Official JTR Speakers Subwoofer Thread - Page 449 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #13441 of 13859 Old 10-18-2019, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by serith View Post
hoping i'll be hum-free as the outlets i'll be using are dedicated 10-2 runs to 20a breakers on the sub-panel for the room.


So are these.

I think it might be the dimmer on the wall..but it’s on a different circuit?
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post #13442 of 13859 Old 10-19-2019, 02:10 AM
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yolo.


@Jeff Permanian , i just sent you an e-mail to confirm this madness. please add a 3rd standard dimension captivator 4000ulf to my order. i guess it's time to review my home insurance policy to see if demolition by bass is covered...

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post #13443 of 13859 Old 10-19-2019, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by serith View Post
yolo.




@Jeff Permanian , i just sent you an e-mail to confirm this madness. please add a 3rd standard dimension captivator 4000ulf to my order. i guess it's time to review my home insurance policy to see if demolition by bass is covered...





Where do you live again? Anywhere near Texas?
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post #13444 of 13859 Old 10-19-2019, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by ScottieBoysName View Post
I’️m running a Marantz 7704 with a DSonic Amp for mains/surrounds and two Crown amps for Atmos. All XLR.

With all the amps on and the Marantz off - no hiss.

With the Marantz on and all the amps on - slight hiss.

It doesn’️t really bug me. Just interesting.


Waaaaaay off topic. But the buzz/hiss doesn’️t occur when I unplug my projector from the wall. Interesting.
I have the same problem. It is due to the denon marantz being on 2 prong plug but the projector has a ground prong that is tied to the You can try plugging the projector to your audio setup with and extension cord to see.
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post #13445 of 13859 Old 10-19-2019, 10:04 AM
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Yeah. Finding out the source of the hum is not easy, and sometimes eliminating the hum is harder.

When I helped a friend set up his 2 Cap 2400ULFs, one of the Cap 2400ULF had the hum. The source of the hum was not the cable box, as he did not have cable to the TV. The hum came from the outlet being in the same circuit with the dining room dimmer switch. He was unwilling to not use the dimmer switch so there really isn't any safe and quick way to get rid of the hum. He ended up using a cheater plug and it worked like a charm.

Hum, hiss or not, these speakers and subs from JTR are worth it.
Hi, do you remember if it was one of these dimmers or a more traditional slider?
I have a dimmer in the same circuit but I am thinking maybe I need to remove it.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Lutron-C...WH-R/206828225
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post #13446 of 13859 Old 10-19-2019, 10:50 AM
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I have the same problem. It is due to the denon marantz being on 2 prong plug but the projector has a ground prong that is tied to the You can try plugging the projector to your audio setup with and extension cord to see.


Plug the projector into the Marantz? There’s no place to do that.

The Marantz does have a two prong. That’s odd.
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post #13447 of 13859 Old 10-19-2019, 03:15 PM
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If you are having triac induced noise from a Home Depot typical dimmer especially using led bulbs get one of these .Only a autotransformer is better. https://www.google.com/search?q=Trai...88400048097740
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post #13448 of 13859 Old 10-19-2019, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ScottieBoysName View Post
Plug the projector into the Marantz? There’s no place to do that.

The Marantz does have a two prong. That’s odd.

Plug it into the same receptacle / circuit.


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Subs: JTR Captivator subs: One S2, Two RS2, One S1
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post #13449 of 13859 Old 10-19-2019, 03:45 PM
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Plug it into the same receptacle / circuit.


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It is. I run a “PowerBridge” for the projector that puts the outlet for it across the room, then it plugs into my Furman along with the Marantz and all the other gear.

I think that, that might have something to do with it as well.

As an update, Jeff emailed me my 4000-TL (Tall Version) will be done on Thursday of this week!
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post #13450 of 13859 Old 10-19-2019, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by ScottieBoysName View Post
It is. I run a “PowerBridge” for the projector that puts the outlet for it across the room, then it plugs into my Furman along with the Marantz and all the other gear.

I think that, that might have something to do with it as well.

As an update, Jeff emailed me my 4000-TL (Tall Version) will be done on Thursday of this week!
My denon does have the buzz when I plug the projector to the same power center.
it does not like the ground of the projector being returned with the HDMI cable.

I only notice it with a high sensitivity speaker and a sensitive amp. I swapped out to an amp with higher input sensitivity it is almost not there.
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post #13451 of 13859 Old 10-19-2019, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by PoorSignal View Post
My denon does have the buzz when I plug the projector to the same power center.

it does not like the ground of the projector being returned with the HDMI cable.



I only notice it with a high sensitivity speaker and a sensitive amp. I swapped out to an amp with higher input sensitivity it is almost not there.


If I remove the PowerBridge from the equation, and run an extension cord from the projector to the Furman across the room. Less buzz.

If I do this and skip the Furman entirely and plug it into the wall? No noise. Interesting. I know we’re off topic here but we’re all waiting for subs.
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post #13452 of 13859 Old 10-19-2019, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ScottieBoysName View Post
If I remove the PowerBridge from the equation, and run an extension cord from the projector to the Furman across the room. Less buzz.

If I do this and skip the Furman entirely and plug it into the wall? No noise. Interesting. I know we’re off topic here but we’re all waiting for subs.
It's good to have more data. I should try plugging mine into the wall directly too. I thought my AVR is broken but good to find someone with the same issue. But I think it's just Denon/Marantz design being a POS, because it only buzz the center and surround channel and it is not in the L R channels on mine. I think it is because they skipped a 20 cents resistor or bad wiring routing.

When you use the power bridge (which seems to me like an extra extension cord) and furman I guess it adds more resistance to the ground wire and adds buzz.

My D-sonic also shares the same trait as the projector issue. It adds the buzz to the denon without turning it on. So it is likely I need to live with it, unless I want to lift the ground on both of them. I also tried humX and it didn't help this issue
I tried real quick to route a ground wire to the denon ground, instead of making it quieter, it made it a little louder.

To make it JTR related, My JTR comes with 3 prong but I don't have this issue with the JTR plugged in. Think that means the interconnect cable section of the JTR is not tied to the ground wire.
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post #13453 of 13859 Old 10-19-2019, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSignal View Post
It's good to have more data. I should try plugging mine into the wall directly too. I thought my AVR is broken but good to find someone with the same issue. But I think it's just Denon/Marantz design being a POS, because it only buzz the center and surround channel and it is not in the L R channels on mine. I think it is because they skipped a 20 cents resistor or bad wiring routing.

When you use the power bridge (which seems to me like an extra extension cord) and furman I guess it adds more resistance to the ground wire and adds buzz.

My D-sonic also shares the same trait as the projector issue. It adds the buzz to the denon without turning it on. So it is likely I need to live with it, unless I want to lift the ground on both of them. I also tried humX and it didn't help this issue
I tried real quick to route a ground wire to the denon ground, instead of making it quieter, it made it a little louder.

To make it JTR related, My JTR comes with 3 prong but I don't have this issue with the JTR plugged in. Think that means the interconnect cable section of the JTR is not tied to the ground wire.
The PowerBridge is exactly that, an extension cord that is fire rated to run inside a wall (basically a piece of Romex with two finished ends). It's pretty long, but no longer than the extension cord I used to plug into the wall/Furman - and that sounded fine. Perhaps the extension cord is of higher quality and provided less resistance than the guage/quality of the Romex?

Something funny - my room is split in half between two 20 amp circuits. LOTS of stuff is in my rack, which runs all on one circuit. If I use the extension cable on the projector and plug it into the opposite side circuit - LOUD BUZZ OMG. It's significantly worse. There's also a dimmer on that side of the room. I'm going to swap it out for a paddle on Sunday. I think in the attic my PowerBridge crosses over some romex off of that dimmer. We'll know tomorrow.

To make this JTR related - I'm running a DSonic like you - so maybe that's a weird deal as well with the sensitivity.

Everything works 100% quietly/no buzz with the Marantz off. Turn it on as well as having the projector plugged in = buzz. Even removing the HDMI cables that are connected to the Marantz/projector does nothing.
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post #13454 of 13859 Old 10-19-2019, 06:43 PM
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Something funny - my room is split in half between two 20 amp circuits. LOTS of stuff is in my rack, which runs all on one circuit. If I use the extension cable on the projector and plug it into the opposite side circuit - LOUD BUZZ OMG. It's significantly worse. There's also a dimmer on that side of the room. I'm going to swap it out for a paddle on Sunday. I think in the attic my PowerBridge crosses over some romex off of that dimmer. We'll know tomorrow.
I used to have my projector on the different circuit in the back of the room (the breakers are next to each other, opposite phase). Never noticed any noise with my outlaw amp which is 2 wire and played nice with the Denon. But when I got the D sonic this immediately produced a real, ground loop. Like, unbearably loud. I think that is what you heard as well.

That prompted me to run a long extension cord under the rug to plug the projector into the audio circuit. (that also prompted the whole buzz chasing thing, now that I know it's there, I can hear a little hum in the woofer of the speaker as well, damn it)
But, I am planning going with the humX and put my projector BACK onto the other circuit. hopefully break that ground loop. Because the projector draws 300W constantly and I feel my sound and bass is not as good when it was taking it from the audio circuit.
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post #13455 of 13859 Old 10-19-2019, 06:53 PM
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^^^^
Interesting that you have noise only in your center channel. You may be right that there's an issue with the internal cable routing or designs. The powerbridge itself is not likely the cause but where and how it's connected could very well be.


There's a lot of very electrically noisy poorly designed electrical items in our homes. Many are familiar with noisy dimmers because they audibly buzz, but when you look at their electrical output, it is horrible. Highly quality dimmers cost more and some manufacturers are better than others. Where's this going? I have an X10 system in my home which is very sensitive to power-line noise.

You would be shocked at the things X10ers have found which generate noise throughout the electrical system. Things like fluorescent lamps, poor quality LED bulbs, most computer power supplies, cheap phone chargers and even LED nightlights. Having been dealing with this for quite a few years, now when something new comes into the house, I test it against my noise meter. If it generates noise, it either gets a filter block on it or it is returned.

This is one of my biggest concerns with subs distributed around the room and why I'm trying super hard not to do that. Why? Because each may be plugged into a different power circuit - which bypasses my main AV electrical setups.

So far, I've never even had a hint of a ground loop or any noise enter the AV system with this single point ground design. It's ultra-dead quiet.

I recommend considering unplugging all the little items you may have have around the room or on these circuits. Even things that look innocent like a night light or LED lighting or especially computers which contain switching power supplies or UPSes - some of the worse offenders. As a troubleshooting step, maybe switch off all the circuits in your house at the breaker panel except the ones driving your AVR setup.. then check it again. Then methodically switch each one on one by one. You may find something introducing gobs of noise into your setup which is being picked up but generated elsewhere. For UPSes and computers, you really need to pull their cord from the wall while you are testing because they inject gobs of noise when they are operating online or charging. Also in your AV setups with non-polarized circuits, simply try flipping the plug in the socket. Sounds craze but there's some science behind why it can have impacts - depending on the power supply designs in the equipment.

> Anything with a switching PSU (most computers) is likely to be very electrically noisy unless the designers paid attention to backwash. Local filters may be needed to block that noise from entering the circuits. It is ideal to connect all the key components into the same set of power outlets. I prefer to use SurgeX units though some people prefer to use simple power strips with no MOV and other extras.

Just another angle to help consider options, the root causes of the "noise" and maybe a good solution

Additional recommended reading from a commercial vantage -> https://www.middleatlantic.com/-/med...ack.ashx?la=en

I hope this helps with the ground loops - peace.
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post #13456 of 13859 Old 10-19-2019, 06:59 PM
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My two new RS2 are sweet! I can fit two more RS1 under my screen but I will need tow run two additional 20A circuits... that would be NINE 18” JTR woofers in my 3,000 cubic ft room.

Left RS2:


Right RS2:



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Subs: JTR Captivator subs: One S2, Two RS2, One S1
Screen: 2.40:1 Seymour XD Acoustically Transparent, 128" diagonal / 118" wide || Projector: JVC X570/RS420
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post #13457 of 13859 Old 10-19-2019, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSignal View Post
I used to have my projector on the different circuit in the back of the room (the breakers are next to each other, opposite phase). Never noticed any noise with my outlaw amp which is 2 wire and played nice with the Denon. But when I got the D sonic this immediately produced a real, ground loop. Like, unbearably loud. I think that is what you heard as well.



That prompted me to run a long extension cord under the rug to plug the projector into the audio circuit. (that also prompted the whole buzz chasing thing, now that I know it's there, I can hear a little hum in the woofer of the speaker as well, damn it)

But, I am planning going with the humX and put my projector BACK onto the other circuit. hopefully break that ground loop. Because the projector draws 300W constantly and I feel my sound and bass is not as good when it was taking it from the audio circuit.


Maybe the humX is worth me giving it a shot?
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post #13458 of 13859 Old 10-19-2019, 07:10 PM
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Hum has been associated with a Cable/Sat Box. Disconnect this equipment HDMI connection to isolate. I had hum on my 2400ULF’s and a simple HDMI adapter resolved it. If the hum disappears with the cable/sat box HDMI removed. Search this thread and my user name to find the posts and adapter information.

Long story short. Cable/Sat box designers do something stupid with the grounding pin in the HDMI plug layout that induces ground hum on Subs. Good luck Gentlemen!

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post #13459 of 13859 Old 10-19-2019, 07:11 PM
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Maybe the humX is worth me giving it a shot?
I do have it already but it is not getting rid of the low volume buzz that the denon is picking up. So I don't think it is going to do anything if you and I are having the same problem. But it is indeed very strange with the HDMI unplugged you are still getting it. Make sure you don't have a trigger wire going to it also.

I don't have my D-sonic installed right now, but when I put it back in, there will be a real ground loop that's when I will try to break it with the humX.
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post #13460 of 13859 Old 10-19-2019, 07:12 PM
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Maybe the humX is worth me giving it a shot?

I have a few extra humX laying around if you want one. Had to use them before I went to separated with XLR connections.

They help but don’t totally eliminate it.


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7.4.6 system: Processors:Marantz 8805 || Xilica XP4080 Amps: Parasound A31 and ATI AT528NC & AT526NC n-core ||Speakers: Procella P8 LCR, Procella P5/P5 in-wall
Subs: JTR Captivator subs: One S2, Two RS2, One S1
Screen: 2.40:1 Seymour XD Acoustically Transparent, 128" diagonal / 118" wide || Projector: JVC X570/RS420
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post #13461 of 13859 Old 10-19-2019, 07:14 PM
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Maybe the humX is worth me giving it a shot?


Just remembered that the humX can only handle around 700 watts so plugging a JTR sub in is a no-go... but other equipment under that wattage are fine.


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7.4.6 system: Processors:Marantz 8805 || Xilica XP4080 Amps: Parasound A31 and ATI AT528NC & AT526NC n-core ||Speakers: Procella P8 LCR, Procella P5/P5 in-wall
Subs: JTR Captivator subs: One S2, Two RS2, One S1
Screen: 2.40:1 Seymour XD Acoustically Transparent, 128" diagonal / 118" wide || Projector: JVC X570/RS420
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post #13462 of 13859 Old 10-19-2019, 08:36 PM
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I have a few extra humX laying around if you want one. Had to use them before I went to separated with XLR connections.

They help but don’t totally eliminate it.


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I will 100% take one off of your hands!

I would only be using it for the projector. Nothing else.
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post #13463 of 13859 Old 10-19-2019, 08:37 PM
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Just remembered that the humX can only handle around 700 watts so plugging a JTR sub in is a no-go... but other equipment under that wattage are fine.


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My JVC pulls 300 or so, so that’ll be fine.
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post #13464 of 13859 Old 10-19-2019, 08:37 PM
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My two new RS2 are sweet! I can fit two more RS1 under my screen but I will need tow run two additional 20A circuits... that would be NINE 18” JTR woofers in my 3,000 cubic ft room.

Left RS2:


Right RS2:



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Looks good!
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post #13465 of 13859 Old 10-19-2019, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
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My two new RS2 are sweet! I can fit two more RS1 under my screen but I will need tow run two additional 20A circuits... that would be NINE 18” JTR woofers in my 3,000 cubic ft room.
we must be related...
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post #13466 of 13859 Old 10-20-2019, 09:40 PM
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by farsider3000 View Post
My two new RS2 are sweet! I can fit two more RS1 under my screen but I will need tow run two additional 20A circuits... that would be NINE 18” JTR woofers in my 3,000 cubic ft room.

Left RS2:


Right RS2:



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How did you split the outputs from the amp. Are you using something to boost the signal or like a mini dip. Thank you. 9 subs is insane..
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post #13467 of 13859 Old 10-20-2019, 10:40 PM
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this forum is not helping anybody's upgradeitis
...
i only have 3 18 inchers ...
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post #13468 of 13859 Old 10-21-2019, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by ScottieBoysName View Post


If I remove the PowerBridge from the equation, and run an extension cord from the projector to the Furman across the room. Less buzz.

If I do this and skip the Furman entirely and plug it into the wall? No noise. Interesting. I know we’️re off topic here but we’️re all waiting for subs.
Oh man so we are on the same page. Even same circuit it picks up some buzzing noise when a projector is plugged in.

I got a furman elite tonight. It makes the buzz worse. Worse than my Panamax. I tried these on the groups of 4 outlets of the furman. All have pretty loud buzz. I took everything off and plugged the units in question into the wall. (Denon, outlaw , projector ) Then the buzz is pretty quiet. I tried just the projector into the wall. It buzzes.

I think the power conditioner does something with filters and makes it just makes the floating ground of the denon Marantz even further from the earth ground.

When i remove the hdmi from projector to the denon the buzz is gone though. That makes sense. Nothing is connecting the two.

I don’t know if you have time to mess with it more. I think grounding the chassis of the denon marantz may solve this issue. Since there is no metal on the projector, it would have to be from a ground prong. Last I tried to take it from a lug of the conditioner didn’t make a difference and actually a little louder and must have created more loop. I just don’t know if that phono ground point on the denon is shared with the rca connectors or not.
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post #13469 of 13859 Old 10-21-2019, 04:59 AM
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Official JTR Speakers Subwoofer Thread

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Originally Posted by mir3acles View Post
How did you split the outputs from the amp. Are you using something to boost the signal or like a mini dip. Thank you. 9 subs is insane..

To be clear, it’s not nine subs. At the present time I “only” have seven 18” woofers (three dual 18” and one single 18”) and I may add two more in the form of two RS1.

Yes I take the LFE signal from my Marantz Pre/Processor and send it to each sub using a Xilica DSP.



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7.4.6 system: Processors:Marantz 8805 || Xilica XP4080 Amps: Parasound A31 and ATI AT528NC & AT526NC n-core ||Speakers: Procella P8 LCR, Procella P5/P5 in-wall
Subs: JTR Captivator subs: One S2, Two RS2, One S1
Screen: 2.40:1 Seymour XD Acoustically Transparent, 128" diagonal / 118" wide || Projector: JVC X570/RS420

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post #13470 of 13859 Old 10-21-2019, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSignal View Post
Oh man so we are on the same page. Even same circuit it picks up some buzzing noise when a projector is plugged in.

I got a furman elite tonight. It makes the buzz worse. Worse than my Panamax. I tried these on the groups of 4 outlets of the furman. All have pretty loud buzz. I took everything off and plugged the units in question into the wall. (Denon, outlaw , projector ) Then the buzz is pretty quiet. I tried just the projector into the wall. It buzzes.

I think the power conditioner does something with filters and makes it just makes the floating ground of the denon Marantz even further from the earth ground.

When i remove the hdmi from projector to the denon the buzz is gone though. That makes sense. Nothing is connecting the two.

I don’t know if you have time to mess with it more. I think grounding the chassis of the denon marantz may solve this issue. Since there is no metal on the projector, it would have to be from a ground prong. Last I tried to take it from a lug of the conditioner didn’t make a difference and actually a little louder and must have created more loop. I just don’t know if that phono ground point on the denon is shared with the rca connectors or not.
I swapped the dimmer out for a paddle - no change. I've heard of people grounding their Denon/Marantz....but I'm not sure where to start there. LOL. I think the PC does something as well - what model Furman Elite did you get? I have a Furman Elite 20 PFi. The unit itself buzzes, so perhaps that's part of it.
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