I don't know how bass is supposed to sound... - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 140 Old 02-09-2017, 09:44 AM
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I don't know how bass is supposed to sound...

I think its worth requoting OP here. Suggestions about doing detailed measurements and buying multiple huge subs make sense, just not IMHO for this user. He's a family guy. I'm guessing has budget restraints. Maybe have WAF restraints, based on the fact I don't see the bookshelf surround speakers anywhere. Sooo... (emphasis added)

Quote:
Originally Posted by HarpNinja View Post
In a HT theater context, I don't know what a sub is supposed to sound like. I have a budget system with the Andrew Jones system. I know the sub is a weak point.



I tried a subwoofer crawl and ended up with the sub near the front left corner a few feet from the screen wall. For my late night viewing with Audyssey and Dynamic EQ, I get plenty of bass,..., but it feels a bit boomy.



...

Any help to a newb? I don't need super loud - I just want the bottom end to fill in and not overpower the room. My priority is late night listening when the kids are asleep. 99% movies and video games.



Thanks!
Do you have the SP-PK52FS Pioneer setup? Looks like it from your pics on page two of this thread.

The floor standing speakers look competent, but with only 5 1/4" woofers, they will not go down really low (IMHO). As nonsensical as it sounds, in the receiver's bass management option (if present) set even these big speakers to "small" which really just sends frequencies below the bass crossover to a sub. It is said to make the main speakers more efficient (they don't get tuckered out and overworked trying to make sounds their woofers aren't good at, AND lets them work on frequencies they ARE good at). It assigns LF along with ULF to a speaker (sub) which is designed specifically for those sounds.

I think someone mentioned turning off the dynamic EQ (Yamaha calls it Adaptive Dynamic Range Control, which limits the range of the amplitude of the sounds as the volume decreases). Probably a good idea for any critical listening. I wouldn't test-listen to booming movies like Roland Emmerich extravaganzas. Instead get a copy of Diana Krall's first album, Stepping Out. It has lots of lovely ULF bass energy, in addition to some nice drum solos. The family might like it, too.

Now if you have the SP-PK52FS, I know nothing about that sub's performance, but the Amazon description of 8" woofer doesn't tell me it can get very low. Maybe not get very loud. Even a Hsu VTF-1 (or PB-1000? Guys?) is likely an improvement. A Hsu VTF-2 or PB-2000 or equivalent will probably open your ears up to what you think you're missing. Maybe you can run that Pioneer sub down to next to the couch and turn it down, and it could be a sort of mid-bass module. Here's where Basshead and others experienced in placement, measurement, fine-tuning can help.

When you have one of these really capable subs in place, even in just the same place you have the Pioneer sub, you can do a test. Set all speakers small, set the bass crossover to 80 Hz (a THX default value). Turn off all EQ and bass/treble adjustments. Turn off dynamic anything. Just plain Jane "through" or straight. Play Diana Krall's "Between the Devil and the Deep Blue Sea" track. Now enable whatever Pioneer calls a "pure direct" mode which disables the bass management and plays all the music just through the left and right speakers. Is anything missing? THAT'S what the bass is supposed to sound like with the sub, the quality that you sense is missing. No scientific measurements required, you should hear even a slight difference in the drums and maybe the other instruments' lower harmonics. Go back to normal mode with bass mgmt sending low stuff to the sub.

Now turn the volume down to late evening level. You should still feel/hear that ULF from the drums, just not tickling your arm hairs. That's the difference between a 8" wannabe woofer and a 12" who's your daddy subwoofer: the bigger sub can move the air even if the volume isn't cranked. All this is just my unscientific opinion. Someone's going to come in and tell you I'm wrong. I don't care.

Now, you have kids, so I presume you have the BD or even DVD of Finding Nemo in the house....? Good. Play the scene towards the end when Darla ("Wake UP, Fishy!!") is banging on the fish tank with her finger. Generally regarded as a supremely obvious demonstration of ULF. IF you don't have it, but have Wall-E, how about the scene when Eve blasts the derelict tanker/cargo ships and they fall over like dominoes. Note that both of these scenes don't have a wide range of thundering Michael Bay nonsense going on, but some distinct ULF audio that you can hear and feel.

To your original question (topic title): I'll bet my next paycheck that you NOW know what bass is supposed to sound like.

Apologies if y'all think I've hijacked the thread. I personally think we're throwing way too much info at OP.

Hint: if you buy an SVS sub, you can send it back within the in-home audition period, no money risked. Hsu doesn't offer this last time I checked, BUT I and at least a few others confidently recommend their VTF line. I have a smaller room than yours, and the VTF-2 is plenty. Might work for you, or maybe the VTF-3. Did you tell us your budget or WAF restriction? I may've missed it.

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Last edited by ChromeJob; 02-09-2017 at 10:01 AM. Reason: Some minor grammatical and diction corrections
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post #62 of 140 Old 02-09-2017, 09:48 AM
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@ChromeJob summed things up nicely I think...
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post #63 of 140 Old 02-09-2017, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
And I beg to differ. That's all.


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Originally Posted by uniquepattern View Post
Whatever....
Okay, you two.....

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post #64 of 140 Old 02-09-2017, 10:57 AM
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Bass is supposed to sound like this: WUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUB WU.. WU.. WUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUB WUWUWUWUUWUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUB WUB.. WUB.. WUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUB.. WUWUWUUUUUUUUUUUB... WU.. WU.. WUUUUUUUUUUUB..... WUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUB
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post #65 of 140 Old 02-09-2017, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amnesia0287 View Post
Bass is supposed to sound like this: WUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUB WU.. WU.. WUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUB WUWUWUWUUWUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUB WUB.. WUB.. WUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUB.. WUWUWUUUUUUUUUUUB... WU.. WU.. WUUUUUUUUUUUB..... WUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUB

Hey, I know that song.... WUUUUUB WUUUUUUUUUUB WUB! WU WU WUBB
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post #66 of 140 Old 02-09-2017, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChromeJob View Post
Two cheap subs never equal the value of a single excellent sub Definitely start with one highly capable sub.

People who insist you need two IMHO cause a distraction from the value of one highly capable sub versus the cost of two on the same budget which -- if the budget is less than $750 -- results in diminished bass response. Not sure about the "requirement" to use REW and mics and a white lab coat for proper placement, there are articles with examples of default layout patterns.

My advice is to get the best sub you can for the money you want to spend. It will pay off in immediate improvement. You can think about evening out the coverage later when you feel the itch to spend more.
This is categorically bad advice. Do you know anything about acoustics at all? 80hz is 14ft long. By the time you are down to 20hz the length is 53 feet long, at 10hz we are all the way to 112ft. Unless your living room is literally an auditorium, or you spend like thousands, if not 10s of thousands of room acoustics and ridiculous diffusion, it is literally IMPOSSIBLE to get even bass response with a single subwoofer. You cannot argue with physics no matter how much our president might lead you to believe otherwise.

Now what you could do is optimize your entire system to a single listening point. But doing so would make a tiny sweetspot sounded by a big buffer of horrible bass in every direction, because to do so you would boost the nulls to match the peaks, the problem is, in other parts of the room, those nulls are peaks, which means when you boost them, they are now effing everest.

Neither of these options is good.

There is no "requirement" to use REW just as there is no "requirement" to use a subwoofer. But if you are going to spend the money on a decent stereo/ht, shouldn't you at least TRY to get the best performance you can out of it?

Your advice would be more viable if the OP was specifically looking to listen to bass at reference levels, but that is not generally what most people are ACTUALLY doing. If he is for example is going to listen at 30 under reference, well then why would he care if he gets a sub that can peak at 100db instead of 90db given that would be a PEAK volume of 85db. Given the choice between like two SB12-NSBs or a single SB13-Ultra, I think for MOST people, the dual SB12-NSBs would be the better option unless you are 100% planning to add a second sub later.

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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
Why would that generally be true? You simply want a sub that can move the required amount of air. Doesn't matter if sealed or ported. Ported has the disadvantage of easily being driven into overexcursion when (automated) EQ is used without the user knowing what he's doing.
Most subwoofers have protection, and given how low the actual port tune is on most of them these days, there isn't really that much sound down there anyway. As to why ported is generally better for single subwoofers especially in larger spaces. Once again... Physics... Ported subwoofers are by design more efficient, because as you approach port tune, the woofer is doing less work as the helmholtz resonator takes over. With sealed subwoofers you are far more dependent on boundary reinforcement as well woofersize/excursion on how low you can go, but there will always be natural rolloff which means you either need multiple subwoofers to match the low end output of the ported subwoofer or you need a bigger or more powerful woofer or one with much greater excursion to match the same output of a ported subwoofer.

I say this as someone with dual Funk 18.0cs. I love my sealed subwoofers, but that doesn't mean they are right for everyone nor that ported woofers are bad.

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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
Again, why generally ported (your claim)? Do you know his SPL and low end requirements? Have you seen any measurements of his specific room?
I think it's safe to say OP isn't in an acoustically treated amphitheater. You can argue all you want, at this price point a ported sub is going to provide flatter response from 20-80hz because no small woofer has the output to match a ports output. In ANY room. For example, the SB13-Ultra drops 12db from 31.5hz to 20hz. The PB13-Ultra drops 4-5db in either of the ported modes.

Lets use the SB12-NSD. It has 92db at 20hz. That is absolute max output before distortion makes it unusable at all. that means at absolute max volume, the most you can do is 23db under reference. We are going to be kind and say we get 10db of room gain, that brings us to 13db below reference, that's not horrible, until you consider what that actually means. Lets say we play a 20-31.5hz sweep at 100db (15db below reference), so lets say you calibrate and by luck 20hz is between peaks and nulls at MLP. Great, the problem is two fold, first at 31.5hz, we are up to 101db BEFORE room gain, which we can correct with EQ, but the second problem is even if you match output between frequencies, MLP may well be in a null for 25hz and a peak for 31.5hz. That swing could be anywhere from like 3db-10db in either direction, which means as your sweep occurs, you will drop lets say 5db from 20-25hz, but then from 25-31.5hz, you would then swing 10db the other way (double volume).

This is BAD. And this is what dual subwoofers correct. There isn't reallly a way to argue it reasonably.
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post #67 of 140 Old 02-09-2017, 11:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ChromeJob View Post
Okay, you two.....
Thanks for the great post! I am leaning hard towards the VTF-2 MK5 as I am more familiar with HSU and SVS than some other brands.
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post #68 of 140 Old 02-09-2017, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarpNinja View Post
Thanks for the great post! I am leaning hard towards the VTF-2 MK5 as I am more familiar with HSU and SVS than some other brands.


Do you feel as though you received some decent advice???


We would be happy to discuss it even more if you would like.... I like what @amnesia0287 said about not everyone listening or even needing reference level bass - I think the concept escapes us sometimes....
I don't know about you guys, but I would be sad if my subs couldn't crack drywall at full tilt (and it has in my house - many times) but Im a little crazy....

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post #69 of 140 Old 02-09-2017, 12:05 PM
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From what i've read you looking for the best bang for your buck. Also looks like your somewhat comfortable with woodworking. May I suggest a read at this thread :https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...gn-thread.html

That will get you dual 18" subs for $500. Will blow away anything else listed in your budget by far. $200 for drivers, $200 for the amp and $100 for the MDF, glue, ports, connectors, and etc. Would require a little elbow grease, but this will go far.
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post #70 of 140 Old 02-09-2017, 12:09 PM
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I don't know how bass is supposed to sound...

Quote:
Originally Posted by amnesia0287 View Post
This is categorically bad advice.

...

There isn't reallly a way to argue it reasonably.
See? I knew someone would come in to tell me that I'm wrong, wrong, wrong. Whatever. Do what the Dr says, and you'll have glorious bass, and your wife will divorce you for ruining the kids' play room.



"There isn't really a way to argue it reasonably." I'll presume that applies to every side of the argument,... including yours. Unless this catch phrase is meant to just shut the other "unreasonable" people up.


Harp ninja: The advice I provided has been successful for me. But clearly I'm an idiot who knows nothing about acoustics, so please listen to the experts and spend what they tell you to spend. O_o


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post #71 of 140 Old 02-09-2017, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by uniquepattern View Post
I don't know about you guys, but I would be sad if my subs couldn't crack drywall at full tilt (and it has in my house - many times) but Im a little crazy....
But that isn't what he wants (me, neither, for that matter).
And there's only one MLP of interest.
So the one sub he's considering will be more than adequate.

Harp: Call them and see if they have any B-stock.
Michael
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post #72 of 140 Old 02-09-2017, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
But that isn't what he wants (me, neither, for that matter).
And there's only one MLP of interest.
So the one sub he's considering will be more than adequate.

Harp: Call them and see if they have any B-stock.
Michael

I stated that's not what he is looking for about 20 posts back.... And recently clarified that Im Crazy (as in - its not for everyone - the other point of my recent post)
I meant to imply that not everyone wants/needs mental levels of bass to enjoy their setup.... and that sometimes those of us that do love insane amounts of bass loose site of that fact....
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post #73 of 140 Old 02-09-2017, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uniquepattern View Post
I stated that's not what he is looking for about 20 posts back.... And recently clarified that Im Crazy (as in - its not for everyone - the other point of my recent post)
I meant to imply that not everyone wants/needs mental levels of bass to enjoy their setup.... and that sometimes those of us that do love insane amounts of bass loose site of that fact....
I agree, most casual listeners have no idea those last few hz are missing as they have never heard it before anyway.


He is not looking to get the last db or lowest hz possible...just some good not boomy bass.

Given his audiophile level, budget, room size and what he was saying.......

I bet either the 500 buck sub or IMHO 2 of the 15 inch 200 buck subs would satisfy his stated needs/wants at this time.

In a room that big you need to move some air, one 12 incher, no matter how good....not talking audible lowest frequencies or flattest response, a single 12, will do what 2 seperate 15`s will do.

I think based off of what he has said his needs are.......any choice will result in satisfaction and a drastic step up.


The 2 sides of the coin in this situation are.....

The more expensive model will give a flatter response curve and more low end extension..........which he may or may not like/need/or notice.

The cheap 15 incher will fill the room a little more and will not have as flat a chart and will not go as low and also will be of a lower quality.........but at a 60% cheaper price.

I think any step up will be a improvement and no one but the OP will ever be able to say what is adequate for his tastes.

This might be the first step on the way to a wall of woofers or the last step and end the search untill the new one fails.

His stated needs were not lower extention, more DB or a flatter curve........it was that the current one sounds boomy at the level he likes, which means it is more than likely too small for the desired results.

It could be ideally located to eliminate the boomy soud, but will never reach the levels minimally needed in that room.
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Link to Stereo Integrity SI HT 18 sub build......https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...-pedestal.html

Theater house build.....https://www.avsforum.com/forum/15-ge...hed-house.html
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post #74 of 140 Old 02-09-2017, 01:52 PM
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One subwoofer cannot produce accurate sound? Really?
Perhaps not above reference in an auditorium, but at moderate levels behind an MLP, I'm pretty sure any of the new subs he's considering will be "accurate."
Michael
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post #75 of 140 Old 02-09-2017, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
One subwoofer cannot produce accurate sound? Really?
Perhaps not above reference in an auditorium, but at moderate levels behind an MLP, I'm pretty sure any of the new subs he's considering will be "accurate."
Michael
And you would be wrong. Read up on room modes.
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post #76 of 140 Old 02-09-2017, 03:01 PM
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He's sitting in one spot. Should be able to get accurate sound there. As long as he's not wandering around the room.
The point, of course, is that the sub is accurate, but the room is not.
Harp: Buy one of those subs, you'll be VERY happy.
Michael
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So if he wanted to go DIY, what is the best bang for the buck he could get?
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post #78 of 140 Old 02-09-2017, 03:26 PM
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Of the many suggestions you will get (and discussed in many other threads), here's one:
http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/THT.html
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I am also into photography...I never hear so many questions for best bang for the buck and arguments over resolution or specs...why is stereo stuff so argued over and people so worried about diy/value/cheap? buy the best tool for the job. who wants 20cuft boxes in a home?

Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300 LG oled c9 77
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post #80 of 140 Old 02-09-2017, 04:29 PM
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So I guess there is only one camera on the planet that is the "best tool for the job"?

There are several people here who actually have more than one 20 cu ft box in their home. I'm not fortunate enough to be one of them, but that doesn't mean I don't understand their obsession.
Apparently, you don't think your three subs are overkill. If you had been able to DIY all of them for 1/3 what you paid, wouldn't you be happy about that?
But this poor soul is just looking to move up from one mediocre 8" sub to something better. Any one of the subs he's narrowed it down to will be fine, and several come with a return policy (though shipping a sub is not cheap).
And he shouldn't be worried about adding three more subs in the future or shattering the sheetrock.
Michael
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unretarded View Post
... He is not looking to get the last db or lowest hz possible...just some good not boomy bass.

Given his audiophile level, budget, room size and what he was saying.......
THANK YOU. Precisely what I was trying to get to without being too Dr. Bunson Honeydew.

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Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
... But this poor soul is just looking to move up from one mediocre 8" sub to something better. Any one of the subs he's narrowed it down to will be fine, and several come with a return policy (though shipping a sub is not cheap).
And he shouldn't be worried about adding three more subs in the future or shattering the sheetrock.
Michael
Preach it, brother.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amnesia0287 View Post
... If you don't think that accuracy is important, that's fine, you are entitled to be okay with inaccurate sound. But this post was about accurate bass, one subwoofer CAN NOT do that. You might not be bothered by the inaccuracies, you may even prefer them, but accuracy is not a preference.
No. That is not what this thread is about. Start rereading from the first post.

Last edited by ChromeJob; 02-09-2017 at 05:11 PM.
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post #83 of 140 Old 02-09-2017, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarpNinja View Post
Not bad at all for the money, assuming its in decent working condition. Should be a good bit better than what you have. As to whether it would fix boomy bass, it really depends what is causing it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChromeJob View Post
No. That is not what this thread is about. Start rereading from the first post.
Boomy bass is inaccurate bass, OP wants to remove inaccuracies. From the OP:
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarpNinja View Post
Any help to a newb? I don't need super loud - I just want the bottom end to fill in and not overpower the room. My priority is late night listening when the kids are asleep. 99% movies and video games.
Do you know what the other effect of EQing the MLP to certain frequencies is? You are over-driving the nulls which means you are using SPL to fill inaccuracy. Not exactly ideal for low volume listening as this means to play a note in a -5db null, you have to play it 5db louder, which means your peaks are now +10db louder than your listening position.... For those of us paying attention this means that in many parts of your room as well as in some of the other rooms, the bass is now as loud as it would be if you were listening to the MLP at 80db with no EQ.

This is measurements from one and both of my subwoofers (blue is one, green is two):



There are a few different things that can cause boomy bass, poor impulse response and resonance are definitely possibilities, but I would wager in general most boomy bass would be caused for example by a bass note where the attack was at the blue arrow and the end of the note was at the yellow arrow. At lower volumes, you may not even hear the attack as if you are listening at 55db, the attack would have only been 40db. So all you hear is "the boom". If you want to maximize the quality of the bass at low volumes without doubling the amount of noise you are producing, especially when your focus is NOT on peak output, I don't see how two decent subs is not a better answer than one great one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
He's sitting in one spot. Should be able to get accurate sound there. As long as he's not wandering around the room.
The point, of course, is that the sub is accurate, but the room is not.
Harp: Buy one of those subs, you'll be VERY happy.
Michael
First problem, as mentioned above, you cannot magically EQ nulls without also eqing their corresponding peaks, which means you could very well be doubling the overall SPL of a given effect for your room with no audible difference at the MLP. This is undesirable when you are listening at night trying to be quiet. But secondly, there are different peaks and nulls for every frequency and they can at all different positions, so you may well have a peak for one note to your left and a null for another to your right. You can absolutely get accurate sound at a single fixed point, but unless you are deaf in one ear, you can't actually listen to sound that way and certainly not without compromising the SQ and SPL of the rest of the room.
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post #84 of 140 Old 02-09-2017, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarpNinja View Post
That is a good deal. If it is close to a PSA XV15 that is impressive for $350, would be hard to beat that if it is true.

"Geoff ranked the PC12-NSD right up there with the Power Sound Audio XV15, saying that the two sounded “very, very similar” with music and that the XV15 had just a slight edge on Terminator 2.

I, too, had a hard time finding the sonic dissimilarities between the PC12-NSD and the XV15. Played at a reasonable level (96 dB peak) with Steely Dan’s “Aja” (my favorite test of a subwoofer’s tunefulness), the PC12-NSD sounded close enough to the XV15 that moving either sub 2 feet made a bigger difference than switching subs.

To reveal a performance difference between the two, I had to set the bar very high: running Attack of the Clones and the Organ Symphony as loud as I could stand to listen. While I measured 115 dB from both subs in my listening chair, the XV15’s deepest notes sounded cleaner. But I never would’ve heard this difference had I not pushed the system to an insane volume."


Read more at http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...S4uMLB0SZcF.99
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post #85 of 140 Old 02-09-2017, 06:55 PM
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well i know there is a differece between a sealed 12, ported 15 and ported 12...they all different and sound different. you just need to experiment with what you have. all 3 together or just one of them i can make sound great...it just takes time. what sounds the best for everyday listening? my 20 year old hgs 12 imo...for loud rock and roll the new hp15. the hp15 vibrates my whole house....good or bad

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post #86 of 140 Old 02-09-2017, 07:43 PM
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The pc12-nsd for sale is mine. It's in great shape and still under SVS warranty.
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post #87 of 140 Old 02-09-2017, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bscool View Post
That is a good deal. If it is close to a PSA XV15 that is impressive for $350, would be hard to beat that if it is true.

"Geoff ranked the PC12-NSD right up there with the Power Sound Audio XV15, saying that the two sounded “very, very similar” with music and that the XV15 had just a slight edge on Terminator 2.

I, too, had a hard time finding the sonic dissimilarities between the PC12-NSD and the XV15. Played at a reasonable level (96 dB peak) with Steely Dan’s “Aja” (my favorite test of a subwoofer’s tunefulness), the PC12-NSD sounded close enough to the XV15 that moving either sub 2 feet made a bigger difference than switching subs.

To reveal a performance difference between the two, I had to set the bar very high: running Attack of the Clones and the Organ Symphony as loud as I could stand to listen. While I measured 115 dB from both subs in my listening chair, the XV15’s deepest notes sounded cleaner. But I never would’ve heard this difference had I not pushed the system to an insane volume."


Read more at http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...S4uMLB0SZcF.99
I would say that review is fairly accurate being I have owned both...They both sound good but the XV has more horsepower, deeper extension, and significantly more mid bass slam ...Also the NSD subs have a 48db per octave slope where the XV15 is 24db.
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post #88 of 140 Old 02-10-2017, 05:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Last night I watched Ghostbusters: Answer the Call. Not everyone's favorite movie, but there is a range of dynamics. I ended up with Dynamic Volume OFF and as much as I tried, I preferred Dynamic EQ on. The sound for that movie at late night was solid - good surround and clearly audible dialogue. What that movie doesn't have, though, is bass rumble through out like some action movies.

If every movie was mixed the dialogue like that, I'd never need Dynamic Volume. I will keep trying to NOT use DV from now on. The peaks in that movie weren't such that I worried it would wake people up, but the bass isn't out of hand either.

An additional 2 sub question....where might I try placing them? If you look at the pics from the back of the room towards the screen, I could get away with one by the front right and back left speakers? As much as I'd like to get to two subs regardless of which kind, placement will be a consideration.

It would make sense that I have uneven bass and that is an additional issue with rumble throughout the house.
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post #89 of 140 Old 02-10-2017, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarpNinja View Post
An additional 2 sub question....where might I try placing them?
Where they produce the smoothest response and/or highest output and/or lowest spatial variance. You would need to measure and use tools like MSO.
Some papers that might help:
http://www.harman.com/sites/default/...s/multsubs.pdf
http://www.harman.com/sites/default/...dioScience.pdf

Probably more rewarding first to experiment with a near field setup before you dive deeper and/or spend money...
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post #90 of 140 Old 02-10-2017, 09:07 AM
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I don't know how bass is supposed to sound...

Quote:
Originally Posted by HarpNinja View Post
Last night I watched Ghostbusters: Answer the Call. Not everyone's favorite movie, but there is a range of dynamics. I ended up with Dynamic Volume OFF and as much as I tried, I preferred Dynamic EQ on. The sound for that movie at late night was solid - good surround and clearly audible dialogue. What that movie doesn't have, though, is bass rumble through out like some action movies...
Not sure what the Dynamic EQ does on your AVR, what was the model # again? What does the manual say? (Don't go digging for the paper unless it's at hand. You're at a computer. You can probably download it. I keep several manuals in iCloud/iBooks and Google Drive.)



Without knowing what movies you have, it's hard to suggest a test film/track. If you're interested, you can create an account at blu-ray.com. Then install the Blu-ray.com My Movies app for iOS or Android, then scan the UPCs of all the movies you have and it will build a database of your actual movies+releases, that we can scan for some demo examples. Here's mine, for instance, you can browse and tell me if I've got something that you have....



Quote:
Originally Posted by HarpNinja View Post
... An additional 2 sub question....where might I try placing them? If you look at the pics from the back of the room towards the screen, I could get away with one by the front right and back left speakers? As much as I'd like to get to two subs regardless of which kind, placement will be a consideration.



It would make sense that I have uneven bass and that is an additional issue with rumble throughout the house.
I have to agree with the Bunson Honeydew types, when you start gearing up to two subs, you probably want to start doing measurements. One o' those fancy mics and that REW software. But....



Several sites have some helpful guides, here's a site that a member here convinced me to do deep reading on. I find their advice isn't too technical to appreciate and apply.



http://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-setup

tl;dr: Two sub placement guide

Subwoofer crawl tip



I don't think anyone's going to "win" the recommendation battle of one bad-a** sub versus two subs for your room. If your budget is $1200 or more, you could get two pretty darn good subs together. If you want to spend < $1000, then it becomes a debate. I want to get off that merry-go-round. I still think for $600ish you can get a single really good sub that will at least serve your MLP on that couch, even late at night with volume attenuated. Some IDs (Internet direct-to-market) vendors will let you do a home audition and return for free (a big deal when you're shipping subwoofer cabinets!). If you try one or two from such an ID you can see for yourself. I know SVS does it. SVS doesn't make bad subwoofers, they have many fans and get good reviews. Some owners and reviewers think other IDs offer better $-to-performance value.



Considering the heated debate here, and your lack of certainty (not to mention future splurge money for adding subs), I think you should do an in-home audition from an ID that offers that. Spend what you're comfortable spending. Perhaps order on the billing close date of your credit card so you have 30 days to play and then return before you're liable for the entire purchase amount (clever use of financing).

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Last edited by ChromeJob; 02-10-2017 at 09:36 AM.
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