Will I notice a second, different sized sub in my system? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 32 Old 05-09-2017, 02:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Will I notice a second, different sized sub in my system?

I imagine this may seem like a goofy question to those of you really in the know, but I have just really started paying attention and money to my HT. I have an Onkyo TX-NR646 receiver set up as 7.1 with Polk RTi8 front L/R speakers, Polk CSi5 center channel, builder grade in ceiling rear & surround speakers and a Klipsch R10SW sub. Nearly all sourced from watching Fry's crazy sale ads, FWIW. Anyway, I am wondering if adding a second, larger 12" or 15" sub would make a noticeable, positive difference? Or would the subs kind of "walk all over" each other and muddy up the sound? Am I just being a typical guy and looking for reasons to spend money on electronics?

TIA

PS - Now that I have typed this and proofread it, I suspect I will be told to replace the crap ceiling speakers first!
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post #2 of 32 Old 05-09-2017, 03:00 PM
 
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Just as long as they are both ported or both sealed , they should get along together....You may have to move the R10 closer to your seating position so the new sub doesnt just drown it out....More than likely what its going to make you want to do is buy another 12" or 15" of whatever you get , so I would plan ahead for that!!! lol......

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post #3 of 32 Old 05-09-2017, 03:06 PM
 
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I started a little over a year ago also chasing Frys adds... Kept the Onkyo TX Nr646 and my Klipsch RP's I originally purchased and have went thru quite a few subs , and now im currently running 3 contemplating 4.....The biggest thing that will save you alot of time and headaches with subs , just how big of a basshead are you and what does your wallet and wife (if applicable) think???
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post #4 of 32 Old 05-09-2017, 07:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Pulloutchamp View Post
I started a little over a year ago also chasing Frys adds... Kept the Onkyo TX Nr646 and my Klipsch RP's I originally purchased and have went thru quite a few subs , and now im currently running 3 contemplating 4.....The biggest thing that will save you alot of time and headaches with subs , just how big of a basshead are you and what does your wallet and wife (if applicable) think???
Ha! Divorced, so now there is no one besides me to say "no". I'm not a huge basshead, but I definitely want more. Sounds like it would be OK to watch Fry's and grab the same family of Klipsch sub in a 12 or 15 (assuming they have a 15 in that family) and add it in.
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post #5 of 32 Old 05-10-2017, 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Pulloutchamp View Post
Just as long as they are both ported or both sealed
Alignment doesn't matter one bit unless subs are badly designed. In a blind test, one cannot tell them apart in performance.

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post #6 of 32 Old 05-10-2017, 06:44 AM
 
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Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post
Alignment doesn't matter one bit unless subs are badly designed. In a blind test, one cannot tell them apart in performance.
That goes against pretty much everything Ive read then....Is it impossible to run a ported sub and a sealed sub together? Probably not , but not usually recommended. Blindfold me and play a PB-2000 and an SB-2000 , and I will tell you which is which just based on pure output since Ive heard both...Well actually I had the PC2000 , same thing pretty much..Again , maybe something I dont know , but I was always under the impression that if you want to run multiple subs that they should be of the same box design not necessarily of the same brand but ported or sealed....
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post #7 of 32 Old 05-10-2017, 06:46 AM
 
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Originally Posted by wfodave View Post
Ha! Divorced, so now there is no one besides me to say "no". I'm not a huge basshead, but I definitely want more. Sounds like it would be OK to watch Fry's and grab the same family of Klipsch sub in a 12 or 15 (assuming they have a 15 in that family) and add it in.
I hear the Klipsch R-115SW is really good...that would definitely give you MORE!
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post #8 of 32 Old 05-10-2017, 07:25 AM
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Alignment doesn't matter one bit unless subs are badly designed. In a blind test, one cannot tell them apart in performance.
you missed his point...all he is saying is it's not recommended to mix ported or sealed alignments which I agree. Can it be done yes, but not easily.
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post #9 of 32 Old 05-10-2017, 07:58 AM
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you missed his point...all he is saying is it's not recommended to mix ported or sealed alignments which I agree. Can it be done yes, but not easily.


Basshead- Question for you. I currently use a v1801 up front. Thinking of adding a V15 behind my seating -nearfield. Good or bad idea?
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post #10 of 32 Old 05-10-2017, 08:06 AM
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post #11 of 32 Old 05-10-2017, 08:14 AM
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That should work great !!


Awesome. Been following your posts for months. Learning a lot off of you and some others on this forum.
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post #12 of 32 Old 05-10-2017, 08:19 AM
 
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Basshead- Question for you. I currently use a v1801 up front. Thinking of adding a V15 behind my seating -nearfield. Good or bad idea?
Sorry to jump in , I think its a good idea...Im running 2 1801's up front and decided to try out one of the V15's I have next to the couch in the picture..(dont know why they keep coming in upside down?) I got better results facing it away from the wall where the cats at towards the couch...The bass is more enveloping as opposed to a front stage of bass...Im sure it could be alot better if I had Bassheads knowledge/experience , but it sounds pretty good....I just had to mess with the delay a bit and still will be dialing it in as best as I can for the time being!
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post #13 of 32 Old 05-10-2017, 02:41 PM
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Will I notice a second, different sized sub in my system?

@basshead81
I don't mean to step in on the OP's thread but I'm actually wondering the same thing. I just got the Hsu VTF-3 MK5 15" sub and I love it! But, as you know with one sub there is that localization issue sometimes. Also, I'm running it wireless in the back corner and when watching tv at lower volumes it's going in and out. So, I'm thinking a smaller sub "wired" in the front would fix that issue and add a little more headroom, right? Not that this VTF3.5 needs help with headroom. I just don't want a huge sub in the front close to tv. I could slide the bookshelf to the left a little and fit a small sub in between the bookshelf and the left front speaker stand. A box no more than 14" wide and no more than 14-17" deep would be ideal. The height is not an issue. Bad idea?Thoughts anyone??

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post #14 of 32 Old 05-10-2017, 08:23 PM
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I would not put a smaller sub further away. You will be limiting the output capability of the larger sub and at that point you might as well of just went with a pair of smaller subs.
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post #15 of 32 Old 05-11-2017, 06:46 AM
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Will I notice a second, different sized sub in my system?

What about in my case, in the front close to the left front speaker? Run it wired just to have a little bass for normal tv? But, have it set so it's not trying to keep up with the VTF3.5 at higher volumes...? I just really don't want another 85lb huge box in my living room... not to mention that's another $800 plus...

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post #16 of 32 Old 05-11-2017, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Falconsfan71 View Post
What about in my case, in the front close to the left front speaker? Run it wired just to have a little bass for normal tv? But, have it set so it's not trying to keep up with the VTF3.5 at higher volumes...? I just really don't want another 85lb huge box in my living room... not to mention that's another $800 plus...
I know you already went though a couple wireless units but maybe trying yet another one to solve the low TV volume issue. The prior Dayton unit had always received very good reviews and their new unit is out. SVS is now selling it and they report testing frequency response down to 6Hz so no concern at least with that aspect. As far as wireless connectivity you'd just have to try it. Parts express is selling it at an introductory price of just $58. I just ordered one myself to allow experimenting with my sub placement and hopefully for eventually adding a second PC12+. Of course that doesn't help with the FR or localization issues of a single sub but for $60 may be worth a shot.
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post #17 of 32 Old 05-11-2017, 01:27 PM
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I know you already went though a couple wireless units but maybe trying yet another one to solve the low TV volume issue. The prior Dayton unit had always received very good reviews and their new unit is out. SVS is now selling it and they report testing frequency response down to 6Hz so no concern at least with that aspect. As far as wireless connectivity you'd just have to try it. Parts express is selling it at an introductory price of just $58. I just ordered one myself to allow experimenting with my sub placement and hopefully for eventually adding a second PC12+. Of course that doesn't help with the FR or localization issues of a single sub but for $60 may be worth a shot.


I've actually thought about it. If it didn't work any better I could send it back.


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I know you already went though a couple wireless units but maybe trying yet another one to solve the low TV volume issue. The prior Dayton unit had always received very good reviews and their new unit is out. SVS is now selling it and they report testing frequency response down to 6Hz so no concern at least with that aspect. As far as wireless connectivity you'd just have to try it. Parts express is selling it at an introductory price of just $58. I just ordered one myself to allow experimenting with my sub placement and hopefully for eventually adding a second PC12+. Of course that doesn't help with the FR or localization issues of a single sub but for $60 may be worth a shot.
I had a Dayton unit from about a year ago...Plays well , but the wire connections are terrible , its like setting a mousetrap with the power and sound ins/outs....I would put it down and connections fall out...Better connections would be a plus!
PS: Let me know when you want a 2nd PC12+ , got 2 new ones in the garage
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post #19 of 32 Old 05-12-2017, 04:55 PM
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I had a Dayton unit from about a year ago...Plays well , but the wire connections are terrible , its like setting a mousetrap with the power and sound ins/outs....I would put it down and connections fall out...Better connections would be a plus!
PS: Let me know when you want a 2nd PC12+ , got 2 new ones in the garage
Hmm. Good to know. Hopefully the new design is better.

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Hmm. Good to know. Hopefully the new design is better.


Let me know what you think. I've heard the cables or connections have had issues. Maybe this new one is better! Also, look how short the power cord is. Does it just hang down from the outlet? Weird!


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I really want a second sub but damn I don't really want to spend another $800 plus not to mention aesthetically it's not practical for my living room. But, what do you do? Looks or bass? Haha


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post #22 of 32 Old 05-13-2017, 08:34 AM
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Let me know what you think. I've heard the cables or connections have had issues. Maybe this new one is better! Also, look how short the power cord is. Does it just hang down from the outlet? Weird!


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Ok will let you know. I did get it but didn't test it yet. Took one day. Didn't realize Parts Express was only a few hours away here in OH. I did plug them in accross the room and they paired quickly. The connections seemed solid. Yes the design is a bit odd. You either need an extension cord or a longer mono rca to 1/8" plug unless your sub is sittting right next to an outlet. The unit itself is incredibly small.

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post #23 of 32 Old 05-13-2017, 09:04 AM
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Ahh so the OSD is doing the same thing as the RF unit was? Fwiw the slight issue I was having with one of my RF units ended up being a cable issue. I replaced all my cables with media bridge stuff and my RF units are working flawless again!! Also I have noticed that the wireless stuff really works best 15ft or closer...once you get 16ft +, you start getting drop outs and sync issues. It looks like the new Outlaw unit should have better range with the antenna.
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Ahh so the OSD is doing the same thing as the RF unit was? Fwiw the slight issue I was having with one of my RF units ended up being a cable issue. I replaced all my cables with media bridge stuff and my RF units are working flawless again!! Also I have noticed that the wireless stuff really works best 15ft or closer...once you get 16ft +, you start getting drop outs and sync issues. It looks like the new Outlaw unit should have better range with the antenna.
Ya I debated the outlaw unit. It seems like a solid unit with apparently no delay. I figured since the new Dayton unit got SVS's support after testing it and that right now it was half the price at Parts Express I went for it. If it doesn't work for me Outlaw is next.

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post #25 of 32 Old 05-13-2017, 03:51 PM
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The OSD Audio kit worked flawless with the PB-1000 but not so great at low volumes with the VTF3.5... ugh! On music or movies at higher volumes it works great!


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post #26 of 32 Old 05-14-2017, 07:38 AM
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back on topic.. So, adding a smaller sub is not a good idea? Let's say a 10" or 12" sub in the front facing the MLP to go with a 15" in the rear corner..? Or just get a second identical sub even though you don't want to spend that much plus the size factor and two of these VTF3.5's taking up all of your living room..?


"But it's so big!"

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post #27 of 32 Old 05-14-2017, 04:24 PM
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back on topic.. So, adding a smaller sub is not a good idea? Let's say a 10" or 12" sub in the front facing the MLP to go with a 15" in the rear corner..? Or just get a second identical sub even though you don't want to spend that much plus the size factor and two of these VTF3.5's taking up all of your living room..?


"But it's so big!"
Well two of the same subs are best. Adding a smaller sub nearfield would work. Since you have your larger sub in back I don't know how nice they will play together. Sometimes you just have to experiment. With all these sub companies offering returns this may be your best route. That is a nice room by the way. When I built my house I designed the HT because my wife hated big black boxes in her living room. I like big black shiny boxes so I put all of them in my HT.

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post #28 of 32 Old 05-14-2017, 04:31 PM
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@basshead81
I don't mean to step in on the OP's thread but I'm actually wondering the same thing. I just got the Hsu VTF-3 MK5 15" sub and I love it! But, as you know with one sub there is that localization issue sometimes. Also, I'm running it wireless in the back corner and when watching tv at lower volumes it's going in and out. So, I'm thinking a smaller sub "wired" in the front would fix that issue and add a little more headroom, right? Not that this VTF3.5 needs help with headroom. I just don't want a huge sub in the front close to tv. I could slide the bookshelf to the left a little and fit a small sub in between the bookshelf and the left front speaker stand. A box no more than 14" wide and no more than 14-17" deep would be ideal. The height is not an issue. Bad idea?Thoughts anyone??
I think a v3601 would look great left of your tv. You could even put the M on it.
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post #29 of 32 Old 05-14-2017, 05:26 PM
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Well two of the same subs are best. Adding a smaller sub nearfield would work. Since you have your larger sub in back I don't know how nice they will play together. Sometimes you just have to experiment. With all these sub companies offering returns this may be your best route. That is a nice room by the way. When I built my house I designed the HT because my wife hated big black boxes in her living room. I like big black shiny boxes so I put all of them in my HT.


I hope my next house has a designated theater room! I don't think an 11x11 spare bedroom would make a good one! :/


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Denon X4300H * Def Tech BP8080st front L/R * Def Tech CLR2002 center * Def Tech ProMonitor 800 surrounds (x4) * Hsu VTF-3 MK5 HP sub * Outlaw OAW4 wireless sub kit * Vizio 60" 4K HDRtv * Sony UBP-X800 Bluray * PS4 * AC Infinity S9 AVR fan
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post #30 of 32 Old 05-15-2017, 06:28 AM
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Bass is so no-directional you will not notice the difference between two different subs.
Now some people actually use two different subs to even out the frequency response in the room. Maybe one sub can go deep but not loud, the other can go loud but not deep.

7.2: Yamaha RX-A830 | Klipsch Synergy F30 + C20 + Sub12x2 + Onkyo HTIB Surrounds | Epson HC2040 Silver Ticket 120 inch Grey Screen
5.1: Yamaha RX-V475 | Mirage Omni 550 Onkyo HTIB Center + Surrounds + 12 inch Sub | Samsung 55 inch Smart 3DTV
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