SVS upgrade from PC-2000 to PC12 Plus worth it? - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 43 Old 03-07-2017, 04:52 PM - Thread Starter
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I still haven't had nearly enough time to listen to the pc12+ nor have I had the house to myself to crank up the volume. So as expected it's hard to notice any output difference at low to moderate volumes relative to the pc-2000. I will say that it sounds different. I was quite surprised at how much cleaner the bass seems as I thought the pc-2000 was very good and honestly didn't think I had the ears to notice. I need to increase my bass movie collection but I've tried listening to select scenes from movies such as force awakens, Star Trek, interstellar, iron man. By memory and without doing an A/B compare to pc-2000 some scenes have more tactile feel (some of which likely due to the better extension) and volume while other scenes actually seem to have less. Others can likely give a better answer but my thought is that the cleaner sound may seem like less output in certain circumstances. Also I'm wondering that due to having it in 16hz mode the response curve is not as flat at the low end? On that note it would be nice to do an A/B compare of 16hz and 20hz tunes. I know ideally Audyssey needs to be re-run but that is really a pain and makes it harder to do comparisons back to back. Is there any utility to switching back and forth between tunes to compare without re-running Audyssey? Will post back more impressions as I get time. Haven't initiated return of pc-2000 yet but definitely plan to. Even if I never take advantage of the higher output I do like the sound better.

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post #32 of 43 Old 03-08-2017, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by confinoj View Post
I still haven't had nearly enough time to listen to the pc12+ nor have I had the house to myself to crank up the volume. So as expected it's hard to notice any output difference at low to moderate volumes relative to the pc-2000. I will say that it sounds different. I was quite surprised at how much cleaner the bass seems as I thought the pc-2000 was very good and honestly didn't think I had the ears to notice. I need to increase my bass movie collection but I've tried listening to select scenes from movies such as force awakens, Star Trek, interstellar, iron man. By memory and without doing an A/B compare to pc-2000 some scenes have more tactile feel (some of which likely due to the better extension) and volume while other scenes actually seem to have less. Others can likely give a better answer but my thought is that the cleaner sound may seem like less output in certain circumstances. Also I'm wondering that due to having it in 16hz mode the response curve is not as flat at the low end? On that note it would be nice to do an A/B compare of 16hz and 20hz tunes. I know ideally Audyssey needs to be re-run but that is really a pain and makes it harder to do comparisons back to back. Is there any utility to switching back and forth between tunes to compare without re-running Audyssey? Will post back more impressions as I get time. Haven't initiated return of pc-2000 yet but definitely plan to. Even if I never take advantage of the higher output I do like the sound better.
IMO you don't need to rerun Audyssey. But I don't use any room correction so..............

If you feel that Audyssey might be compromising the results, you can always turn it off and then compare on a level field.

IME I can't tell a difference between 16 and 20hz modes. I just leave it in 16hz mode because my room is small enough that I don't need whatever extra output there might be in 20hz mode and because- why not.

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post #33 of 43 Old 03-08-2017, 02:57 PM
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If you do experiment with 16hz vs 20hz, don't forget to change the port tune on the subs menu dial.

Living Room: Denon X4000, XPA-5, Polk RTiA9, CSiA6, RTiA3-wides, FXiA4, OWM3, SVS PC12+, 4 Shakers, Epson 5030, VApex 92”, Sony XBR9 52”, PS3, Xbox 360, Darbee, Harmony 1.
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post #34 of 43 Old 03-08-2017, 11:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by garnuts View Post
If you do experiment with 16hz vs 20hz, don't forget to change the port tune on the subs menu dial.
Thanks that was my plan. PC-2000 got dropped off at FedEx tonight so pc12+ is official.

Garnuts - I'm impressed with how many rooms in your house have nice gear. How do you like your pc12+?

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post #35 of 43 Old 03-09-2017, 06:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Before and after pics for those interested in size difference. The PC12+ has the soundpath feet installed which adds ~1.5 inches. If I ever upgraded to the ultra it's another 7" so would be a good bit taller than speaker and in my view look a little out of place. I think the PC12+ is going to fit my needs nicely but you never know...
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LG OLED65C7P (Chad B Calibrated) | Denon X4300H | Tivo Roamio OTA | Nvidia Shield | ATV 4K | Oppo UDP-203 | Plex server
5.2.4 | Front Klipsch RP-160M x2 | Center Klipsch RP-450C | Surrounds Klipsch RP-150M x2 | Atmos Klipsch RP-140SA x 4 | Subs SVS PC-4000 x 2

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post #36 of 43 Old 03-09-2017, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by confinoj View Post
Thanks that was my plan. PC-2000 got dropped off at FedEx tonight so pc12+ is official.

Garnuts - I'm impressed with how many rooms in your house have nice gear. How do you like your pc12+?

Thanks to these forums which cause upgraditis, gear keeps accumulating, and I've still probably got a dozen Polk Monitor series speakers stored in a closet.

I see we have similar taste in Rti's and the PC-12+

The PC-12+ does a great job in my medium sized condo living room. Even though I've soundproofed the adjoining wall to my neighbor with 2 additional layers of drywall and green glue, I'm afraid to push the sub to it max because the very low frequencies are not damped as much as the mid and highs.

I'm also limited in placement options and have mine positioned exactly where yours is. I've experimented with port tuning 16hz and 20hz, and although it's not a significant difference for music, I want the low's that 16hz provides for movies, since that is 80% of my use in that room.

I've been contemplating adding a 2nd sub for awhile, not to go louder but to see how it evens out the response in the room. I'm so limited in placement options, I'm thinking of replacing an end table with a PB-12+ since it is essentially the same as the PC-12+... I just have to talk myself into spending the money.

I also have 4 Aura Pro Bass Shakers in my sectional powered by a 240 watt plate amp that really adds to the bass experience. The amp has gain and crossover controls so I can shake as little or as much as I want. For about $350, that is the best bang for the buck HT purchase I've made

Did you notice any difference in adding the SVS feet to your PC-12+?

You have a nice clean looking set-up...Enjoy your new sub!

Living Room: Denon X4000, XPA-5, Polk RTiA9, CSiA6, RTiA3-wides, FXiA4, OWM3, SVS PC12+, 4 Shakers, Epson 5030, VApex 92”, Sony XBR9 52”, PS3, Xbox 360, Darbee, Harmony 1.
Bedroom: Denon X2000, Polk: RTiA3, CSiA4, RTiA1, OWM3, SVS SB12-NSD, Sony XBR-55X850B, Sony BPD-S590, Xbox 360, RPi2-RasPlex, Darbee, Harmony 510.
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post #37 of 43 Old 03-09-2017, 07:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by garnuts View Post
Thanks to these forums which cause upgraditis, gear keeps accumulating, and I've still probably got a dozen Polk Monitor series speakers stored in a closet.

I see we have similar taste in Rti's and the PC-12+

The PC-12+ does a great job in my medium sized condo living room. Even though I've soundproofed the adjoining wall to my neighbor with 2 additional layers of drywall and green glue, I'm afraid to push the sub to it max because the very low frequencies are not damped as much as the mid and highs.

I'm also limited in placement options and have mine positioned exactly where yours is. I've experimented with port tuning 16hz and 20hz, and although it's not a significant difference for music, I want the low's that 16hz provides for movies, since that is 80% of my use in that room.

I've been contemplating adding a 2nd sub for awhile, not to go louder but to see how it evens out the response in the room. I'm so limited in placement options, I'm thinking of replacing an end table with a PB-12+ since it is essentially the same as the PC-12+... I just have to talk myself into spending the money.

I also have 4 Aura Pro Bass Shakers in my sectional powered by a 240 watt plate amp that really adds to the bass experience. The amp has gain and crossover controls so I can shake as little or as much as I want. For about $350, that is the best bang for the buck HT purchase I've made

Did you notice any difference in adding the SVS feet to your PC-12+?

You have a nice clean looking set-up...Enjoy your new sub!
Yes these forums definitely like to spend your money. I never had any intentions on spending $1300 on a sub at the onset. My budget more than tripled and it's now the most expensive piece of audio equipment I own. But so worth it! I never tried the PC12+ without the soundpath feet. My PC-2000 that I just traded in came with them included and there wasn't a ton of room rattles so I figured I'd put them on the PC12+ and also I figured it would be a better direct comparison that way.

So I just experimented with 16Hz vs 20Hz. With one test scene it was clear I preferred 16Hz. My go to test scene has been the Kylo Ren - Rey force interrogation scene in Force Awakens. There is a lot of ultra low infrasonic bass (supposed to represent "the force") and otherwise a quiet scene so easy to turn it up without actually making a lot of noise (other than room rattling) and a good workout for the sub. There was a clear difference in the amount of visceral bass felt. No need to do anymore testing for me since most of my usage is HT.

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post #38 of 43 Old 03-11-2017, 12:55 PM - Thread Starter
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So I realized that if you optionally install the soundpath feet without the baseplate (SVS says this is fine if not on high pile carpet) you can shave almost 3" off the height. That makes the ultra only 4" taller from current height of my PC12+ and therefore probably wouldn't be a very noticeable change. Now I really have no need for it after spending a week with the PC12+ but...

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post #39 of 43 Old 06-29-2017, 08:08 AM
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Any further updates? I'm considering either the pc-2000 or pc12+ as possible upgrades myself. Are you more happy with the 12+ than the 2000?

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post #40 of 43 Old 06-29-2017, 09:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Any further updates? I'm considering either the pc-2000 or pc12+ as possible upgrades myself. Are you more happy with the 12+ than the 2000?
Yes I was happy with the trade up. The PC12+ doesn't have a huge output advantage over the PC2000 but it certainly has some most notable in the sub 20Hz range when in the 16hz tune. That made HT usage even more enjoyable. Also overall PC12+ is a cleaner more articulate sub. For more even frequency response I added a second PC12+ recently. I'm very happy with the results. I also have really liked having a digital gain control. With duals it often takes lots of experimenting with placement and re-running calibration. Knowing where I have precisely set gain in various positions has been very valuable. So for me dual PC12+ works very well and done with upgrades for hopefully many years. That being said the PC12+ is not nearly as good a value as some of the other ID brands such as Hsu or PSA. The cylinder form factor works for our room better though and I was able to take advantage of the SVS trade up policy without having to sell the PC-2000 privately. For a price between the 2 SVS subs and performance slightly better than the PC12+ at least for mid bass I would look at the PSA 15V or Hsu VTF-3 MK5 if they work dimension wise.
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post #41 of 43 Old 06-29-2017, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by confinoj View Post
Yes I was happy with the trade up. The PC12+ doesn't have a huge output advantage over the PC2000 but it certainly has some most notable in the sub 20Hz range when in the 16hz tune. That made HT usage even more enjoyable. Also overall PC12+ is a cleaner more articulate sub. For more even frequency response I added a second PC12+ recently. I'm very happy with the results. I also have really liked having a digital gain control. With duals it often takes lots of experimenting with placement and re-running calibration. Knowing where I have precisely set gain in various positions has been very valuable. So for me dual PC12+ works very well and done with upgrades for hopefully many years. That being said the PC12+ is not nearly as good a value as some of the other ID brands such as Hsu or PSA. The cylinder for factor works for our room better though and I was able to take advantage of the SVS trade up policy without having to sell the PC-2000 privately. For a price between the 2 SVS subs and performance slightly better than the PC12+ at least for mid bass I would look at the PSA 15V or Hsu VTF-3 MK5 if they work dimension wise.
That was great insight by you

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post #42 of 43 Old 06-29-2017, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by confinoj View Post
Yes I was happy with the trade up. The PC12+ doesn't have a huge output advantage over the PC2000 but it certainly has some most notable in the sub 20Hz range when in the 16hz tune. That made HT usage even more enjoyable. Also overall PC12+ is a cleaner more articulate sub. For more even frequency response I added a second PC12+ recently. I'm very happy with the results. I also have really liked having a digital gain control. With duals it often takes lots of experimenting with placement and re-running calibration. Knowing where I have precisely set gain in various positions has been very valuable. So for me dual PC12+ works very well and done with upgrades for hopefully many years. That being said the PC12+ is not nearly as good a value as some of the other ID brands such as Hsu or PSA. The cylinder form factor works for our room better though and I was able to take advantage of the SVS trade up policy without having to sell the PC-2000 privately. For a price between the 2 SVS subs and performance slightly better than the PC12+ at least for mid bass I would look at the PSA 15V or Hsu VTF-3 MK5 if they work dimension wise.
Thanks for the awesome insight! I'm a tinkerer at heart, so the tweakability of the PC12+ really appeals to me, as does the VTF series from Hsu. I am considering a Hsu also, but I honestly would have to rearrange my room for it more than I would for the PC12+ and I'm not sure if I want to go to that extreme. I kind of like where everything is laid out right now, but we shall see what happens. It will be probably a month or so before I pull the trigger on getting one of them.

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post #43 of 43 Old 06-27-2018, 07:08 AM
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Sale?

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Originally Posted by Pulloutchamp View Post
there is a pretty good difference between the PC2000 and PC12+....I went from dual PC2K's to dual PC12+ definitely got more room shake with the Plus.... I enjoyed 16hz mode the most...20hz was loudest , but also seemed to have some port noise when cranked up....Sealed just made me think "where did my subs go??".....But even with the Plus , I felt I was running out of headroom...No fun hearing odd noises during a bass heavy scene....So I ended up getting some PSA V1500's , and well , the only odd noises I hear now are the walls flexing! ....... Soooo , I have a couple PC12+ for sale But I do hope that PC12+ gives you what you were looking for!
I realize that this is a stretch, but are your PC12+ still for sale?

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