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post #31 of 98 Old 08-26-2017, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Single V3601 is $2149 shipped. Dual V1801 are $2649 shipped.

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great thanks for the info..! do you think 15 amp circuit (along with my AVR, proj ) can support the dual V1801 for movie watching (at most at -10?) projector draws 280W

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post #32 of 98 Old 08-26-2017, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by PoorSignal View Post
great thanks for the info..! do you think 15 amp circuit (along with my AVR, proj ) can support the dual V1801 for movie watching (at most at -10?) projector draws 280W
1)how big is the room and what will be the avg distance between the subs and the key seating?

2)-10 on the master volume, correct? Do you bump up the bass levels after calibration? If so, how much louder is the bass versus the rest of the channels?

3)which main speakers are you using in the system? Also, which receiver?

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post #33 of 98 Old 08-26-2017, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSignal View Post
great thanks for the info..! do you think 15 amp circuit (along with my AVR, proj ) can support the dual V1801 for movie watching (at most at -10?) projector draws 280W
Yes, quite easily. I haven't read of anyone tripping a 15amp breaker with a similar setup. I'm running a 9.4.4 system with two V1801, two V1800, two extra powered 12" MBMs, motion actuators with an external amp, all on a 15a circuit. At most I've dimmed the lights a couple times when pushing the system extremely hard. These amps are all very efficient.
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post #34 of 98 Old 08-26-2017, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
1)how big is the room and what will be the avg distance between the subs and the key seating?

2)-10 on the master volume, correct? Do you bump up the bass levels after calibration? If so, how much louder is the bass versus the rest of the channels?

3)which main speakers are you using in the system? Also, which receiver?

Tom V.
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1) The room is 32.5'W * 15.4'D it is about 500 sq ft, 8 foot ceiling. But my viewing area is only in the 16'W x 15'D on one side of the room, Subs will be 11' to MLP (I just plan to place them next to the L, Rs toeing in from the sides of the towers, which currently have 3 feet from that one side wall of the room).

2) yes, just -10 from 0db. I manually calibrate with test tone but I forgot it was 85 or 75 sorry, I do not run my subs hot. (although I read sound meter read 3db low.. somewhere). Room modes would be something else, I don't have time to use REW at this point. With family watching is more like -20.

3) I have a yamaha rxv3800 receiver, L, R are tower speaker (brand now defunct not worth mentioning) with 8" woofer, and then klipsch 450c and energy RCR for the rears. Probably upgrading to Denon X4300 eventually for atmos andmaybe all klipsch, but the SQ is good enough for me so far.
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post #35 of 98 Old 08-26-2017, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
Yes, quite easily. I haven't read of anyone tripping a 15amp breaker with a similar setup. I'm running a 9.4.4 system with two V1801, two V1800, two extra powered 12" MBMs, motion actuators with an external amp, all on a 15a circuit. At most I've dimmed the lights a couple times when pushing the system extremely hard. These amps are all very efficient.
Thanks for the info... I just keep hearing that other guy keep tripping with his Seaton, so I got worried.
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post #36 of 98 Old 08-26-2017, 03:57 PM
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PoorSignal, i'm running two Cap S-1's off one 20a line. I have them about 6/8Db's hot post calibration and regularly have MV -10 for movies and -6 for tunes. I'm nowhere near tripping the breaker. You will be more than fine even if you decide to go hot a few DB's.
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post #37 of 98 Old 08-26-2017, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSignal View Post
1) The room is 32.5'W * 15.4'D it is about 500 sq ft, 8 foot ceiling. But my viewing area is only in the 16'W x 15'D on one side of the room, Subs will be 11' to MLP (I just plan to place them next to the L, Rs toeing in from the sides of the towers, which currently have 3 feet from that one side wall of the room).

2) yes, just -10 from 0db. I manually calibrate with test tone but I forgot it was 85 or 75 sorry, I do not run my subs hot. (although I read sound meter read 3db low.. somewhere). Room modes would be something else, I don't have time to use REW at this point. With family watching is more like -20.

3) I have a yamaha rxv3800 receiver, L, R are tower speaker (brand now defunct not worth mentioning) with 8" woofer, and then klipsch 450c and energy RCR for the rears. Probably upgrading to Denon X4300 eventually for atmos andmaybe all klipsch, but the SQ is good enough for me so far.
You'll be fine..

If you were running 85dB speakers...9-11 of them...with a huge receiver AND had the bass 10dB hot...hard to say for sure. But I'd be very surprised if you ran into any issues with the above.

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post #38 of 98 Old 08-26-2017, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSignal View Post
1) The room is 32.5'W * 15.4'D it is about 500 sq ft, 8 foot ceiling. But my viewing area is only in the 16'W x 15'D on one side of the room, Subs will be 11' to MLP (I just plan to place them next to the L, Rs toeing in from the sides of the towers, which currently have 3 feet from that one side wall of the room).
The subs will see the entire volume of the room, regardless of what portion of the room you use for viewing.

Subs are much different than speakers and therefore should not necessarily be placed like speakers i.e symmetrically on the front wall toed in like speakers. They don't image and often don't work well when placed like speakers for aesthetics and imaging.

If you are going duals, place and set them up properly. If not willing to do this, just get one big sub. You will get the same poor frequency response that poorly placed duals will provide, but probably higher output.

However, sometimes placement on the front stage can work well for frequency response. But you won't know unless you measure. REW. Umik-1.
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post #39 of 98 Old 08-26-2017, 10:31 PM
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So next question that naturally follows. Which would be better for my room v3601 vs dual v1801? I am even running one sub right now and it is ok. It is behind my screen. But my screen is not transparent. But if I get v3601 it could be placed at any place other than the screen.
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post #40 of 98 Old 08-26-2017, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSignal View Post
Thanks for the info... I just keep hearing that other guy keep tripping with his Seaton, so I got worried.
The Seatons I had were 2400 watts each and were an older amp, I have dual V1801s now and crank them up with no tripping
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post #41 of 98 Old 08-26-2017, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by PoorSignal View Post
So next question that naturally follows. Which would be better for my room v3601 vs dual v1801? I am even running one sub right now and it is ok. It is behind my screen. But my screen is not transparent. But if I get v3601 it could be placed at any place other than the screen.
I would prefer dual subs to provide you smoother bass response and avoid localization issues. If you do dual V3601s then that would be awesome.
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post #42 of 98 Old 08-27-2017, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSignal View Post
great thanks for the info..! do you think 15 amp circuit (along with my AVR, proj ) can support the dual V1801 for movie watching (at most at -10?) projector draws 280W
I will second Tom's advice and can tell you that you'll be fine. I have a 300WPC Class A/B stereo amp, NR3009 AVR., Epson UB5030 projector, and the S7201 all on the same circuit. No issues with the 15A circuit thus far. Even at high volumes, I've never had any issues in the past three days.

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post #43 of 98 Old 08-27-2017, 11:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSignal View Post
Aug 2017 price difference between the 2 is no longer < $3000

118HT

$3200 + shipping ($200 or more?) = $3400+

V3601

$2800 shipped


So.. what would you choose and why?
It's too bad you did not get a pair of the JTR Cap 118HT at the pre-order price of $1099 each plus shipping... Those who did basically saved $500 each Cap 118HT and are still smiling in their sleep...

Though more expensive and over your budget of $3000, dual Cap 118HTs are worth the premium. The JTR Cap 118HTs are superior and will give you much more output below 25 Hz, which is much harder to come by. I was able to compare them and I found that the Cap 118HT also provided slightly better SQ, more impact/Tactile response, and less port noise. Therefore, if you can accommodate a sub that is 6" taller but has roughly the same footprint, you should do so.

Or you can get a JTR Cap 1400 for now and save for another.

Both the Cap 1400 and the Cap 118HT have been tested by data-bass.com.
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post #44 of 98 Old 08-28-2017, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSignal View Post
Thanks for the info... I just keep hearing that other guy keep tripping with his Seaton, so I got worried.
Quote:
Originally Posted by imureh View Post
The Seatons I had were 2400 watts each and were an older amp, I have dual V1801s now and crank them up with no tripping
We've been using the 2400W amplifiers in SubMersives since 2010, and our 4000W amplifiers since 2013, and this is the first case I've come across someone having significant problems tripping a breaker with two units, and most easily run 4 SubMersives from 2x 4000W amplifiers from a 20A breaker. The V1801 uses the 700W ICEpower modules, which at very most can pull 750-1000W from the wall for short duration. The content causing the breaker trips in this case were related to the very low frequency capability of the sealed SubMersive, which is the range where the most real power can be required. I would expect no issue with a pair of vented subwoofers using the 700W ICEpower based, SpeakerPower amplifier on your 15A circuit unless there are too many other devices or intermingling of wiring with other circuits nearby. While Imad had the specific case of not having any additional spare breakers in his panel and couldn't easily upgrade the wiring from the existing 15A circuit to properly sized 12AWG wire for a 20A circuit, an upgraded or additionally dedicated circuit is not as difficult to execute in most homes if you eventually were to find the limits of the breaker.

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post #45 of 98 Old 08-28-2017, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
It's too bad you did not get a pair of the JTR Cap 118HT at the pre-order price of $1099 each plus shipping... Those who did basically saved $500 each Cap 118HT and are still smiling in their sleep...

Though more expensive and over your budget of $3000, dual Cap 118HTs are worth the premium. The JTR Cap 118HTs are superior and will give you much more output below 25 Hz, which is much harder to come by. I was able to compare them and I found that the Cap 118HT also provided slightly better SQ, more impact/Tactile response, and less port noise. Therefore, if you can accommodate a sub that is 6" taller but has roughly the same footprint, you should do so.

Or you can get a JTR Cap 1400 for now and save for another.

Both the Cap 1400 and the Cap 118HT have been tested by data-bass.com.

@PoorSignal

Here we go again with terms like "superior " and "better". Yes the OP can look at the specs to start with but that does not mean that they would find the sub superior than any other. I keep pointing to my example. The Cap 1400 is not even a direct competitor of the v1801 given its power, price and size but that did result it sounding superior to me. As it has been said there are many factors at play and output is just one. That does not mean any sub is "superior" to another. That is for the individual to decide.


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post #46 of 98 Old 08-28-2017, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
@PoorSignal

Here we go again with terms like "superior " and "better". Yes the OP can look at the specs to start with but that does not mean that they would find the sub superior than any other. I keep pointing to my example. The Cap 1400 is not even a direct competitor of the v1801 given its power, price and size but that did result it sounding superior to me. As it has been said there are many factors at play and output is just one. That does not mean any sub is "superior" to another. That is for the individual to decide.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSignal View Post
Aug 2017 price difference between the 2 is no longer < $3000

118HT

$3200 + shipping ($200 or more?) = $3400+

V3601

$2800 shipped

So.. what would you choose and why?
The OP asked a question and I answered it based on my experience. The JTR Cap 1400 and the Cap 118HT both performed better than the PSA V1801 in a huge room, very much like the OP's room.

BTW, you never did compared the PSA V1801 and JTR Cap 1400 side by side.

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Last edited by chucky7; 08-28-2017 at 12:17 PM.
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post #47 of 98 Old 08-28-2017, 12:18 PM
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Dual JTR captivator 118ht Or dual psa v1801 this is my final choice

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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
The OP asked a question and I answered it based on my experience - comparing the PSA V1801, the Cap 118HT and the Cap 1400 in a huge room, very much like the OP's room.

BTW, you never did compared the PSA V1801 and JTR Cap 1400 side by side.


No I did not. But I remember the sound signature. As I said helping is one thing but making definitive statements about one sub to another is problematic. If it was your experience it should have said that you found the JTR superior in your experience which then says that others may find another brand superior. Your statement of "it is superior" makes it sound like no one else would find any other sub better.

EDIT: just for the record I am not speaking in favor of PSA. My statement applies to all other brands.

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post #48 of 98 Old 08-28-2017, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imureh View Post
No I did not. But I remember the sound signature. As I said helping is one thing but making definitive statements about one sub to another is problematic. If it was your experience it should have said that you found the JTR superior in your experience which then says that others may find another brand superior. Your statement of "it is superior" makes it sound like no one else would find any other sub better.

EDIT: just for the record I am not speaking in favor of PSA. My statement applies to all other brands.
Sure I can start every sentence with an IMHO, but I think the OP can separate opinion from fact.

If you can't answer the question and provide why, please move on.

BTW, do you know how long our auditory memory is good for?

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post #49 of 98 Old 08-28-2017, 12:42 PM
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Dual JTR captivator 118ht Or dual psa v1801 this is my final choice

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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Sure I can start every sentence with an IMHO, but I think the OP can separate opinion from fact.

If you can't answer the question and provide why, please move on.

BTW, do you know how long our auditory memory is good for?


I already provided my opinion on several occasions. It's clear what I preferred. But I am not using that to say that the V1801 is superior. My auditory memory is quite long


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post #50 of 98 Old 08-28-2017, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
It's too bad you did not get a pair of the JTR Cap 118HT at the pre-order price of $1099 each plus shipping... Those who did basically saved $500 each Cap 118HT and are still smiling in their sleep...

Though more expensive and over your budget of $3000, dual Cap 118HTs are worth the premium. The JTR Cap 118HTs are superior and will give you much more output below 25 Hz, which is much harder to come by. I was able to compare them and I found that the Cap 118HT also provided slightly better SQ, more impact/Tactile response, and less port noise. Therefore, if you can accommodate a sub that is 6" taller but has roughly the same footprint, you should do so.

Or you can get a JTR Cap 1400 for now and save for another.

Both the Cap 1400 and the Cap 118HT have been tested by data-bass.com.

Yes, I did hear about the pre-order price, I know they are a capable sub, I just feel the price as of now is no longer that great. It just seemed the price has increased alot lately on their subs.

The other thing is, I don't mind a good mid range kick which people have described the V1801 or V3601 does very well. It seems the recent movies these days are no longer mixed under 30hz anymore. I don't even have to deal with WAF, but the cost is an issue. I don't think I could go wrong with either one. But how about saving that extra $800-$1000 after shipping?
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post #51 of 98 Old 08-28-2017, 12:46 PM
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Dual JTR captivator 118ht Or dual psa v1801 this is my final choice

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSignal View Post
Yes, I did hear about the pre-order price, I know they are a capable sub, I just feel the price as of now is no longer that great. It just seemed the price has increased alot lately on their subs.



The other thing is, I don't mind a good mid range kick which people have described the V1801 or V3601 does very well. It seems the recent movies these days are no longer mixed under 30hz anymore. I don't even have to deal with WAF, but the cost is an issue. I don't think I could go wrong with either one. But how about saving that extra $800-$1000 after shipping?


That is what I have said and many others. PSA offers a good balance between price, performance, size and looks.

EDIT: not to mention unparalleled customer service and longer warranty. For me those all added up especially when I preferred the sound signature.



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post #52 of 98 Old 08-28-2017, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
That is what I have said and many others. PSA offers a good balance between price, performance, size and looks.

EDIT: not to mention unparalleled customer service and longer warranty. For me those all added up especially when I preferred the sound signature.



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Can you describe how is sound signature difference between your V1801 and Cap 1400?
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post #53 of 98 Old 08-28-2017, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSignal View Post
Yes, I did hear about the pre-order price, I know they are a capable sub, I just feel the price as of now is no longer that great. It just seemed the price has increased a lot lately on their subs.

The other thing is, I don't mind a good mid range kick which people have described the V1801 or V3601 does very well. It seems the recent movies these days are no longer mixed under 30hz anymore. I don't even have to deal with WAF, but the cost is an issue. I don't think I could go wrong with either one. But how about saving that extra $800-$1000 after shipping?
The JTR Cap 118HT and the PSA V1801 are neck to neck above 40 hz. The 118HT just digs deeper. Since the ID subs market is quite competitive, you do get what you paid for.

I wouldn't say that the recent movies are no longer mixed under 30 Hz. It is more of the studio's or the production company's choice, which could change any time. Movies such as Superman vs Batman, Don't Breathe, Kong, and Alien: Covenant still have ample content below 30 Hz.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.
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post #54 of 98 Old 08-28-2017, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imureh View Post
not to mention unparalleled customer service

and longer warranty.

Tom does provide outstanding customer service.

JTR warranty is 5 years, the same as PSA.
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post #55 of 98 Old 08-28-2017, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus33 View Post
Tom does provide outstanding customer service.



JTR warranty is 5 years, the same as PSA.


Not on the amp. That is only 3.


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Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD
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post #56 of 98 Old 08-28-2017, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSignal View Post
Can you describe how is sound signature difference between your V1801 and Cap 1400?


I found the Cap not punchy and clear. It sounded boomy in my room. The other thing that posed an issue was placement. Due to its large size the options are more limited than the V1801. I found the V1801 to provide more impact and TR. Again this is in my room which is a sealed 2100 cuft room


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Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD
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post #57 of 98 Old 08-28-2017, 01:33 PM
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When I heard the PSA V1801, the JTR Cap 1400 ( 2015 version ) and the Cap 118HT at the same spot in a huge room, I think all of them sounded really, really good. Marc thought the Cap 118HT sounded a little bit tighter than the Cap 1400 and the V1801. Jeff @ JTR made some improvements on the Cap 1400 2017 version.

It's the TR and the port design that made the JTR Cap 1400 and the Cap 118HT the better performer.

Drew1204 is currently auditioning the JTR Cap 1400 and the PSA V1801. You can read about it here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...l#post54693276
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Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

Last edited by chucky7; 08-28-2017 at 03:00 PM.
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post #58 of 98 Old 08-16-2018, 11:30 AM
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Budget is $3,000 max. Single JTR 2400 or Dual PSA V1811?
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post #59 of 98 Old 08-16-2018, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by pda15 View Post
Budget is $3,000 max. Single JTR 2400 or Dual PSA V1811?
What about Dual 118HTs at the intro price Jeff has going?

Set up #1 Speakers LR: Tekton Enzo XL ; Center: Tekton Pendragon Subs (2) 2019 JTR 118HTs
Set up #2 : QA3020i LR, Center: Emotiva C1 Subs (2) HSU VTF2 MK5,
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post #60 of 98 Old 08-16-2018, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pda15 View Post
Budget is $3,000 max. Single JTR 2400 or Dual PSA V1811?
Are you talking about the JTR Cap 2400ULF?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
The new and improved Captivator 118HT has a 1200W RMS amp and further improved port. It has 2~3 dB more output across. The new Captivator 118HT will also have the same dimensions but different port and amp cutout as the old Captivator 118HT.

It is priced at $1799 plus shipping. Introductory price is 15% off at $1529 + shipping.
Get a pair of the new Cap 118HT at $1679 each shipped.

This will offer you the most output from 16~80Hz for your budget, period.
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Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.
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