Official JTR Speakers Subwoofer Thread - Page 493 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #14761 of 15280 Old 04-28-2020, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by drh3b View Post
I think that's a bit unfair. I think he gives his honest opinion, whether you agree with it or not is another thing. JTR speakers will play much louder than SVS, which is important to him. Knowing how he listens to music(kind of like me) the SVS probably can't play loudly enough cleanly for him. At lower levels, I'm sure they're fine.
I know Muscles took a little dump in the PSA thread(not all his fault), please forgive him. That's really the only time I've ever seen him be anything but pleasant.
FWIW, I do appreciate peoples candidness, I just think this one is a bit off base. Though, he claims to have owned the same gear, so maybe not. I don't listen at reference, rather closer to -10 and I find it's plenty loud, nothing distorts or breaks apart. When playing at reference, same thing. I would be curious to know what amps (AVR) or power amp, he was using.
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post #14762 of 15280 Old 04-28-2020, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
I agree with this. I had compared many speakers when I was shopping for my speakers including the SVS ultras. Ended up with PSA MTM 210s. Not to the quality of the JTR but similar in what they offer. I can tell you what a difference they have made to my HT experience. What Greg is saying is that you should be covered in the bass department and your mains are likely not being able to keep up with the subs any ways. Adding more bass horsepower will likely increase that discrepancy. With a UMIK and REW as I said earlier you can see what is going in your room with the subs and the mains.
I too agree with this and is on my shopping list. With that said, my mains are not lacking in any sense. I just crave that ultra low end and the PB16s fall off pretty quickly.

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post #14763 of 15280 Old 04-28-2020, 08:01 AM
 
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Originally Posted by drh3b View Post
I think that's a bit unfair. I think he gives his honest opinion, whether you agree with it or not is another thing. JTR speakers will play much louder than SVS, which is important to him. Knowing how he listens to music(kind of like me) the SVS probably can't play loudly enough cleanly for him. At lower levels, I'm sure they're fine.

I know Muscles took a little dump in the PSA thread(not all his fault), please forgive him. That's really the only time I've ever seen him be anything but pleasant.
I appreciate you adding some perspective. You can give an honest opinion without making someone feel like dirt it requires more thought and time but you can definitely do it. Following your posts for some time now you have that ability and you choose to exercise it . I have seen some of his comments in other threads as well he is generally a negative guy at least on AVS forum. He seems to lack the tact when it comes to disagreeing with others that is often helpful when trying to ingratiate yourself into a community. I will just leave it at that.

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post #14764 of 15280 Old 04-28-2020, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by vinnie123 View Post
FWIW, I do appreciate peoples candidness, I just think this one is a bit off base. Though, he claims to have owned the same gear, so maybe not. I don't listen at reference, rather closer to -10 and I find it's plenty loud, nothing distorts or breaks apart. When playing at reference, same thing. I would be curious to know what amps (AVR) or power amp, he was using.
Muscles has had a ton of equipment over the last few years, there is no way to keep up with it. I probably shouldn't even speak for him, but I'm pretty sure he often, if not always, listens very loudly, more loudly than you, and JTR speakers are probably perfect for him. He also had huge, expensive Martin Logans for a while, and they weren't enough, either.
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post #14765 of 15280 Old 04-28-2020, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by drh3b View Post
I think that's a bit unfair. I think he gives his honest opinion, whether you agree with it or not is another thing. JTR speakers will play much louder than SVS, which is important to him. Knowing how he listens to music(kind of like me) the SVS probably can't play loudly enough cleanly for him. At lower levels, I'm sure they're fine.
I know Muscles took a little dump in the PSA thread(not all his fault), please forgive him. That's really the only time I've ever seen him be anything but pleasant.
That's funny, I said if one of two amps/preamps sounded dramatically different, there was likely something wrong with one of them. I provided sources and quotes on the importance of double blind testing, everything I said was deemed 'nonsense' and 'drivel' and 'anecdotal' by muscles, his evidence was that he could hear a difference and so could people he brought to his house [surely they wouldn't be influenced by his gushing over how great this equipment was] and everyone in the forum for his piece of equipment that sounded better, all the very definition of 'anecdotal'. To me, that ain't exactly pleasant and it's dishonest to accuse someone of something you did and then refuse to acknowledge your mistake when called out on it, it's not a 'pleasant' a way to behave either, at least that's how I see things.
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post #14766 of 15280 Old 04-28-2020, 08:30 AM
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It was not my intent to turn this into a deposition on @muscles . Really, I just want advice on what route to proceed for my SUBS.

- Keep 3x PB16 and be happy with what I have. Don't get me wrong, I am happy for the most part, I just crave more low end at higher volumes (~ -10 master volume) without it falling off a bit. I think we can agree that most non enthusiasts like us, would say the PB16s are overkill.

- Sell 2x PB16 and purchase 1x CAP 4000 ULF. The costs would be a wash in the end but have undesirable placement

- Sell 2x PB16 and purchase 2x CAP 2400 ULF so they fit better in my space, under the screen. This would cost money out of pocket and I'm still of the belief (and looks like the numbers back it up) that 2x CAP2400 do not equal the output and low end of 1x CAP4000.

In all scenarios, I am keeping 1x PB16 for behind my MLP.
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Speakers: SVS Ultra Towers, Center, Side Surround, Rear Bookshelf in 7.2.4
Subwoofers: 3x SVS PB16 | Funk Audio 24" LFE (on order)
Pre/Pro: Marantz AV7705. Power Amps: Emotiva XPA-5 and Emotiva XPA-6
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post #14767 of 15280 Old 04-28-2020, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by mechtheist View Post
That's funny, I said if one of two amps/preamps sounded dramatically different, there was likely something wrong with one of them. I provided sources and quotes on the importance of double blind testing, everything I said was deemed 'nonsense' and 'drivel' and 'anecdotal' by muscles, his evidence was that he could hear a difference and so could people he brought to his house [surely they wouldn't be influenced by his gushing over how great this equipment was] and everyone in the forum for his piece of equipment that sounded better, all the very definition of 'anecdotal'. To me, that ain't exactly pleasant and it's dishonest to accuse someone of something you did and then refuse to acknowledge your mistake when called out on it, it's not a 'pleasant' a way to behave either, at least that's how I see things.
Audiophiles get cranky when challenged on stuff like that. I personally wouldn't even have that conversation as it's the kind of thing where you can't change minds and people get mad. I'm on your side on that one, though, and am not above leaving the occasional snide one liner when topics like that come up.

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post #14768 of 15280 Old 04-28-2020, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by drh3b View Post
Audiophiles get cranky when challenged on stuff like that. I personally wouldn't even have that conversation as it's the kind of thing where you can't change minds and people get mad. I'm on your side on that one, though, and am not above leaving the occasional snide one liner when topics like that come up.
I completely agree and said from the first involved post an argument would be futile. I too prefer the snide over the overt, it cuts deeper and they often don't even realize how badly they've been wounded.
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post #14769 of 15280 Old 04-28-2020, 08:43 AM
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It was not my intent to turn this into a deposition on @muscles . Really, I just want advice on what route to proceed for my SUBS.

- Keep 3x PB16 and be happy with what I have. Don't get me wrong, I am happy for the most part, I just crave more low end at higher volumes (~ -10 master volume) without it falling off a bit. I think we can agree that most non enthusiasts like us, would say the PB16s are overkill.

- Sell 2x PB16 and purchase 1x CAP 4000 ULF. The costs would be a wash in the end but have undesirable placement

- Sell 2x PB16 and purchase 2x CAP 2400 ULF so they fit better in my space, under the screen. This would cost money out of pocket and I'm still of the belief (and looks like the numbers back it up) that 2x CAP2400 do not equal the output and low end of 1x CAP4000.
I would opt for dual 2400's for better placement flexibility and room coverage. Seems to make more sense then buying 1 large sub and placing it in a poor location.
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post #14770 of 15280 Old 04-28-2020, 08:48 AM
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It was not my intent to turn this into a deposition on @muscles . Really, I just want advice on what route to proceed for my SUBS.

- Keep 3x PB16 and be happy with what I have. Don't get me wrong, I am happy for the most part, I just crave more low end at higher volumes (~ -10 master volume) without it falling off a bit. I think we can agree that most non enthusiasts like us, would say the PB16s are overkill.

- Sell 2x PB16 and purchase 1x CAP 4000 ULF. The costs would be a wash in the end but have undesirable placement

- Sell 2x PB16 and purchase 2x CAP 2400 ULF so they fit better in my space, under the screen. This would cost money out of pocket and I'm still of the belief (and looks like the numbers back it up) that 2x CAP2400 do not equal the output and low end of 1x CAP4000.

In all scenarios, I am keeping 1x PB16 for behind my MLP.
Sorry for repeating myself again, but are you totally opposed to getting a UMIK and REW to show us what your room response looks like with your current subs? You will be using the same locations for new ones to some extent so would be good to see before you drop coin like that. If you are against that then its your money, I vote 4 cap 4000s....

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post #14771 of 15280 Old 04-28-2020, 08:57 AM
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Sorry for repeating myself again, but are you totally opposed to getting a UMIK and REW to show us what your room response looks like with your current subs? You will be using the same locations for new ones to some extent so would be good to see before you drop coin like that. If you are against that then its your money, I vote 4 cap 4000s....
Sorry I thought I responded to this.... a UMIK will be ordered shortly. I guess I'm trying to get opinions without numbers in the interim. I also struggle with the idea of REW since I will not be moving the subs due to space limitations. Now, a Mini DSP with EQ adjustments is a whole other story. Again, the 16s aren't lacking, I just crave a bit more low end =)

With that said, those who I have talked to that went from PB16s to JTR 4000 ULF say that it's night and day, despite placement.

Example as follows, and after reading this....how can you be anything but amped to make this jump?

"Yes the dual 18’s of the CAP4000 ULF will play louder than the dual 16’s. Larger diameter, more efficient drivers, more power

But besides just playing louder the jtr’s play much deeper, when I did all my In room measurements at 10-12 hz it would of taken roughly 10 pb16’s to match one jtr,

I won’t speak bad of svs I really did enjoy my pb16’s and were a lot of fun but they really seemed like toys after the 4000 showed up, if you want that deep bass impact the jtr is the ticket"

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Subwoofers: 3x SVS PB16 | Funk Audio 24" LFE (on order)
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post #14772 of 15280 Old 04-28-2020, 09:12 AM
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Sorry I thought I responded to this.... a UMIK will be ordered shortly. I guess I'm trying to get opinions without numbers in the interim. I also struggle with the idea of REW since I will not be moving the subs due to space limitations. Now, a Mini DSP with EQ adjustments is a whole other story. Again, the 16s aren't lacking, I just crave a bit more low end =)

With that said, those who I have talked to that went from PB16s to JTR 4000 ULF say that it's night and day, despite placement.

Example as follows, and after reading this....how can you be anything but amped to make this jump?

"Yes the dual 18’s of the CAP4000 ULF will play louder than the dual 16’s. Larger diameter, more efficient drivers, more power

But besides just playing louder the jtr’s play much deeper, when I did all my In room measurements at 10-12 hz it would of taken roughly 10 pb16’s to match one jtr,

I won’t speak bad of svs I really did enjoy my pb16’s and were a lot of fun but they really seemed like toys after the 4000 showed up, if you want that deep bass impact the jtr is the ticket"
Sub placement is really important, that said, I've seen tons of folks' systems and in the vast majority of them, the subs are put right where you'd put them for looks or where they'd have to go due to space. FFS, who wants to shove one of those things all over your room and find a great position that's simply impossible practically, my back is screwed up enough.


I too had a pb16, it's a great sub but then the 4000ULF came along... The phone app is really nice though.
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post #14773 of 15280 Old 04-28-2020, 09:12 AM
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1. Great discussion & thank you for clarification - basically, any difference is NOT caused by the different amps (class D versus AB?), per se? It's the DSP high pass filter that causes the delay?

2. Having said that, what @chucky7 wrote about the 7 ms delay is still true (this info is important in system setup).
1. The amp isn't really the issue, the DSP is the issue. For example, the DBX PA 2 has a latency of 1.847 ms before any filters. The miniDSP 2x4's latency is 1.2 ms before any filters.The topology of the filter used affects the additional delay. One company's total delay for a SpeakerPower amp can be greatly different than another company's depending on what filters they used.

2. My Captivator S2's have a delay of 4.5 ms. Ported subwoofers have a longer delay due to their high pass filter. I realize you think this is important for system setup, but actual measurements I make during calibration are used and I don't really need to know anything about the inherent latency of the subwoofer amplifier/DSP. With that said, it can be very important for system design. If you have a 4000ULF your delay might be 7.5 ms, add in a miniDSP with a few filters and you add another 5-20 ms. You need a receiver or processor can can delay the mains enough to account for all the delay in the subs. I've mentioned this before, but Marantz and Denon limit their total delay to 20 ms and thus make it nearly impossible to correctly calibrate a subwoofer system with external DSP like the miniDSP.
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post #14774 of 15280 Old 04-28-2020, 10:20 AM
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Thanks for your input, it is appreciated. The entrance way is on the left, a few feet away from my left speaker so space is a bit of an issue on that side. I agree tho, I want a clear path to my MLP and putting it where my cabinet is, is less than ideal as the bottom driver would be partial blocked by the couch nearby.

I measured, and if I raise my screen 1.5 inches I should be able to fit a 4000 on it's side, with the center on top. It's gonna look UGLY tho..

If anything, I am more confused on what to do now, one 4000 or two 2400s. Again, pricing for one cap is much better than two 2400s.

@muscles basically called my mains crap, which is the first time I'm hearing that. I agree the SVS speakers are not efficient but they are also driven by an Emotiva XPA-6, so they're not lacking power. I fully realize Emotiva aren't near the best amps but they're no slouch either.
There is really no perfect solution in your case.

The SVS speakers are not as bad as muscles said. However, I think you can get better speakers than SVS for the money.

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post #14775 of 15280 Old 04-28-2020, 10:27 AM
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Let me summarize again all in one place for everyone to see.

Denon 4400 AVR Sub trim at -6dB both channels brought up from -12dB that Audyssey gave me on calibration.
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Probably not related at all, but -12db is the most that Denon will reduce gain during level matching. This could mean that the sub was 12 db hot relative to the other channels, but it could also mean the sub is 20 db hot relative to the other channels.
I concur with @chucks0 's statement here. If Audy is showing -12db post cal. you have your gain setting too hot. Try to reduce it where it falls just short of the -12 max post Audy. Somewhere between -10 to -11 is ideal, and then you have room to bump the AVR's trim level 5-6db from there if necessary.
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post #14776 of 15280 Old 04-28-2020, 11:00 AM
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I completely agree and said from the first involved post an argument would be futile. I too prefer the snide over the overt, it cuts deeper and they often don't even realize how badly they've been wounded.

Wounded? What do I care what someone thinks or says? I buy what I want and like what I like, that's the end of it right there. I am by no means an "audiophile". I honestly don't really remember talking about this, so it didn't really bother me that much. I give an honest opinion on the stuff I have tried. I have never been a brand junkie, I have jumped all kinds of brands over the years. I have had Klipsch RF7's, Martin Logan 13a's and Ethos, SVS Ultras, hell I still have an SB13 in my bedroom system.



I don't want to argue with you, because I don't really know you. I will enjoy my system, you can enjoy your statistics and charts. If it makes you feel better that you "won" a debate with me, than congrats man, enjoy the feeling. I am just going to go downstairs and turn on my overpriced "audiophile" Mcintosh system and enjoy the HELL OUT OF IT!


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post #14777 of 15280 Old 04-28-2020, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by skylarlove1999 View Post
Muscles just likes to pick apart everything he doesn't like or own. Don't take it personally. You have a great setup. SVS makes fantastic products. There are always people overpaying for the extra 5% of performance. Price to performance for speakers, SVS is a great proposition. JTR makes amazing speakers and subwoofers. Muscles is a big fan of JTR.

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This is not true. I have owned the SVS Ultra line, they are on my YouTube channel! I didn't say they were awful, just a bit weak for HT. 88db sensitivity and max power handling of 300 watts. You have to keep in mind that its a 999$ speaker with a shipping/freight built into that price (they offer free returns as well) so some corners have been cut. Did I hate the speakers, no. They are fine for what they are. I can assure you that the delta in performance from SVS Ultra Series to JTR Reference series is more than a 5% delta, how one would actually quantify it, I have no idea. The 212RTs have added a level to the midbass in my movie viewing that added a whole new world of impact. Having mains that can keep up with your subs is important.



P.S. I have owned like 8 different SVS subs as well, I am not a JTR fanboy, but I would be crazy to not be a JTR fan.



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post #14778 of 15280 Old 04-28-2020, 11:34 AM
 
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This is not true. I have owned the SVS Ultra line, they are on my YouTube channel! I didn't say they were awful, just a bit weak for HT. 88db sensitivity and max power handling of 300 watts. You have to keep in mind that its a 999$ speaker with a shipping/freight built into that price (they offer free returns as well) so some corners have been cut. Did I hate the speakers, no. They are fine for what they are. I can assure you that the delta in performance from SVS Ultra Series to JTR Reference series is more than a 5% delta, how one would actually quantify it, I have no idea. The 212RTs have added a level to the midbass in my movie viewing that added a whole new world of impact. Having mains that can keep up with your subs is important.



P.S. I have owned like 8 different SVS subs as well, I am not a JTR fanboy, but I would be crazy to not be a JTR fan.



Greg






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The JTR speakers are definitely a huge step up from the SVS Ultra line. You are absolutely correct the performance over the SVS Ultra line is way more than 5%. I was speaking in generalities about some of the speakers that people rave about being so much better when in actuality they are paying for the name and the finish of the speakers. Jeff puts his money into the components and not the finish and the two times I have heard his Noesis 212's in person it was on a whole different level than any speaker I have heard. I do like the industrial look. Others don't. For the price the SVS provides a great home theater experience. You are direct and matter of fact when you deliver your opinions. I am sure there are plenty of people who appreciate that in person because they can see your body language and facial expressions to ascertain whether or not you were truly being mean spirited or simply providing your take on things. In a written form with no other visual cues , direct people can sometimes come off as insensitive know it alls. Not saying you are . Just giving my perspective as you like to do. Thanks for clarifying. I appreciate you doing so when you didn't have to do that.

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post #14779 of 15280 Old 04-28-2020, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by vinnie123 View Post
Sorry I thought I responded to this.... a UMIK will be ordered shortly. I guess I'm trying to get opinions without numbers in the interim. I also struggle with the idea of REW since I will not be moving the subs due to space limitations. Now, a Mini DSP with EQ adjustments is a whole other story. Again, the 16s aren't lacking, I just crave a bit more low end =)



With that said, those who I have talked to that went from PB16s to JTR 4000 ULF say that it's night and day, despite placement.



Example as follows, and after reading this....how can you be anything but amped to make this jump?



"Yes the dual 18’s of the CAP4000 ULF will play louder than the dual 16’s. Larger diameter, more efficient drivers, more power



But besides just playing louder the jtr’s play much deeper, when I did all my In room measurements at 10-12 hz it would of taken roughly 10 pb16’s to match one jtr,



I won’t speak bad of svs I really did enjoy my pb16’s and were a lot of fun but they really seemed like toys after the 4000 showed up, if you want that deep bass impact the jtr is the ticket"

Since you’re unable to move the subwoofers, you should probably consider getting a mini DSP 2x4HD, and then use the Multi-Sub Optimizer program to create the PEQ filters, loaded into the mini DSP, to get the best response from those existing subwoofers.

Finally, the icing on the cake is that you can use Bass EQ filters, also used with the mini DSP, for all the movies and TV shows you can imagine.

Mark


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post #14780 of 15280 Old 04-28-2020, 12:22 PM
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Sometime, we just need to chill out a bit behind the keyboard. I can see how/why people read Muscles' post and think he is a jerk. I can assure with you guys that from meeting him in person, he is one super nice guy that loves audio. He just gives his honest opinions from his own experiences and with stuffs he had owned and still owns. The truth hurts sometime but I rather listen to someone who actually listens and experiences stuffs than some random guys recommending/suggesting stuffs they have never heard themselves or recommending products that are not even available. Having met about 20 AVSers in person, they are all very nice folks with the same interests/hobbies. Reading someone posts can lead people to wrong impressions of who they are. Stay safe folks.
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post #14781 of 15280 Old 04-28-2020, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by skylarlove1999 View Post
I am sure there are plenty of people who appreciate that in person because they can see your body

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I will leave it at that....

Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD
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post #14782 of 15280 Old 04-28-2020, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by vinnie123 View Post
Really, I just want advice on what route to proceed for my SUBS.

- Sell 2x PB16 and purchase 1x CAP 4000 ULF. The costs would be a wash in the end but have undesirable placement

- Sell 2x PB16 and purchase 2x CAP 2400 ULF so they fit better in my space, under the screen. This would cost money out of pocket and I'm still of the belief (and looks like the numbers back it up) that 2x CAP2400 do not equal the output and low end of 1x CAP4000.
In all scenarios, I am keeping 1x PB16 for behind my MLP.
Either option will be fine choice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie123 View Post
I measured, and if I raise my screen 1.5 inches I should be able to fit a 4000 on it's side, with the center on top. It's gonna look UGLY tho..

If anything, I am more confused on what to do now, one 4000 or two 2400s. Again, pricing for one cap is much better than two 2400s.
Once the two badass 18" drivers stare at you, I bet it won't be ugly, quite opposite actually
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post #14783 of 15280 Old 04-28-2020, 12:46 PM
 
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
Sometime, we just need to chill out a bit behind the keyboard. I can see how/why people read Muscles' post and think he is a jerk. I can assure with you guys that from meeting him in person, he is one super nice guy that loves audio. He just gives his honest opinions from his own experiences and with stuffs he had owned and still owns. The truth hurts sometime but I rather listen to someone who actually listens and experiences stuffs than some random guys recommending/suggesting stuffs they have never heard themselves or recommending products that are not even available. Having met about 20 AVSers in person, they are all very nice folks with the same interests/hobbies. Reading someone posts can lead people to wrong impressions of who they are. Stay safe folks.
Thank you for that perspective. That is what I hope of most people who have a direct delivery via written text. They use their smile, body language and humor to offset the abrupt communication style. In person that works well. In text, words sometimes appear harsher than they were intended.

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post #14784 of 15280 Old 04-28-2020, 12:53 PM
 
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
I will leave it at that....
LOL. You are right. I probably never leave it at that. Well played sir. Well played. You have owned a bunch of different subwoofers. For ULF and really good mid bass in one sub what have been your best performers. Thanks in advance.

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post #14785 of 15280 Old 04-28-2020, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by mechtheist View Post
It's so easy to not remember making a fool of oneself. You accused me of spewing anecdotal evidence when I did no such thing but everything you said was anecdotal. It was such a glaring error it made me wonder if you even know what anecdotal means.
You win, I am by no means a chart reading, stats chasing person. Would I remove the C2600 from my system....nope. I am a hands on person, I am fortunate to live next to many dealers that let me take stuff to try all the time. If there isn't a massive difference I wouldn't consider it. You seem like a very condescending person, almost toxic. So let's just stop ruining this thread and get back on topic. For the record you totally won, and you can have a celebratory beer/soda or whatever you like.

Let me add some quality content to this derailment. I have owned more subs than any human should, and I have heard many more. Nothing....I mean nothing prepares you for the ULF4000 and its violent output. Charts may say that some are close, but in person it is an experience. If someone is chasing the low end dragon, then switching two PB16's for a ULF4000 would be the avenue I would go. Also, the SVS have amazing resale value and are in huge demand. I think it took less than a week to sell anything SVS I have ever owned.

Greg

Subwoofers: Dual JTR RS1's - SB13 Ultra (bedroom)
Speakers: 2xJTR Noesis 212RT 1 210RM - KEF LS50W
Audio:McIntosh C2600 Pre - Marantz SR-8012 -Dual McIntosh 601's - PS Audio M700 - McIntosh MT5 - GoldNotePH10 - Oppo UDP-205 - BlueSound Node 2
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post #14786 of 15280 Old 04-28-2020, 01:24 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mechtheist View Post
It's so easy to not remember making a fool of oneself. You accused me of spewing anecdotal evidence when I did no such thing but everything you said was anecdotal. It was such a glaring error it made me wonder if you even know what anecdotal means.
You are doing the same thing you are saying Greg did, trying to make him feel small. That is wasted time and effort. The dude is huge. LOL. He is a trainer/professional body builder. In all seriousness let us try to be better than this tit for tat eye for an eye. We all have at least one thing in common. We love love love talking about audio and video. I know I have started my fair share of sh*t on this forum. I am not excusing myself. Peace be with you.

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post #14787 of 15280 Old 04-28-2020, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by muscles View Post
You win, I am by no means a chart reading, stats chasing person. Would I remove the C2600 from my system....nope. I am a hands on person, I am fortunate to live next to many dealers that let me take stuff to try all the time. If there isn't a massive difference I wouldn't consider it. You seem like a very condescending person, almost toxic. So let's just stop ruining this thread and get back on topic. For the record you totally won, and you can have a celebratory beer/soda or whatever you like.

Let me add some quality content to this derailment. I have owned more subs than any human should, and I have heard many more. Nothing....I mean nothing prepares you for the ULF4000 and its violent output. Charts may say that some are close, but in person it is an experience. If someone is chasing the low end dragon, then switching two PB16's for a ULF4000 would be the avenue I would go. Also, the SVS have amazing resale value and are in huge demand. I think it took less than a week to sell anything SVS I have ever owned.

Greg
Me condescending? Uh, 'drivel' 'nonsense'? Point to anything I've said that is anywhere near as condescending as that. You accused me of giving anecdotal support for what I said, I didn't, but that is all you have provided. Do you know what anecdotal means? If someone gives a quote of testing results, gives citations of supporting material, that is the opposite of anecdotal. If someone supports their claim by insisting they hear something, claims others he has had over to his house and they agree with him, and says everyone in a forum topic dedicated to the same piece of equipment he is claiming is dramatically superior agree with him, that IS anecdotal. I have called you out twice now, this is third, and you refuse to retract the glaring error in your claim.


You also claimed AVR manufacturers don't care about 2channel audio and provide little support it for and only substandard components etc and I pointed out how both Yamaha and Denon provide for Direct and Pure modes for 2channel, a direct contradiction of your claim, yet you continue to make this claim. I don't doubt your considerable audio experience and knowledge, only some of the claims you've made and I have supported my position with facts and quotes, you have only repeated your opinions and the opinions of others.


Can you refute any of the above? Simply saying I'm wrong isn't a refutation, see Monty Python for the great argument clinic bit.
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post #14788 of 15280 Old 04-28-2020, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skylarlove1999 View Post
You are doing the same thing you are saying Greg did, trying to make him feel small. That is wasted time and effort. The dude is huge. LOL. He is a trainer/professional body builder. In all seriousness let us try to be better than this tit for tat eye for an eye. We all have at least one thing in common. We love love love talking about audio and video. I know I have started my fair share of sh*t on this forum. I am not excusing myself. Peace be with you.

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Please see my previous post..
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post #14789 of 15280 Old 04-28-2020, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by skylarlove1999 View Post
LOL. You are right. I probably never leave it at that. Well played sir. Well played. You have owned a bunch of different subwoofers. For ULF and really good mid bass in one sub what have been your best performers. Thanks in advance.

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Well that is an interesting question. To be honest I feel my current subs give me both in spades. My room is like a closet with a lot of room gain. I had the V1801 before but I did not realize what I missing at the low end till I heard the 2400 ULF and I was like man, I want that low bass. My favorite sub from JTR was the 118 HT and it was a dead heat between the FV18 and the 118. I was really sad to see it being discontinued. However for me the Fv18 was able to play all the nuances in the bass notes and I liked the flexibility of the variable tuning. If I had a larger room, it would be Cap 4000 all day long.

Edit: even now I dream of having a 4000 ST behind my rear seating and swapping my MTM 210s with 212HT or RTs...sigh....

Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD

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post #14790 of 15280 Old 04-28-2020, 02:13 PM
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I'm not sure if many of you guys can compare them, but does anyone know how a cap 2400 would compare to a DIY like the devastator build with the 21", NSW6026? I was thinking that eminence was the company building for JTR so I wondered if that would give similar signature sounds as well. The one thing I was confused about on the devastator is that it doesn't seem to be tuned all that low.
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