Official JTR Speakers Subwoofer Thread - Page 426 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #12751 of 12967 Old 08-08-2019, 03:51 AM
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thanks chucky. Looks like i’ll just roll with the 118
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post #12752 of 12967 Old 08-08-2019, 06:29 AM
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thanks chucky. Looks like i’ll just roll with the 118
Unless you really need the extra small form factor, I would stick with what you have.

If you want 10Hz tuned subs, go with the 2400, which is the same size with what you have now. The 2400s are on sale now for $2000 + shipping.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
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post #12753 of 12967 Old 08-09-2019, 08:48 AM
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The preliminary CEA-2010 numbers for the new Captivator 2400XS and sealed subs Captivator RS1 and RS2 are out:



Compared with the original S2 and S1, the new RS models look to have similar top end, but a couple more dB bottom end.

According to Jeff, while the additional output down low is a nice benefit, the new drivers differ in having ultra low distortion. The RS1 and RS2 have true audiophile sound.
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Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 08-09-2019 at 10:50 PM.
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post #12754 of 12967 Old 08-10-2019, 12:39 PM
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I just watched Alita: Battle Angel. The movie was mixed hot and had bass in the right places. I would say it's on Interstellar level but mixed slightly hotter and extended 10Hz lower.

When the bass hits, I was afraid that my neighbors would call the police. Alas, that didn't happen.
Do you remember the major scene or scenes with the best bass?

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post #12755 of 12967 Old 08-10-2019, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
The preliminary CEA-2010 numbers for the new Captivator 2400XS and sealed subs Captivator RS1 and RS2 are out:

Compared with the original S2 and S1, the new RS models look to have similar top end, but a couple more dB bottom end.

According to Jeff, while the additional output down low is a nice benefit, the new drivers differ in having ultra low distortion. The RS1 and RS2 have true audiophile sound.

I have some audio gear up for sale that if it sells before the pre-order period is up I will test the new RS1 directly against the F18 Rythmik. Winner gets big room duty while the loser goes to the dreaded bedroom system



Just hoping that Jeff can do a piano gloss finish on them for a reasonable amount of money and doesn't charge a ton for shipping them.



Greg
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post #12756 of 12967 Old 08-10-2019, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by SOWK View Post
Do you remember the major scene or scenes with the best bass?


I also just watch this last night. It was fun and made the 2400s breathe nicely.

The movie had a lot of bass heavy scenes and I cannot pinpoint just one or two.
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post #12757 of 12967 Old 08-10-2019, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muscles View Post
I have some audio gear up for sale that if it sells before the pre-order period is up I will test the new RS1 directly against the F18 Rythmik. Winner gets big room duty while the loser goes to the dreaded bedroom system



Just hoping that Jeff can do a piano gloss finish on them for a reasonable amount of money and doesn't charge a ton for shipping them.



Greg


I believe that the high gloss automotive type finishes are $500. Shipping should be ~$200. I’d love to hear your comparison between the two.
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post #12758 of 12967 Old 08-10-2019, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post
Do you remember the major scene or scenes with the best bass?
I don't have the time stamp (who would for first time viewing of a movie? )... basically during the races, fights and whenever there is a giant robot...
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post #12759 of 12967 Old 08-10-2019, 07:05 PM
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I don't have the time stamp (who would for first time viewing of a movie? )... basically during the races, fights and whenever there is a giant robot...
Sounds good. I will take a listen. Thank you.
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post #12760 of 12967 Old 08-10-2019, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muscles View Post
I have some audio gear up for sale that if it sells before the pre-order period is up I will test the new RS1 directly against the F18 Rythmik. Winner gets big room duty while the loser goes to the dreaded bedroom system

Just hoping that Jeff can do a piano gloss finish on them for a reasonable amount of money and doesn't charge a ton for shipping them.

Greg
The piano gloss finish is not cheap. AFAIK, $500 for Cap 1400/118HT sized cabinets.

The shipping for S1 should be around $150.
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Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #12761 of 12967 Old 08-11-2019, 10:40 AM
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Sounds good. I will take a listen. Thank you.
Try 11 mins and 1Hr31min

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post #12762 of 12967 Old 08-12-2019, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muscles View Post
Just hoping that Jeff can do a piano gloss finish on them for a reasonable amount of money and doesn't charge a ton for shipping them.
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Originally Posted by BassMojo View Post
I believe that the high gloss automotive type finishes are $500. Shipping should be ~$200. I’d love to hear your comparison between the two.
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
The piano gloss finish is not cheap. AFAIK, $500 for Cap 1400/118HT sized cabinets.

The shipping for S1 should be around $150.
Which for anyone that has tried to do a piano gloss finish, $500 for the man hours involved is an absolute steal. It is by far the hardest to achieve and takes a very skilled workman to accomplish with no blemishes or inconsistencies in the finish. Aside from that $150 for shipping is also a pretty good deal for a ~200lbs sub.
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post #12763 of 12967 Old 08-12-2019, 08:40 AM
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Which for anyone that has tried to do a piano gloss finish, $500 for the man hours involved is an absolute steal. It is by far the hardest to achieve and takes a very skilled workman to accomplish with no blemishes or inconsistencies in the finish. Aside from that $150 for shipping is also a pretty good deal for a ~200lbs sub.
Piano lacquer finish is extremely labor intensive. This is why the companies offering this finish with little upcharge have the cabinets made in China.

The $150 shipping is for the RS1, a 118lb sub.

The freight quote to SoCal that Jeff gave me last year was:
$400 for the 265lb 4000ULF,
$250 for the 165lb 2400ULF,
$180 for the 142lb 2400,
$151 for the 129lb 118HT,
$300 for the 220lb S2,
$150 for the 118lb S1.

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post #12764 of 12967 Old 08-12-2019, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Piano lacquer finish is extremely labor intensive. This is why the companies offering this finish with little upcharge have the cabinets made in China.

The $150 shipping is for the RS1, a 118lb sub.

The freight quote to SoCal that Jeff gave me last year was:
$400 for the 265lb 4000ULF,
$250 for the 165lb 2400ULF,
$180 for the 142lb 2400,
$151 for the 129lb 118HT,
$300 for the 220lb S2,
$150 for the 118lb S1.


You were right on all fronts. I got an email back from JTR and the piano gloss is $500 per sub


Shipping is $150 per sub, so $300 total. Not sure if it is worth it, I would be gaining about 3db output more than what I have currently but I have to wonder if they will be able to compete sound quality wise against the venerable Rythmik Servo F18's. The one thing that does interest me is that they are 4" shallower, 18" deep rather than 21-23" deep. That could open up the sides of my ESL speakers a bit more.



Greg
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post #12765 of 12967 Old 08-13-2019, 08:57 PM
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I'm considering switching to the dark side 😁

Wondering if dual 118HT's will be enough for 5500cf basement theater. It's 100% movies, usually -10 from Audyssey calibrated reference and subs +4db hot.

Ross

_______________________________________________
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SOURCE: Oppo BDP-103D multi-region
SPEAKERS: Chane A5.4, A1.4, Rythmik L22 x 4
DISPLAY: Sony 45ES, 175" Silver Ticket screen

Last edited by rossandwendy; 08-13-2019 at 09:01 PM.
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post #12766 of 12967 Old 08-13-2019, 09:46 PM
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I'm considering switching to the dark side 😁

Wondering if dual 118HT's will be enough for 5500cf basement theater. It's 100% movies, usually -10 from Audyssey calibrated reference and subs +4db hot.

Ross
One thing I’ve learnt on this forum is that “enough” is very relative!
However, what I can tell you is that I have dual 118ht’s in a open space that is 11,000cf and when I play movies loud(-6db), the whole house shakes like there is an earthquake. Once, my kids were watching the latest dragon training movie, while I was in my room doing some work. During a couple of scenes, I could hear at least a few dozen things(like screws inside dry wall, stuff in closets) rattling like there was a very real earthquake.
Another thing I enjoy is the “physical” feedback that I get from the subs during certain scenes. It’s like something is moving you( and I’m on concrete floors).

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post #12767 of 12967 Old 08-13-2019, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rossandwendy View Post
I'm considering switching to the dark side 😁


Quote:
Wondering if dual 118HT's will be enough for 5500cf basement theater. It's 100% movies, usually -10 from Audyssey calibrated reference and subs +4db hot.

Ross
You may have missed the bus... Still, please contact Jeff and see if the 118HTs are still available at $1,500 shipped.

The 2019 Cap 118HT is +2dB from the DB tested 2017 Cap 118HTs.

The Rythmik L22 was never tested by DB. However, the F18 was. The L22 was -3.5dB from the F18 @ 20Hz. Therefore, I just used F18 - 3.5dB across.

Output Comparison between what you have (4 Rythmik L22s) and dual Cap 118HTs:



At 16~20Hz, you are getting double the output. +2 dB @ 32~40Hz, and +3dB @ 25Hz, and > 50Hz.

Will it be enough? Hell yeah! However, I believe the biggest difference is in TR. Going from sealed to ported is huge. Going from Rythmik ported to JTR ported is also huge. Did I mention the famous JTR port wind?

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #12768 of 12967 Old 08-13-2019, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tojo_m View Post
One thing I’ve learnt on this forum is that “enough” is very relative!
However, what I can tell you is that I have dual 118ht’s in a open space that is 11,000cf and when I play movies loud(-6db), the whole house shakes like there is an earthquake. Once, my kids were watching the latest dragon training movie, while I was in my room doing some work. During a couple of scenes, I could hear at least a few dozen things(like screws inside dry wall, stuff in closets) rattling like there was a very real earthquake.
Another thing I enjoy is the “physical” feedback that I get from the subs during certain scenes. It’s like something is moving you( and I’m on concrete floors).
Thanks for your reply, that is a great testimonial! The 118's sound like a lot of fun 😎

Ross
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DISPLAY: Sony 45ES, 175" Silver Ticket screen
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post #12769 of 12967 Old 08-13-2019, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post


You may have missed the bus... Still, please contact Jeff and see if the 118HTs are still available at $1,500 shipped.

The 2019 Cap 118HT is +2dB from the DB tested 2017 Cap 118HTs.

The Rythmik L22 was never tested by DB. However, the F18 was. The L22 was -3.5dB from the F18 @ 20Hz. Therefore, I just used F18 - 3.5dB across.

Output Comparison between what you have (4 Rythmik L22s) and dual Cap 118HTs:



At 16~20Hz, you are getting double the output. +2 dB @ 32~40Hz, and +3dB @ 25Hz, and > 50Hz.

Will it be enough? Hell yeah! However, I believe the biggest difference is in TR. Going from sealed to ported is huge. Going from Rythmik ported to JTR ported is also huge. Did I mention the famous JTR port wind?
LOL, great graphic 😁

For the last ten years I've had sealed subs, first a Submersive and then Rythmik. Before that I had various ported subs including dual early version PB13 Ultras on a suspended wood floor in a smaller room. Now that I am in a large basement on concrete I realize it might be time to get back into ported and something as powerful as I can afford. Thanks for doing that chart. I did email Jeff tonight.

Ross
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_______________________________________________
POWER: Emotiva A-300, Denon AVR-X3300W
SOURCE: Oppo BDP-103D multi-region
SPEAKERS: Chane A5.4, A1.4, Rythmik L22 x 4
DISPLAY: Sony 45ES, 175" Silver Ticket screen

Last edited by rossandwendy; 08-13-2019 at 11:21 PM.
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post #12770 of 12967 Old 08-14-2019, 08:50 AM
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LOL, great graphic 😁

For the last ten years I've had sealed subs, first a Submersive and then Rythmik. Before that I had various ported subs including dual early version PB13 Ultras on a suspended wood floor in a smaller room. Now that I am in a large basement on concrete I realize it might be time to get back into ported and something as powerful as I can afford. Thanks for doing that chart. I did email Jeff tonight.

Ross
If you are on a concrete floor, I highly recommend ported subs. My dedicated theater is on concrete and I historically always had ported subs. To try something new a couple years back, I bought two Seaton Submersives F2's. I hooked them up - put them in the same place as my previous ported subs - and my bass was gone!! I didn't realize how big a difference the port makes on a concrete floor.

I now have dual JTR Cap 1400's and have more bass than I can take at times. Literal night and day difference vs. the sealed F2's.

Just my $.02
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post #12771 of 12967 Old 08-14-2019, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tojo_m View Post
One thing I’ve learnt on this forum is that “enough” is very relative!
However, what I can tell you is that I have dual 118ht’s in a open space that is 11,000cf and when I play movies loud(-6db), the whole house shakes like there is an earthquake. Once, my kids were watching the latest dragon training movie, while I was in my room doing some work. During a couple of scenes, I could hear at least a few dozen things(like screws inside dry wall, stuff in closets) rattling like there was a very real earthquake.
Another thing I enjoy is the “physical” feedback that I get from the subs during certain scenes. It’s like something is moving you( and I’m on concrete floors).
I also have dual 118HTs on a concrete floor, but my basement is a little over 4500cf. I mostly listen to music, but when we watch movies we don't listen very loud (~ -25db) because the subs will give my wife a headache if we go louder. But even at that level, the subs rock the room.

Like you say, what is enough is very relative. I often wonder how other subs would sound in my room, but then the 118HTs give me everything I want, so I'm very happy with them.

Jack
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post #12772 of 12967 Old 08-14-2019, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bambam View Post
If you are on a concrete floor, I highly recommend ported subs. My dedicated theater is on concrete and I historically always had ported subs. To try something new a couple years back, I bought two Seaton Submersives F2's. I hooked them up - put them in the same place as my previous ported subs - and my bass was gone!! I didn't realize how big a difference the port makes on a concrete floor.

I now have dual JTR Cap 1400's and have more bass than I can take at times. Literal night and day difference vs. the sealed F2's.

Just my $.02
That's a good word, thank you! I still have a Seaton F2 boxed up that I need to sell to help fund the new ported duals. Before that I had the original design Submersive. I loved the sound in my smaller sealed rooms, but definitely I am seeing now that in the large basement room on concrete I am missing the visceral experience on action movies.

Ross
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_______________________________________________
POWER: Emotiva A-300, Denon AVR-X3300W
SOURCE: Oppo BDP-103D multi-region
SPEAKERS: Chane A5.4, A1.4, Rythmik L22 x 4
DISPLAY: Sony 45ES, 175" Silver Ticket screen
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post #12773 of 12967 Old 08-14-2019, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post


You may have missed the bus... Still, please contact Jeff and see if the 118HTs are still available at $1,500 shipped.

The 2019 Cap 118HT is +2dB from the DB tested 2017 Cap 118HTs.

The Rythmik L22 was never tested by DB. However, the F18 was. The L22 was -3.5dB from the F18 @ 20Hz. Therefore, I just used F18 - 3.5dB across.

Output Comparison between what you have (4 Rythmik L22s) and dual Cap 118HTs:



At 16~20Hz, you are getting double the output. +2 dB @ 32~40Hz, and +3dB @ 25Hz, and > 50Hz.

Will it be enough? Hell yeah! However, I believe the biggest difference is in TR. Going from sealed to ported is huge. Going from Rythmik ported to JTR ported is also huge. Did I mention the famous JTR port wind?
Chucky,

Major "Bravo Zulu" for always being on point and swiftly offering spot on advice, graphs, plots, and Model Comparisons that new Visitors need to make educated decisions. You Sir are indeed an inestimable Member of the JTR Hit Squad. Thanks for keeping the Thread fun and informative.

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post #12774 of 12967 Old 08-14-2019, 11:14 AM
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Does JTR use the same 18" driver in all of its models? I know the 118HT is a paper driver, but what about the others? I have noticed that in some pictures there appears to be a carbon fiber dust cover while in others it is plain matte black?? Is there a difference in the sealed 18" subs vs the ported, if so, what is it?




Also, lets get some pictures of peoples subwoofers up! There simply isn't enough pictures of JTR subwoofers out there!


Greg
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Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik F18SEs - SB13 Ultra
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post #12775 of 12967 Old 08-14-2019, 11:20 AM
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Speakers: KEF Q100 / Q300 / Q750 / Q650C, Fluance Signature Series Bookshelf / SX6 / XL5F, Mirage M-190 Subwoofers: Outlaw Ultra X12 (x2), BIC H100-II Receiver: Denon AVR-X4500H, Denon AVR-X1400H Integrated Amplifier: Yamaha A-S501, Fosi Audio TPA3116 mini amp Extras: MiniDSP Umik-1 Headphones: Philips SPH9500s, Audio Tech. ATH-M40x, Takstar Pro 82.
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post #12776 of 12967 Old 08-14-2019, 11:30 AM
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Wondering if something was wrong with his 2400XS as I have yet to experience anything like that with my JTR subs. But I dont have that sub in the review, so I cant for 100% say its not true.

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post #12777 of 12967 Old 08-14-2019, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post
Wondering if something was wrong with his 2400XS as I have yet to experience anything like that with my JTR subs. But I dont have that sub in the review, so I cant for 100% say its not true.
that front port does seem really small for a sub that can move a lot of air.
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Speakers: KEF Q100 / Q300 / Q750 / Q650C, Fluance Signature Series Bookshelf / SX6 / XL5F, Mirage M-190 Subwoofers: Outlaw Ultra X12 (x2), BIC H100-II Receiver: Denon AVR-X4500H, Denon AVR-X1400H Integrated Amplifier: Yamaha A-S501, Fosi Audio TPA3116 mini amp Extras: MiniDSP Umik-1 Headphones: Philips SPH9500s, Audio Tech. ATH-M40x, Takstar Pro 82.
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post #12778 of 12967 Old 08-14-2019, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macgallant View Post
that front port does seem really small for a sub that can move a lot of air.
The sub is tuned to 10Hz. Therefore, for the vast majority of the content, the driver is doing the heavy lifting. The air velocity is also lower for a lower tuned port.



Now, I watched the movie in 4K at home. Avenger Endgame doesn't even go that low (a 30Hz movie extending to 16Hz) or hot. Hot 30Hz bass won't make a 10Hz tuned sub chuff. In fact, I have never heard anyone said Interstellar or San Andreas would make his sub chuff. Therefore, what youthman heard shouldn't be chuffing. It's too bad he did not show the 2400XS producing noise in action.
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Last edited by chucky7; 08-14-2019 at 12:44 PM.
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post #12779 of 12967 Old 08-14-2019, 01:16 PM
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^^^^I have never experienced “Chuffing” or any hint of distortion or hitting a limit. The Dual Dragon Sisters have run me right out of my own room when a particular scene hits and I can’t grab the remote quick enough!!! And I do mean run out of the room. Sensations of fear associated with the fight or flight instinct. The mere mention of “interstellar” brings flashes of panic and spilled liquids. Did I mention guests that never return!

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post #12780 of 12967 Old 08-14-2019, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post
Wondering if something was wrong with his 2400XS as I have yet to experience anything like that with my JTR subs. But I dont have that sub in the review, so I cant for 100% say its not true.
This is why I don't watch any of his videos. It's nothing against the guy, at least he has a passion for the hobby, but if he had a deeper knowledge of the hobby he would've been able to explain the actual cause. Going by his description it literally could have been his room reacting to a deeper frequency that only the JTR could throw out with enough output to trigger a resonance in his room, and due to a lack of actual testing, the subwoofer may have taken the hit and gotten bad publicity for it.

I'm not saying that's for sure the cause. It could've just been port noise. We can't tell when a review is just a guy talking about "what I heard" with absolutely nothing else backing up his opinion but a quarter second clip of the driver's excursion with no audio to it.
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