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post #91 of 130 Old 02-27-2017, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
Not sure if the Cap1400 has more port wind than ofher ported sub out there as no one ever compares that.
How do you describe the air existing your FV15HPs?

My Energy S12.3s have 2 round, down firing ports that will blow away any paper nearby.

Do slot ports have more air velocity than round ports?

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post #92 of 130 Old 02-27-2017, 08:48 AM
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^^ don't know how to describe it but there are lots of air coming out of that thing but i could say the same thing for all of the ported sub i have heard. I never could go sealed for this one reason. There was a youtube video showing the FV15 blowing off a candle sitting 5-6ft away. There was also that original Captivator blowing the blanket by Archaea here.
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Do slot ports have more air velocity than round ports?
I don't think so. I think it depends on how low of a frequency and how loud it is playing. The lower the frequency, the more air coming out of the port. All else equal and with the same port volume, there might be the same amount of air coming out of the port but I think there is probably more air coming out of a tube port than the rectangular port just due to there is more turbulence inside a round tube than rectangular one.

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post #93 of 130 Old 02-27-2017, 10:20 AM
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Wind speed, as long as it is not so high as to cause turbulence within the straight section of the tube, is reason to celebrate because all else being equaled, it's a reflection of the low frequency and output capability of the subwoofer.

Turbulence is bad because it causes a phase shift of the tube output, reducing its contribution (port compression). So at the same time that we praise the wind speed of the JTR 1400, its CEA-2010 should be examined for output. (We are ok there :-).)

The reason wind speed increases so much with low frequency is that every octave drop causes excursion to increase 4 times. So from 60 to 30 to 15 hz, your driver's excursion has increased 16 times (imagine the requirement). Same with output: 6 dB gain for 2 times the excursion. It is because of this excursion requirement that subwoofers that dig deep such as JTR 1400, 2400, and 4000 all have very high xmax (33 mm) and motor strength.
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post #94 of 130 Old 02-27-2017, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by LFE Junkie View Post
Chucky7, are you running your sub volume at 12oclock? What is your LF knob set to? Just curious cause of the review.
I have the Cap 1400 gain at 12 o'clock, LF Adjust @ Max ( 2015 Cap 1400 LF Adjust is +/-6 dB, and 2016 Caps are cut only). Sub trim on AVR is +3 dB.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 02-27-2017 at 10:51 AM.
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post #95 of 130 Old 02-27-2017, 10:47 AM
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Initially we had the Cap 1400 @ 11 o'clock from the MLP and the PSA 3000i @ 10 o'clock. This is when we roughly level-matched them with REW. Then we replaced Cap 1400 with PSA 3000i (9 ft from MLP) and moved the Cap 1400 to the other front 1/4 wall position (11.5 ft from MLP), between center and right channel. We did not run auto calibration for the subs at these spots.

First we played music videos (Eagles - California Live at Sydney and Justin Bieber - Baby) @ -17.5 MV. I did not play any MVs last time when bulls was here. When I was playing Justin Bieber - Baby, both Marc and bulls got up and started walking around the room and even stood behind the MLP. I have been saying that the bass is very potent in this video. .

For movies clips we played @ -12.5 MV. First it was the Irene Scene from Black Hawk Down (just for me to see what the fuss was all about, LOL), then the first 40 seconds of Edge of Tomorrow. I was very surprised that from 20~30 Hz, the Cap 1400 was hitting 125 dB and the the PSA S3000i was hitting 120 dB. Never did I know I was anywhere near reference level much less above it. This was where we heard the chuffing. To get a better sense of how the subs would handle bass in movies not mixed at crazy levels, we watched the Hulk vs Abomination scene from The Incredible Hulk. Finally, we played the Washington Monument Scene from Olympus Has Fallen and the Grenade scene in World War Z.

Marc was grinning from ear to ear bombarded by the Cap1400 wind!
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Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

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post #96 of 130 Old 02-27-2017, 03:33 PM
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@chucky I didn't want to out you about the Bieber demo. At least it featured Ludacris!

Honestly though, The Eagles sounded amazing on his system. The trumpets sounded more lifelike on his system than mine (my Mirage OMD-28s excell more with the string instruments). I think many people underestimate the importance of matched (in his case identical) drivers all around. Properly setup 5.1 stomps all over cobbled together 7.1. Also, again the notion that ported is not good for music was debunked. The PSA sounded great too. It was a tad tighter but I have to give the edge to the JTR because of the extra tactile oomph it provided.

Because I have TTs and a small room, sealed was the right choice for me. However, what I have achieved with four sealed 15" drivers I could have with two ported 18"s and not needed the TTs (giving up on 10Hz).

If I had the proper room and the budget, I believe a Cap1400 combined with a 2400 or 4000 ULF would provide the best overall experience (including 10Hz though) without needing TTs or TMAs.

My opinion on two subs vs one hasn't changed. Two is better than one… in MOST cases. @bulls I can assist you in dialing in two subs, ported or sealed. @chucky7 I think you are fine with the single in its new position, just add a MiniDSP EQ to tame those peaks.
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post #97 of 130 Old 02-27-2017, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
@chucky I didn't want to out you about the Bieber demo. At least it featured Ludacris!

Honestly though, The Eagles sounded amazing on his system. The trumpets sounded more lifelike on his system than mine (my Mirage OMD-28s excell more with the string instruments). I think many people underestimate the importance of matched (in his case identical) drivers all around. Properly setup 5.1 stomps all over cobbled together 7.1.
Actually, I don't have identical speakers all around.

I have Polk LSiM 703 as fronts and Polk RTi A3s as surrounds. They were a blind buy during Polk's Friends and Families sale. I got the RTi A3s to save $$$. Polk RTi A3's FR shows an elevated top end. In fact, some people consider Polk RTi A3s fatiguing.

Not that I don't like the RTi A3s, I think it was more of the right material in the right situation. You liked the direct radiating RTiA3 playing trumpets at the beginning of Eagles Hotel California. You probably won't feel that way had I played some string instruments.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 03-01-2017 at 05:51 PM.
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post #98 of 130 Old 02-27-2017, 08:24 PM - Thread Starter
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it was interesting to compare the 2 types
i think i heard more detail from the sealed
but the impact of the ported was another experience, and the wind blast adds another ...dimension

so ... i dont know yet...

i will see if i can do a ported vs sealed in my new room... but im concerned about having enough time to setup returns for what i dont keep, tho i could try to sell them

or i get a sealed and a ported ...and see if i can make them work together (yes i know its nearly impossible)
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post #99 of 130 Old 02-27-2017, 08:56 PM
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Dual Fv15hp in one port 12.5hz mode? If the S2 is a WAF no go dual S1's?
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post #100 of 130 Old 02-27-2017, 09:14 PM
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I have flat bass capability down to 5-10hz depending on the measurement gear with my eight 18"s. On a basement slab 10hz is pretty worthless IMO. Just making the house groan, but not much tactile feel and is masked in real world content by all the higher frequencies.

~14 or ~15 hz and above are all that matter to me in my testing and experiences in a basement slab home theater room. I wouldn't hesitate to use that as a recommend pursuit point instead of 10hz for most rooms/systems.

If I was on a suspended wooden floor Id likely get more enjoyment out of the ultra low stuff than on the concrete slab, but that's what the nearfield subs are for.

Lots of good options in this thread. WAF should be secondary to sound IMO.

There's some fun reading from our recent crawl about bass system choices and objective measurements vs subjective feedback post 1113

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/61-are...l#post50936249

The crawl attendees got to experience some nice bass systems and the Captivator 4000ULF showed up for a demo in three difflferent houses during the crawl. I'm telling you honestly, multiple people on that crawl have eight 18"s In their home systems and all of us are super impressed with the 4000ulf. That included bass hounds @d_c , @popalock , @Gorilla83 , @beastaudio , @carp , and myself. The 4000 is a BEAST, and frankly, probably overkill for a smaller room like the original posters. However, the 2400ULF might be just the ticket for the original poster - Or a pair of them.

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(13) JBL CBT 70j-1 | Denon x7200wa | Sherbourn PA 7-350 amplifier | (8) Ultimax 18" sealed subwoofers | (4) iNuke DSP 6000 amplifiers | (4) MB Quart 12" subwoofers mounted direct mounted to Berkline theater chairs BOSS style | Epson 5040UB Projector | Jamestown 144" acoustic transparent 2.35:1 screen w/ Seymour XD fabric

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post #101 of 130 Old 02-27-2017, 10:38 PM
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That is because the twin 18's in the ported 4000 ULF will act like 8 18s around tune. If you port an 18 it gains 9-15dbs depending on enclosure and room. That is like 4 sealed of the same 18. Of course the huge advantage is that above 40hz it is now 2 18s vs 8 and the sealed 18s win there. It all makes perfect sense.
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post #102 of 130 Old 08-23-2017, 11:19 PM - Thread Starter
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omg ... now i have the 10 hurtz... and i cant really hear it ... the umik says its there, and below... but to me its like pressure in my ears and if i turn it up it kinda hurtz ...

display - vizio p65
AVR x4300h +lepai 2ch amp = 7.2.4
L/C/R - Chane 2.4, SURROUND - dayton 3in cubes *temporary
BASS - 2x Seaton F18 + JTR 1400 "the wind machine" (not port noise)
2100 ft^3
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post #103 of 130 Old 08-23-2017, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by bulls View Post
omg ... now i have the 10 hurtz... and i cant really hear it ... the umik says its there, and below... but to me its like pressure in my ears and if i turn it up it kinda hurtz ...
Are you kidding or not? Sometimes. I just can't tell.
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post #104 of 130 Old 08-23-2017, 11:51 PM - Thread Starter
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im not. i was doing some CEA bursts last night ~90dB... cone was moving, i was feeling pressure and uncomfortable in the ear... but i dont think i heard it... 12 hz seemed audible to me...
ill have to test this weekend during the day to make sure
i'm just concerned now i might have limited hearing :P

ok... i did it again. i turned it up. if umik correct 103 db @ 10hz... mostly pressure ... 105db @ 11 hz i hear more, 12 definitely
... wife sleeping. dont wanna wake her up with more testing

display - vizio p65
AVR x4300h +lepai 2ch amp = 7.2.4
L/C/R - Chane 2.4, SURROUND - dayton 3in cubes *temporary
BASS - 2x Seaton F18 + JTR 1400 "the wind machine" (not port noise)
2100 ft^3
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post #105 of 130 Old 08-24-2017, 05:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulls View Post
im not. i was doing some CEA bursts last night ~90dB... cone was moving, i was feeling pressure and uncomfortable in the ear... but i dont think i heard it... 12 hz seemed audible to me...
ill have to test this weekend during the day to make sure
i'm just concerned now i might have limited hearing :P

ok... i did it again. i turned it up. if umik correct 103 db @ 10hz... mostly pressure ... 105db @ 11 hz i hear more, 12 definitely
... wife sleeping. dont wanna wake her up with more testing
10hz typically can't be heard, only felt. Generally the only way you know it's happening is because it's shaking something in your house or in your body.
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post #106 of 130 Old 08-24-2017, 11:49 PM
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I can't hear below 16Hz @ 110dB. Anything you are hearing below 16Hz may just be harmonic distortion.
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post #107 of 130 Old 08-25-2017, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulls View Post
im not. i was doing some CEA bursts last night ~90dB... cone was moving, i was feeling pressure and uncomfortable in the ear... but i dont think i heard it... 12 hz seemed audible to me...
ill have to test this weekend during the day to make sure
i'm just concerned now i might have limited hearing :P

ok... i did it again. i turned it up. if umik correct 103 db @ 10hz... mostly pressure ... 105db @ 11 hz i hear more, 12 definitely
... wife sleeping. dont wanna wake her up with more testing
Sorry for making sure your F18s were so low in distortion. High distortion products at 20 Hz & 30 Hz are much more audible if playing simple sine waves. When I'm testing a subwoofer, a great indicator is when you can move a good deal of air with the woofers but you feel more effect than hear sound. Playing a tone it really should be rather quiet to the ear, especially at moderate levels.

The purpose of having extension to 10Hz isn't to listen to sine waves or bursts. The benefit is to enhance the scale, weight, excitement, and realism of the soundtrack or music. I've played with the Thigpen Rotary woofer a few times, and having that energy present is certainly a desirable addition. The lowest range is not subjectively loud though. For most soundtracks, subjectively low & loud drums, explosions, and effects gain that quality from energy in the 25-35Hz range. You need the entire range to make it sound real and impactful with detail, but the very low frequency energy is much more like strong punctuation on the soundtrack, not the primary content.

When it comes to dialing in the exact level and energy from your subwoofer, be sure to start with dynamic EQ and dynamic volume off, and listen at the higher range of where you will be listening. Soundtracks with a range of percussive sounds and instruments like drums, bass guitar, gunfire, explosions, and other heavy shuddering give you a mix covering most of the subwoofer spectrum. The F18 has an LF Adjust knob which you can tinker with back and forth with the level, and then even making some adjustments to the LCR speaker crossover in your surround processor.

Broken into simple terms, the gain/level give you more overall intensity. Increase this until the bass starts to slightly cloud the dialog, and then back down slightly from there. Next play with the LF Adjust, starting by making changes of ~2 notches on the dial at a time. Clockwise will give more heft, weight, and shuddering effects, but too much will loose detail in the bass and deliver to much rumbling or shaking, and not enough impact and detail. You can even turn the dial down 1-2 notches while increasing the gain/level to shift the balance back some. The best setting will depend on your room's acoustic qualities, the in-room response, general listening level, what any auto-EQ did to the response, capability of the main speakers, and of course your overall preference. You can see some graphs demonstrating how the same control works on the SubMersive here on our forum. Finally, before settling on a final level, if raising the subwoofer level any further negatively impacts male voices and overall detail, try lowering the crossover frequency to your main speakers by one increment, or 5-15Hz. After lowering the crossover frequency, go back and listen while increasing the level again and going up/down 1-2 notches on the LF Adjust dial as well.

Be sure to make one adjustment at a time, starting with more significant changes and then honing in on the balance that you like best. For me, How to Train Your Dragon's opening and ending battle works wonderfully to cover all the bases with clear dialog, sharp explosions, on to heavy beating wings of dragons, and big rumbling explosions.

I have yet to calibrate a system with measurements that I didn't decide to make subtle or even not so subtle adjustments when I do final listening. It's your system and be sure to make yourself happy with the result.

Mark Seaton
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post #108 of 130 Old 08-25-2017, 08:10 PM - Thread Starter
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oh dont get me wrong Mark.
I got your subs because of what i heard at Marc's.
detail, clarity.

i just thought i have super-hearing ;P

and i definitely can tell the clarity & difference between the tones 10-11-12 etc, it was actually reassured that i made the right choice

i know sine waves is not the point of having a speaker/sub... but my subs can also play sine waves nicely ...without ridiculous ch... errr... distortion

even music or movies with scenes 20 -25-30-40 hz sounds much better, detailed, and cleaner on Seatons from what i had before.

display - vizio p65
AVR x4300h +lepai 2ch amp = 7.2.4
L/C/R - Chane 2.4, SURROUND - dayton 3in cubes *temporary
BASS - 2x Seaton F18 + JTR 1400 "the wind machine" (not port noise)
2100 ft^3
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post #109 of 130 Old 08-25-2017, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post
Sorry for making sure your F18s were so low in distortion. High distortion products at 20 Hz & 30 Hz are much more audible if playing simple sine waves. When I'm testing a subwoofer, a great indicator is when you can move a good deal of air with the woofers but you feel more effect than hear sound. Playing a tone it really should be rather quiet to the ear, especially at moderate levels.

The purpose of having extension to 10Hz isn't to listen to sine waves or bursts. The benefit is to enhance the scale, weight, excitement, and realism of the soundtrack or music. I've played with the Thigpen Rotary woofer a few times, and having that energy present is certainly a desirable addition. The lowest range is not subjectively loud though. For most soundtracks, subjectively low & loud drums, explosions, and effects gain that quality from energy in the 25-35Hz range. You need the entire range to make it sound real and impactful with detail, but the very low frequency energy is much more like strong punctuation on the soundtrack, not the primary content.

When it comes to dialing in the exact level and energy from your subwoofer, be sure to start with dynamic EQ and dynamic volume off, and listen at the higher range of where you will be listening. Soundtracks with a range of percussive sounds and instruments like drums, bass guitar, gunfire, explosions, and other heavy shuddering give you a mix covering most of the subwoofer spectrum. The F18 has an LF Adjust knob which you can tinker with back and forth with the level, and then even making some adjustments to the LCR speaker crossover in your surround processor.

Broken into simple terms, the gain/level give you more overall intensity. Increase this until the bass starts to slightly cloud the dialog, and then back down slightly from there. Next play with the LF Adjust, starting by making changes of ~2 notches on the dial at a time. Clockwise will give more heft, weight, and shuddering effects, but too much will loose detail in the bass and deliver to much rumbling or shaking, and not enough impact and detail. You can even turn the dial down 1-2 notches while increasing the gain/level to shift the balance back some. The best setting will depend on your room's acoustic qualities, the in-room response, general listening level, what any auto-EQ did to the response, capability of the main speakers, and of course your overall preference. You can see some graphs demonstrating how the same control works on the SubMersive here on our forum. Finally, before settling on a final level, if raising the subwoofer level any further negatively impacts male voices and overall detail, try lowering the crossover frequency to your main speakers by one increment, or 5-15Hz. After lowering the crossover frequency, go back and listen while increasing the level again and going up/down 1-2 notches on the LF Adjust dial as well.

Be sure to make one adjustment at a time, starting with more significant changes and then honing in on the balance that you like best. For me, How to Train Your Dragon's opening and ending battle works wonderfully to cover all the bases with clear dialog, sharp explosions, on to heavy beating wings of dragons, and big rumbling explosions.

I have yet to calibrate a system with measurements that I didn't decide to make subtle or even not so subtle adjustments when I do final listening. It's your system and be sure to make yourself happy with the result.
What an absolutely fantastic post!!!!
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post #110 of 130 Old 10-13-2017, 04:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post
Captivator S2
Hey Jeff , the s2 doesn't use a standard three prong power supply? What is needed and how difficult is it to power the s2 then
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post #111 of 130 Old 10-13-2017, 07:31 AM
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Hey Jeff , the s2 doesn't use a standard three prong power supply? What is needed and how difficult is it to power the s2 then
It does use a standard power cord and can be on a regular 15 amp circuit.
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post #112 of 130 Old 10-13-2017, 09:34 AM
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I'm just wondering how this discussion could have been going for so long and no one mentioned these????


https://secure.bossobass.com/index.p...tegory&path=59


I think this would cover all the OP bases.
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post #113 of 130 Old 10-14-2017, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Kimwyn View Post
I'm just wondering how this discussion could have been going for so long and no one mentioned these????


https://secure.bossobass.com/index.p...tegory&path=59


I think this would cover all the OP bases.
Bosso isn't discussed much here at AVS as he no longer posts here. While his systems are awesome he uses an amplifier which is an asian knock-off (clone) of a Lab-Gruppen but has no UL, CSA or CE certification TMK. I have questions concerning the legality of selling such a device in the US.

Some don't have a problem utilizing the clone amps. I feel they are ok for DIY but not for a commercial system.

Do you own a Bosso system? Your thoughts?
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post #114 of 130 Old 10-14-2017, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Bosso isn't discussed much here at AVS as he no longer posts here. While his systems are awesome he uses an amplifier which is an asian knock-off (clone) of a Lab-Gruppen but has no UL, CSA or CE certification TMK. I have questions concerning the legality of selling such a device in the US.

Some don't have a problem utilizing the clone amps. I feel they are ok for DIY but not for a commercial system.

Do you own a Bosso system? Your thoughts?


Madaeel was the only one i can recall who actually had a Raptor. it would be great to see more of these in thecwilf

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...ystem-3-a.html

Selling in AVS classifieds
FS: McIntosh MX-160 Processor
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post #115 of 130 Old 10-18-2017, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Bosso isn't discussed much here at AVS as he no longer posts here. While his systems are awesome he uses an amplifier which is an asian knock-off (clone) of a Lab-Gruppen but has no UL, CSA or CE certification TMK. I have questions concerning the legality of selling such a device in the US.

Some don't have a problem utilizing the clone amps. I feel they are ok for DIY but not for a commercial system.

Do you own a Bosso system? Your thoughts?

I have an interest in owning one of his systems as he has proven with numbers what his systems can actually do. I haven't seen much more systems which can replicate the soundtracks as his does and as a result, I feel inclined to go with him. I currently own a HSU ULS 15 dual drive and was thinking of the cheaper option of just adding another to make 4 ULS 15s but then, I thought again.........


I am not as hard pressed against the clone amp as you seem to be and one of the reasons I'm not is because I am not in the US either. I am from Barbados. But just as the OP, I would like to reach 10Hz with authority and even 5Hz (as Bosso's systems can do). WAF is of no concern to me as I don't have that to worry about.
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post #116 of 130 Old 10-18-2017, 04:51 PM
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@Kimwyn

Bosso's systems are pretty great for corner loaded setups (and look great IMO). IME, 18s generally go subsonic with more authority than 15s (I had 2 PSA S3000i + 2 S1500s previously). Funk offers 21s and DSS 24s. There is also the Seaton F18+ system (which both I and the OP went with), JTR Captivator S1/S2, and PSAs S7201.

If WAF is no issue why not DIY? My first choice without WAF (and health issues) would be DIY? @Nalleh has recently completed a pair of tube enclosures based on Bosso's design bit with 18" drivers. Also the 10-12Hz ported subs do things at & below 10Hz that it takes multiple sealed subs to match: custom Seaton Teraforms, JTR's Captivator 4000 ULFs, Rythmik FV25HPs.

I own the F18+ system (2775ft³ treated & sealed room) and my wife's premium finished Captivator 2400 ULF (7500ft³ open concept den) is in transit!
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post #117 of 130 Old 10-18-2017, 05:06 PM
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My wife's premium finished Captivator 2400 ULF (7500ft³ open concept den) is in transit!
Good, good, good!

I was gonna ask you for your impressions!

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #118 of 130 Old 11-01-2017, 05:40 PM
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What's your room size? Sealed or open to other rooms?

Letting your wife choose premium finishes definitely helps with WAF… at least it did for me.
Hey Marc, is that a PSA 3000i? I have been looking for someone with that sub to give me a review of it as a single sub for both HT and music. Seems like everyone in the PSA forum went right to the big 18"ers. I would consider that, but I wanted the wood veneer as you mentioned to disguise it as an end table. For some reason, the don't make the S3601 with wood veneer. Probably because they think anyone getting an 18" sub doesn't care about how it integrates into the living room!
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post #119 of 130 Old 11-01-2017, 06:26 PM
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Hey Marc, is that a PSA 3000i? I have been looking for someone with that sub to give me a review of it as a single sub for both HT and music. Seems like everyone in the PSA forum went right to the big 18"ers. I would consider that, but I wanted the wood veneer as you mentioned to disguise it as an end table. For some reason, the don't make the S3601 with wood veneer. Probably because they think anyone getting an 18" sub doesn't care about how it integrates into the living room!
I heard this particular PSA 3000i in the picture side by side with my Cap 1400 when Marc brought it over for a mini-GTG. I prefer a ported sub because my HT is for 95% movies, however, I am surprised at how well it did next to my Captivator 1400. IIRC, we measured about 5~6 dB output difference from 12~25 Hz or so, which was closer than what the CEA 2010 Max Burst numbers suggests. It is the most affordable sub with the 1400W SpeakerPower amp. PSA V3000i with stock finish @ $1600 shipped is an excellent value. If I were in the market for a $1600 sealed sub, I would take it in a heart beat.
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Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 11-01-2017 at 09:14 PM.
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post #120 of 130 Old 11-01-2017, 08:53 PM
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Hey Marc, is that a PSA 3000i? I have been looking for someone with that sub to give me a review of it as a single sub for both HT and music. Seems like everyone in the PSA forum went right to the big 18"ers. I would consider that, but I wanted the wood veneer as you mentioned to disguise it as an end table. For some reason, the don't make the S3601 with wood veneer. Probably because they think anyone getting an 18" sub doesn't care about how it integrates into the living room!
Yes, that is a S3000i. It is basically a lower priced version of the Seaton Submersive. While the drivers look identical (they are both custom built by Eminence for their respective manufacturers) the Seaton variant exhibits lower distortion characteristics and can play louder before the distortion becomes audible.

If movies are primary, I would recommend the PSA without reservation. The harmonic distortion makes the PSA sound a bit more bombastic with many effects. It performs well with music just not as well as the Seaton Submersive or F18+. The Seatons sound more detailed but perhaps a little thinner than the PSA. If music is a high priority, you may want to contact Seaton Sound regarding a B-stock amp in a new veneered cabinet (if price is a concern).
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