Which one SVS SB12 or RSL speedwoofer 10s - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 42 Old 01-30-2017, 10:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Which one SVS SB12 or RSL speedwoofer 10s

Want to buy a sub for my room. Can't seem to find any comparisons of these subs head to head. I've read the separate reviews, but can't find frequency response graphs of the speedwoofer 10s. The SVS SB12 looks good.Want to know if which one can dig deeper with more flatter response from the lowest frequency to where it tapers off at the top. So which one digs deeper? Which one plays louder?

My budget is whatever those 2 subuwoofers cost only no higher.

My setup:
Marantz sr5008
KRK rokit8 g3 FRONT L/R, pioneer bs22 F.height L/R, TEAC LS H265b surrL/R and if I want to TEAC LS H70a for surrBack if not using front height.
Room size: 16x12
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post #2 of 42 Old 01-31-2017, 05:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nbp_civic View Post
Want to buy a sub for my room. Can't seem to find any comparisons of these subs head to head. I've read the separate reviews, but can't find frequency response graphs of the speedwoofer 10s. The SVS SB12 looks good.Want to know if which one can dig deeper with more flatter response from the lowest frequency to where it tapers off at the top. So which one digs deeper? Which one plays louder?

My budget is whatever those 2 subuwoofers cost only no higher.

My setup:
Marantz sr5008
KRK rokit8 g3 FRONT L/R, pioneer bs22 F.height L/R, TEAC LS H265b surrL/R and if I want to TEAC LS H70a for surrBack if not using front height.
Room size: 16x12
Since it is a free trial, why not try a single SVS 12 and if you like it, add a second for room balance. Be sure to look over those in the SVS "Outlet" Tough to find the blemishes I have received there. I started with a 12+, wanted better room uniformity so to see what it would do, added a 13 ultra. They really did not mate well but I liked the 13 ultra PC so much I bought a second and sent my 12+ back. Now I have two 16 ultras in sealed box. The larger ported just would not fit where I wanted to put them. All of them seemed to go down below 16 quite well due to room placement and room gain. I ran all in sealed mode even though the 12+ and 13 ultra were the cylinder ported units. I love the option to return things with no additional cost if they are not what I like in my home.

Bill Shenefelt; JBL 4343 monitors on Audire and Crown 1502 amps. 2 SVS 16 SB subs. 8 cu ft ported enclosure with 18 inch jbl driver on a Crown 1002 XTi amp (below 30 cps cut via eq), 4 Klipsch in-ceiling atmos. Anthem MRX 1120 receiver. Accuphase C-200, PS P600, Sony 4k projector and tv, SOTA Saphire turntable and Oppo 205 disk player .
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post #3 of 42 Old 01-31-2017, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by nbp_civic View Post
I've read the separate reviews, but can't find frequency response graphs of the speedwoofer 10s.
When I searched for "rsl speedwoofer 10s review" the 2nd link had measurements.

 
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post #4 of 42 Old 01-31-2017, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nbp_civic View Post
Want to buy a sub for my room. Can't seem to find any comparisons of these subs head to head. I've read the separate reviews, but can't find frequency response graphs of the speedwoofer 10s. The SVS SB12 looks good.Want to know if which one can dig deeper with more flatter response from the lowest frequency to where it tapers off at the top. So which one digs deeper? Which one plays louder?

My budget is whatever those 2 subuwoofers cost only no higher.
I was looking at these same 2 subwoofers to replace my SVS SB-1000. I have very limited space in one corner for a subwoofer and didn't want to go with 2 subwoofers yet. From what i could find, both have similar performance.

To be honest i think both subwoofers would perform well but i decided on the RSL for a few reasons. 1st, RSL offers a free 30 day return policy (nothing to lose if i didn't like it) 2nd, There was nothing but very good reviews from Audioholics (almost rating it for a large room) and Sound & Vision which was really impressed with it for it's size. There's also is a member on here that has a video of it in another post that was very impressed with it and he had some nice other subwoofers in his other rooms to compare it to.3rd, It has built in wireless feature which would be nice for connecting 2 subs together. 4th, Jim Wilson (above) did a review on a RSL 5.1 system with the original speedwoofer and liked the quality and sound of RSL products. 5th, I talked to RSL and was very impressed with there service and help in answering my questions. 6th, Last but not least, I just can't get over the terrible curved metal grills SVS put on the SB12 and SB-2000! It may not bother you but it sure did me.

After receiving the RSL speedwoofer 10s and hooking it up and ran thru my Audyssey, ( I have a Marantz SR5008 receiver). I was amazed at how it sounded compared to the SB-1000 which cost me $129.00 more then the Speedwoofer 10s 3 years earlier. Not just in output but in how the bass sounded. Much better tighter bass, goes much lower and louder but didn't sound boomy at all. So tight and precise that it almost makes the sealed SB-1000 sound muddy to a point. And SVS subs are certainly not considered muddy sounding! Movies were no contest, The RSL was much stronger thru out the bass frequency from it's lowest point all the way up.
But the real surprise for me was how much better it made my music sound listening to my SACD's in multi channel and 2.1. I thought for sure a sealed sub would more musical but it just wasn't the case. I couldn't be more happier at this point and i have owed it for about 5 weeks now.

I know this is not the SB12 i am comparing it to but if the SB12 sounds anything like the SB-1000 ( both sealed 12" subs) but with more output then i would still prefer the RSL bass that it produces. I have a few friends and my brother that think the same way about it.
Best thing to do is try the RSL's with there free 30 day trial period and see what you think in your house. It's really the best thing you can do. You can looks at graphs and charts all day. Not sure that will tell you how it will sound properly set up in your room.

The New Emotiva's are out now as well. My brother is looking at one here soon. Hopefully he gets the BasX 10 so we can bring it over to my place and compare side by side. It cost less then the RSL speedwoofer 10s.



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Originally Posted by Bill Shenefelt View Post
Since it is a free trial,
i don't think this is holds true because you have to purchase the SB12 thru a authorize SVS seller like amazon or New Egg. SVS doesn't carry this subwoofer because its a discontinued item! I could be wrong but that's how i took it.

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post #5 of 42 Old 01-31-2017, 09:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by RKSKYDANCER View Post
I was looking at these same 2 subwoofers to replace my SVS SB-1000. I have very limited space in one corner for a subwoofer and didn't want to go with 2 subwoofers yet. From what i could find, both have similar performance.

To be honest i think both subwoofers would perform well but i decided on the RSL for a few reasons. 1st, RSL offers a free 30 day return policy (nothing to lose if i didn't like it) 2nd, There was nothing but very good reviews from Audioholics (almost rating it for a large room) and Sound & Vision which was really impressed with it for it's size. There's also is a member on here that has a video of it in another post that was very impressed with it and he had some nice other subwoofers in his other rooms to compare it to.3rd, It has built in wireless feature which would be nice for connecting 2 subs together. 4th, Jim Wilson (above) did a review on a RSL 5.1 system with the original speedwoofer and liked the quality and sound of RSL products. 5th, I talked to RSL and was very impressed with there service and help in answering my questions. 6th, Last but not least, I just can't get over the terrible curved metal grills SVS put on the SB12 and SB-2000! It may not bother you but it sure did me.

After receiving the RSL speedwoofer 10s and hooking it up and ran thru my Audyssey, ( I have a Marantz SR5008 receiver). I was amazed at how it sounded compared to the SB-1000 which cost me $129.00 more then the Speedwoofer 10s 3 years earlier. Not just in output but in how the bass sounded. Much better tighter bass, goes much lower and louder but didn't sound boomy at all. So tight and precise that it almost makes the sealed SB-1000 sound muddy to a point. And SVS subs are certainly not considered muddy sounding! Movies were no contest, The RSL was much stronger thru out the bass frequency from it's lowest point all the way up.
But the real surprise for me was how much better it made my music sound listening to my SACD's in multi channel and 2.1. I thought for sure a sealed sub would more musical but it just wasn't the case. I couldn't be more happier at this point and i have owed it for about 5 weeks now.

I know this is not the SB12 i am comparing it to but if the SB12 sounds anything like the SB-1000 ( both sealed 12" subs) but with more output then i would still prefer the RSL bass that it produces. I have a few friends and my brother that think the same way about it.
Best thing to do is try the RSL's with there free 30 day trial period and see what you think in your house. It's really the best thing you can do. You can looks at graphs and charts all day. Not sure that will tell you how it will sound properly set up in your room.

The New Emotiva's are out now as well. My brother is looking at one here soon. Hopefully he gets the BasX 10 so we can bring it over to my place and compare side by side. It cost less then the RSL speedwoofer 10s.





i don't think this is holds true because you have to purchase the SB12 thru a authorize SVS seller like amazon or New Egg. SVS doesn't carry this subwoofer because its a discontinued item! I could be wrong but that's how i took it.

Awesome, thanks for sharing your experience with the RSL. Please post a thread on the comparison of the emotiva vs RSL when you are done with the testing.
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post #6 of 42 Old 01-31-2017, 10:30 PM
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I was looking at these two as well.

Reading reviews and measurements online it seems both RSL Speedwoofer 10s and SVS SB2000 achieve 20HZ at approx 92dB.

The glossy SVS SB2000 is sold in Aus for $1599AUD by its local distributor.
RSL will ship the Speedwoofer 10s to Aus for approx $900AUD.

Leaning toward the RSL at the moment
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post #7 of 42 Old 02-01-2017, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne Brendan Doherty View Post
The glossy SVS SB2000 is sold in Aus for $1599AUD by its local distributor.
RSL will ship the Speedwoofer 10s to Aus for approx $900AUD.

Leaning toward the RSL at the moment
Given the SVS costs about 75% more, I can see why you're leaning toward the RSL.

 
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post #8 of 42 Old 02-01-2017, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nbp_civic View Post
Want to buy a sub for my room. Can't seem to find any comparisons of these subs head to head. I've read the separate reviews, but can't find frequency response graphs of the speedwoofer 10s. The SVS SB12 looks good.Want to know if which one can dig deeper with more flatter response from the lowest frequency to where it tapers off at the top. So which one digs deeper? Which one plays louder?

My budget is whatever those 2 subuwoofers cost only no higher.

My setup:
Marantz sr5008
KRK rokit8 g3 FRONT L/R, pioneer bs22 F.height L/R, TEAC LS H265b surrL/R and if I want to TEAC LS H70a for surrBack if not using front height.
Room size: 16x12
Both subs will have similar output capabilities down to around 20Hz and are the same price currently. The SB12-NSD (which I used to own) has more extension capability and is a sealed sub. It was also normally much more expensive than the $399 price tag you can still get it for now. SVS also warranties their subs for a full 5 years on everything, while RSL warranty on the amp is 2 years. RSL has had some issues with the Speedwoofer 10S and reliability is an unknown, as this is a newer model. All this points to the SB12-NSD being an easy choice if it was my $$.
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post #9 of 42 Old 02-01-2017, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by MIX_MASTER_ICE View Post
SVS also warranties their subs for a full 5 years on everything, while RSL warranty on the amp is 2 years.
RSL warranties their subwoofers a full 5 years on everything but the amp. The amp is 2 years. like many subwoofer companies. SVS is better then most on this for sure. This didn't bother me. Again if that 1% production fail rate is going to happen it will happen well within this time period.


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Originally Posted by MIX_MASTER_ICE View Post
RSL has had some issues with the Speedwoofer 10S and reliability is an unknown, as this is a newer model.
This is not a unknown. What MIX fails to mention is this was a early production run issue back in mid 2016. I talked to RSL about this before buying. They had a fail rate of about 3 % which in there eyes was much to high. They trace the issue as being a sensitivity issue within 2 diodes in the amp. If a customers house had much variation in there power outlet it could shut the amp down.
This has since been redesigned on all new production subwoofers and is not a issue. There fail rate today is less then 1% on all new production. 1% or less is what RSL goal is on fail rate. This is much better then most companies out there.

RSL didn't stay in business all these years since the 70's by making defective or bad speakers. We all know most of this stuff comes from China now days including SVS products. Designed here, made there.

Not sure why MIX keeps bringing this up in threads? It's old news.

Myself i would be more concerned about the SVS SB12-NSD. It's a discontinued subwoofer. Who knows when it was built. 2 years ago? 3 years ago? Where did these subwoofer come from? Why was this model discontinued? didn't sell? People disappointed in it?

Actually since i been looking at subwoofers and reading on this forum, i see many people with SVS subwoofers complain there subwoofer has died. Amp is dead, Driver noises, rattles inside, Lights not working right. Subwoofers limiter lights flashing and there not even turn up loud. Yes, SVS takes care of the issue but it doesn't change the fact that there is still a fail rate with there product like anyone else.
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post #10 of 42 Old 02-01-2017, 06:28 PM
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RISKYDANCER, I stated what my choice would be and gave reasons why as per the OP's thread question. That's why I'm bringing it up. You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine.
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post #11 of 42 Old 02-02-2017, 08:32 AM
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I am also interested in this comparison. SVS SB2000 vs the RSL. If we take out the price factor (which I know is hard to do, but realistically you can probably get a used SB2000 for pretty close to the RSL), and if we just look at performance, which one is better? I cross over my speakers at about 100hz, so which one will be able to go higher in that respect, but also lower, and louder and still remain tight and good sounding.


Lol, a lot to compare and probably impossible unless someone is able to do a side by side, but then it also depends on your room etc, etc.
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post #12 of 42 Old 02-02-2017, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RKSKYDANCER View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIX_MASTER_ICE View Post
SVS also warranties their subs for a full 5 years on everything, while RSL warranty on the amp is 2 years.
RSL warranties their subwoofers a full 5 years on everything but the amp. The amp is 2 years. like many subwoofer companies. SVS is better then most on this for sure. This didn't bother me. Again if that 1% production fail rate is going to happen it will happen well within this time period.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MIX_MASTER_ICE View Post
RSL has had some issues with the Speedwoofer 10S and reliability is an unknown, as this is a newer model.
This is not a unknown. What MIX fails to mention is this was a early production run issue back in mid 2016. I talked to RSL about this before buying. They had a fail rate of about 3 % which in there eyes was much to high. They trace the issue as being a sensitivity issue within 2 diodes in the amp. If a customers house had much variation in there power outlet it could shut the amp down.
This has since been redesigned on all new production subwoofers and is not a issue. There fail rate today is less then 1% on all new production. 1% or less is what RSL goal is on fail rate. This is much better then most companies out there.

RSL didn't stay in business all these years since the 70's by making defective or bad speakers. We all know most of this stuff comes from China now days including SVS products. Designed here, made there.

Not sure why MIX keeps bringing this up in threads? It's old news.

Myself i would be more concerned about the SVS SB12-NSD. It's a discontinued subwoofer. Who knows when it was built. 2 years ago? 3 years ago? Where did these subwoofer come from? Why was this model discontinued? didn't sell? People disappointed in it?

Actually since i been looking at subwoofers and reading on this forum, i see many people with SVS subwoofers complain there subwoofer has died. Amp is dead, Driver noises, rattles inside, Lights not working right. Subwoofers limiter lights flashing and there not even turn up loud. Yes, SVS takes care of the issue but it doesn't change the fact that there is still a fail rate with there product like anyone else.
Im not sure why you think the warranty difference isn't worth discussion just because you personally don't think it is important.

Let's be real here, the odds are most Amps won't fail, that doesn't change the fact that some will and some will between 2 and 5 years from now. Maybe op is in a small apartment now and will move into a house in 3 years where he will then run the sub way louder and harder. Maybe that added stress will make clear a defect that wasn't obvious or perhaps even existent until the sub was under such duress.

I'm kind of currious what types of subwoofer failure you are expecting that would only be the box or driver and not the amp besides literal physical damage. Yeah if someone kicks a hole in the driver, the amp wasnt involved. But it's not like a good amp is just gonna suddenly override it's protections and destroy the voice coil or something all on its own.
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post #13 of 42 Old 02-02-2017, 03:22 PM - Thread Starter
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From the physical box measurements, it seems the RSL is bigger than the SVS?

I've always had and heard ported subs and speakers only. How musch of a difference is a sealed sub to a ported one?

I'm kinda leaning towards the SB12 because of the great warranty.
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post #14 of 42 Old 02-07-2017, 08:54 AM
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I received my RSL sub last Friday & spent all weekend setting it up in my system. This is replacing my Klipsch HQ-12.
The RSL is smaller, but offers plenty of low end slam in movies, & sounds brilliant with music also, something the Klipsch wasn't so good at. Plus the wireless option is a sweet addition, making room placement a lot easier, especially for the sub crawl portion.
Very happy with my purchase, and RSL's customer service is 100% spot on.
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post #15 of 42 Old 02-07-2017, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by amnesia0287 View Post
Im not sure why you think the warranty difference isn't worth discussion just because you personally don't think it is important
It is worth discussing. That's why i gave my point of view on it. I will again.
The warranty difference on a $399.00 subwoofer, if it's 1,2 or 5 years on the amp is a NON issue, period! These 3 things are:
1. performance/value
2. aesthetic's
3. performance after the purchase

I am going to buy the subwoofer i feel will best fulfill these 3 things.
It makes no difference to me if the manufacture warranty is 2 years or 5 years. both will cover the 1 % failure rate because of a manufacture defect in materials or workmanship.

If the warrant so important to you. great!

In fact i can't remember the last time i had a electrical audio component fail on me over the last 30 years of buying the stuff. Many of my friends still have my past equipment and it's still going strong.


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Originally Posted by amnesia0287 View Post
Let's be real here, the odds are most Amps won't fail,
This is correct!

Quote:
Originally Posted by amnesia0287 View Post
that doesn't change the fact that some will and some will between 2 and 5 years from now. Maybe op is in a small apartment now and will move into a house in 3 years where he will then run the sub way louder and harder. Maybe that added stress will make clear a defect that wasn't obvious or perhaps even existent until the sub was under such duress.
All this is based all on premonitions. means nothing to me. I don't believe in future (what if's) and certainly don't base my decision made today on this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amnesia0287 View Post
I'm kind of currious what types of subwoofer failure you are expecting that would only be the box or driver and not the amp besides literal physical damage.
This kind:
QUOTE: My sub inst working anymore. It was hardly used since being purchased in 12/2010. It was in a bedroom system. I recently moved and now using it as a main system sub. I have determined its not the amp, and its the woofer. Cant believe this since its in mint condition. SVS wants me to pay $250 for a new woofer.
This is a quote from a AVS member with a SVS SB12-NSD!

Actually, I was always taught a moving part created by forces will have a much higher fail rate and sooner then a solid state part ever will.
I much rather have the 5 year warranty on the driver then the amp which is what both subwoofers have.


Quote:
Originally Posted by amnesia0287 View Post
Yeah if someone kicks a hole in the driver, the amp wasnt involved.
Sorry, no warranty covers this so whats the point here?



Quote:
Originally Posted by nbp_civic View Post
From the physical box measurements, it seems the RSL is bigger than the SVS?
It is. Heavier too!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nbp_civic View Post
I've always had and heard ported subs and speakers only. How musch of a difference is a sealed sub to a ported one?
I always thought i would prefer the SVS sealed sub for music but after buying the ported RSL Speedwoofer 10s i prefer it over the sealed SVS for sound with music by far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nbp_civic View Post
I'm kinda leaning towards the SB12 because of the great warranty.
If your buying a warranty good choice! If you want the newer more updated subwoofer with the free 30 day trial period buy the RSL. You have nothing to loose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by christoofar View Post
I received my RSL sub last Friday & spent all (t)weekend setting it up in my system. This is replacing my Klipsch HQ-12.
The RSL is smaller, but offers plenty of low end slam in movies, & sounds brilliant with music also, something the Klipsch wasn't so good at. Plus the wireless option is a sweet addition, making room placement a lot easier, especially for the sub crawl portion.
Very happy with my purchase, and RSL's customer service is 100% spot on.
Same experiences i had with RSL and the speedwoofer 10s. Really surprising what this subwoofer can do for $399.00!
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post #16 of 42 Old 02-07-2017, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04rex View Post
I am also interested in this comparison. SVS SB2000 vs the RSL. If we take out the price factor (which I know is hard to do, but realistically you can probably get a used SB2000 for pretty close to the RSL), and if we just look at performance, which one is better? I cross over my speakers at about 100hz, so which one will be able to go higher in that respect, but also lower, and louder and still remain tight and good sounding.


Lol, a lot to compare and probably impossible unless someone is able to do a side by side, but then it also depends on your room etc, etc.
Can't speak for the SB-2000 but the RSL speedwoofer 10s does all this very well. In fact when i talked to RSL they recommend a 100hz crossover on there subwoofers and speakers. Seams to be the magic number for them.

Both companies offer free trial periods so buy both and see which one you like the best.

Room size and placement will be big factors in this as well.

(Living Room) Sony XBR-65X900E 4K TV, Sony UBP-X800 4K BD player, Pioneer SC-LX502, Def Tech BP9020's, A90 atmos, CS-9040 C and Di 5.5R surrounds

(Garage) Sherwood RX-4105 Receiver, Samsung DVD/CD player, Klipsch 2.5 med oak speakers
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post #17 of 42 Old 02-07-2017, 07:24 PM
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Another aspect of buying from RSL is how they handled the quality issues with the early shipments, they addressed it & made it right with the customers who were affected by it. They also look to constantly improve their product, I'd emailed them asking how they felt about how bright the LED on the plate amp is, since I felt it is a bit bright, especially in a dark room. He told me that they'd felt the same way & have already speced in a dimmer led, which is coming starting with their shipment this week. Also I had purchased a sub from their outlet (an A stock) since I couldn't wait for their new shipment, and it arrived with a pretty distinct dent on one corner. They offered me a partial refund, or I can hang onto it until the new ones arrive & they'll pickup it up & swap it for a fresh one, for only the difference in cost from what I'd paid for the outlet one ($20) That is pretty good customer support.

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Sony x65-900F+ShieldTV+ Kodi Leia=>SR6010=>Integra DTA-70.1=>Chane A1.4 x 3 + DCM OW-1s x 2 + 1 x RSL Speedwoofer10 S+ 1 x Sunfire HRS12
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post #18 of 42 Old 03-10-2017, 08:20 AM
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I'm also looking to purchase one of these two subs, does anyone else want to chime in about them or give a bit more insight?

The SVS SB12-NSD seems to have the better numbers in testing, with lower distortion, a flatter response, and a broader frequency range. Sound and Vision has the +/- 3dB range on the SVS at 22Hz-203Hz compared to 30Hz-127Hz for the RSL. The CEA2010 testing by audioholics shows similar max SPL but lower distortion across the board for the SVS. These test numbers would seem to indicate that the SVS is the clear winner as far as sound. However, reviews about the Speedwoofer 10s all seem to rave about it being the best $400 sub in the universe and a no-brainer purchase. Is there something that I'm missing or do the advantages of the RSL just not show up in these tests? Some cite how well the RSL does on "fast" bass, how does the SVS compare in these situations? Others mention that it is not "boomy" is that a problem with the SVS? I'm not a sub expert at all (this will be my first nice-ish sub purchase) so any info would be greatly appreciated.
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post #19 of 42 Old 03-10-2017, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by godfatherip View Post
These test numbers would seem to indicate that the SVS is the clear winner as far as sound. However, reviews about the Speedwoofer 10s all seem to rave about it being the best $400 sub in the universe and a no-brainer purchase. Is there something that I'm missing or do the advantages of the RSL just not show up in these tests?
Numbers are not the whole story. Making a purchase decision based solely on graphs is a mistake. Nobody (hopefully) would buy a performance car using nothing more than 0-60 times and skidpad numbers, and the same holds true with audio equipment. You have to get behind the wheel and take 'er for a spin.

Both are very good subs, so it's not like you lose by choosing either. The question becomes which is better for you. Everyone's circumstances, situation and requirements differ. There are many variables to consider. Look at the numbers, definitely use them as a guide, but don't base a decision on just them. Appearance, warranty, company reputation, reviews, et al. Examine everything. Weigh the factors according to your own priorities.

Don't discount personal preference either. What I find appealing you may not. The numbers could suggest a particular subwoofer has the least distortion on the planet, yet that could lead to a 'clinical' sound you might not like. Perhaps you prefer 'warmer' bass, something often created by harmonic distortion (believe it or not). A sub capable of that might not measure as well, yet your ears could find it more appealing. In the end that's the only thing that matters, whether you feel the investment was worth the result.

 
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post #20 of 42 Old 03-10-2017, 06:48 PM
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post #21 of 42 Old 03-10-2017, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by godfatherip View Post
I'm also looking to purchase one of these two subs, does anyone else want to chime in about them or give a bit more insight?

The SVS SB12-NSD seems to have the better numbers in testing, with lower distortion, a flatter response, and a broader frequency range. Sound and Vision has the +/- 3dB range on the SVS at 22Hz-203Hz compared to 30Hz-127Hz for the RSL. The CEA2010 testing by audioholics shows similar max SPL but lower distortion across the board for the SVS. These test numbers would seem to indicate that the SVS is the clear winner as far as sound. However, reviews about the Speedwoofer 10s all seem to rave about it being the best $400 sub in the universe and a no-brainer purchase. Is there something that I'm missing or do the advantages of the RSL just not show up in these tests? Some cite how well the RSL does on "fast" bass, how does the SVS compare in these situations? Others mention that it is not "boomy" is that a problem with the SVS? I'm not a sub expert at all (this will be my first nice-ish sub purchase) so any info would be greatly appreciated.
I too considered the RSL before buying the SB12-NSD this last week. I think the reason the SB12 is typically excluded from the "best sub under $400" conversation is because its original sales price was much higher. It's available at that price now because it's a discontinued model on clearance. Looking back at reviews from when it first came out, it was priced at $649.

I just unpacked mine the other day, so I haven't listened to it much yet, but it's definitely better than the Polk PSW303B it replaced - tighter, louder, etc.

I considered going with the RSL but decided the measurables were in the SB12-NSD's favor and the price was pretty much the same. So, basically, what Jim advised against:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post
Making a purchase decision based solely on graphs is a mistake.
After a lot of research, I pulled the trigger when someone gave me a discount code for the Amazon seller:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...enough-me.html

Receiver: Pioneer VSX-1022-K
Sub: SVS SB12-NSD
Fronts: Pioneer SP-BS22-LR
Center: Chane A2.4
Surrounds: Polk R15
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post #22 of 42 Old 04-04-2017, 05:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post
Numbers are not the whole story. Making a purchase decision based solely on graphs is a mistake. Nobody (hopefully) would buy a performance car using nothing more than 0-60 times and skidpad numbers, and the same holds true with audio equipment. You have to get behind the wheel and take 'er for a spin.
Exactly. Case in point, this article I read yesterday while waiting for an oil change. Motor Trend did a 'Performance Car Shootout' between 5 cars mostly all with 300+ hp, including a $90k Porsche and a BMW M2, and guess which car was the number 1 favorite? The 164 hp Fiat 124 Spider. Specs, graphs, 0-60 times etc meant nothing in real world driving tests for pure fun and excitement, if that weren't the case then why test drive them at all and just rely on the numbers to determine a winner?
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/fiat/...r-s-toyota-86/

I've decided to pull the trigger on the RSL any day now, it will replace and older Velodyne Impact 10 and I suspect that i'll see an increase in performance with the new RSL.
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post #23 of 42 Old 04-04-2017, 05:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by christoofar View Post
Another aspect of buying from RSL is how they handled the quality issues with the early shipments, they addressed it & made it right with the customers who were affected by it. They also look to constantly improve their product, I'd emailed them asking how they felt about how bright the LED on the plate amp is, since I felt it is a bit bright, especially in a dark room. He told me that they'd felt the same way & have already speced in a dimmer led, which is coming starting with their shipment this week. Also I had purchased a sub from their outlet (an A stock) since I couldn't wait for their new shipment, and it arrived with a pretty distinct dent on one corner. They offered me a partial refund, or I can hang onto it until the new ones arrive & they'll pickup it up & swap it for a fresh one, for only the difference in cost from what I'd paid for the outlet one ($20) That is pretty good customer support.
I'm not a fan of bright lights on equipment either (like my Emotiva gear), but one thing i came across a while back that has helped tremendously with bright LED's is this product on Amazon. I use them on everything from my cable box to flickering network switch lights etc. They also make 'black out' style and full sheets for cutting custom sizes, i bought the variety size pack which seems to cover most of my needs.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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post #24 of 42 Old 04-04-2017, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nbp_civic View Post
Want to buy a sub for my room. Can't seem to find any comparisons of these subs head to head. I've read the separate reviews, but can't find frequency response graphs of the speedwoofer 10s. The SVS SB12 looks good.Want to know if which one can dig deeper with more flatter response from the lowest frequency to where it tapers off at the top. So which one digs deeper? Which one plays louder?

My budget is whatever those 2 subuwoofers cost only no higher.

My setup:
Marantz sr5008
KRK rokit8 g3 FRONT L/R, pioneer bs22 F.height L/R, TEAC LS H265b surrL/R and if I want to TEAC LS H70a for surrBack if not using front height.
Room size: 16x12
Then you need dual PB-1000's! I've been there, done that! Look at my YouTube videos under the same name!
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post #25 of 42 Old 04-05-2017, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Falconsfan71 View Post
Then you need dual PB-1000's! I've been there, done that! Look at my YouTube videos under the same name!
Yes, which is why for $400 I'm going to recommend two Emotiva 8" subs for the OP rather than either the single RSL or SB12, the latter of which many AVS posters have been ho hum about once they arrive. I think they were looking for a little more "punch" which a ported sub is better at than a sealed sub of modest power, (my 1250watt sealed sub has plenty of punch though).

I think two smaller subs, as you found, might, again, outperform a single sub costing twice as much with the huge benefit of a better spread of even bass across the listening area.

OP's AVR has two sub outs so I'm assuming the EQ will select separate distances properly for the two subs.

Here's Sound and Vision's frequency response for the RSL:



Here is the frequency response chart from Emotiva for the BasX S8, ($199 each).

https://emotiva.com/products/subwoofers/basx-s8

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post #26 of 42 Old 04-05-2017, 02:28 PM
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I just realized this is from January.. has the OP purchased and what did he get? How's it working for him?
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post #27 of 42 Old 04-09-2017, 05:46 AM
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Would be interested as well since I'm in this exact situation.
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post #28 of 42 Old 07-12-2017, 05:36 PM
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I know the PB 1000 is $100 more and it's larger, but it's surprising that the +- 3db on that is 19hz, and while on RSL it's listed at 24hz, the charts show that it's really 30hz. The HSU VTF-1 MK3 goes lower than the RSL as well for only $20/30 more when it's on sale.

I one day would love to upgrade my BasX S10 (although this is a very good sub and powerful) and think the HSU might be it when it comes on sale. I was looking at the RSL for it's compactness, but it looks like it goes loud, just not as deep.
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post #29 of 42 Old 02-02-2018, 08:48 PM
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I recently upgraded my subwoofer and I found the comments in these forums very helpful so I figured I'd share my experience in case it's helpful to someone else:

I'm not an audiophile but I recently upgraded my Onkyo HTIB front speakers to the Kef 100's and matching Kef Q200c center, and after reading many of the reviews in these forums I decided to upgrade my subwoofer as well. Based on other's recommendations I decided to try out both the Speedwoofer 10s and the PB-1000.

My living room is 15' x 19' and open to the kitchen and entry hallway. And in my setup the Speedwoofer sounded better than the PB-1000.

Over a period of three weeks I did two pairs of back to back comparisons between the PB-1000 and the Speedwoofer 10s. I first did the sub crawl with Audyssey turned off (using each subwoofer just to make sure) and found that the best position for the subwoofers was just to the right of my left front speaker. I then hooked up the PB-1000, did the Audyssey calibration, and listened to it for a week. It was a clear improvement over my previous subwoofer and I think I would have been happy with it.

I then hooked up the Speewoofer, ran the Audyssey calibration, and listened to it for a week. When I listened to music I noticed that the bass had more impact but I wasn't exactly sure if I liked it any better at first. I also noticed that it made my living room shake much more noticeably than the SVS when watching movies.

So during the last week I went back to the PB-1000 and listened to it for a few days, and then back to the Speedwoofer and listened to it for a few days. I did the Audyssey calibration with each switch.

After this last back to back the bass from the PB-1000 just seemed duller to me. I even ran the Audyssey calibration twice to make sure that wasn't affecting the performance of the PB. In the Despicable Me movie (I have kids) there is the scene with the rocket launch and the Speedwoofer really made my room shake. But in order to get the same effect I had to turn the PB volume much higher. In the end the Speedwoofer just sounded better to me, the bass was cleaner and more detailed, and I liked that I could physically feel it more.
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post #30 of 42 Old 02-02-2018, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New_hifi View Post
I recently upgraded my subwoofer and I found the comments in these forums very helpful so I figured I'd share my experience in case it's helpful to someone else:

I'm not an audiophile but I recently upgraded my Onkyo HTIB front speakers to the Kef 100's and matching Kef Q200c center, and after reading many of the reviews in these forums I decided to upgrade my subwoofer as well. Based on other's recommendations I decided to try out both the Speedwoofer 10s and the PB-1000.

My living room is 15' x 19' and open to the kitchen and entry hallway. And in my setup the Speedwoofer sounded better than the PB-1000.

Over a period of three weeks I did two pairs of back to back comparisons between the PB-1000 and the Speedwoofer 10s. I first did the sub crawl with Audyssey turned off (using each subwoofer just to make sure) and found that the best position for the subwoofers was just to the right of my left front speaker. I then hooked up the PB-1000, did the Audyssey calibration, and listened to it for a week. It was a clear improvement over my previous subwoofer and I think I would have been happy with it.

I then hooked up the Speewoofer, ran the Audyssey calibration, and listened to it for a week. When I listened to music I noticed that the bass had more impact but I wasn't exactly sure if I liked it any better at first. I also noticed that it made my living room shake much more noticeably than the SVS when watching movies.

So during the last week I went back to the PB-1000 and listened to it for a few days, and then back to the Speedwoofer and listened to it for a few days. I did the Audyssey calibration with each switch.

After this last back to back the bass from the PB-1000 just seemed duller to me. I even ran the Audyssey calibration twice to make sure that wasn't affecting the performance of the PB. In the Despicable Me movie (I have kids) there is the scene with the rocket launch and the Speedwoofer really made my room shake. But in order to get the same effect I had to turn the PB volume much higher. In the end the Speedwoofer just sounded better to me, the bass was cleaner and more detailed, and I liked that I could physically feel it more.
Your ears will tell you what you like best, so nothing wrong with that. As far as the speedwoofer playing cleaner, that's not going to be the case. The 10s actually has some rather high thd numbers, while the pb1000 thd will be much lower. The pb1000 has a very linear response. You may have been getting more mid bass output from the 10s, but extension is clearly much lower with the pb1000. Anyway, enjoy the 10s.

Subs>RBH I-12e, I-12. HSU VTF-15H mk2. Monolith THX 12(x2), THX 10(x2). XTZ 1X12. SVS PB-1000(x2). Speakers>JBL Studio 270/235c/230/225c, Arena 130/125c. Sony CS3/CS8/CS5. QA 3020i/3090Ci, 2020i/2000c. Monolith Cinema 5bs. Polk RTiA1/CSiA4. Other Audio>Sony MDR-Z7m2, MDR-V6, XB900n, XB700, XB32, XB31. Sennheiser HD58X, HD4.50, PC37X. Philips SHP9500. SIVGA SV004. HyperX Cloud PS4. TB Stealth300. LG FH6,RK8,RK7,PK5. HK Onyx Studio4(x2).
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