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post #13681 of 13817 Old 11-12-2019, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by giomania View Post
Good evening.

I am looking for input on possible inclusion of 1-2 Cap 4000 ULF's in my room. I have attached a drawing that should explain the current setup. The subs were placed in the optimal location for four subs in the room by Mark Seaton in 2011 during a paid calibration. I am just trying to figure out where I would put one or two Cap's, and how to incorporate them with the Marantz AV8805 processor; would I need a Mini DSP? The room placement will probably dictate the specific Cap model. I only have around 24" clearance behind the screen wall, but they don't have to be hidden behind there.

Thanks for any input.

Mark



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Assuming that you have a regular, non-AT, projector screen, the easiest way for you to add 2 more Cap 4000ULF would be to put the stacked master and slave Submersives combo at where your current slave locations, then put the Cap 4000ULFs at where the masters are. This way, the Cap 4000ULFs won't fire into the room. You can go with the regular 4000ULFs or the 4000ULF-TLs.

Alternatively, you can also put the stacked master and slave Submersives combo at the current master locations. Then you just put 2 4000ULF-LP/STs at where the slaves are.

Either of the choices above are very easy to implement. I recommend still getting a miniDSP to that you can adjust each sub independently.
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Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
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post #13682 of 13817 Old 11-13-2019, 08:20 AM
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I agree with Chuck on the alternative option. Stack your Submersives in the locations by the seats, then put the Cap4000's up front. I would also recommend installing some "oh ****" handles on all seats!!
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post #13683 of 13817 Old 11-13-2019, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Assuming that you have a regular, non-AT, projector screen, the easiest way for you to add 2 more Cap 4000ULF would be to put the stacked master and slave Submersives combo at where your current slave locations, then put the Cap 4000ULFs at where the masters are. This way, the Cap 4000ULFs won't fire into the room. You can go with the regular 4000ULFs or the 4000ULF-TLs.

Alternatively, you can also put the stacked master and slave Submersives combo at the current master locations. Then you just put 2 4000ULF-LP/STs at where the slaves are.

Either of the choices above are very easy to implement. I recommend still getting a miniDSP to that you can adjust each sub independently.
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
I agree with Chuck on the alternative option. Stack your Submersives in the locations by the seats, then put the Cap4000's up front. I would also recommend installing some "oh ****" handles on all seats!!
Thanks for the input. I noticed that there was no recommendation for just one 4000ULF! For some reason, I have this vision that the room will be flexing like the walls in the hall at the end of the Matrix when Neo realized he was "The One".

What is the current recommended MiniDSP model, and I assume I would need two?

Regarding the recommendations, I do in fact have a non-AT screen. The only limitation I have with the recommendations is that the four SubMersives do not match; 2 are flat black, and two are black oak. To summarize and be sure I understand the recommendations, in what I think is the order of preference:

Option 1: Stack the four SubMersives behind the screen wall, and place two 4000ULF or 4000ULF-TL in the locations behind the seats.

Option 1 Comment: Since the SubMersives do not match, this IS optimal aesthetically. I could use the 4000ULF-TL, dropped right where the existing SubMersive HP's are located. Alternatively, I could use the 4000ULF-ST model horizontally and place the Noesis 212 HT surround speakers on top of the subwoofer. The current Noesis stands are 18" tall, and the ST model is 28" high, so the tweeter would be raised by 10" for these surround speakers. The standard 4000ULF would not fit without relocating the chairs in that area.

Option 2: Stack the four SubMersives behind the seats on the sides of the rooms, and place two 4000ULF standard units behind the screen wall, with the ports facing the side walls.

Option 2 Comment: Since the SubMersives do not match, this IS NOT optimal aesthetically.

Option 3: Proposal: How about the rear wall of the room? I could use the 4000ULF-ST model horizontally and place the Triple 12 HT rear surround speakers on top of the subwoofer.

Thanks so much for the input.

Mark
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post #13684 of 13817 Old 11-13-2019, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post

Option 2: Stack the four SubMersives behind the seats on the sides of the rooms, and place two 4000ULF standard units behind the screen wall, with the ports facing the side walls.

Option 2 Comment: Since the SubMersives do not match, this IS NOT optimal aesthetically.
My guess is with a pair of cap 4000's you won't find the submersives even necessary after a short honeymoon period with everything hooked up at once. That just me being dead honest.

If you do anything I'd find the best location for the two cap4000's for room response and then use the subM's as nearfield tactile response subs as their total capability won't equal the two cap4000's. The closer they are to your seats, the more you may end up benefiting from actually keeping them. Again tho, my guess is you'll realize that they won't be adding much if anything to the presentation if you end up with a pair of Cap4's in the same room.

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post #13685 of 13817 Old 11-13-2019, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by giomania View Post
What is the current recommended MiniDSP model, and I assume I would need two?

2x4 HD. One is all you need. It has 4 outputs.
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post #13686 of 13817 Old 11-13-2019, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by zeus33 View Post
2x4 HD. One is all you need. It has 4 outputs.


Thanks. If I kept the SubMersives, and added two 4000ULFs, I would need five outputs, unless you recommending splitting some of the MiniDSP output connections?

I wish they had an updated balanced model.

Mark


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post #13687 of 13817 Old 11-13-2019, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post
Thanks for the input. I noticed that there was no recommendation for just one 4000ULF! For some reason, I have this vision that the room will be flexing like the walls in the hall at the end of the Matrix when Neo realized he was "The One".

What is the current recommended MiniDSP model, and I assume I would need two?

Regarding the recommendations, I do in fact have a non-AT screen. The only limitation I have with the recommendations is that the four SubMersives do not match; 2 are flat black, and two are black oak. To summarize and be sure I understand the recommendations, in what I think is the order of preference:

Option 1: Stack the four SubMersives behind the screen wall, and place two 4000ULF or 4000ULF-TL in the locations behind the seats.

Option 1 Comment: Since the SubMersives do not match, this IS optimal aesthetically. I could use the 4000ULF-TL, dropped right where the existing SubMersive HP's are located. Alternatively, I could use the 4000ULF-ST model horizontally and place the Noesis 212 HT surround speakers on top of the subwoofer. The current Noesis stands are 18" tall, and the ST model is 28" high, so the tweeter would be raised by 10" for these surround speakers. The standard 4000ULF would not fit without relocating the chairs in that area.

Option 3: Proposal: How about the rear wall of the room? I could use the 4000ULF-ST model horizontally and place the Triple 12 HT rear surround speakers on top of the subwoofer.

Thanks so much for the input.

Mark
Without pictures of the room, it's really hard to make the most proper recommendation.

Option1: The 4000ULF-STs placed upright would work best here because they take up pretty much the same real estate. This also means they should have the same acoustic center and integration is the easiest. Any time when you add more subs to new locations, it's best to start anew.

It looks like the 4000ULF-STs would fit as well. However, this involves making changes to your current setup and the subs' acoustic centers are also different. I didn't know you are OK with this. I also don't want to act like the furniture salesman that says: "Get this set... you just need a bigger house..." LOL...

Option 3: Of course you can put a single Cap 4000ULF at the back of the room. I didn't know you are open to this. However, I don't know if that is a good spot for a subwoofer. Doing so could potentially be a lot of work. I also think putting a Cap 4000ULF furthest from the seating is kind of a waste. Personally I prefer to use the powerhouse as the main feature. It also adds the TR and port wind to the overall experience.


Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 11-13-2019 at 06:41 PM.
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post #13688 of 13817 Old 11-13-2019, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Without pictures of the room, it's really hard to make the most proper recommendation.

Option1: The 4000ULF-TLs would work best here because they take up pretty much the same real estate. This also means they should have the same acoustic center and integration is the easiest. Any time when you add more subs to new locations, it's best to start anew.

It looks like the 4000ULF-STs would fit as well. However, this involves making changes to your current setup and the subs' acoustic centers are also different. I didn't know you are OK with this. I also don't want to act like the furniture salesman that says: "Get this set... you just need a bigger house..." LOL...

Option 3: Of course you can put a single Cap 4000ULF at the back of the room. I didn't know you are open to this. However, I don't know if that is a good spot for a subwoofer. Doing so could potentially be a lot of work. I also think putting a Cap 4000ULF furthest from the seating is kind of a waste. Personally I prefer to use the powerhouse as the main feature. It also adds the TR and port wind to the overall experience.



Thanks again Chuck I was thinking the same thing about the 4000ULF-TL and was remembering when Mark did the calibration we moved the subs all around the room to find the best location for the four units. He was very meticulous and was here around 13 hours so I’m certain that the four existing locations are the best for the room.

Plus that location places the monsters out in the room and I think will allow the port wind to be felt.

Here are some pictures; please excuse the mess.

Rear
Rear
Right side
Front
Left side
Left side
Right side SubMersive HP
Right Front SubMersive HP+ Master unit
Behind screen wall looking over to the right front SubMersive

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Last edited by giomania; 11-13-2019 at 07:44 PM.
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post #13689 of 13817 Old 11-13-2019, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post
thanks again chuck i was thinking the same thing about the 4000ulf-tl and was remembering when mark did the calibration we moved the subs all around the room to find the best location for the four units. He was very meticulous and was here around 13 hours so i’m certain that the four existing locations are the best for the room.

Plus that location places the monsters out in the room and i think will allow the port wind to be felt.
Argh, I meant to say that the 4000ULF-ST would work well... They are shallower and would fire into the room. The 4000ULF-TL would not work as they would protrude too much into the room. You also have sound panels.

Based on your pictures, it seems the Cap 4000ULF-STs (only 20.5" deep) upright would work really well placed behind the seats. You would need to move the surround speakers back a couple of inches though.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #13690 of 13817 Old 11-14-2019, 06:17 AM
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After a lot of thought and reading I've decided to stay ported and not go sealed.

Contemplating snagging (2) 1200XS to replace the Cap 1400 I have... Thoughts? How much more output would there be compared to a 1400?

I could easily fit those little guys into some corners. The wife wouldn't even notice.

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post #13691 of 13817 Old 11-14-2019, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Argh, I meant to say that the 4000ULF-ST would work well... They are shallower and would fire into the room. The 4000ULF-TL would not work as they would protrude too much into the room. You also have sound panels.

Based on your pictures, it seems the Cap 4000ULF-STs (only 20.5" deep) upright would work really well placed behind the seats. You would need to move the surround speakers back a couple of inches though.
I see that, based upon the dimensions, the 4000ULF-ST would work best. It is hard not having pictures of the ST and TL models on the JTR web site for reference. In order to not block the sound panels, what about placing them horizontally (laying down) and placing the surround speakers on top? I know you mentioned changing the acoustical center might cause issues.

Thanks.

Mark

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Originally Posted by irishluck73 View Post
After a lot of thought and reading I've decided to stay ported and not go sealed.

Contemplating snagging (2) 1200XS to replace the Cap 1400 I have... Thoughts? How much more output would there be compared to a 1400?

I could easily fit those little guys into some corners. The wife wouldn't even notice.
You better hurry...as of Yesterday there was only 2 left!!

It depends on where you are wanting more output. Below 16hz the pair of 1200XS would be substantially stronger(+10db depending on placement at 12hz). Above 30hz they likely will be close, slight advantage to the 1200XS.
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post #13693 of 13817 Old 11-14-2019, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post
I see that, based upon the dimensions, the 4000ULF-ST would work best. It is hard not having pictures of the ST and TL models on the JTR web site for reference. In order to not block the sound panels, what about placing them horizontally (laying down) and placing the surround speakers on top? I know you mentioned changing the acoustical center might cause issues.

Thanks.

Mark
The 4000ULF-ST:



4000ULF-ST in the wild: (Bassmojo's room)



4000ULF-TL:



4000ULF-TL in the wild:

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Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
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post #13694 of 13817 Old 11-14-2019, 08:34 AM
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Man that TL with a 3rd 18 in it would look Awesome!! That being said in 2019 nobody should be using a potato camera. lol
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You better hurry...as of Yesterday there was only 2 left!!
Is that because you bought some of them, or are you hoping someone will get the last 2, and save you from yourself?
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post #13696 of 13817 Old 11-14-2019, 09:13 AM
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Man that TL with a 3rd 18 in it would look Awesome!! That being said in 2019 nobody should be using a potato camera. lol
Haha, I know what you are saying.

Actually, I changed the contrast/lighting/mid tone level of the originals to better illustrate where the ports are.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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Is that because you bought some of them, or are you hoping someone will get the last 2, and save you from yourself?
Maybe both?
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What's the size of the Captivator RS2 in centimeter? My sofa is about 51cm from the wall behind.
Is RS2 sound different compared to the ported subs from JTR? Music and movie? Thanks for your time!
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post #13699 of 13817 Old 11-14-2019, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
You better hurry...as of Yesterday there was only 2 left!!

It depends on where you are wanting more output. Below 16hz the pair of 1200XS would be substantially stronger(+10db depending on placement at 12hz). Above 30hz they likely will be close, slight advantage to the 1200XS.
That's a huge increase down low! Now to talk to Jeff and find a buyer for my Cap 1400.

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Originally Posted by giomania View Post
Thanks again Chuck I was thinking the same thing about the 4000ULF-TL and was remembering when Mark did the calibration we moved the subs all around the room to find the best location for the four units. He was very meticulous and was here around 13 hours so I’m certain that the four existing locations are the best for the room.

Plus that location places the monsters out in the room and I think will allow the port wind to be felt.

Here are some pictures; please excuse the mess.

Rear
Rear
Right side
Front
Left side
Left side
Right side SubMersive HP
Right Front SubMersive HP+ Master unit
Behind screen wall looking over to the right front SubMersive

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
After some discussion off-line with @SOWK , I am now thinking to do the following:

Add two 4000ULF-LP or 4000ULF-ST behind the screen wall with the ports facing into the room.

Move the two SubMersive HP+ units (Master & Slave) to the rear wall of the room. I could use them under the existing rear surround speakers (as stands for those speakers) if that location on the rear wall proved to have best response in the rear of the room.

I would need two MiniDSP HD units, as I would have five subwoofer inputs.

This solution does not impede my existing room treatments on the side walls. I guess the one negative point to this is the SubMersive HP+ units (Master & Slave) would not be allowed independent settings in the MiniDSP.

I am also open to eliminating the SubMersives if it turns out they don't add anything to the experience, but maybe with six subwoofer locations in the room, the response will be better.

I welcome any input.

Mark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post
After some discussion off-line with @SOWK , I am now thinking to do the following:

Add two 4000ULF-LP or 4000ULF-ST behind the screen wall with the ports facing into the room.

Move the two SubMersive HP+ units (Master & Slave) to the rear wall of the room. I could use them under the existing rear surround speakers (as stands for those speakers) if that location on the rear wall proved to have best response in the rear of the room.

I would need two MiniDSP HD units, as I would have five subwoofer inputs.

This solution does not impede my existing room treatments on the side walls. I guess the one negative point to this is the SubMersive HP+ units (Master & Slave) would not be allowed independent settings in the MiniDSP.

I am also open to eliminating the SubMersives if it turns out they don't add anything to the experience, but maybe with six subwoofer locations in the room, the response will be better.

I welcome any input.

Mark
That could be a mistake.

Sell the submersives and buy another 4000 ULF.

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post #13702 of 13817 Old 11-14-2019, 01:22 PM
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Thanks. If I kept the SubMersives, and added two 4000ULFs, I would need five outputs, unless you recommending splitting some of the MiniDSP output connections?

I wish they had an updated balanced model.

Mark

Whatever you decide to group together (SubM or 4k) can use the same signal.

Besides, unless I'm missing something (very possible), you have two master slave Sub Ms. They only need 2 signals. (The slave can't accept a different signal.) You are adding two 4ks. That's 4 signals. Where are you getting 5 from?
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Originally Posted by zeus33 View Post
Whatever you decide to group together (SubM or 4k) can use the same signal.

Besides, unless I'm missing something (very possible), you have two master slave Sub Ms. They only need 2 signals. (The slave can't accept a different signal.) You are adding two 4ks. That's 4 signals. Where are you getting 5 from?
These were also my thoughts. If the subs are co-located even remotely close to each other or are equidistant from the listening position and placed symmetrically in your symmetrical room, you could effectively consider them a "Single" sub and only use one output from the mini. If the subM's are literally stacked on top of each other, then they definitely should only be considered a single sub.
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post #13704 of 13817 Old 11-14-2019, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus33 View Post
Whatever you decide to group together (SubM or 4k) can use the same signal.



Besides, unless I'm missing something (very possible), you have two master slave Sub Ms. They only need 2 signals. (The slave can't accept a different signal.) You are adding two 4ks. That's 4 signals. Where are you getting 5 from?


I currently have the following:

1 SubMersive HP+ Master (1 signal)

1 SubMersive HP+ Slave

1 SubMersive HP (1 signal)

1 SubMersive HP (1 signal)


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post #13705 of 13817 Old 11-14-2019, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by giomania View Post
I currently have the following....


OK, gotcha. The grouping will still work though. As BA mentioned, anything that is close together can use the same signal.
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post #13706 of 13817 Old 11-14-2019, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
These were also my thoughts. If the subs are co-located even remotely close to each other or are equidistant from the listening position and placed symmetrically in your symmetrical room, you could effectively consider them a "Single" sub and only use one output from the mini. If the subM's are literally stacked on top of each other, then they definitely should only be considered a single sub.


Thanks gents,

I am thinking they will be equidistant, so I can use one MiniDSP HD; good news!

Any recommendations for decent XLR to RCA adapters?

My cables inside the conduit that run to the subs are XLR that I made with Neutrik connectors and Belden cable.

I am currently using all balanced XLR outputs on the Marantz AV8805, so not sure if I should start with RCA from the 8805 to the MiniDSP and then convert to XLR for the runs to the subs.

Mark


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post #13707 of 13817 Old 11-14-2019, 05:51 PM
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post #13708 of 13817 Old 11-17-2019, 04:49 PM
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Anyone know if it’s possible to get a RS1 or RS2 i a a veneer?

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post #13709 of 13817 Old 11-17-2019, 05:02 PM
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Anyone know if it’s possible to get a RS1 or RS2 i a a veneer?
My understanding is you can get pretty much any veneer or paint job on a JTR subwoofer or speaker, just contact Jeff.

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post #13710 of 13817 Old 11-17-2019, 05:07 PM
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Does anyone have any pics of the RS1 in the wild?

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