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post #1 of 34 Old 02-02-2017, 03:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Selecting A Pair of Subs for < $2000

I've got two older ported subs and plan to add two new ones to be the main source for low bass to complement my GoldenEar Triton Two+ front.

The room is 16.5 ft wide by 40 ft long with 8 ft ceiling (around 5000 cu. ft.). More than half of that volume is behind the main listening position. 70% movies, 30% music

Max budget delivered is $2000.

Are there a matched pair from HSU, Rythmik, or SVS that you would recommend for my application?

Planning to eventually optimize with miniDSP.

Thanks,
Scott
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post #2 of 34 Old 02-02-2017, 04:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Or, convince me I need one really good sub for the same money.

My other two subs are:
Infinity PS419
VMPS with 15" + 12" drivers, plus 12" passive, driven with 400 Wrms.

I will use miniDSP to optimize.
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post #3 of 34 Old 02-02-2017, 05:58 PM
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There are a few good options for subs around 1k/each. You have a very large space to fill, but placing two in the best capable spots closest to your seating would be recommended. PSA 15V would be $1850/pair, shipped. If you are open to buying a second, more expensive sub later, there are some very large, powerful subs in the 2K range. The JTR Captivator 1400 is $1899, plus shipping.
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post #4 of 34 Old 02-02-2017, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onetrack97 View Post
Or, convince me I need one really good sub for the same money.

My other two subs are:
Infinity PS419
VMPS with 15" + 12" drivers, plus 12" passive, driven with 400 Wrms.

I will use miniDSP to optimize.
I would definitely go with multiple ported subs in a room that size with minimum 15-18" drivers. If you have a max budget of $2K delivered, Power Sound Audio has a pair of 15V for $1849 shipped that's hard to beat. This sub has substantially more output than the 12" SVS subs available under 1K. Do you have any placement restrictions? I'd also look at the V3601 for a very powerful single sub at $2K.

https://www.powersoundaudio.com/coll...s/products/15v

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post #5 of 34 Old 02-02-2017, 06:50 PM - Thread Starter
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I was just looking at the Power Sound Audio stuff.

No real placement limitations as long as it's not too crazy.

I could go with one bigger new one and use the existing two subs to balance things out.
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post #6 of 34 Old 02-03-2017, 05:56 AM
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That's a big room for a single sub, I would also recommend dual ported subs. 15v (or v1500) from PSA if you want to buy a finished product. Still, with that space, you may want to go the DIY route to maximize your budget. You could get a nice dual 18" setup for the same price range if you go DIY, downside being you have to do all the leg work. If you decide on a large, single sub the v3600i is a beast and comes in right at your $2000 budget.
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post #7 of 34 Old 02-03-2017, 07:13 AM
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My 2 cents is Dual Hsu VTF-15H MKII's... For the price range Dr. Hsu makes a real nice product.
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post #8 of 34 Old 02-03-2017, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by jrittz View Post
My 2 cents is Dual Hsu VTF-15H MKII's... For the price range Dr. Hsu makes a real nice product.


100% agree. I did own the MK-I version for more than two years and was absolutely happy until the upgraditis struck.


Today, I can strongly recommend the PSA products since the HSU was replaced by two 'little' bigger brothers - couldn't be happier!


The V1800 exceed your budget, but there are also 15" versions available. Maybe you get a nice B-model and get a real deal, just talk to Tom V. in the chat on the PSA homepage.


Keep us posted!
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post #9 of 34 Old 02-03-2017, 07:30 AM
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My 2 cents is Dual Hsu VTF-15H MKII's... For the price range Dr. Hsu makes a real nice product.
While the VTF-15H MK2 is a solid choice, dual PSA 15V's would be about $230 cheaper and offer the same performance (based off shipping to Houston)
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post #10 of 34 Old 02-03-2017, 07:35 AM
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Several good choices in that price range...




HSU VTF3.5
PSA 15v
Rythmik FVx15
Seaton Turbo SS
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post #11 of 34 Old 02-03-2017, 11:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all of the input.

I thought I would end up with a ported sub but I sent my floor plan to Tom at PSA and ended up buying a pair of S1800's for $2049. I know they are down a bit from the V1500 (only +$50 more for a pair) at the very low end but I do still have two other subs that I can use crossed over very low for explosive action. I also ordered a miniDSP 2x4 HD for integration.
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post #12 of 34 Old 02-03-2017, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onetrack97 View Post
Thanks for all of the input.

I thought I would end up with a ported sub but I sent my floor plan to Tom at PSA and ended up buying a pair of S1800's for $2049. I know they are down a bit from the V1500 (only +$50 more for a pair) at the very low end but I do still have two other subs that I can use crossed over very low for explosive action. I also ordered a miniDSP 2x4 HD for integration.
I think you'll be very happy with your choice.
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post #13 of 34 Old 02-03-2017, 11:55 AM
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18's are all the rage!
You're going to have to jump on the bandwagon some time!
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post #15 of 34 Old 02-03-2017, 02:38 PM
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You're going to have to jump on the bandwagon some time!
Only if PSA or another company makes a down firing 18. Buying bigger subs and having to place them in non optimal locations would be a mistake.
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post #16 of 34 Old 02-03-2017, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onetrack97 View Post
Thanks for all of the input.

I thought I would end up with a ported sub but I sent my floor plan to Tom at PSA and ended up buying a pair of S1800's for $2049. I know they are down a bit from the V1500 (only +$50 more for a pair) at the very low end but I do still have two other subs that I can use crossed over very low for explosive action. I also ordered a miniDSP 2x4 HD for integration.


Surprised Tom recommended sealed subs for a 5000 cubic foot room.

A pair of ported 15s from HSU, PSA or Rythmik would have 2-4 times the output under 30hz and not be far off above that.

And you do realize that trying to integrate your much less powerful ported subs with sealed subs is not going to work well?

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2 of these:

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post #18 of 34 Old 02-03-2017, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Onetrack97 View Post
Thanks for all of the input.

I thought I would end up with a ported sub but I sent my floor plan to Tom at PSA and ended up buying a pair of S1800's for $2049.
Sorry to read this. You really could have done so much better with the PE kit and saved a couple of hundred bucks while you're at it. But I'm sure you will enjoy them. They are nice subs.

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Sorry to read this. You really could have done so much better with the PE kit and saved a couple of hundred bucks while you're at it. But I'm sure you will enjoy them. They are nice subs.
This is the first time I've ever read someone "could have done so much better" when referring to PSA. Obviously, building a sub from a bare bones kit and buying an already finished and well received product from a very respected company aren't even comparable. There are many reasons why even among AVS patrons, DIY builds aren't common. I'll leave it at that.

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Hey - I just recently moved a second PSA V1500 into the basement, 30X20 or so with 8 foot ceilings. I really thought the one sub was fine, until I hooked the second one up. I was astounded at the difference two subs made.
Just a thought from a new convert to dual subs!!
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post #22 of 34 Old 02-04-2017, 06:38 AM
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Done so much better? I highly doubt it....
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This is the first time I've ever read someone "could have done so much better" when referring to PSA. Obviously, building a sub from a bare bones kit and buying an already finished and well received product from a very respected company aren't even comparable. There are many reasons why even among AVS patrons, DIY builds aren't common. I'll leave it at that.
Better specs for the driver and amp, auto room correction built in the amp, can be adjusted via smart phone and/or PC, twice the power...Yeah, could have done so much better for hundreds less.

But as I said, I'm sure he will be happy with what he bought. I just personally believe he could have been so much happier for much less. Not to mention the shear satisfaction that he built them himself with his own two hands also plays a major role in the overall enjoyment. If you've never built something like this yourself, you'll never understand.

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post #23 of 34 Old 02-04-2017, 07:14 AM
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Only if PSA or another company makes a down firing 18. Buying bigger subs and having to place them in non optimal locations would be a mistake.
Non down-firing is a deal breaker for you? I am assuming pet or children issues?
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So, I could probably still change my order to dual V1500's before they ship. Do you think they are superior in every way? I realize that they should be 5 dB or so better below 30 Hz but a hair less from them above 30 Hz.

I will only use the older subs if they provide a real benefit. Might only turn them on for action movies, perhaps nearfield to the couch. Will use miniDSP to see what I can come up with.

Putting a speaker together isn't really that big a deal for me, done it before, just not that interested.
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post #25 of 34 Old 02-04-2017, 09:08 PM
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So, I could probably still change my order to dual V1500's before they ship. Do you think they are superior in every way? I realize that they should be 5 dB or so better below 30 Hz but a hair less from them above 30 Hz.

I will only use the older subs if they provide a real benefit. Might only turn them on for action movies, perhaps nearfield to the couch. Will use miniDSP to see what I can come up with.

Putting a speaker together isn't really that big a deal for me, done it before, just not that interested.
In a 5k cu ft room, you'll need about four S1800 to equal the below 30Hz response of just two V1500. Since you're mostly movies, I have a hard time recommending a sealed setup; unless you just don't listen loudly, then either sub will work. The difference will be substantial, as 6dB is a 100% increase or decrease in output.

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post #26 of 34 Old 02-05-2017, 12:17 AM - Thread Starter
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In a 5k cu ft room, you'll need about four S1800 to equal the below 30Hz response of just two V1500. Since you're mostly movies, I have a hard time recommending a sealed setup; unless you just don't listen loudly, then either sub will work. The difference will be substantial, as 6dB is a 100% increase or decrease in output.
While it is a 5000 cu. ft. space, it is 16 wide x 40 deep and the listening position is only 13 ft from the front wall, 10 ft. from the main speakers , doesn't that make a difference?

How loud do I listen, good question. I guess I need to find out.

I will try to change my order.

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post #27 of 34 Old 02-05-2017, 05:46 AM
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Go V1801's...Basically same size as V1500 overall.
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post #28 of 34 Old 02-05-2017, 06:51 AM
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Hi all,

While I understand a *general* rule of thumb is the larger the room the more likely a vented sub(at least from power Sound) may be the better choice to a lot of little details that can sway this pick one way or another. The room layout, intended placement of the subs, listening habits with both music and movies, seating position(s), distance between subs and the seating, the type of subs in use now, etc.

The size of the room only really matters in terms of pressure vessel effects---what we can expect for room gain. To predict headroom(clean output at the seating) it's largely irrelevant although we do need to consider the pressure vessel effect to some degree in that context.

If we're looking at say one sub in/near a corner of the room and one sub against one wall...and an avg of 12ft from the seating(this is a generic example---not sure how it applies here) dual S1800 subs should provide 109-112dB at the seats in the 16-25hz range. That's pretty loud for the 99% out there. And the dual S1800s would have the edge in the mid and upper bass. So with music, win for the dual S1800s for sure. With movies, arguments can be made either way.

If your listening session is limited to a few of the nuttiest <25hz scenes (which tend to be in the *worst* movies I don't know how you guys even sit through some of them.)...AND you're pushing the master volume levels above say -06 to -09(under reference) the dual V1500s will begin to offer more of the tactile sensation associated with those scenes+levels. The closer you push the system to full reference the more audible the advantage for the V1500s will be.

HOWEVER, settle in and watch an entire movie(again, at say -9dB under reference) and I would bet the dual S1800s would compare favorably to dual V1500s.

One more comment. I saw someone worried about the integration to the two existing subs. While that is always something to consider in this case the old "add ported to ported" rule of thumb doesn't really apply. We can just ignore the little infinity altogether. It's going to do more harm than good. The vmps is difficult to predict as its design is unconventional (one 12" active, one 15" active, one 15" pr) but given the limited knowledge I have on it---I'd guess that the dual S1800s OR V1500s would sound best without it.

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post #29 of 34 Old 02-05-2017, 08:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all of the info and analysis of the room plan that I sent you.

I doubt that the 2nd sub would work that well 25 ft behind the listening position especially with all of the windows at that end of the room. But, it's worth a few minutes to try. I continue to be surprised by what works.

I'm definitely only going to add the VMPS back in if there is some benefit and as you noted, it could make things worse. The small Infinity will likely go back into the other room it was in before I started playing with these upgrades.

Really looking forward to playing the new V1500's.

Thanks,
Scott
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post #30 of 34 Old 02-05-2017, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onetrack97 View Post
Thanks for all of the info and analysis of the room plan that I sent you.

I doubt that the 2nd sub would work that well 25 ft behind the listening position especially with all of the windows at that end of the room. But, it's worth a few minutes to try. I continue to be surprised by what works.

I'm definitely only going to add the VMPS back in if there is some benefit and as you noted, it could make things worse. The small Infinity will likely go back into the other room it was in before I started playing with these upgrades.

Really looking forward to playing the new V1500's.

Thanks,
Scott
Hi,

I have great respect for Tom, and everything he said made perfect sense to me. But, I'll admit that I do lean toward more ULF (<20Hz) SPL, and in a large room (where room gain doesn't start until about 20Hz, or so) I think that ported subs are a safer bet for HT applications. And, you did say that you were 70/30 movies to music. So, I like your choice to switch to the V1500's.

Regards,
Mike

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