The Ultimate List of BASS in Movies w/ Frequency Charts - Page 223 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6661 of 16092 Old 03-30-2018, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KMFDMvsEnya View Post
There are several aspects of the audio discussion that are being conflated or potentially drawing a false correlation.

Such as a lower average volume track is perceived as indeed being less dynamic. If the track volume is extremely too low than yes that can prove to be the case but in respects to SW:TLJ it is not remotely that low to be a concern.

Conflating aggressive loudness as being dynamic is a common misconception. Assuming the average dynamic range has been reduced with aggressive, or overly so with, dynamic range compression then that is antithetical to being truly dynamic. As in, a respectable difference between the loud and quieter passages in the mix.
QFT!

I feel like this is a really important point that many people (esp. at blu-ray.com, dunno about AVS) are missing. That said, I anticipate any graphs of the Atmos vs. DTS-HD MA tracks you can share.

Also, "word" (aka, mostly unsubstantiated Internet rumor at this point) has it that the Atmos track is triggering the dynamic range compression flag on some people's setups. Folks, make sure you check that DRC is turned off by default before beginning the movie, then check again once it starts playing.
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post #6662 of 16092 Old 03-30-2018, 01:28 PM
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I'm in the middle of watching the 4K Atmos version of SW-The Last Jedi and as soon as I put it in I was wondering why the volume seemed so low. Popping in here I see that I'm not imagining it. I also found the center channel mix to be a little low. However, once I bumped up my MV about 6 dB above my normal listening level and turned up the center channel 2 dB everything sounds fine (although it's lacking bass thus far IMO).

I'm as confused as others as to why the volume is set so low but turning things up above normal levels seems to have remedied it.
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post #6663 of 16092 Old 03-30-2018, 06:07 PM
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Just saw Ready Player One at the Dolby Cinema Theater here in Atlanta. There are some serious low bass scenes in this movie. Especially near the end when there is a powerful bomb set off. There is a good 30 to 45 second explosion that shudders thru your entire body.

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post #6664 of 16092 Old 03-30-2018, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by capricorn kid View Post
Just saw Ready Player One at the Dolby Cinema Theater here in Atlanta. There are some serious low bass scenes in this movie. Especially near the end when there is a powerful bomb set off. There is a good 30 to 45 second explosion that shudders thru your entire body.


Isn’t it the recliner that is shaking your body?
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post #6665 of 16092 Old 03-31-2018, 03:06 AM
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Just wrapped up Wind River. Powerful to say the least. Wow.
Finally watched Wind River as well. I enjoyed it a lot, and dangit, it makes me want to tinker with my snowmobile that I haven't started for 15+ years LOL! My sled was a fast S.O.B. back in the day, carrying the front end a good 100ft and topping out at 120mph (wild guess) on a long lake run. Way, WAY past what the speedo would register. I added a ton of go-fast parts to it to get there heh

Also, those who are a fan of this movie might like the Netflix series "Longmire", but I'm sure that's old news for at least some of you.
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post #6666 of 16092 Old 03-31-2018, 06:25 AM
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Just pre-ordered Saving Private Ryan (SB), Ready Player 1 (SB), Push and The Matrix.

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Originally Posted by Keith Zuehlke View Post
Finally watched Wind River as well. I enjoyed it a lot, and dangit, it makes me want to tinker with my snowmobile that I haven't started for 15+ years LOL! My sled was a fast S.O.B. back in the day, carrying the front end a good 100ft and topping out at 120mph (wild guess) on a long lake run. Way, WAY past what the speedo would register. I added a ton of go-fast parts to it to get there heh

Also, those who are a fan of this movie might like the Netflix series "Longmire", but I'm sure that's old news for at least some of you.
Just wrapped Longmire. Loved that series along with Wind River...
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post #6668 of 16092 Old 03-31-2018, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by cydeweyz View Post
Isn’t it the recliner that is shaking your body?
There are shakers under all the chairs but you can tell the difference between the subs and the transducers. The subs on the ceiling give a certain pressure that you can also feel. That explosion near the end was mostly from the subs. I'm sure without the shakers that scene still would be very tactical.

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post #6669 of 16092 Old 03-31-2018, 08:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by capricorn kid View Post
There are shakers under all the chairs but you can tell the difference between the subs and the transducers. The subs on the ceiling give a certain pressure that you can also feel. That explosion near the end was mostly from the subs. I'm sure without the shakers that scene still would be very tactical.
With one of the reviewers saying watch this on the ''biggest screen with the best possible sound system possible'' i think this film might be a killer home release ... hopefully.
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post #6670 of 16092 Old 03-31-2018, 08:59 AM
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Also saw Ready Player One in a Dolby cinema in Phoenix last night. Had high expectations going in from hearing all the positive reviews and it definitely didn't disappoint. Already have plans to go see it again around noon today.
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post #6671 of 16092 Old 03-31-2018, 09:43 AM
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Also saw Ready Player One in a Dolby cinema in Phoenix last night. Had high expectations going in from hearing all the positive reviews and it definitely didn't disappoint. Already have plans to go see it again around noon today.
Finally, another Phoenician in here!
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post #6672 of 16092 Old 03-31-2018, 10:52 AM - Thread Starter
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post #6673 of 16092 Old 03-31-2018, 11:13 AM
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[CENTER][B]Train to Busan (2016) Bass Graph [COLOR=Red]DTS:X



I like the pic and graph......
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post #6674 of 16092 Old 03-31-2018, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by club968 View Post
Also saw Ready Player One in a Dolby cinema in Phoenix last night. Had high expectations going in from hearing all the positive reviews and it definitely didn't disappoint. Already have plans to go see it again around noon today.
Finally, another Phoenician in here! [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/cool.gif[/IMG]
Woot! Lol
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post #6675 of 16092 Old 03-31-2018, 12:15 PM
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Wow, the guys on the data-bass forums weren't kidding when they were giving the bass recommend to Titan A.E. on DVD!

Believe it or not, I'm watching this right now for the first time and for a movie released in 2000, it sure does pack the LFE goods! And the Dolby Surround upmixer does a fantastic job of giving a directional feel to the action all around you. The couch is thunderously shaking and quaking!

I love the original, Walt Disney-like motion capture animation they used in this film, which in many ways is superior to even current CGI mo-cap since back then it was drawn and seems to truly encapsulate the essence of many of the characters, whereas CGI does not. Sure some of the animation looks dated, but I'll tell you one thing... I'll be playing this bad boy multiple times unlike much of the DC and Marvel cartoons that I will only play ONCE!

You've also got what even many cartoons nowadays shy away from... BLOOD and main characters getting shot or killed. The music worked well with the animation and, my goodness, you even have Tone Loc as a voice actor on one of the characters! I mean, what else could you ask for!?!

I so wish they would even do a Blu-ray remaster/remake of this let alone 4K! And hopefully they wouldn't neuter the bass.


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post #6676 of 16092 Old 03-31-2018, 12:40 PM
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Wow that sure looks interesting, I’ll have to check it out! Never even heard of it before.
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post #6677 of 16092 Old 03-31-2018, 12:52 PM
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I just watched Iron Man with my new PC-2000 and it blew my socks off. Gonna pop in the second one now!
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post #6678 of 16092 Old 03-31-2018, 01:14 PM
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I just watched Iron Man with my new PC-2000 and it blew my socks off. Gonna pop in the second one now!
Unfortunately, the first Iron Man is the best of the franchise when it comes to packing the LFE goods.
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post #6679 of 16092 Old 03-31-2018, 01:17 PM
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Wow, the guys on the data-bass forums weren't kidding when they were giving the bass recommend to Titan A.E. on DVD!

Believe it or not, I'm watching this right now for the first time and for a movie released in 2000, it sure does pack the LFE goods! And the Dolby Surround upmixer does a fantastic job of giving a directional feel to the action all around you. The couch is thunderously shaking and quaking!

I love the original, Walt Disney-like motion capture animation they used in this film, which in many ways is superior to even current CGI mo-cap since back then it was drawn and seems to truly encapsulate the essence of many of the characters, whereas CGI does not. Sure some of the animation looks dated, but I'll tell you one thing... I'll be playing this bad boy multiple times unlike much of the DC and Marvel cartoons that I will only play ONCE!

You've also got what even many cartoons nowadays shy away from... BLOOD and main characters getting shot or killed. The music worked well with the animation and, my goodness, you even have Tone Loc as a voice actor on one of the characters! I mean, what else could you ask for!?!

I so wish they would even do a Blu-ray remaster/remake of this let alone 4K! And hopefully they wouldn't neuter the bass.


I loved Titan AE. Good animation for the time. I got rid of it along with almost all my other DVDs. May have to rebuy it.

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post #6680 of 16092 Old 03-31-2018, 02:00 PM
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Titan AE was always a demo disc back in the day. Haven't watched it in 12 years or so. Hate watching DVDs on my setup now (but still will since many of my favorite concerts are only on DVD) , but might need to revisit this. Still have it with a nice layer of dust on top. This really needs a UHD release.
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post #6681 of 16092 Old 03-31-2018, 02:18 PM
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Also another LFE monster The Haunting on DVD with DTS track needs a blu ray release.
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Yes, what is this "dvd" you speak of?? Lol
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post #6683 of 16092 Old 03-31-2018, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by club968 View Post
Also saw Ready Player One in a Dolby cinema in Phoenix last night. Had high expectations going in from hearing all the positive reviews and it definitely didn't disappoint. Already have plans to go see it again around noon today.
What did you think of the first race sequence and the last big bomb explosion near the end of the movie? IMO those were amazing bass demo scenes and will be perfect for home theater demo tracks.....if the blu-ray release is not filtered.

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post #6684 of 16092 Old 03-31-2018, 07:22 PM
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I was watching Oz the Great and Powerful this morning and besides the regular 5.1 dd it has a 7.1 dts hd master "nearfield mix"
I've never heard that expression any clue what the difference, if any, of that and normal 7.1 dts hd master?
Near-field means the mix is optimized for home use as opposed to the version released theatrically. IMHO we have been getting home optimized mixes right along, so not too sure why it was labeled as such in this particular case.

Maybe we can entice @dr.sound to drop by and clue us in.
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post #6685 of 16092 Old 03-31-2018, 07:50 PM
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Star Wars: The Last Jedi
ATMOS vs DTSMA

I have not done an auditory comparison just yet but looking at the waveforms and the dynamic range stats there are clearly some differences which overall seem relatively subtle.

Some things appear a little louder in one track versus another and visa-versa. The differences may be all due to how the Atmos material may have been mixed down for the DTSMA track. The Surrounds Left & Right seem to be overall a bit louder on the DTSMA track but the Rears are about the same levels between them. It also appears to be that certain content has been placed and mixed a bit differently between the two tracks.

The waveforms affirm what I was expecting after watching the Blu-ray twice now, that the mix is quite dynamic and has a pleasant attack and release ratio. Resulting in no aggressive peak limiting nor a bunch square or near square waveforms, so the mix actually gets to breathe.

Now I understand many are accustomed to or prefer the audio to have a more aggressive attack with slower release ratios for compression. It makes things louder but it also makes things more "chunkier", flatter, and less separation in the various audio elements.

Tangentially related is the differences between the Atmos and DTSMA tracks for Oblivion, which are dramatically differently. Much of the differences lies with the amount of compression applied between the two tracks. I plan to provide a little more detail later but after listening to the LRCS channels in various isolated configurations the DTSMA sounds really chunky and flat. When subtracting various elements the degree of compression becomes more evident.

Back to TLJ, my initial reaction to the volume level was partly due to my ears having been cooked a bit earlier in the day with some loud sounds. With my second viewing I had it several dbs lower than the first time round and found it still pleasing but yes the average volume is a bit lower than what is conventionally mixed or released.

The DTSMA track is actually very dynamic and the bass is very good, just different from what appears to be the conventional approach.
It seems to me that the bass is intentionally stylized in this manner to be more impactful by not being as throbbing or "chunky". ymmv.

PS: When processing the respective audio tracks through eac3to the Atmos track and subsequent Dolby tracks had a dialnorm: -29dB, whereas the DTSMA dialnorm: -2dB. Perhaps that is helpful or completely wrong.

Dynamic Range Stats from Adobe Audition ::Which took several hours to actually scan the darn files. ugh.
Spoiler!


Alternative DR Stats by the DR Meter from http://dr.loudness-war.info
Spoiler!
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post #6686 of 16092 Old 03-31-2018, 07:57 PM
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Watching Saving Private Ryan with my 13 year old son. His first time watching it. I've been waiting for this moment for a while.

Anyways, not the best pic since i took it using Snapchat without pausing the movie...but man this random pic speaks volumes.
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post #6687 of 16092 Old 03-31-2018, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by club968 View Post
Also saw Ready Player One in a Dolby cinema in Phoenix last night. Had high expectations going in from hearing all the positive reviews and it definitely didn't disappoint. Already have plans to go see it again around noon today.
What did you think of the first race sequence and the last big bomb explosion near the end of the movie? IMO those were amazing bass demo scenes and will be perfect for home theater demo tracks.....if the blu-ray release is not filtered.
Went to a regular showing ng this time so there was no advantage of the vibrating seats. I could definitely see the potential for bass during those scenes for sure. But in this particular theater it wasn't as loud unfortunately.
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post #6688 of 16092 Old 03-31-2018, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KMFDMvsEnya View Post
Star Wars: The Last Jedi
ATMOS vs DTSMA

I have not done an auditory comparison just yet but looking at the waveforms and the dynamic range stats there are clearly some differences which overall seem relatively subtle.

Some things appear a little louder in one track versus another and visa-versa. The differences may be all due to how the Atmos material may have been mixed down for the DTSMA track. The Surrounds Left & Right seem to be overall a bit louder on the DTSMA track but the Rears are about the same levels between them. It also appears to be that certain content has been placed and mixed a bit differently between the two tracks.

The waveforms affirm what I was expecting after watching the Blu-ray twice now, that the mix is quite dynamic and has a pleasant attack and release ratio. Resulting in no aggressive peak limiting nor a bunch square or near square waveforms, so the mix actually gets to breathe.

Now I understand many are accustomed to or prefer the audio to have a more aggressive attack with slower release ratios for compression. It makes things louder but it also makes things more "chunkier", flatter, and less separation in the various audio elements.

Tangentially related is the differences between the Atmos and DTSMA tracks for Oblivion, which are dramatically differently. Much of the differences lies with the amount of compression applied between the two tracks. I plan to provide a little more detail later but after listening to the LRCS channels in various isolated configurations the DTSMA sounds really chunky and flat. When subtracting various elements the degree of compression becomes more evident.

Back to TLJ, my initial reaction to the volume level was partly due to my ears having been cooked a bit earlier in the day with some loud sounds. With my second viewing I had it several dbs lower than the first time round and found it still pleasing but yes the average volume is a bit lower than what is conventionally mixed or released.

The DTSMA track is actually very dynamic and the bass is very good, just different from what appears to be the conventional approach.
It seems to me that the bass is intentionally stylized in this manner to be more impactful by not being as throbbing or "chunky". ymmv.

PS: When processing the respective audio tracks through eac3to the Atmos track and subsequent Dolby tracks had a dialnorm: -29dB, whereas the DTSMA dialnorm: -2dB. Perhaps that is helpful or completely wrong.

Dynamic Range Stats from Adobe Audition ::Which took several hours to actually scan the darn files. ugh.
Spoiler!


Alternative DR Stats by the DR Meter from http://dr.loudness-war.info
Spoiler!
Comparing Oblivion DTS-MA vs Atmos on my setup, the DTS seemed really hot and ballsy, and the lowest bass seemed more 'full-on-bass', but it seemed more tactile and dynamic with more transient higher frequencies and clearer and more channel-distinct mixing in the Atmos.

My main comparative scene was the landing in the stadium at about 9 minutes in. The overall volume level seemed about the same, but there was more precision in the Atmos and actually looking at my subs during the landing, there was more varied tactile variances being observed, whereas the DTS was just full-on balls.

With The Last Jedi, if you listen when the Dreadnought first arrives at 2:49 in the movie, although much quieter overall compared to Oblivion, it has a similar signature, comparing the compression, and the DTS is more compressed and maybe a bit more 'ballsy' but the Atmos seems to have overall deeper and more detailed tactile bass.

I'm kind of a newb around here, and looking at the graph comparisons, they shouldn't sound that different, but they do, and I've noticed several times when it's fairly drastic.

The one thing that I thought sounded significantly better with the DTS compared to Atmos is Thor - Ragnarok. Everything seems clearer and much more fullsome on the DTS.

Edit: Lots of various edits because I'm very drunk.

Last edited by bigdrummy; 03-31-2018 at 09:31 PM.
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post #6689 of 16092 Old 03-31-2018, 11:03 PM
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Hans Zimmer Live in Prague in atmos. Interstellar. Amazing!
Goosebumps over here lol
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post #6690 of 16092 Old 03-31-2018, 11:21 PM
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Also saw Ready Player One in a Dolby cinema in Phoenix last night. Had high expectations going in from hearing all the positive reviews and it definitely didn't disappoint. Already have plans to go see it again around noon today.
What did you think of the first race sequence and the last big bomb explosion near the end of the movie? IMO those were amazing bass demo scenes and will be perfect for home theater demo tracks.....if the blu-ray release is not filtered.
Went to a regular showing ng this time so there was no advantage of the vibrating seats. I could definitely see the potential for bass during those scenes for sure. But in this particular theater it wasn't as loud unfortunately.
The movie theater I watch in was also lacking, but I got too into the movie. It’s a good one that I wasn’t paying too much attention to the audio.

7.3.4 Avr: Pioneer SC-95 elite LR: Klipch RF-3 C: RC 52ii Surrounds: Klipch SF-1 and def tech B6p SUBS: 2 UM22-18 Full martys on INuke 6K dsp Atmos: 4 monoprice 8"
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