The Ultimate List of BASS in Movies w/ Frequency Charts - Page 562 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #16831 of 16904 Old 01-14-2020, 03:10 AM - Thread Starter
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post #16832 of 16904 Old 01-14-2020, 04:32 AM
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Thanks for the graph @MrGrey. Have seen them all, so might as well finish em off. Hope some decent bass with the one. Anyone see it in the theater?
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post #16833 of 16904 Old 01-14-2020, 06:50 AM
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Thanks for the graph @MrGrey. Have seen them all, so might as well finish em off. Hope some decent bass with the one. Anyone see it in the theater?
Ralph Potts did. His review now up on the site:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/187-o...ay-review.html
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post #16834 of 16904 Old 01-14-2020, 07:01 AM
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Well kinda...

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post58770506
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post #16835 of 16904 Old 01-14-2020, 07:15 AM
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So as much as I have been resisting streaming I thought I give it a try.

I used my Sony x700 running the Vudu app and watched the movie Fury. Right off the bat I noticed there was a less than a second sound delay. It seems to get better at times but I noticed it. Not sure if this is a common thing with streaming but I sent a support email to Vudu and the only thing they did was to refund me the cost of the movie.

Now I am thinking that I could go into my receiver and mess with the delay and sync but I shouldn't have to?

As for picture quality...not bad for what is UHD...a bit flat coming from nothing but UHD discs that I am used to.

The sound...Dolby Digital for this movie...But is listed atmos...just confusing...I would usually see atmos show up on my avr but it just shows dolby digital.

The future of home cinema? Still needs to be determined.

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post #16836 of 16904 Old 01-14-2020, 11:29 AM
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I don't use Vudu but a friend of mine does. He has complained of lip sync issues as well but said that if he stops then restarts playback it usually is fine.
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post #16837 of 16904 Old 01-14-2020, 12:10 PM
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How happy are you guys with the dynamic range of the average movie?
I gotta say I'm quite unhappy with it in the bass region. I often want more on heavy impacts, but when I raise the overall sub volume, many segments are just way too loud and don't feel natural. I'd probably be happy with maybe 10db louder peaks. I've watched some Muto scenes from Godzilla with the sub over 30db hot which was scary good, but then everything else would be thrown off balance I fear.
On the top end I get the opposite impression, but that may be partly due to my Klipsch speakers, which sound like they're some 2-3db bright in the 6-12k region if I can trust my ears. Overall I seem to want dialogue 3-6db louder, but I already have my center at a level, which pushes SFX to an uncomfortable level. I heard cinemas (usually?) gently roll off the top end.
I also tried using the compressor in the miniDsp as expander, but you can't increase the ratio past 1:1. Should be a one-liner in the dsp code to make it work, just invert gain reduction...

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post #16838 of 16904 Old 01-14-2020, 01:09 PM
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Sadly, if there's no dynamics in the original mix, there's not much you can do about it. That's why I and other people would rather have a quieter mix with great dynamics (even if you have to raise the MV a few dB) than a loud with squashed dynamics.

To my ears, the "average" mix is too loud, and I have sometimes to sacrifice bass impact in order to enjoy the overall audio. But then again, I don't have a treated room, so my opinions are based on regular room, I guess.

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post #16839 of 16904 Old 01-14-2020, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by peniku8 View Post
How happy are you guys with the dynamic range of the average movie?
I gotta say I'm quite unhappy with it in the bass region. I often want more on heavy impacts, but when I raise the overall sub volume, many segments are just way too loud and don't feel natural. I'd probably be happy with maybe 10db louder peaks. I've watched some Muto scenes from Godzilla with the sub over 30db hot which was scary good, but then everything else would be thrown off balance I fear.
On the top end I get the opposite impression, but that may be partly due to my Klipsch speakers, which sound like they're some 2-3db bright in the 6-12k region if I can trust my ears. Overall I seem to want dialogue 3-6db louder, but I already have my center at a level, which pushes SFX to an uncomfortable level. I heard cinemas (usually?) gently roll off the top end.
I also tried using the compressor in the miniDsp as expander, but you can't increase the ratio past 1:1. Should be a one-liner in the dsp code to make it work, just invert gain reduction...
Well since Disney seems to own almost everything and their sound as of late is crap, not happy. I recently posted an experience where I watched 4K Atmos from disc Antman and the Wasp and right after put in a Bluray DTS-HD 5.1 Band of Brothers. My receiver upmixed Band of Brothers using Neural X. Everything sounded so much better with Band of Brothers. Just watched Avengers Infinity War last night. Audio was ok but it certainly didn't have the wow factor for. The Doors 4K Atmos had a wow factor for me in how good it sounded. No bass, but the music and use of Atmos for ambience noises was so well executed. Ready Player One wowed me in the sound. Recently Godzilla King of the Monsters wowed me with the sound even though I particularly didn't enjoy the movie. Abominable (is not Disney) is a more recent release I have watched that had above average sound that Disney provides, but not quite the wow factor. Another movie I watched recently was Widows and that impressed me with the sound. But since Disney is the average release, average sound sucks lately.

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post #16840 of 16904 Old 01-14-2020, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by peniku8 View Post
How happy are you guys with the dynamic range of the average movie?
I gotta say I'm quite unhappy with it in the bass region. I often want more on heavy impacts, but when I raise the overall sub volume, many segments are just way too loud and don't feel natural. I'd probably be happy with maybe 10db louder peaks. I've watched some Muto scenes from Godzilla with the sub over 30db hot which was scary good, but then everything else would be thrown off balance I fear.
On the top end I get the opposite impression, but that may be partly due to my Klipsch speakers, which sound like they're some 2-3db bright in the 6-12k region if I can trust my ears. Overall I seem to want dialogue 3-6db louder, but I already have my center at a level, which pushes SFX to an uncomfortable level. I heard cinemas (usually?) gently roll off the top end.
I also tried using the compressor in the miniDsp as expander, but you can't increase the ratio past 1:1. Should be a one-liner in the dsp code to make it work, just invert gain reduction...
30 dB hot? Ouch!!!

What do you typically set the Master Volume at. Setting your center at 3-6 db hotter than. Your mains doesn’t sound like a good idea. Are you not utilizing Audyssey?

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post #16841 of 16904 Old 01-14-2020, 03:52 PM
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Well since Disney seems to own almost everything and their sound as of late is crap, not happy. I recently posted an experience where I watched 4K Atmos from disc Antman and the Wasp and right after put in a Bluray DTS-HD 5.1 Band of Brothers. My receiver upmixed Band of Brothers using Neural X. Everything sounded so much better with Band of Brothers. Just watched Avengers Infinity War last night. Audio was ok but it certainly didn't have the wow factor for. The Doors 4K Atmos had a wow factor for me in how good it sounded. No bass, but the music and use of Atmos for ambience noises was so well executed. Ready Player One wowed me in the sound. Recently Godzilla King of the Monsters wowed me with the sound even though I particularly didn't enjoy the movie. Abominable (is not Disney) is a more recent release I have watched that had above average sound that Disney provides, but not quite the wow factor. Another movie I watched recently was Widows and that impressed me with the sound. But since Disney is the average release, average sound sucks lately.
If you crank most of the Disney discs up they sound just fine - you just have to go 5-10 dbs higher on your master volume to make them come alive. There are some exceptions - Antman and the Wasp does have a lackluster track and The Black Panther is completely flat until the end battle, which isn’t demo worthy at that.

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post #16842 of 16904 Old 01-14-2020, 04:13 PM
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I may get some better dynamics now with my new upgrade. I bought another pair of used speakers to match the rest of my system and upgrade to 7.3.4. Paid for the speakers Friday and since I need at minimum a two channel amp to expand I ordered, what seemed liked a good idea without breaking the bank, a Marantz MM7025 refurbished. That shipped Friday as well but arrived at work today. In less than 15 minute of getting home I got connected, running my front towers, and a CD playing. I put in direct mode to see what the difference was and OH MY FREAKING GOD did that bring my towers alive. Looking forward to movies and when I get speakers for 7.3.4
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post #16843 of 16904 Old 01-14-2020, 05:49 PM
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I may get some better dynamics now with my new upgrade. I bought another pair of used speakers to match the rest of my system and upgrade to 7.3.4. Paid for the speakers Friday and since I need at minimum a two channel amp to expand I ordered, what seemed liked a good idea without breaking the bank, a Marantz MM7025 refurbished. That shipped Friday as well but arrived at work today. In less than 15 minute of getting home I got connected, running my front towers, and a CD playing. I put in direct mode to see what the difference was and OH MY FREAKING GOD did that bring my towers alive. Looking forward to movies and when I get speakers for 7.3.4
Adding an external amp also got my speakers alive. Glad you enjoy the 7025, now you will want a 5 or 7 channel amp

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post #16844 of 16904 Old 01-14-2020, 06:02 PM
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Adding an external amp also got my speakers alive. Glad you enjoy the 7025, now you will want a 5 or 7 channel amp
YEP! I kept on reading with me listening at -15 to -20 not Disney stuff I wouldn't notice a difference. Before buying the speakers forcing me to buy an external I was toying with the idea. So when I was forced I was looking for economical 2 channel that perform at the very least like my receiver. The Marantz refurbished for $500 seemed to fit the bill perfectly. As well reviewed as the Monolith is I should have sucked it up and spent the $1600 for it. I will live with this for at least the next 6 months to let my desire calm down.

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post #16845 of 16904 Old 01-14-2020, 06:06 PM
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As well reviewed as the Monolith is I should have sucked it up and spent the $1600 for it. I will live with this for at least the next 6 months to let my desire calm down.
I also toyed with the idea of upgrading my speakers before buying the amp, I felt like there was something missing. I noticed the difference right way as soon as I plugged in the Monolith. Night and Day difference and came out a lot cheaper than new speakers!

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post #16846 of 16904 Old 01-14-2020, 06:56 PM
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I also toyed with the idea of upgrading my speakers before buying the amp, I felt like there was something missing. I noticed the difference right way as soon as I plugged in the Monolith. Night and Day difference and came out a lot cheaper than new speakers!
Interesting. I assume you watch movies close to reference level? I'd think adding an amp for relatively moderate levels would not change much in terms of sound quality. In terms of dynamics I'm not sure how that would work, unless the lack of dynamics is a result of insufficient wattage, that make sense the louder you listen to movies or music.

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post #16847 of 16904 Old 01-14-2020, 07:10 PM
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Interesting. I assume you watch movies close to reference level? I'd think adding an amp for relatively moderate levels would not change much in terms of sound quality. In terms of dynamics I'm not sure how that would work, unless the lack of dynamics is a result of insufficient wattage, that make sense the louder you listen to movies or music.

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To be honest I watch movies between -25 to -15 reference and can still hear a big difference with my speakers. YMMV


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post #16848 of 16904 Old 01-14-2020, 07:12 PM
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OK. Something worth looking into. I've read similar observations in the past.

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post #16849 of 16904 Old 01-14-2020, 07:20 PM
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To be honest I watch movies between -25 to -15 reference and can still hear a big difference with my speakers. YMMV


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I had the Monolith 7X 200wpc in my cart several times but always backed off pulling the trigger after reading lots of complaints that they seem to introduce a audible noise floor into some systems. That would drive me nuts as i went through many months of dealing with another product that did that. That aside the increase of performance consistently reported to be significant over an AVR is tempting.

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post #16850 of 16904 Old 01-14-2020, 07:22 PM
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I had the Monolith 7X 200wpc in my cart several times but always backed off pulling the trigger after reading lots of complaints that they seem to introduce a audible noise floor into some systems. That would drive me nuts as i went through many months of dealing with another product that did that. That aside the increase of performance consistently reported to be significant over an AVR is tempting.


I did have a buzz at the beginning caused by a ground loop issue but after fixing it it is dead silence. Monolith also has stellar after sell service.


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post #16851 of 16904 Old 01-14-2020, 07:37 PM
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I had the Monolith 7X 200wpc in my cart several times but always backed off pulling the trigger after reading lots of complaints that they seem to introduce a audible noise floor into some systems. That would drive me nuts as i went through many months of dealing with another product that did that. That aside the increase of performance consistently reported to be significant over an AVR is tempting.
Well, if this helps at all, I have an Denon AVR-4311 and Revel Salon2s. I didn't magically hear angels singing when I added an Emotiva XPR-5 into the mix to power the Salon2s. With nearly three times the power, I can only hear a difference at >95dB and only if I'm REALLY trying to hear something. It could have just been my imagination though. I don't listen just to try to analyze what I'm hearing so the upgrade did nothing for me. I listen for the pure enjoyment of listening to music and I enjoyed it equally as much when the speakers were connected to the AVR.

I do understand your hesitation due to potentially high noise floor though. With super sensitive speakers that would be a definite concern.
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post #16852 of 16904 Old 01-14-2020, 07:43 PM
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I was listening in Direct Mode which bypasses crossovers and Audyssey. CD sends just 2.0 signal straight to Left and Right channels. Before with this receiver it sounded weak and nothing like the towers they are. Onkyo 2 channel sounded better and my old and original receiver to power these towers sounded better. Now since I was mostly with movies and sub it still sounded great I love the more channel of surround so I was good with what I had. This new amp made my towers sound better than they ever had. Bass became more prominent like I had small subwoofers with vocals much clearer. I am watching Life as I type this and in Atmos using all 9 speakers I have. I am not noticing as much of a difference as I did with Direct Mode 2 channel music.
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post #16853 of 16904 Old 01-14-2020, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by jsgrise View Post
Monolith also has stellar after sell service.
Not sure about the Monolith specifically, but that was not my experience with the company. As much as I would love to have good amps and processors (Monolith and HTP-1) at a reasonable price, I have sworn to never support or recommend them ever again. Their amps and processor would be at the top of my list for my upgrade to Atmos. I need a 16 channel processor and 10 amp channels to go with it to replace my current AVR. Worst case scenario, I can use my current AVR as an amp for the some of the smaller speakers.
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post #16854 of 16904 Old 01-15-2020, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by duc135 View Post
Not sure about the Monolith specifically, but that was not my experience with the company. As much as I would love to have good amps and processors (Monolith and HTP-1) at a reasonable price, I have sworn to never support or recommend them ever again. Their amps and processor would be at the top of my list for my upgrade to Atmos. I need a 16 channel processor and 10 amp channels to go with it to replace my current AVR. Worst case scenario, I can use my current AVR as an amp for the some of the smaller speakers.
Sorry you had a bad experience. From my experience and almost every other experience I have read from fellow AVSers, they have provided good care. They will replace the amp if there is any defect to it within the 5 year warranty.

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post #16855 of 16904 Old 01-15-2020, 06:30 AM
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I was revisiting an old classic, Pearl Harbor on Blu-Ray, and the 5.1 PCM sound track was good but not as good as I can remember. Bass was a bit weak and dry. Not sure if it's because it's getting old or there is something wrong with my setup:


MAKE AUDIO GREAT AGAIN | Dedicated Sonus faber HT 7.2.4 | FRONTS: Sonus Faber Venere 2.0 CENTER: Sonus Faber Venere Centre FRONT WIDES: Sonus Faber Venere 1.5 SURROUNDS: Sonus Faber Venere 1.5 TF/TR - ATMOS-DTS:X: Sonus Faber Venere Wall (4) | RECEIVER: Marantz SR7010 AMPLIFICATION: Monolith 7x200 | SUBWOOFERS: Dual 18" Dayton RSS460 Custom Build | Behringer iNuke 6000DSP | Velodyne SMS-1 DISPLAY: JVC D-ILA RS-46 w/ 128" 16:9 1.4 TREATMENT: Custom Bass Traps and Acoustic Panels (11)
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post #16856 of 16904 Old 01-15-2020, 06:45 AM
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Don't sleep on Homefront (2013), guys!

Go to right before the 30 min mark when he's at the gas station and hold on!

A very cool pulsating effect that the heatmap really doesn't call attention to.


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post #16857 of 16904 Old 01-15-2020, 07:03 AM
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30 dB hot? Ouch!!!

What do you typically set the Master Volume at. Setting your center at 3-6 db hotter than. Your mains doesn’t sound like a good idea. Are you not utilizing Audyssey?

I watch most movies when I'm home alone, so I turn up the MV until the SPL reaches the level I'm usually watching at. MV is usually between -12 and -5. It all varies with how hot a mix is and what dialnorm is applied ofc. My bass boost is +10db and rises to +15 total towards 20Hz. I use Audyssey, why are you asking? To my knowledge the old version of Audyssey on my AVR doesn't apply any corrections above 1khz. I wouldn't trust a diffuse field measurement much above that anyways. I'd rather take the speakers outside and do a free field measurement and integrate that into my system. If I could.

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post #16858 of 16904 Old 01-15-2020, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by jsgrise View Post
I was revisiting an old classic, Pearl Harbor on Blu-Ray, and the 5.1 PCM sound track was good but not as good as I can remember. Bass was a bit weak and dry. Not sure if it's because it's getting old or there is something wrong with my setup:
It's a 1998 movie, and I think it sounds as good as a movie from that time can sound, and one of the best of that era. I think it has content down to 20hz, but probably the bass doesn't sound as impactful as it if was released today, but IMO, it sounds pretty damn good. But yes, not as good as many recent war movies releases.

Edit: here's the heat map




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post #16859 of 16904 Old 01-15-2020, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Joshua Chmiel View Post
I was listening in Direct Mode which bypasses crossovers and Audyssey. CD sends just 2.0 signal straight to Left and Right channels. Before with this receiver it sounded weak and nothing like the towers they are. Onkyo 2 channel sounded better and my old and original receiver to power these towers sounded better.
I'm exactly experiencing that. 5.1/2.1 is great. 2.0 is lacking. My setup isn't as good as yours, but even with my old stereo setup and a modest active speaker I use to move around I get better results in stereo, specifically in terms of bass.

The only thing I can think about is that there's something with internally bypassing crossovers settings. But since my HT is mainly for, well, watching movies, I haven't bothered looking at it.



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post #16860 of 16904 Old 01-15-2020, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by peniku8 View Post
I watch most movies when I'm home alone, so I turn up the MV until the SPL reaches the level I'm usually watching at. MV is usually between -12 and -5. It all varies with how hot a mix is and what dialnorm is applied ofc. My bass boost is +10db and rises to +15 total towards 20Hz. I use Audyssey, why are you asking? To my knowledge the old version of Audyssey on my AVR doesn't apply any corrections above 1khz. I wouldn't trust a diffuse field measurement much above that anyways. I'd rather take the speakers outside and do a free field measurement and integrate that into my system. If I could.
I was curious if you were using Audyssey because that is a high boost on both your center and sub. Do you mean you have the sub set at a plus 12 trim level in your avr, or you just set it at 12 db hot when you ran Audyssey?

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