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post #13171 of 13213 Old 09-05-2019, 07:11 AM
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^^^
Maybe @DennisPagoulatos can comment? He has one 4000 and recently heard my two 4000s.
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post #13172 of 13213 Old 09-05-2019, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassMojo View Post
^^^
Maybe @DennisPagoulatos can comment? He has one 4000 and recently heard my two 4000s.
My space is larger than @BassMojo , so my single Cap 4000 has a lot more volume to fill. That said, a single Cap 4000 has no issue pressurizing my space and overwhelming me at the listening position if I choose to push the volume.
After hanging out for a few hours, Brian and I quickly realized that our listening habits are pretty similar; we are not 135dB guys by any means. While demoing John Wick 2, he briefly pushed the volume a bit higher for a demo scene (I think the peaks were 108dB) and we were both thinking...yeah let's turn it down a smidge.
My point is that a single Cap 4000 is probably more than enough for most people, in most rooms- even big open spaces. It's worth noting that my room is over wood framing (crawl space) so maybe if you're on concrete slab it would make a difference.
The biggest advantage to 2 subs isn't so much for max volume levels, it's really to smooth out frequency response at the listening positions, so 2 subs is certainly desirable if you have the space and commit to best placement.

Unfortunately for my wallet, I'm a HUGE fan of symmetry, so I definitely would consider adding a second Cap 4000, but it wouldn't be because 1 is lacking in any way.
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post #13173 of 13213 Old 09-05-2019, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassMojo View Post
^^^
Maybe @DennisPagoulatos can comment? He has one 4000 and recently heard my two 4000s.
Sent you PM.
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post #13174 of 13213 Old 09-08-2019, 12:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DennisPagoulatos View Post
My space is larger than @BassMojo , so my single Cap 4000 has a lot more volume to fill. That said, a single Cap 4000 has no issue pressurizing my space and overwhelming me at the listening position if I choose to push the volume.
After hanging out for a few hours, Brian and I quickly realized that our listening habits are pretty similar; we are not 135dB guys by any means. While demoing John Wick 2, he briefly pushed the volume a bit higher for a demo scene (I think the peaks were 108dB) and we were both thinking...yeah let's turn it down a smidge.
My point is that a single Cap 4000 is probably more than enough for most people, in most rooms- even big open spaces. It's worth noting that my room is over wood framing (crawl space) so maybe if you're on concrete slab it would make a difference.
The biggest advantage to 2 subs isn't so much for max volume levels, it's really to smooth out frequency response at the listening positions, so 2 subs is certainly desirable if you have the space and commit to best placement.

Unfortunately for my wallet, I'm a HUGE fan of symmetry, so I definitely would consider adding a second Cap 4000, but it wouldn't be because 1 is lacking in any way.


LOL. This is the kind of things that would get one in "trouble," in nearly every other hobbies not just audio.

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post #13175 of 13213 Old 09-08-2019, 05:56 PM
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LOL. This is the kind of things that would get one in "trouble," in nearly every other hobbies not just audio.


I use this excuse to convince myself to do things I shouldn’t all the time.

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post #13176 of 13213 Old 09-08-2019, 08:05 PM
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I have a pair of 118HT. I leave the power switch on auto. I presume green light means standby & red light means on. I ask because sometimes one sub is green and one is red when nothing is playing. What is the correct light indications? How long after the audio stops does it go to standby. On my old Polk it was 10 minutes. Thanks.

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post #13177 of 13213 Old 09-09-2019, 04:54 AM
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Originally Posted by BIC2 View Post
I have a pair of 118HT. I leave the power switch on auto. I presume green light means standby & red light means on. I ask because sometimes one sub is green and one is red when nothing is playing. What is the correct light indications? How long after the audio stops does it go to standby. On my old Polk it was 10 minutes. Thanks.


It should be the other way around. Red is off or standby and green is on.


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post #13178 of 13213 Old 09-09-2019, 06:29 AM
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Yes, that checks out this morning after sitting overnight in Auto. Guess it takes a long time in Auto after the signal stops to switch from Red to Green. Thanks.

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post #13179 of 13213 Old 09-09-2019, 10:35 AM
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Official JTR Speakers Subwoofer Thread

The ULTIMATE SEALED JTR SUBWOOFER THEATER?? ... 7 JTR 18” woofers!!

Thanks for continuing to improve your products Jeff! Look forward to more output at lower distortion than my existing Seaton Submersives.

Just confirmed my order with Jeff for two of the new RS2 subs!

I will have the following subs after the RS2 arrive:

Front center under screen: JTR S2
Left side wall: JTR RS2
Right side wall: JTR RS2
Rear center: JTR S1

I need to sell my amazing Seaton Submersives now.


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Subs: JTR Captivator subs: One S2, Two RS2, One S1, 2 Seaton Submersive (FOR SALE)
Screen: 2.40:1 Seymour XD Acoustically Transparent, 128" diagonal / 118" wide || Projector: JVC X570/RS420

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post #13180 of 13213 Old 09-09-2019, 11:27 AM
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^^ Very nice. The room from your Avatar doesn't look that big, how big is it? I know where the next Houston GTG will be
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post #13181 of 13213 Old 09-09-2019, 11:32 AM
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^^ Very nice. The room from your Avatar doesn't look that big, how big is it? I know where the next Houston GTG will be


It’s not that big. 14’x24’x9’

For me it’s about low distortion, ultra clean bass (and the ability to produce the lowest frequencies). With more drivers I don’t have to push them as hard. And the Seatons can’t go as low as the JTR so I am hoping for cleaner reproduction below 20Hz and lower distortion and output 50-70Hz.

I will post on the forum as I install and set them up along with listening impressions for my favorite bass scenes ranging from ultra low frequency to gun shots.


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post #13182 of 13213 Old 09-09-2019, 06:36 PM
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So I did some videos...

Oldie but goodie... War of the Worlds. A must-have for any serious basshead.

Lightning Strike:

Pods Emerge:

Bridge Collapse:

Plane Crash:

IIRC, the bridge collapse clip is the loudest. The lightning Strike clip digs the deepest. The bridge collapse clip is the most demanding for subs. The pods emerge clip however, is the most famous.
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post #13183 of 13213 Old 09-10-2019, 03:30 PM
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Update on my order of two new RS2!!

Okay guys my order is placed for the two RS2 subs (new version of the S2 with lower distortion and a bit more output at some frequencies)....

Since these two JTR will be visible in my theater, unlike my other two JTR, I will need to have the speaker grill on. In the past and under high output my woofers hit the speaker grill and made a clacking sound on my S2 due to the grill lifting off a bit and popping back into place. But this was literally the first S2 from the 2017 redesign and I think Jeff retuned the amp shortly after that so maybe that could have caused it? Jeff questioned this a bit so it sounds like he was surprised to hear this but not sure what else it could have been (this was about two - three years ago when I was putting my theater back together after a remodel and had the S2 pulled out from under the front screen baffle wall.. I think I remember actually seeing the woofer move the grill but I can't be certain).

I have asked Jeff to design a grill with more clearance so we can ensure that this does not occur and he has obliged my request. Jeff is also going to locate one of the amps behind the left woofer and then on the other RS2 the amp will be located behind the right woofer. This will help in hiding wires due to the fact that one will be on the left wall and one will be on the right wall.

I can put two more RS1 under my screen but not sure I will need to after having an S2 and S1 and two RS2

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post #13184 of 13213 Old 09-10-2019, 04:04 PM
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Question about orientation of subs

I don't want to call or email Jeff again today so I am posing this question to you guys. I currently have my Seaton Subversives on the side walls with the woofer sort of facing the seating and facing the rear wall/front wall.

The RS2 will have to be positioned so that the woofer faces the sides walls and symmetrically faces each other (one on each side wall). At frequencies above 70 or 80 Hz would this cause a different sound signature vs orienting the direction my current Seaton are facing?

I know it would not affect low frequencies below 70/80Hz but what about frequencies 80-110 Hz? I have my Atmos crossed at 110Hz and my LCR at 80...I feel like it will produce a different sound vs the current Seaton's due to pointing 90 from the Seatons ... I guess this can be EQed using my DSP and Audyssey..

My other option is to buy two RS1 and keep the Seatons so that I can orient the RS1 either facing the back wall or facing the opposing side wall. Thoughts??

7.4.6 system: Processors:Marantz 8805 || Xilica XP4080 Amps: Parasound A31 and ATI AT528NC & AT526NC n-core ||Speakers: Procella P8 LCR, Procella P5 for surround & ceiling
Subs: JTR Captivator subs: One S2, Two RS2, One S1, 2 Seaton Submersive (FOR SALE)
Screen: 2.40:1 Seymour XD Acoustically Transparent, 128" diagonal / 118" wide || Projector: JVC X570/RS420
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post #13185 of 13213 Old 09-10-2019, 11:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by farsider3000 View Post
I don't want to call or email Jeff again today so I am posing this question to you guys. I currently have my Seaton Subversives on the side walls with the woofer sort of facing the seating and facing the rear wall/front wall.

The RS2 will have to be positioned so that the woofer faces the sides walls and symmetrically faces each other (one on each side wall). At frequencies above 70 or 80 Hz would this cause a different sound signature vs orienting the direction my current Seaton are facing?

I know it would not affect low frequencies below 70/80Hz but what about frequencies 80-110 Hz? I have my Atmos crossed at 110Hz and my LCR at 80...I feel like it will produce a different sound vs the current Seaton's due to pointing 90 from the Seatons ... I guess this can be EQed using my DSP and Audyssey..

My other option is to buy two RS1 and keep the Seatons so that I can orient the RS1 either facing the back wall or facing the opposing side wall. Thoughts??
Really the only way to judge is to test the change by listening with subwoofers in actual location. That said some speculations based on my own experience (if I understand you correctly):

1. I don't think *some* change in the direction the subwoofer is facing, while keeping it in same location in the room (versus literally move the new subwoofer to a different location) will cause change in sound significantly. Why I think this way: change in direction that the subwoofer is facing causes less change in room modes (probably the most significant of room interaction), than change in location. I have rotated my own subwoofer(s) and in general cannot tell a difference.

2. Seatons are great subwoofers, but this deep into the JTR game (and what an amazing subwoofer system you have!), my vote is to part way and make system all JTR, all deep Xmax . It's the "symmetry" thing someone mentioned earlier LOL.
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post #13186 of 13213 Old 09-10-2019, 11:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
So I did some videos...

Oldie but goodie... War of the Worlds. A must-have for any serious basshead.
....
IIRC, the bridge collapse clip is the loudest. The lightning Strike clip digs the deepest. The bridge collapse clip is the most demanding for subs. The pods emerge clip however, is the most famous.
And after all these years still overall the number one demo movie in my book.
Agreed - pod emerging is most famous, but the bridge/freeway collapse (which your posting had brought to my attention) is equally spectacular, if anything even MORE cataclysmic. Hard to imagine movie sound could take on such a violent, end-of-the-world character.

This is the movie that JTR subwoofs are made for :-).
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post #13187 of 13213 Old 09-11-2019, 10:15 AM
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And after all these years still overall the number one demo movie in my book.
Agreed - pod emerging is most famous, but the bridge/freeway collapse (which your posting had brought to my attention) is equally spectacular, if anything even MORE cataclysmic. Hard to imagine movie sound could take on such a violent, end-of-the-world character.

This is the movie that JTR subwoofs are made for :-).
Hi cannga,

I couldn't agree more with your assessment. As I was digging around my collection to find this Title to put in the que. I was wondering if a UHD version with Atmos and maybe HRD was released? So I started searching online. I discovered that Paramount intends to release a UHD 4K Version sometime in 2019. If this source is correct. https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=312804

I just hope they don't neuter the Bass content. This Movie in ATMOS could be Epic!!!
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post #13188 of 13213 Old 09-11-2019, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Adamg (Ret-Navy) View Post
Hi cannga,

I couldn't agree more with your assessment. As I was digging around my collection to find this Title to put in the que. I was wondering if a UHD version with Atmos and maybe HRD was released? So I started searching online. I discovered that Paramount intends to release a UHD 4K Version sometime in 2019. If this source is correct. https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=312804

I just hope they don't neuter the Bass content. This Movie in ATMOS could be Epic!!!
I hope they would also scrub some of the (Director intended....but WHY) grain in the pic as well if they are going to go full 4k with it...The grain is the reason that scene has always been a closing demo for me as opposed to an opening demo. The video quality part of the aspect is pretty bad IMO. The most work would need to be done there.
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post #13189 of 13213 Old 09-11-2019, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Adamg (Ret-Navy) View Post
Hi cannga,

I couldn't agree more with your assessment. As I was digging around my collection to find this Title to put in the que. I was wondering if a UHD version with Atmos and maybe HRD was released? So I started searching online. I discovered that Paramount intends to release a UHD 4K Version sometime in 2019. If this source is correct. https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=312804

I just hope they don't neuter the Bass content.
This Movie in ATMOS could be Epic!!!
That's precisely why BEQ was founded.
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post #13190 of 13213 Old 09-11-2019, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cannga View Post
1. I don't think *some* change in the direction the subwoofer is facing, while keeping it in same location in the room (versus literally move the new subwoofer to a different location) will cause change in sound significantly. Why I think this way: change in direction that the subwoofer is facing causes less change in room modes (probably the most significant of room interaction), than change in location. I have rotated my own subwoofer(s) and in general cannot tell a difference.
I did some testing when I first set up my Cap 1400s, moved them to various spots around the front wall, and finally settled on a spot about 33% of the way in from each side wall. After taking an REW measurement, I rotated both subs 45 degrees to the side walls. The change was significant. O don't know I it was the actual angle, or that the speaker was closer to the wall, but there was a much bigger difference than I would have imagined.

It all goes to show that the more you move around and play with orientation, the more likely you are to find a good series of locations. (Or drive yourself mad continually seeking the best possible combination of locations.)

Scott
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post #13191 of 13213 Old 09-11-2019, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by srw1000 View Post
I did some testing when I first set up my Cap 1400s, moved them to various spots around the front wall, and finally settled on a spot about 33% of the way in from each side wall. After taking an REW measurement, I rotated both subs 45 degrees to the side walls. The change was significant. O don't know I it was the actual angle, or that the speaker was closer to the wall, but there was a much bigger difference than I would have imagined.

It all goes to show that the more you move around and play with orientation, the more likely you are to find a good series of locations. (Or drive yourself mad continually seeking the best possible combination of locations.)

Scott
That is because you moved the acoustic center of the subwoofer, which is the dead center of the dust cap. Sometimes, even a few inches can make a huge difference.
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post #13192 of 13213 Old 09-12-2019, 06:28 AM
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Until you move to a different seat. Then you start all over again. This is why multiple subs are important for more than one seat. I know according to all the papers and research the best locations are front and back, sides, etc., but my responses were always bad from the back as the seats always were in the way of a smooth response. I always preferred the front wave of bass. When setup right, you can't tell where it is coming from, it seems the room is a just a bass resonator.

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post #13193 of 13213 Old 09-12-2019, 07:30 AM
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^^^

I think that there are a lot of variables in play in a discussion like this. I interpreted the OP's original question as more of a question about whether the fundamental sound signature of a sub is affected by its orientation. And, he even specified that he was asking about frequencies above about 70 or 80Hz. Since bass frequencies below at least the transition (Schroeder) frequency in a room (~120Hz to ~ 250Hz in most rooms) and perhaps below about 400Hz, in general, radiate omnidirectionally, the direction that a woofer points won't affect the sound signature of the subwoofer.

But, as Chucky points out, changing the orientation of the driver can, at times, change the frequency response, because the acoustic center of the subwoofer has changed. A change in frequency response may be negative or positive, and especially if it's negative, the change may be audible. But, even if the frequency response changes slightly, in an audible way, that may or may not translate into a distinct change in overall sound quality. That's a lot of ifs.

I think that the bottom line is that there is no inherently right or wrong way to point a subwoofer, strictly from the standpoint of sound quality or frequency response. There is only experimentation to determine whether a different orientation results in either changes in frequency response, or changes in sound quality, or both.

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post #13194 of 13213 Old 09-14-2019, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by tbass2k View Post
I didn't see a JTR setup at Cedia, I'm sure they'll be at Axpona next year.

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Yeah - I’m wasn’t too clear on the separation of components of shows or the specifics. I know Jeff rocks the house at Axpona each year.

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post #13195 of 13213 Old 09-14-2019, 01:07 PM
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Yeah - I’m wasn’t too clear on the separation of components of shows or the specifics. I know Jeff rocks the house at Axpona each year.
CEDIA is consumer electronics show. The participants are major players such as the Samsungs, the Sonys, the Apples showing the latest trends...

Axpona is a high end audio show. I believe the proximity to JTR is one reason Jeff participates every year.

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post #13196 of 13213 Old 09-14-2019, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
CEDIA is consumer electronics show. The participants are major players such as the Samsungs, the Sonys, the Apples showing the latest trends...

Axpona is a high end audio show. I believe the proximity to JTR is one reason Jeff participates every year.


Kinda figured. We do the same, proximity matters....unless the show is biiiiiiiig.
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post #13197 of 13213 Old 09-16-2019, 01:57 PM
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Axpona is a high end audio show. I believe the proximity to JTR is one reason Jeff participates every year.
Speaking of AXPONA, Jeff and I were discussing it last week. I share in the room costs and bring most of the equipment except the speakers and screen.

We were discussing the screen size and speaker layout. Typically we have had a large screen with LCR behind the screen or the L/R fairly wide. This also means having a large PJ like the JVC RS4500 I brought last year. For next year we discussed having a smaller screen with a more main stream PJ. This means the L/R speakers will be outside the screen. Two channel guys seem to do better when they can see the speaker. They also always seem to sit in the front row for critical listening even thought the angles on the second row are ideal. Since the JVC DLA-NX7 is my hottest selling PJ, I may bring that with a Panamorph Paladin DCR lens. Any comments or suggestions regarding AXPONA are welcome.

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post #13198 of 13213 Old 09-16-2019, 02:02 PM
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That sounds like an awesome video set up! Maybe add the Lumagen to take it to the best it can get. I don’t want to derail the thread can you pm your thoughts on the Paladin Dcr?

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post #13199 of 13213 Old 09-16-2019, 02:32 PM
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Official JTR Speakers Subwoofer Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post
Speaking of AXPONA, Jeff and I were discussing it last week. I share in the room costs and bring most of the equipment except the speakers and screen.



We were discussing the screen size and speaker layout. Typically we have had a large screen with LCR behind the screen or the L/R fairly wide. This also means having a large PJ like the JVC RS4500 I brought last year. For next year we discussed having a smaller screen with a more main stream PJ. This means the L/R speakers will be outside the screen. Two channel guys seem to do better when they can see the speaker. They also always seem to sit in the front row for critical listening even thought the angles on the second row are ideal. Since the JVC DLA-NX7 is my hottest selling PJ, I may bring that with a Panamorph Paladin DCR lens. Any comments or suggestions regarding AXPONA are welcome.


That’s the exact setup I’m rolling now, an N7 with the DCR lens. JVC drops a new firmware in October that will add Dynamic Tone Mapping - should look amazing.

What speakers will you use for the mains? 215RTs?
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post #13200 of 13213 Old 09-17-2019, 04:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post
Speaking of AXPONA, Jeff and I were discussing it last week. I share in the room costs and bring most of the equipment except the speakers and screen.

We were discussing the screen size and speaker layout. Typically we have had a large screen with LCR behind the screen or the L/R fairly wide. This also means having a large PJ like the JVC RS4500 I brought last year. For next year we discussed having a smaller screen with a more main stream PJ. This means the L/R speakers will be outside the screen. Two channel guys seem to do better when they can see the speaker. They also always seem to sit in the front row for critical listening even thought the angles on the second row are ideal. Since the JVC DLA-NX7 is my hottest selling PJ, I may bring that with a Panamorph Paladin DCR lens. Any comments or suggestions regarding AXPONA are welcome.
Ok- since I just bought an NX7 from you...great choice...on the speaker and subwoofer side- 7 215RM's running both full range (LFE) and running small with 2 ULF 4000's for sound (or 2 S2's sealed). Be able to toggle back and forth...that's my vote, LOL...
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