Official JTR Speakers Subwoofer Thread - Page 448 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #13411 of 13859 Old 10-14-2019, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Just saw this on JTR Facebook:



Big thumbs up!
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post #13412 of 13859 Old 10-15-2019, 08:27 PM
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Plan to hook up the second RS2 this week. I removed the previous filters set for the Seatons and the RS2 is starting to sound “tighter”. I will need to measure with REW to understand what filters I need for the RS2 but balancing four JTR subs is not an easy task. I have gobs of power and I can’t imagine having two of the 4000.

I think the bass signature will be a bit thicker with the new JTR but with Audyssey I can tighten it up even more.

In order to tame these monsters I will likely have Adam Pelz calibrate.


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7.4.6 system: Processors:Marantz 8805 || Xilica XP4080 Amps: Parasound A31 and ATI AT528NC & AT526NC n-core ||Speakers: Procella P8 LCR, Procella P5/P5 in-wall
Subs: JTR Captivator subs: One S2, Two RS2, One S1
Screen: 2.40:1 Seymour XD Acoustically Transparent, 128" diagonal / 118" wide || Projector: JVC X570/RS420
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post #13413 of 13859 Old 10-16-2019, 08:28 PM
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Added the second RS2 to my system which looks like:

_______Screen_______
________S2_________

RS2_____________ RS2

_______Row1________

_______Row2________

________S1_________

Big, big power... . The beginning of Blade Runner 2049 is an emotional experience
(the lines are just so that I could space it out in the text box)

The hum in the first sub is not super loud but it is there from 5-6 ft away with projector off in room. With projector on at about 7' away I can't hear it. Appears that the second sub is quieter but I have not spent time to really test... will do that later in the week. Can't wait to dial these babies in as I know it can get quite a bit better.
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7.4.6 system: Processors:Marantz 8805 || Xilica XP4080 Amps: Parasound A31 and ATI AT528NC & AT526NC n-core ||Speakers: Procella P8 LCR, Procella P5/P5 in-wall
Subs: JTR Captivator subs: One S2, Two RS2, One S1
Screen: 2.40:1 Seymour XD Acoustically Transparent, 128" diagonal / 118" wide || Projector: JVC X570/RS420

Last edited by farsider3000; 10-16-2019 at 08:34 PM.
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post #13414 of 13859 Old 10-16-2019, 08:31 PM
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^^Where are you? In front of the S1?
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post #13415 of 13859 Old 10-16-2019, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
^^Where are you? In front of the S1?
see updated graphic / 3d render

7.4.6 system: Processors:Marantz 8805 || Xilica XP4080 Amps: Parasound A31 and ATI AT528NC & AT526NC n-core ||Speakers: Procella P8 LCR, Procella P5/P5 in-wall
Subs: JTR Captivator subs: One S2, Two RS2, One S1
Screen: 2.40:1 Seymour XD Acoustically Transparent, 128" diagonal / 118" wide || Projector: JVC X570/RS420
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post #13416 of 13859 Old 10-17-2019, 12:49 AM
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2nd row riser mostly framed. 3/4" maple plywood ready to lay down after we figure out a cooling solution for the subs (heat build-up is no bueno!). we will add front bracing once the subs are in place plus finishing touches. seats are in transit & carpet guy on standby!

oh wait, oh, that's weird... 2 subs being built but looks like room for three??? strange, strange... wonder if @Jeff Permanian could assist with modifying that order...

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post #13417 of 13859 Old 10-17-2019, 05:03 AM
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This build is insane. 3 cap 4k's in a 1700cu ft room.

If this is not enough, please promise your family you will seek professional help asap.
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post #13418 of 13859 Old 10-17-2019, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by serith View Post
2nd row riser mostly framed. 3/4" maple plywood ready to lay down after we figure out a cooling solution for the subs (heat build-up is no bueno!). we will add front bracing once the subs are in place plus finishing touches. seats are in transit & carpet guy on standby!



oh wait, oh, that's weird... 2 subs being built but looks like room for three??? strange, strange... wonder if @Jeff Permanian could assist with modifying that order...





I am not impressed. You have three smaller cavities in the back that you could place subs with woofers facing up. Custom make a metal grate to go over the top.

Until you fill the entire cavity with 18” woofers I think you are letting down yourself and the entire JTR community.


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7.4.6 system: Processors:Marantz 8805 || Xilica XP4080 Amps: Parasound A31 and ATI AT528NC & AT526NC n-core ||Speakers: Procella P8 LCR, Procella P5/P5 in-wall
Subs: JTR Captivator subs: One S2, Two RS2, One S1
Screen: 2.40:1 Seymour XD Acoustically Transparent, 128" diagonal / 118" wide || Projector: JVC X570/RS420
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post #13419 of 13859 Old 10-17-2019, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farsider3000 View Post
Added the second RS2 to my system which looks like:

_______Screen_______
________S2_________

RS2_____________ RS2

_______Row1________

_______Row2________

________S1_________

Big, big power... . The beginning of Blade Runner 2049 is an emotional experience
(the lines are just so that I could space it out in the text box)

The hum in the first sub is not super loud but it is there from 5-6 ft away with projector off in room. With projector on at about 7' away I can't hear it. Appears that the second sub is quieter but I have not spent time to really test... will do that later in the week. Can't wait to dial these babies in as I know it can get quite a bit better.
I remember some of the new IPal PSA guys talking about hearing a very slight hum with the IPals...Could just be a characteristic with some of the high performance high sensitivity drivers ?
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post #13420 of 13859 Old 10-17-2019, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by appelz View Post
And for the average buyer, since this is often misunderstood, placing multiple subs in corners, 1/4 points or even midpoints only gives you a more similar seat-to-seat frequency response. It does not have anything to do with a nice smooth or flat frequency response at those locations. It does mean that when you start to apply PEQ, the seats with similar response behave the same.

Subs in corners gives you some extra gain, since you are energizing room modes in all 3 axes, so you generally will not get anything closely resembling a smooth flat frequency response.
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Originally Posted by appelz View Post
I'm referring to similar frequency response across multiple seats in multiple rows, before any PEQ etc.

At a single seat, it is pretty trivial to get the subwoofer response that one desires. Keep the MLP out of any nulls, put a subwoofer pretty much anywhere you want, and go to work with a DSP. Not much chance nearby seats will sound the same, especially with one sub, multiple rows, etc.

Getting that same smooth response across multiple seating locations absolutely requires the use of a DSP, and depending on the method (Welti-Devantier, SFM ,MSO, Geddes, Lemay virtual sub), some combination of subwoofer location and seating location. In the case of Welti-Devantier, subs are placed in corners, mid points, or 1/4 points. This results in a similar seat-to-seat frequency response across a large listening area. However, because some locations are in the nulls of room modes, and others at peaks, while the frequency response at each seating location will be similar, the response will not be anything close to flat. However, since each seat is similar, you can now employ PEQ and it will affect each seat in a similar way, and you can improve the frequency response equally across quite a large listening area.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cannga View Post
Steve you might want to read up on CEA testing and visit the Subwoofer forum, and maybe thread in my signature. Just the first few posts on first page IMHO would be helpful. 🙂

JL Audio is super nice and powerful (I still have my 113) and famous in audio circle but when it comes to producing full spectrum of bass for movies, there's simply no comparison whatsoever with 18 inchers with high Xmax from, for example, JTR. (There are other companies worth checking as well, but JTR is my favorite.)

Objectively this is proven by CEA testing. Subjectively is up to individual, but in my system the JTR goes way way way deeper for movies, and surprisingly cleaner in mid-bass for music, "faster," with a bigger "punch." YMMV.

I have JTR 1400 but the superstar of JTR lineup is JTR 2400, with tuning freq around 10 Hz 🥶. You have not heard true, clean deep bass until you hear these babies. Hope this helps.
All of this begs a few questions using at minimum 4 subwoofers in 4 places with my Trinnov Altitude 32 (24 channels) for my ongoing home theater upgraderemodel, as I am considering perhaps selling my 2 JL Audio f212 and 2 Paradigm Persona subwoofers and perhaps getting 4 of the JTR dual 18" subwoofers, with of course Trinnov Master Calibrator Adam Pelz coming out to do his setup/calibration magic and probably adding a QSC Q-Sys Core 100f to the mix for easier subwoofer setup/calibration (My revised/renovated dedicated theater will be 18'3" wide, 23'4" long, 12' high, with component racks and disc storage hidden at the very rear with cabinetry/shelves):

1. Generally, using the same 4 subwoofers either at the 4 room corners, at the quarter points of opposing walls, or at the mid points of all 4 walls, after PEQ and room correction/optimization by a top pro like Adam or Curt, etc, will one method of placement sound better, different, more musical, deeper for movies, etc than another? Or after PEQ and room correction/optimization, will the sonics be hard to distinguish?

2. Ported vs non-ported subwoofers. Cannga mentions his high regard for a JTR 2400 ported subwoofer. Can ported subwoofers be designed to be as "quick", musical and disappearing as non-ported subwoofers? E.G., in the JTR subwoofer line, how do ported vs non-ported subwoofers compare in this regard. (I realize many folks here are not that much into music, movies only, but I and some others use our systems for both music and movies.)

Theater Renovation: 3 Aerial Acoustics 7ts & 6 7LCRs; 13 Triad Rotating Silver/9 Sat; 9 Seaton 21" sealed subwoofers; Trinnov Altitude 32 SSP; 3 Theta Digital Prometheus, Trinnov Amplitude 8 & 8M, and ATI AT526NC amplifiers; Sony VW5000 projector; Lumagen Radiance Pro; Panamorph DCR lens; Stewart Filmscreen Vistascope 14' wide 2.40 SnoMatte 100 screen; Kaleidescape & Pioneer UDP-LX500 4k players; Apple TV 4k; TIVO Bolt OTA.

Last edited by Steve Bruzonsky; 10-18-2019 at 09:48 AM.
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post #13421 of 13859 Old 10-17-2019, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
All of this begs a few questions using at minimum 4 subwoofers in 4 places with my Trinnov Altitude 32 (24 channels) for my ongoing home theater upgraderemodel, as I am considering perhaps selling my 2 JL Audio f212 and 2 Paradigm Persona subwoofers and perhaps getting 4 of the JTR dual 18" subwoofers, with of course Trinnov Master Calibrator Adam Pelz coming out to do his setup/calibration magic and probably adding a QSC Q-Sys Core 100f to the mix for easier subwoofer setup/calibration (My revised/renovated dedicated theater will be 18'3" wide, 23'4" long, 12' high, with component racks and disc storage hidden at the very rear with cabinetry/shelves):

1. Generally, using the same 4 subwoofers either at the 4 room corners, at the quarter points of opposing walls, or at the mid points of all 4 walls, after PEQ and room correction/optimization by a top pro like Adam or Curt, etc, will one method of placement sound better, different, more musical, deeper for movies, etc than another? Or after PEQ and room correction/optimization, will the sonics be hard to distinguish?

2. Ported vs non-ported subwoofers. Cannga mentions his high regard for a JTR 2400 ported subwoofer. Can ported subwoofers be designed to be as "quick", musical and disappearing as non-ported subwoofers? E.G., in the JTR subwoofer line, how do ported vs non-ported subwoofers compare in this regard. (I realize many folks here are not that much into music, movies only, but I and some others use our systems for both music and movies.)

Hi,

I hope that some of my JTR friends will forgive me if I try to answer some of your questions.

If you are going to have a professional calibrator help you with your system, then he can also help to determine the best location for the subwoofers. And, that may take some experimentation with different placement options. The best location is somewhat room dependent, vis-a-vis listening positions dependent, and can't always be determined in advance. If your build depends on your ability to select subwoofer placement in advance, then I would consult the calibrator who is going to have to dial-in your final frequency response, and get his advice on subwoofer placement.

The answer to your first question just involves some experimentation. The answer to your second question is more complicated than that. You haven't said exactly why you want to upgrade from your current subs, but I assume you are chasing more significant low-bass effects. Even a pair of Cap 2400's would have much more low-frequency SPL and TR (tactile response) than your current four subs have. Any good subwoofer can sound good with music, but some subwoofers are more noticeable than others, so when you speak of the four Cap 2400's "disappearing", I have some concern.

Too me, it's not so much that large, powerful ported subwoofers can't be as quick as sealed subs, it is more the fact that they produce so much more low-frequency SPL and TR than you are currently used to. That will add to the perception of bass weight, compared to the subs you currently have. The big ported JTR subs are often described as violent, and I think that is a valid description. Would you like that deep-bass SPL and TR violence for movies? I absolutely think that you would. Would the four large ported subwoofers blend or disappear in the same way that your current subs do for music? I'm not as sure.

You obviously have a lot of money invested in your current subs, and will be investing quite a bit in your new ones as well. If I were you, I wouldn't do that without some auditions. One way would be to try to find someone in your area with large ported subwoofers who would be willing to let you listen to some of your music with them. A better way would be to order some ported subwoofers, from a couple of different sources, to test them in your own room before jumping all-in with an order for four subs.

For instance, I might order one JTR Cap2400 and one Rythmik FV25HP, or one Rythmik FV18. Test both of the subs you are auditioning for both movies and music. If both give you the right combination of blending for music, and the deep-bass and TR that you are looking for with movies, then multiples of that sub will do the same thing, on an even larger scale. If one sub seems better to you for movies and the other seems better for music, then you will have a choice to make. And, it's a choice that only you can make.

For the amount of investment involved, and with your obvious financial resources, I would do this if I were you. Going from a sealed subwoofer to a really powerful ported sub can be an eye-opening experience. Going to four of them all at once will be even more so. Of course, you could also consider buying a single sealed JTR sub to test. All current JTR subs are maximized for strong low-frequency performance. And, the sealed JTR subs will be more potent in that respect than your current subs are. Four RS1's, or especially four RS2's, would give you very significant bass capabilities, even in a roughly 5100^3 room.

My best advice is to find a way to audition some ported subs so that you can answer your second question to your own satisfaction. If you do, I have no doubt that you will end-up with a terrific sound system. Meanwhile, reading Section VIII of the Guide, linked in my signature, may be of some benefit.

Regards,
Mike

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.

Last edited by mthomas47; 10-17-2019 at 05:25 PM. Reason: Typo
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post #13422 of 13859 Old 10-17-2019, 06:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
All of this begs a few questions using at minimum 4 subwoofers in 4 places....

....Ported vs non-ported subwoofers. Cannga mentions his high regard for a JTR 2400 ported subwoofer. Can ported subwoofers be designed to be as "quick", musical and disappearing as non-ported subwoofers? E.G., in the JTR subwoofer line, how do ported vs non-ported subwoofers compare in this regard. (I realize many folks here are not that much into music, movies only, but I and some others use our systems for both music and movies.)
Steve, first some caveats: my JL E112 is not as "powerful/good" as your JL F212, and I have not listened to JTR sealed subwoofers, only the ported JTR 1400. All comments applied to my system only and subjected to my bias/personal preference; I can't tell what you'll hear (of course). Having said all that, I have been playing enough with so many subwoofers over so many years, so here we go:

Subjectively, the ported JTR 1400 is both "faster" (audiophile term frequently frowned upon, but I know I'm safe with you) and deeper than JL E112. Came to me as a complete surprise as JTR is A, ported, and B, has really large driver (both rightly or wrongly historically linked to a "slower" sound). JL has a reputation of being fast in audiophile circles, but sounds ponderous next to JTR 1400.

Objectively, any JTR will walk all over any JL of approx. equivalent cost, or cost no object. There is just simply no comparison: the 18" deep Xmax JTR driver is among THE most powerful driver used in "commonly available" commercial subwoofers nowadays. JL at 12/13 inches is bringing a knife to a gun fight. At equivalent price (around $2000) the gap between JTR 1400 and JL E112 is the size of Grand Canyon, subjectively and objectively, IMHO.

Ported vs Sealed: There have been thousands upon thousands of argument on this topic and I have nothing worthy to contribute. But I believe the ported JTR 2400 and 4000 is at this point vastly more popular among JTR fans because it plunges into regions that no one (no one, see Data Bass chart on first post of my JTR signature below) else goes. Ported does have significant advantage in the 15-30 Hz range (lots of movie sound effects are in this range) AND it sounds "fast" and clean. If you are a fan of ultra deep bass, JTR 2400 and 4000 are the no-regret, creme de la creme purchase.

Music vs. Movies: For movies my vote is clearly for ported as the region from 15-30 is important in movies, and this is where the ported design shines. For music, in my system the ported JTR sounds faster than sealed JL - but this is a subjective observation so YMMV.

My vote/bias/humble opinion: If I were to start buying subwoofers today for combined movie/music system, there is very little doubt it's the JTR 2400. The JTR 4000 doubles power at lower cost, but if cost and space allow might be better to get 2 JTR 2400's than to get 1 JTR 4000. 2 JTR 2400's give you same power IIRC as 4000, AND give smoother room response, and are easier to manage physically. That said if you have the room, I'm not going to stop you from buying the 4000 :-) (the "king" of subwoofer). BTW, if you are talking about 4 JTR 4000's or 4 JTR S2's, you'll have one of the most powerful bass on this planet. I have just one humble JTR 1400 and my room sometimes shakes like the world is ending.

Bottom line: Despite of my enthusiasm, does not hurt to order the ported JTR 4000 or sealed JTR S2 and have a shoot out with your F212. For movies there is no doubt whatsoever in my mind the JTR will kill in both extension (ultra deep bass) and power (loud and clean). For music just listen for yourself.
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Regards, Can
My System & Theta Casablanca Mini-Review (CB IVa setup help HERE) Uncontrolled passion for music, and sound.
Interesting Audio Diagrams :-) & High-End Speaker Reviews
JTR Subwoofer Thread I don't always listen to subwoofers, but when I do, it's JTR :-).

Last edited by cannga; 10-17-2019 at 07:27 PM.
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post #13423 of 13859 Old 10-17-2019, 07:09 PM - Thread Starter
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The chart that I mentioned above - from Data-Bass, the premier testing site for subwoofers and drivers.
JTR 4000 is dual-driver ported, JTR S2 is dual-driver sealed, JTR 2400 is single driver ported.
https://www.data-bass.com/data?page=...rt=desc&mfr=-1



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Regards, Can
My System & Theta Casablanca Mini-Review (CB IVa setup help HERE) Uncontrolled passion for music, and sound.
Interesting Audio Diagrams :-) & High-End Speaker Reviews
JTR Subwoofer Thread I don't always listen to subwoofers, but when I do, it's JTR :-).
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post #13424 of 13859 Old 10-17-2019, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GatoGoat View Post
I remember some of the new IPal PSA guys talking about hearing a very slight hum with the IPals...Could just be a characteristic with some of the high performance high sensitivity drivers ?
Farsider3000's case should be different. The 2400W and 4000W amps are more susceptible to 60Hz ground loop hum. My Cap 1400, which you heard, never produced any hum at any of the receptacles I plugged it into. I was able to get rid of the hum from my Cap 4000ULF.

The sound you described looks more like the hiss from higher sensitivity drivers. The TV36-IPals still have the same amp plate based on 2 x ICEpower 700AS1 from the V3611.
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Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 10-17-2019 at 07:29 PM.
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post #13425 of 13859 Old 10-17-2019, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
The 2400W and 4000W amps are more susceptible to 60Hz ground loop hum. My Cap 1400, which you heard, never produced any hum at any of the receptacles I plugged it into.

Different amps. 2400/4000 = Torpedo amps. 1400 = ICE amp.

I know you're aware, just mentioning it for others that may not be.
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post #13426 of 13859 Old 10-17-2019, 08:45 PM
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I did not own a JTR sub but my speakerpower sp1-4000 did not have hum in my system. My clone was very loud buzzing or hum coming out of my speakers.

Building the room, speakers, and subs.
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post #13427 of 13859 Old 10-18-2019, 01:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi,

I hope that some of my JTR friends will forgive me if I try to answer some of your questions.

If you are going to have a professional calibrator help you with your system, then he can also help to determine the best location for the subwoofers. And, that may take some experimentation with different placement options. The best location is somewhat room dependent, vis-a-vis listening positions dependent, and can't always be determined in advance. If your build depends on your ability to select subwoofer placement in advance, then I would consult the calibrator who is going to have to dial-in your final frequency response, and get his advice on subwoofer placement.

The answer to your first question just involves some experimentation. The answer to your second question is more complicated than that. You haven't said exactly why you want to upgrade from your current subs, but I assume you are chasing more significant low-bass effects. Even a pair of Cap 2400's would have much more low-frequency SPL and TR (tactile response) than your current four subs have. Any good subwoofer can sound good with music, but some subwoofers are more noticeable than others, so when you speak of the four Cap 2400's "disappearing", I have some concern.

Too me, it's not so much that large, powerful ported subwoofers can't be as quick as sealed subs, it is more the fact that they produce so much more low-frequency SPL and TR than you are currently used to. That will add to the perception of bass weight, compared to the subs you currently have. The big ported JTR subs are often described as violent, and I think that is a valid description. Would you like that deep-bass SPL and TR violence for movies? I absolutely think that you would. Would the four large ported subwoofers blend or disappear in the same way that your current subs do for music? I'm not as sure.

You obviously have a lot of money invested in your current subs, and will be investing quite a bit in your new ones as well. If I were you, I wouldn't do that without some auditions. One way would be to try to find someone in your area with large ported subwoofers who would be willing to let you listen to some of your music with them. A better way would be to order some ported subwoofers, from a couple of different sources, to test them in your own room before jumping all-in with an order for four subs.

For instance, I might order one JTR Cap2400 and one Rythmik FV25HP, or one Rythmik FV18. Test both of the subs you are auditioning for both movies and music. If both give you the right combination of blending for music, and the deep-bass and TR that you are looking for with movies, then multiples of that sub will do the same thing, on an even larger scale. If one sub seems better to you for movies and the other seems better for music, then you will have a choice to make. And, it's a choice that only you can make.

For the amount of investment involved, and with your obvious financial resources, I would do this if I were you. Going from a sealed subwoofer to a really powerful ported sub can be an eye-opening experience. Going to four of them all at once will be even more so. Of course, you could also consider buying a single sealed JTR sub to test. All current JTR subs are maximized for strong low-frequency performance. And, the sealed JTR subs will be more potent in that respect than your current subs are. Four RS1's, or especially four RS2's, would give you very significant bass capabilities, even in a roughly 5100^3 room.

My best advice is to find a way to audition some ported subs so that you can answer your second question to your own satisfaction. If you do, I have no doubt that you will end-up with a terrific sound system. Meanwhile, reading Section VIII of the Guide, linked in my signature, may be of some benefit.

Regards,
Mike
The good news here is I can "overpower" and have it all for movies, and the Trinnov Altitude 32 SSP has 29 memories (and more via USB stick) so i can have different modes for different types of movies and music. Adam Pelz when he comes can work with me to set up these modes. For music, the subwoofer power can be turned down to avoid too much shaking and be equivalent to what I hear at good musical venues in terms of bass and mid-bass. Moving last May to the Trinnov SSP gives me great flexibility in this regard! Adam already advised placement at mid-points, quarter points of side walls, or all 4 corners, whatever works for me - I'm just wondering if in the end after PEQ and room optimization one placement scheme will sound better than the others at the MLP, if anyone can say from experience in this regard.

I once had three ported Aerial SW12 subwoofers. Very musical. However, two JL Audio f212s non-ported are better, not necessarily more musical but simply more output and ease. So I have had ported subwoofers which I did consider to be quite musical.

If I sell my current subs and buy four of the JTRs I won't come out way behind $$$ and I sort of think I'll be guarenteed the "liftoff" factor when I want it yet still get all the musicality I need due to Adam Pelz's calibration and setup expertise and his ability to set different memories for the bass and mid-bass with the Trinnov SSP.

As you may know, Adam does great work but it does cost $$. I am not gonna experiment and move subs around as I will end up back in the hospital and have my other hip replaced! And Adam is super busy, just got back from Tel Aviv, its best if I can get it all ready for Adam to do his magic for if I add/change thereafter I may have to wait until he can schedule to be back in this area and could cost additional $$. So I am simply trying to use some objective overkill and evaluate what others have to say before I make any changes/choice, as my theater upgrade is taking time and I want to get it "right" without hassling and tweaking thereafter (for once in my life) so that Adam can do his magic and have it done once and for all!

Again, I appreciate, respect your statement that "Would you like that deep-bass SPL and TR violence for movies? I absolutely think that you would. Would the four large ported subwoofers blend or disappear in the same way that your current subs do for music? I'm not as sure." But when Adam comes out we will also do listening and get the right sub settings for both different types of movies and music - there is no reason why we can't make the subs "disappear" as necessary to be musical. And just think of how pipe organ will sound!

Also, I do have the space at the quarter points of the side walls for four JTR Captivator 4000ULF-ST (ported) as they are 28″ x 58″ x 20.5″ (HxWxD). What's important here is the height will not interfere with my on wall Aerial Acoustics 7LCRs (6) as they will be mounted with center tweeters a foot higher than the tweeters of the floorstanding Aerial Acoustics 7ts up front (3), plenty of room for the width, and the depth of 20.5" is fine as the aisles will be at least 36" on each side! On the other hand, contemplating four JTR Captivator S2 (sealed),they are 40″x21″x18″ (HxWxD), and although this height of 40" might be workable I think the 28" height of the ported model is preferable.
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post #13428 of 13859 Old 10-18-2019, 05:44 AM
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Farsider3000's case should be different. The 2400W and 4000W amps are more susceptible to 60Hz ground loop hum. My Cap 1400, which you heard, never produced any hum at any of the receptacles I plugged it into. I was able to get rid of the hum from my Cap 4000ULF.

The sound you described looks more like the hiss from higher sensitivity drivers. The TV36-IPals still have the same amp plate based on 2 x ICEpower 700AS1 from the V3611.


How’d you get rid of the hum in your 4000?
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post #13429 of 13859 Old 10-18-2019, 06:33 AM
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How’d you get rid of the hum in your 4000?
In my case, the source of hum is from the coaxial cable for the cable box, and it's easy to test it.

It was suggested by Brian at Rythmik that a surge protector with coax protection might work. The surge protector I use for my TV has the coax protection. I ran the coaxial cable from the wall to the surge protector, then to my cable box, which is connected to my TV via HDMI. Viola, the hum is gone.

The surge protector doesn't need to be fancy. This works for me:
https://www.amazon.com/Belkin-BE1122...QP6SVMAE497E1R

You shouldn't have the hum as you are upgrading from the Cap 2400ULFs to the Cap 4000ULFs. All of them have the SpeakerPower Torpedo amps, meaning if the amps would introduce hum, you would have heard it from the Cap 2400ULFs.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

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post #13430 of 13859 Old 10-18-2019, 07:06 AM
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In my case, the source of hum is from the coaxial cable for the cable box, and it's easy to test it.

It was suggested by Brian at Rythmik that a surge protector with coax protection might work. The surge protector I use for my TV has the coax protection. I ran the coaxial cable from the wall to the surge protector, then to my cable box, which is connected to my TV via HDMI. Viola, the hum is gone.

The surge protector doesn't need to be fancy. This works for me:
https://www.amazon.com/Belkin-BE1122...QP6SVMAE497E1R

You shouldn't have the hum as you are upgrading from the Cap 2400ULFs to the Cap 4000ULFs. All of them have the SpeakerPower Torpedo amps, meaning if the amps would introduce hum, you would have heard it from the Cap 2400ULFs.


Righto - I’m not too worried, actually not at all, just I hear this as a highly worrisome problem all across the forums. The dreaded hiss and hum. Wondered what your magical potion was.
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post #13431 of 13859 Old 10-18-2019, 07:47 AM
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Righto - I’m not too worried, actually not at all, just I hear this as a highly worrisome problem all across the forums. The dreaded hiss and hum. Wondered what your magical potion was.
Yeah. Finding out the source of the hum is not easy, and sometimes eliminating the hum is harder.

When I helped a friend set up his 2 Cap 2400ULFs, one of the Cap 2400ULF had the hum. The source of the hum was not the cable box, as he did not have cable to the TV. The hum came from the outlet being in the same circuit with the dining room dimmer switch. He was unwilling to not use the dimmer switch so there really isn't any safe and quick way to get rid of the hum. He ended up using a cheater plug and it worked like a charm.

Hum, hiss or not, these speakers and subs from JTR are worth it.
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Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

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post #13432 of 13859 Old 10-18-2019, 08:39 AM
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Father of Serith here. I have found over the years that if you have hum (ground loop) from the cable connection -I am assuming cable tv connection- there is a voltage differential between the ground of the cable and the electrical ground in your electrical panel.It dose not take much.less than a volt can cause problems. An isolation transformer on the cable can fix it.You should have an electrician make sure that the panels neutral connection is good.I have seen many times where the splice is made from the power company line to your service entrance cable is made the connection is corroded and has resistance.
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post #13433 of 13859 Old 10-18-2019, 08:53 AM
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Father of Serith here. I have found over the years that if you have hum (ground loop) from the cable connection -I am assuming cable tv connection- there is a voltage differential between the ground of the cable and the electrical ground in your electrical panel.It dose not take much.less than a volt can cause problems. An isolation transformer on the cable can fix it.You should have an electrician make sure that the panels neutral connection is good.I have seen many times where the splice is made from the power company line to your service entrance cable is made the connection is corroded and has resistance.

Yup very good point, had this exact issue though the hum was very loud because the coax jack at the wall was right behind a Cap2400. Put in an isolation transformer on the coax line and immediately dead silent.
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post #13434 of 13859 Old 10-18-2019, 08:53 AM
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Righto - I’m not too worried, actually not at all, just I hear this as a highly worrisome problem all across the forums. The dreaded hiss and hum. Wondered what your magical potion was.

I know the question was not for me but...I do use an isolation transformer on my coax cable which worked wonders to eliminate a ground loop issue but I used the cheater plug test and it had no effect on the one amp so it’s not a ground loop issue on my RS2.

Amps are not perfect and they do vary in levels of hum. I had to return a Parasound Halo A31 three channel amp since one of the three channels had hum and the others didn’t.... the new amp eliminates the hum.

So again the hum (in only one of my two new RS2) is very low level and actually seems to be a lower level now. I will keep testing and make a decision if I need Jeff to replace the amp.

I am definitely keeping both RS2.


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post #13435 of 13859 Old 10-18-2019, 09:00 AM
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Yeah. Finding out the source of the hum is not easy, and sometimes eliminating the hum is harder.

When I helped a friend set up his 2 Cap 2400ULFs, one of the Cap 2400ULF had the hum. The source of the hum was not the cable box, as he did not have cable to the TV. The hum came from the outlet being in the same circuit with the dining room dimmer switch. He was unwilling to not use the dimmer switch so there really isn't any safe and quick way to get rid of the hum. He ended up using a cheater plug and it worked like a charm.

Hum, hiss or not, these speakers and subs from JTR are worth it.


Agreed!
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post #13436 of 13859 Old 10-18-2019, 09:03 AM
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I know the question was not for me but...I do use an isolation transformer on my coax cable which worked wonders to eliminate a ground loop issue but I used the cheater plug test and it had no effect on the one amp so it’s not a ground loop issue on my RS2.

Amps are not perfect and they do vary in levels of hum. I had to return a Parasound Halo A31 three channel amp since one of the three channels had hum and the others didn’t.... the new amp eliminates the hum.

So again the hum (in only one of my two new RS2) is very low level and actually seems to be a lower level now. I will keep testing and make a decision if I need Jeff to replace the amp.

I am definitely keeping both RS2.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Gotcha. There’s no coax in my house. We run YouTube TV through AppleTV4ks. I’ve been off cable for a while now. I do have a bit of a hiss in my room, but that might be due to sensitivity of my JTRs, OR - I’ve heard Marantz AVRs are notorious for that.
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post #13437 of 13859 Old 10-18-2019, 09:31 AM
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Gotcha. There’s no coax in my house. We run YouTube TV through AppleTV4ks. I’ve been off cable for a while now. I do have a bit of a hiss in my room, but that might be due to sensitivity of my JTRs, OR - I’ve heard Marantz AVRs are notorious for that.

Hiss is usually an amp noise floor issue. I have a separate processor and amps now and some amps I auditioned had a ton of hiss (Crowne) and my current amps are extremely quiet even right at the speakers... but it does depend on speaker sensitivity.

I have had very quiet receivers in the past but like you said the high sensitivity speakers will reveal all of the amps faults (hiss). You could try going to a separate processor and amps with XLR cables...

I auditioned JTR LCR speakers before I bought my Procellas and I did not have hiss. So it is likely your Marantz.


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post #13438 of 13859 Old 10-18-2019, 09:57 AM
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Official JTR Speakers Subwoofer Thread

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Hiss is usually an amp noise floor issue. I have a separate processor and amps now and some amps I auditioned had a ton of hiss (Crowne) and my current amps are extremely quiet even right at the speakers... but it does depend on speaker sensitivity.

I have had very quiet receivers in the past but like you said the high sensitivity speakers will reveal all of the amps faults (hiss). You could try going to a separate processor and amps with XLR cables...

I auditioned JTR LCR speakers before I bought my Procellas and I did not have hiss. So it is likely your Marantz.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I’m running a Marantz 7704 with a DSonic Amp for mains/surrounds and two Crown amps for Atmos. All XLR.

With all the amps on and the Marantz off - no hiss.

With the Marantz on and all the amps on - slight hiss.

It doesn’t really bug me. Just interesting.
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post #13439 of 13859 Old 10-18-2019, 11:32 AM
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I’m running a Marantz 7704 with a DSonic Amp for mains/surrounds and two Crown amps for Atmos. All XLR.

With all the amps on and the Marantz off - no hiss.

With the Marantz on and all the amps on - slight hiss.

It doesn’t really bug me. Just interesting.


Waaaaaay off topic. But the buzz/hiss doesn’t occur when I unplug my projector from the wall. Interesting.
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post #13440 of 13859 Old 10-18-2019, 02:50 PM
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hoping i'll be hum-free as the outlets i'll be using are dedicated 10-2 runs to 20a breakers on the sub-panel for the room.
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