+1. Picked up my 118 on this sale last year.

(And i’ve still got it after almost a year...)
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post #12638 of 13425 Old 07-04-2019, 11:02 PM
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I just watched Cloverfield Paradox (2018)



This movie did not disappoint in the LFE department! It was intense and very well done thoughout! When the bass hits, it hit harder and deeper than Interstellar... I wish the story line were as good as Interstellar though...

The Cap 4000ULF handled the LFE with ease. It was clean and impactful with a lot of TR. It took me by surprised quite a few times.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 07-05-2019 at 07:28 AM.
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post #12639 of 13425 Old 07-05-2019, 09:04 AM
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Was anyone playing their JTR subs really loud yesterday morning around 10:30am in the SoCal area? My home shook quite a lot!
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post #12640 of 13425 Old 07-05-2019, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tojo_m View Post
Was anyone playing their JTR subs really loud yesterday morning around 10:30am in the SoCal area? My home shook quite a lot!
lol earth quake, I felt it too
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post #12641 of 13425 Old 07-05-2019, 11:20 AM
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Guilty as charged...

I only looped Edge of Tomorrow - Intro and Interstellar - Black hole scene for 2 hours...
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Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
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post #12642 of 13425 Old 07-05-2019, 11:44 AM
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Anyone know the best spot to sit along the frequency wavelength to maximize chest punch? Not sure if what I'm asking is relevant or that I even really understand it but I want to know the best spot to sit from my 4000ULF to give the most chest punch. I heard 50Hz gives chest punch, so if a 50Hz wave is 22.6 feet long what distances are the best to sit and worst? (assuming the sub has to remain at a fixed point in front of the room)

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post #12643 of 13425 Old 07-05-2019, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by MinnesotaGreg View Post
Anyone know the best spot to sit along the frequency wavelength to maximize chest punch? Not sure if what I'm asking is relevant or that I even really understand it but I want to know the best spot to sit from my 4000ULF to give the most chest punch. I heard 50Hz gives chest punch, so if a 50Hz wave is 22.6 feet long what distances are the best to sit and worst? (assuming the sub has to remain at a fixed point in front of the room)

Hi Greg,

I don't think that's quite the way that chest punch works. To start with, different people feel chest punch at slightly different frequencies. The range from about 50Hz to 80Hz is most common, and there is some evidence that chest punch is strongest for most people in the low-60's. One older study I read several years ago put 63Hz as the average that it found, and some subwoofer makers have preset PEQ at 63Hz.

Second, chest punch, like SPL, seems to decline with distance. So, nearfield subwoofer placement is most likely to increase chest punch, rather than the wavelength distance. Chest punch is a tactile phenomenon, and not an audible one. It is caused by sudden, percussive sounds in about that 50 to 80Hz range, and the range is broader than that for some people. Those percussive sounds involve the physical movement of air particles, and not simply the movement of sound wavelengths through the air.

The air particles are displaced (by both the drivers, and the ports in a ported sub), causing a sympathetic reverberation in the air-filled chest cavity. In order to have that sympathetic reverberation, I believe that we need to have three things: sudden percussive content at about the right frequency (such as the strike of a kick drum or a gunshot); reasonable proximity to the transducers reproducing that content; and sufficient volume to feel the reverberation in our chests. Even then, some people seem much more susceptible to that sensation than others.

One individual may be able to feel the sensation with as little volume as ~80db, where someone else may need volumes well in excess of 100db, so this is something you will need to experiment with for yourself. But, to answer your question, I think that you will probably need to either have your Cap 4000 close to your listening position, or you will need very high volume levels, or both.

I hope this helps! Let me know what you discover.

Regards,
Mike

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post #12644 of 13425 Old 07-05-2019, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
So, nearfield subwoofer placement is most likely to increase chest punch, rather than the wavelength distance.
That has been my experience so far and I'm now trying to get that same feel but with the sub in its home location being in the front wall under the screen. With the Cap 4000 up on riser behind first row seats it causes serious chest/body punch, especially with a video game such as Battlefield 5 and non stop artillery and bombing. I want that same feel (reason for my original post) but with the sub in its home spot that looks best from a visual room layout. Obviously I built the room incorrectly but I didn't know at the time.

Thanks for your comments and explanation.
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post #12645 of 13425 Old 07-05-2019, 01:54 PM
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I'm going to paraphrase what Mike is saying...........put in John Wick and John Wick2, then crank up the MV to -5 and if you have a miniDSP boost a little in the 50-80 range. That should get you plenty of chest punch!

Or, and this is my serious suggestion , maybe consider buying another sub to put behind your MLP? Several people on here really like a VNF sub for this very purpose.

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post #12646 of 13425 Old 07-05-2019, 05:16 PM
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From JTR Speakers Facebook:

Cap 2400 XS... What a cutie!!!



15", 33mm X-max, 24" H, 18" W, 20" D, 10Hz tune, 2400W RMS, 3~4db less than captivator 2400 (+97dB 10Hz, 2m, RMS and +116 dB in the mid bass, 2m, RMS)... $2399? + Frt...

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 07-05-2019 at 06:46 PM.
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post #12647 of 13425 Old 07-05-2019, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ereed View Post
My dual custom funks are similar design (sofa table dimensions) and I have one behind me (used to have both nearfield) and now using the other one as center stand. Go for it!
Nice set-up

Look like room is open on the left side, if so no need to read further.
From the picture, your sub is dead on the center of the room. Having your MLP in the center, is the worst for spot for sub response by creating too many nulls
Therefore having the sub perfectly in the center, would recreate the same results.
That said if still reading, if your room is more open on the left side. All good, since it is no longer sitting in the center sub wise

Having both subs in front could remedy that, since you have some room to spare between your Mains.
Work great for me, in my present configuration (sitting around 1/3 and 2/3). But you would lose some TR.
Just some concern, from another AVS forum member


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post #12648 of 13425 Old 07-05-2019, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Cap 2400 XS... What a cutie!!!

End tables.
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post #12649 of 13425 Old 07-06-2019, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by darthray View Post
Nice set-up

Look like room is open on the left side, if so no need to read further.
From the picture, your sub is dead on the center of the room. Having your MLP in the center, is the worst for spot for sub response by creating too many nulls
Therefore having the sub perfectly in the center, would recreate the same results.
That said if still reading, if your room is more open on the left side. All good, since it is no longer sitting in the center sub wise

Having both subs in front could remedy that, since you have some room to spare between your Mains.
Work great for me, in my present configuration (sitting around 1/3 and 2/3). But you would lose some TR.
Just some concern, from another AVS forum member


Darth
My room is an open floor plan and is not sealed. The overall length from rear wall to screen is 18 feet but the width which opens to the kitchen and dining is 23 feet wide. I'm about 6.5 feet from rear wall and 7 feet from right side wall. Here are other pics to show rest of the room to get an idea.

Also having 1 nearfield and one sub on the left pony wall next to the surround was best response but wife isn't gonna let a sub fly being in middle of hallway. LOL Also I do have crowsons in the mix.
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post #12650 of 13425 Old 07-06-2019, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
From JTR Speakers Facebook:

Cap 2400 XS... What a cutie!!!



15", 33mm X-max, 24" H, 18" W, 20" D, 10Hz tune, 2400W RMS, 3~4db less than captivator 2400 (+97dB 10Hz, 2m, RMS and +116 dB in the mid bass, 2m, RMS)... $2399? + Frt...
Easy to predict (with this level of output quoted) that this Baby 2400 will be a big seller. Smaller footprint is one of the most sought after requirements from perspective buyers. Smart move on Jeff's end to address this directly. I bet going smaller for him was a journey into undiscovered territory. This Baby has some serious performance within 3-4 db of a full size 2400 is pretty impressive.

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post #12651 of 13425 Old 07-06-2019, 11:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
I just watched Cloverfield Paradox (2018)...
The Cap 4000ULF handled the LFE with ease.
chucky, somehow this statement seems redundant.
Thanks for the rec; coming from you I am sure it's spectacular.
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post #12652 of 13425 Old 07-06-2019, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ereed View Post
My room is an open floor plan and is not sealed. The overall length from rear wall to screen is 18 feet but the width which opens to the kitchen and dining is 23 feet wide. I'm about 6.5 feet from rear wall and 7 feet from right side wall. Here are other pics to show rest of the room to get an idea.

Also having 1 nearfield and one sub on the left pony wall next to the surround was best response but wife isn't gonna let a sub fly being in middle of hallway. LOL Also I do have crowsons in the mix.
Thanks for the extra pictures

I can see why you also need some crowsons, due to the size of the room.
I use some Buttkicker in mine, due to the concrete floor.


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post #12653 of 13425 Old 07-08-2019, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Adamg (Ret-Navy) View Post
Easy to predict (with this level of output quoted) that this Baby 2400 will be a big seller. Smaller footprint is one of the most sought after requirements from perspective buyers. Smart move on Jeff's end to address this directly. I bet going smaller for him was a journey into undiscovered territory. This Baby has some serious performance within 3-4 db of a full size 2400 is pretty impressive.
Looks great on paper, but is that port big enough to avoid a storm of chuffing??
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post #12654 of 13425 Old 07-08-2019, 12:48 PM
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Holy crap!!!

The Captivator 118HT is $1500 shipped within continental USA!!! While supplies last.
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Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

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post #12655 of 13425 Old 07-08-2019, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratbuddy View Post
Looks great on paper, but is that port big enough to avoid a storm of chuffing??
The size of the port is only one part of the equation. The tuning frequency is the other.

Therefore, if the 2400XS were tuned to "high teens" or low 20's, then yes. It would chuff louder than my snoring...
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Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #12656 of 13425 Old 07-08-2019, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
The size of the port is only one part of the equation. The tuning frequency is the other.

Therefore, if the 2400XS were tuned to "high teens" or low 20's, then yes. It would chuff louder than my snoring...
I don't know anything about setting port sizes, I just assumed the lower the tune, the more port area you needed in order to keep velocity down.
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post #12657 of 13425 Old 07-08-2019, 05:37 PM
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I don't know anything about setting port sizes, I just assumed the lower the tune, the more port area you needed in order to keep velocity down.
The port tune is a function of vent area, vent length and enclosure volume.

Given the enclosure volume of 5 cubit ft and a port tune of 10Hz, the vent length is limited by the dimensions. Then the vent area correlates to the vent length.

Therefore, holding the vent length constant, the lower the tune, the smaller the vent area.

AFAIK, without the T/S parameters, it's impossible to calculate the velocity.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
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post #12658 of 13425 Old 07-08-2019, 08:59 PM
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Holy crap!!!

The Captivator 118HT is $1500 shipped within continental USA!!! While supplies last.

DANG!



Still waiting on the 2400ULF clearance sale to add my second!
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post #12659 of 13425 Old 07-09-2019, 09:40 PM
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Holy crap!!!

The Captivator 118HT is $1500 shipped within continental USA!!! While supplies last.
Placed my order today!
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post #12660 of 13425 Old 07-09-2019, 11:59 PM
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Placed my order today!

Good choice, a good friend of mine has 2 of them and they sound fantastic and do a great job in his huge basement HT/bar area/game area.
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