Official JTR Speakers Subwoofer Thread - Page 480 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #14371 of 14446 Old 03-26-2020, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Not that I know of. You should ask Jeff.

Every time you double the amplification, you gain 3dB. Therefore in upgrading from 2400W amps to 3200W amps, you gain 1dB. In other words, not worth it in my book.

The 240V amp options are offered more towards customers in parts of the world with 240V. If you don't already have 240V circuits, you can't really take advantage of the increased power.
Do you know if the 6KW option on the Cap4000 uses the same amp as the 4KW amp and gets the extra power from the 220V vs. 110? I've seen numerous examples of that kind of thing. I'm curious if there might be a simple upgrade, like maybe mainly rewiring.
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post #14372 of 14446 Old 03-26-2020, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
I am fine.

Actually I said:



When we were watching Interstellar - black hole scene at his place @ -15dB MV...

Ethos4Lyfe: Can you hear it now?
Girlfriend: Nope, not really...
Then Ethos4Lyfe received a text from the person living in the rear house: "Are you f***ing kidding me? The whole house is shaking!"

That's why I said he doesn't need JTR subs for now.
ahh fun times
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Subwoofer: Rythmik G25HPSE (serial #00002)
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post #14373 of 14446 Old 03-26-2020, 12:57 PM
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Oh ok thats good it wont bother me anymore thanks chucky I dont have space for the 4000ulf but when I move to a bigger house Ill be adding a 4000ulf or the 6000 to the mix
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post #14374 of 14446 Old 03-26-2020, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mechtheist View Post
Do you know if the 6KW option on the Cap4000 uses the same amp as the 4KW amp and gets the extra power from the 220V vs. 110? I've seen numerous examples of that kind of thing. I'm curious if there might be a simple upgrade, like maybe mainly rewiring.
It's a different amp plate.

The 6KW option uses the 240V SpeakerPower SP1-6000-HT amp plate which costs $340 more than the stock 120V 4KW SpeakerPower SP1-4000-HT amp plate. Hence the $300 upcharge listed on JTR site.



SpeakerPower SP1-6000-HT: https://www.speakerpower.net/store/p30/SP1-6000-HT.html
SpeakerPower SP1-4000-HT: https://www.speakerpower.net/store/p28/SP1-4000-HT.html

Similarly, the 3200W option uses the 240V SpeakerPower SP1-3200-HT amp plate which costs $300? more than the stock 2400W SpeakerPower SP1-2400-HT amp plate. Hence the $300 upcharge listed on JTR site.
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Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 03-26-2020 at 04:45 PM.
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post #14375 of 14446 Old 03-26-2020, 05:13 PM
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Official JTR Speakers Subwoofer Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
It's a different amp plate.

The 6KW option uses the 240V SpeakerPower SP1-6000-HT amp plate which costs $340 more than the stock 120V 4KW SpeakerPower SP1-4000-HT amp plate. Hence the $300 upcharge listed on JTR site.



SpeakerPower SP1-6000-HT: https://www.speakerpower.net/store/p30/SP1-6000-HT.html
SpeakerPower SP1-4000-HT: https://www.speakerpower.net/store/p28/SP1-4000-HT.html

Similarly, the 3200W option uses the 240V SpeakerPower SP1-3200-HT amp plate which costs $300? more than the stock 2400W SpeakerPower SP1-2400-HT amp plate. Hence the $300 upcharge listed on JTR site.


And I think it provides something like an extra dB overall, but at those volumes your foundation is crumbling and walls are caving in around you.
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post #14376 of 14446 Old 03-26-2020, 05:38 PM
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Is a dedicated 20amp circuit ample to run 2x Cap 2400 on?
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post #14377 of 14446 Old 03-26-2020, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M0ltar View Post
And I think it provides something like an extra dB overall, but at those volumes your foundation is crumbling and walls are caving in around you.
The 6000W amp provides around 1.5dB more output vs the 4000W amp.

It really depends on where you are coming from.

If I already have 240V circuits in the HT, and I want to get the most out of my Cap 4000ULF, the $300 upcharge (7% price increase), would yield 1.5dB (25% more) more headroom. Then there are people who say that a couple dB won't be noticeable.

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Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #14378 of 14446 Old 03-26-2020, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acribb View Post
Is a dedicated 20amp circuit ample to run 2x Cap 2400 on?
Yes.

My HT is in my family room off the kitchen. I run everything (the Cap 4000, TV, AVR, etc) from one non-dedicated circuit. I have never had a problem.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #14379 of 14446 Old 03-26-2020, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acribb View Post
Is a dedicated 20amp circuit ample to run 2x Cap 2400 on?
It would be surprising if you tripped the breaker with music, breakers are usually slow to blow if not dealing with a massive over-current like a short. If you're going to run a new circuit, I highly recommend running a 3-wire circuit, the wire is hardly more expensive and the extra labor is negligible and you end up with 2 120V circuits that will have lower voltage drop when both are loaded. Plus, you can have a 220V circuit on the same wiring if you need one down the road.
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post #14380 of 14446 Old 03-26-2020, 09:44 PM
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Many people underestimate the amount of current to trip the breaker:

Bass is transient. This following clip (Olympus Has Fallen - Washington Monument scene) has the longest hot ULF content: 20 seconds of hot 18Hz.


Most hot bass in the other demo clips last a few seconds tops.

If you look at a circuit breaker trip curves


A typical circuit breaker won't trip passing through 1.5 times the current for 40 seconds, or 2 times the current for 10 seconds.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 03-26-2020 at 10:10 PM.
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post #14381 of 14446 Old 03-26-2020, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Many people underestimate the amount of current to trip the breaker:

Bass is transient. This following clip (Olympus Has Fallen - Washington Monument scene) has the longest hot ULF content: 20 seconds of hot 18Hz.

https://youtu.be/3V266iUUxSE

Most of the hot bass content last a few seconds.

If you look at a circuit breaker trip curves


A typical circuit breaker won't trip passing through 1.5 times the current for 40 seconds, or 2 times the current for 10 seconds.
I can trip my breaker running above reference. I have 2 dedicated 20 amp circuits. I wonder if something is up with my electrical. These JTR subs draw a lot more power than the Rythmiks, these amps are beefy!

Greg
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post #14382 of 14446 Old 03-26-2020, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by muscles View Post
I can trip my breaker running above reference. I have 2 dedicated 20 amp circuits. I wonder if something is up with my electrical. These JTR subs draw a lot more power than the Rythmiks, these amps are beefy!

Greg

most homes are wired all cheap. pro installers have the wiring even if split between rooms where if one room pops none of the others do. maybe the pro's will pipe in, but I have a guy, who laughs at most throw up homes electrical.
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post #14383 of 14446 Old 03-26-2020, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by muscles View Post
I can trip my breaker running above reference. I have 2 dedicated 20 amp circuits. I wonder if something is up with my electrical. These JTR subs draw a lot more power than the Rythmiks, these amps are beefy!

Greg
Better get your electrician out as somethings very wrong if your tripping 2 dedicated 20 amp circuits!
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post #14384 of 14446 Old 03-26-2020, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post
Better get your electrician out as somethings very wrong if your tripping 2 dedicated 20 amp circuits!
I tripped them one time. I think at the time I had 4 subs. I do see some lights dim when things get to reference and the bass is very low. This house isn't made the best either. I think its time I have an expert come over here and look it over.

Greg

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post #14385 of 14446 Old 03-26-2020, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Many people underestimate the amount of current to trip the breaker:

If you look at a circuit breaker trip curves


A typical circuit breaker won't trip passing through 1.5 times the current for 40 seconds, or 2 times the current for 10 seconds.
Interesting, it looks like you should be able to go upwards of 15% over-current forever and not trip.
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post #14386 of 14446 Old 03-26-2020, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muscles View Post
I tripped them one time. I think at the time I had 4 subs. I do see some lights dim when things get to reference and the bass is very low. This house isn't made the best either. I think its time I have an expert come over here and look it over.

Greg
Is it a newer Arc fault circuit breaker? They are known to be sometimes sensitive. My home is older and my 2 dedicated lines 20amp 10awg and 20amp 12awg don't so much as break a sweat at just above reference, but perhaps 4 subs going full tilt may get a shimmer
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post #14387 of 14446 Old 03-27-2020, 04:15 AM
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I've got 3 dedicated 20amp 12 gauge circuits for my theater equipment. Lights and everything else that was already in this space before I made it a theater is on a 15amp circuit. Sounds like I will be ok using one of these dedicated circuits for 2x Cap 2400. The other two dedicated are split between the projector, Denon 4400, 3x Outlaw 2200 monoblocks and the Blu-ray player, TiVo and Apple TV. Would it increase performance at all by having each Cap 2400 on its own dedicated 20amp circuit or is this not needed? How do I measure the draw on a circuit?
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In some cases, The more subs you run the less chance there is to trip a breaker because you are trading woofer displacement to hit a target SPL in place of AMP power. So 2 subs will use less amperage to hit reference level opposed to a single. For example if you had to run a single JTR 2400 at full power (2400 watts) to hit reference in your room, with 2 2400's you could do that with roughly 1200 watts being more cones increase efficiency. Now obviously if you run both subs at max output then yea you will be using more amps, but most of us are not pushing multiple subs to their limits very often.
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post #14389 of 14446 Old 03-27-2020, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acribb View Post
I've got 3 dedicated 20amp 12 gauge circuits for my theater equipment. Lights and everything else that was already in this space before I made it a theater is on a 15amp circuit. Sounds like I will be ok using one of these dedicated circuits for 2x Cap 2400. The other two dedicated are split between the projector, Denon 4400, 3x Outlaw 2200 monoblocks and the Blu-ray player, TiVo and Apple TV. Would it increase performance at all by having each Cap 2400 on its own dedicated 20amp circuit or is this not needed? How do I measure the draw on a circuit?
Two easy ways, get a clamp meter





But you'll need a gizmo to separate the wires. Probably easiest is one of these guys:

That's about $12-15 on amazon, search 'power meter'
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post #14390 of 14446 Old 03-27-2020, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
In some cases, The more subs you run the less chance there is to trip a breaker because you are trading woofer displacement to hit a target SPL in place of AMP power. So 2 subs will use less amperage to hit reference level opposed to a single. For example if you had to run a single JTR 2400 at full power (2400 watts) to hit reference in your room, with 2 2400's you could do that with roughly 1200 watts being more cones increase efficiency. Now obviously if you run both subs at max output then yea you will be using more amps, but most of us are not pushing multiple subs to their limits very often.
Many people forget this. I ran 8 18s on one FP14000 and it was fine 12 dB over reference on a 20 amp breaker. It was only when I boosted under 20hz 6dB per octave that it could trip the breaker and only on movies like FoTP barrel roll and Lone Survivor chopper scene because they lasted so long. Without those two scenes they were good to go. The speakepower amps are more efficient than my clone was.

Building the room, speakers, and subs.
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took delivery of the cap 4000 today. it was interesting to say the least getting it into the basement (really not looking forward to doing that again). it was much more difficult to move & handle than the rythmik fv25's, not only because of the weight but the larger size. i'll move it to its final resting place and play with it later tonight. pics!











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post #14392 of 14446 Old 03-27-2020, 05:36 PM
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Knowing you're going to soon be listening to them should make the chore more palletable.
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post #14393 of 14446 Old 03-27-2020, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by serith View Post
took delivery of the cap 4000 today. it was interesting to say the least getting it into the basement (really not looking forward to doing that again). it was much more difficult to move & handle than the rythmik fv25's, not only because of the weight but the larger size. i'll move it to its final resting place and play with it later tonight. pics!


That last pic of the sub is sooo imposing. Love it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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post #14394 of 14446 Old 03-27-2020, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serith View Post
Took delivery of the Cap 4000 today. It was interesting to say the least getting it into the basement (really not looking forward to doing that again). It was much more difficult to move & handle than the rythmik fv25's, not only because of the weight but the larger size. I'll move it to its final resting place and play with it later tonight. pics!
Congratulations!

Welcome to the JTR family!

It's about time. Now you don't have to wonder anymore.

I am so happy for you!

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #14395 of 14446 Old 03-28-2020, 04:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serith View Post
took delivery of the cap 4000 today. it was interesting to say the least getting it into the basement (really not looking forward to doing that again). it was much more difficult to move & handle than the rythmik fv25's, not only because of the weight but the larger size. i'll move it to its final resting place and play with it later tonight. pics!











Congratulations! I have one on the way too.

And we are sort of neighbors, you are the closest person to me that I have noticed on here.

The beer choice is a good one too, one of my favorites.

After you get it set up, let me know your thoughts, any pros and cons, tweaking tips, etc. this is going to be my first real subwoofer, the other one came with a theater in a box set years ago.
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@wnydel2 ,
I have a satellite office on Transit rd I frequent 2 times per month. We have to get together one time after this mess.
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post #14397 of 14446 Old 03-28-2020, 07:11 AM
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Guys I remember seeing a quick setup and calibration guide for JTR subs but I can’t remember where it was, can anyone send me a link?

Thanks

Theater 1.0- The Foreclosure Theater: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-de...theater-4.html
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@wnydel2 ,
I have a satellite office on Transit rd I frequent 2 times per month. We have to get together one time after this mess.
That sounds great. I’m looking so forward to this being over and I would love to get together then.
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post #14399 of 14446 Old 03-28-2020, 07:38 AM
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Guys I remember seeing a quick setup and calibration guide for JTR subs but I can’t remember where it was, can anyone send me a link?

Thanks
Below is the guide for the initial subwoofer set up with Denon AVR's Audyssey.

Flow chart:

1. Adjust the settings on sub amp plate.
2. AVR auto calibration.
3. Post auto calibration adjustments

The LF Adjust acts as an equalizer that controls the ultra low frequencies. JTR's setting is, with LF Adjust @ Cut, it has the least low end. With the LF Adjust @ Boost, it has the most low end.

On your subs, start with the both Gains @ 12 o'clock, the Cap 2400's LF Adjust @ cut, the Crossover @ 120 Hz/Out, the Delay @ 0 ms, the RCA input @ left. This means that you are letting your AVR set the crossover, delay, and etc.

Proceed with Audyssey where it sets the level/phase/distance for your speakers and sub. At the beginning, Audyssey will let you know if you have your sub gain level set properly. It asked me to turn down the sub's gain. So I went to SW Level Matching, and adjusted the sub's gain until it reads 84 to 85dB. Then proceeded with Audyssey sending chirps to your speakers. At the end of auto calibration, I chose NO for Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume.

Then go to Setup - Speakers - Manual Setup

In speaker config, front, center, and surround should be changed to small.

In level, test tone start, subwoofer1 should be -11dB ~ -9dB. You can add 3db to 6db here.

In crossover, if Front, Center, and Surround were set at lower than 80Hz, change that to 80Hz.

Then exit Audyssey.

Audyssey generally sets the sub level too low. This is why I have recommended adding 3 to 6 dB above. I can also increase the sub's gain.

As for the LF Adjust, turn it up to taste.

Then I would go to Setup - Audio.

In Dialogue Level Adjust, Default is Off. "Off" is equal to "ON and -6dB". Therefore, if I set it to "ON and -3dB" the center channel is 3db hotter than the other channels.

In Volume, Scale, I would change it to -79.5dB ~ -18dB.

In Audyssey, MultEQ XT 32, default should be Reference. I prefer Flat.
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Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #14400 of 14446 Old 03-28-2020, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by serith View Post
took delivery of the cap 4000 today. it was interesting to say the least getting it into the basement (really not looking forward to doing that again). it was much more difficult to move & handle than the rythmik fv25's, not only because of the weight but the larger size. i'll move it to its final resting place and play with it later tonight. pics!


This pic should be on JTR's website! Great pic and congrats!!
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