PSA V1801 or something better ??? - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 62 Old 07-10-2017, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Docethic View Post
Are you comparing the v1801 directly with a single 15v in the same position? Are you sure you have maxed out the headroom of the 15v? The difference should be noticeable but not night and day difference as they have similar low end performance.
The OP sent back the 15Vs in exchange for a V1801, so no direct comparison.

However, per Tom, the V1801 should have 3 dB more output down low over the 15V. I think the OP likes the higher output up top from the V1801.

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post #32 of 62 Old 07-10-2017, 02:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Docethic View Post
Are you comparing the v1801 directly with a single 15v in the same position? Are you sure you have maxed out the headroom of the 15v? The difference should be noticeable but not night and day difference as they have similar low end performance.
Trust me I did several tests and it is night and day difference, don't get wrong I like the 15V but in my house it was not able to get low enough for me and my listening taste. Plus my wife was so upset with me ordering more equipment but after she was able to experience the V1801 she advised me to get another for her. So I know for a fact it was a huge upgrade in my theater. But like I said the 15V were also good but I just believe for my space it was not able to justify the price because it was unable to give us that impact (tactile response) the V1801 was able to do for us

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post #33 of 62 Old 07-10-2017, 02:44 PM
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My experience with the XV15 Ice basically a 15v vs the V1801 is the 1801 is quite a bit stonger above 30hz, but similar in the deep bass. The 1801 also digs 2-3hz deeper. I suspect the Dual 15V we're not fully optmized because I liked my XV15 ICE trio better then a single V1801. I also did not feel that dual V1801 would be substantially enough of a improvement to spend the extra coin swapping, but starting new I would go dual 1801 for sure... Dual 15v should be stronger in the 16-25hz and similar above 30hz compared to a single V1801.
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post #34 of 62 Old 07-11-2017, 12:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iceatola View Post
Trust me I did several tests and it is night and day difference, don't get wrong I like the 15V but in my house it was not able to get low enough for me and my listening taste. Plus my wife was so upset with me ordering more equipment but after she was able to experience the V1801 she advised me to get another for her. So I know for a fact it was a huge upgrade in my theater. But like I said the 15V were also good but I just believe for my space it was not able to justify the price because it was unable to give us that impact (tactile response) the V1801 was able to do for us
What? She said order another? Win! Win! Win!

What size is your room and how far away is the sub placed? That was a good sample of movies you tested IMHO.

What you experienced with the V1801 vs the FV15HP (and FV18) is something I am trying to better understand. While the Rythmiks dig deeper in frequency response the PSA V1801 has more tactile energy (even with Rythmik on LOW damping). This extra "feel" goes a long way with movies. I don't think the V1801 necessarily provided more output vs 2 15Vs but simply more tactile energy. Does that seem accurate @iceatola ?

Are you on carpet or hard floor? @basshead81 's XV subs serve as side tables and have a wood platform that may give them an advantage over today's 15Vs in certain situations.

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post #35 of 62 Old 07-11-2017, 07:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
What? She said order another? Win! Win! Win!

What size is your room and how far away is the sub placed? That was a good sample of movies you tested IMHO.

What you experienced with the V1801 vs the FV15HP (and FV18) is something I am trying to better understand. While the Rythmiks dig deeper in frequency response the PSA V1801 has more tactile energy (even with Rythmik on LOW damping). This extra "feel" goes a long way with movies. I don't think the V1801 necessarily provided more output vs 2 15Vs but simply more tactile energy. Does that seem accurate @iceatola ?

Are you on carpet or hard floor? @basshead81 's XV subs serve as side tables and have a wood platform that may give them an advantage over today's 15Vs in certain situations.

I really did like the 15V's but it was just not enough umph in my settings for me to justify the price. The V1801 is MUCH stronger in my location so I just know adding another would make my setup perfect for me. I did a head to head battle with the 15V, Rythmik FV15HP & V1801 and from my experience the V1801 won it by overall performance. Now I only compared it with one of the 15V subs because I wanted to see how much more bass response I would be getting out of just 1 because this will give me a fair comparison out of the subs. If I was only going to buy just one of the 1801's then I would have matched it up with the dual 15's to see if I could live with just one vs 2 but because I am now going to buy me another V1801 I decided to score the test fairly. Again in my environment the Rythmik dig deeper in FR but the overall output of the V1801 won me over in the end. And to answer your question yes I am on carpet as well. If anybody is interested in the 15V Tom should be selling some of those in the B stock section real soon if it has not already been sold.

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post #36 of 62 Old 07-11-2017, 11:10 AM
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@iceatola how did the 15V and FV15HP compare?
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post #37 of 62 Old 07-15-2017, 11:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
@iceatola how did the 15V and FV15HP compare?
Overall output was right on par with the Rythmik but the 15V failed in the deep bass department

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post #38 of 62 Old 08-18-2017, 03:58 AM
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What are your thoughts now that you have 2 V1801?
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post #39 of 62 Old 08-20-2017, 10:12 PM
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why did you not consider the s3000i? because it is sealed? it has more power then both 15v combined

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post #40 of 62 Old 08-20-2017, 10:24 PM
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The 3000i is significantly more powerful then a 15v above 40hz and below 15hz. Around 15v port tune, output is fairly close. 3000i going to have serious mid bass slam!!
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post #41 of 62 Old 08-21-2017, 12:38 PM
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why did you not consider the s3000i? because it is sealed? it has more power then both 15v combined
Than two 15Vs? I don't believe that to be true.
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post #42 of 62 Old 08-21-2017, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Than two 15Vs? I don't believe that to be true.
Prob looking at just the amp specs with 1700W for the S3000i and 1400W for dual 15Vs. The 15Vs are going to have a significant advantage around port tune, despite that. Also I think the 1700W amp is a Speakerpower 1400W unit (two 700W modules) but maybe adjusted for impedance for the dual 15s.
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post #43 of 62 Old 03-26-2018, 04:10 AM
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I own (2) PSA V1801 Vented subs. You really have to movie those heavy and that makes it difficult. I just think the JTR118 is so cheaply made. The can have the wow factor however, most movies have a TON of Bass design set to go low loaf. I would've got a car instead of his newer car because he doesn't like paying for things yet.

My problem is that I used the subs 95% using a Denon receiver and an Adcom GFA-555. Nice 2 channel speakers (Klipch RF-7's). My Denon Receiver is made for home theater. The is my first time using XT32. I have to admit that these PSA V1801 only made the ground shake it off, so we put all of these in total and I have to admit

Quote:
Originally Posted by LFE Junkie View Post
If you can swing $99 extra, the JTR 118 would be extremely hard to beat:


http://jtrspeakers.com/captivator-118ht.html

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post #44 of 62 Old 03-26-2018, 04:41 AM
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Originally Posted by tedhontz View Post
I own (2) PSA V1801 Vented subs. You really have to movie those heavy and that makes it difficult. I just think the JTR118 is so cheaply made. The can have the wow factor however, most movies have a TON of Bass design set to go low loaf. I would've got a car instead of his newer car because he doesn't like paying for things yet.



My problem is that I used the subs 95% using a Denon receiver and an Adcom GFA-555. Nice 2 channel speakers (Klipch RF-7's).

None of this post made much sense. Also, I’ve never heard anyone call JTR products cheaply made, as they all use high end components as good or better than their competitors, and I haven’t seen Jeff’s craftsmanship come into question.

I don’t own any JTR products.

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post #45 of 62 Old 03-26-2018, 02:42 PM
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I haven’t seen Jeff’s craftsmanship come into question.
If you read the history of my posts over the years, I was never a huge fan of the flat black ported JTRs, especially compared to the PSAs (I always loved the JTR premium finishes and wished veneers were offered for ported PSAs). I always felt that the woofer being so low on the Cap 1400 was awkward.

There have been jabs back and forth between the JTR and PSA business owners (especially when the V1801 and Cap 118HT were first announced). It has been implied and even directly stated that JTR's port construction doesn't match the fit & finish of the PSAs (and it doesn't IMO, PSA's does look better!).

After actually experiencing the JTR 118HT I was astounded. The smaller cabinet of the V1801 does allow more placement flexibility (which can be extremely important). The absolute performance of the Cap 118HT exceeded the V1801 on almost every other metric. (I wanted to buy a pair of 118HTs but my wife wanted the single 2400ULF instead.)

Despite my OCD need for symmetry, I now realize JTR's low-riding woofers (which I had disparaged) serve a function. Keeping the woofer closer to the floor seems to better take advantage of the boundary gain from the floor (I confirmed this by laying a Rythmik FV18 horizontally). While PSA's ports do look better JTR's port performance absolutely nullifies any cosmetic differences for me. The minimal noise the JTR ports make is not a chuff, it is the sound of fast moving air (you have to be very close to even really hear it in most cases). The volume of air passing through the JTR ports is unlike any other I have experienced.

The PSA V1801 is a very good sub for the right applications. A pair worked out better than JTR Cap 1400s for @imureh . The V1801 is simply in a different category/class than the JTR (and their pricetags reflect this). Plus, PSA does have the higher performing V3601.

I consider the V1801 among the ultimate 15" subs because that is the category it best fits (and nobody comes close ti the customer service that PSA and SVS provide!). Enclosure volume is a critical parameter which cannot be ignored. The ergonomics of the V1801 just come with trade-offs. For example, the Monoprice Monolith 15 outperforms the V1801 (and any other 15" I know of). But, it is the size of a 18" JTR if not bigger and also costs more than a V1801.

I've been been both attacked and thanked numerously for simply sharing these facts (there were ~20 witnesses, including several industry insiders). If you doubt just read the comments by the ID vendors before and after the head-to-head re: V1801 vs Cap 118HT and Rythmik FV18. (TL, DR: It was unfair to compare the V1801 to the more expensive and larger 118HT and FV18.)

While I have experienced (and bought) subs from almost every ID vendor (I believe DSS and XTZ are the only I have yet to), I don't work for any ID manufacturer. I write for the enthusiasts, the consumers. No one has yet to complain that I have steered them in the wrong direction regarding their bass. I believe @imureh can atest even though his results were not what I predicted.

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post #46 of 62 Old 03-26-2018, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
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@imureh can atest even though his results were not what I predicted.
I agree with everything Marc has stated here. His recommendation for sealed for my room with the submersive HPs was spot on. The V1801 was incidental find as the submersive kept tripping my breaker. I tried the Cap 1400 but as Marc said it did not work in the room as well as the V1801 did, plus they integrated much more easily than the Cap and I saved over $1k doing it. I could have tried the Rythmik FV18 but again the size was a limiting factor. One other thing that I noted was that the Cap and V1801 had very different sound signature and I preferred the V1801s, I had been after chest slam and that fell right in the sweet spot of the V1801 which with duals in sealed 2100 cuft on a suspended floor was just outstanding. Marc has a lot more knowledge than me and has been very accurate in his recommendations without bias which I really appreciated. Testing subs in your room does let you really see how everything will work together. What may look best on paper may not be the best when in the room...

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post #47 of 62 Old 03-26-2018, 10:34 PM
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Agree with pretty much all of the above, except...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
I consider the V1801 among the ultimate 15" subs because that is the category it best fits (and nobody comes close ti the customer service that PSA and SVS provide!). Enclosure volume is a critical parameter which cannot be ignored. The ergonomics of the V1801 just come with trade-offs. For example, the Monoprice Monolith 15 outperforms the V1801 (and any other 15" I know of). But, it is the size of a 18" JTR if not bigger and also costs more than a V1801.
Monoprice Monolith 15" does not have higher output numbers >40Hz than the Rythmik FV15HP. Though I have not heard the FV15HP, I wouldn't be surprised if the Monolith 15" more than make up the difference with even better SQ and the lack of chuffing.

The PSA V1801 does have higher output numbers > 32Hz and is more expensive than the Monolith 15".

The Monolith 15" is just a tad smaller than the JTR Cap 118HT or 1400. This means it has a huge enclosure, which contributes to its low extension, and allows more than sufficient port area and length, which eliminated virtually all chuffing.

Did I mention that the Monolith 15" has excellent SQ, astonishingly low distortion and almost does not chuff???

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post #48 of 62 Old 05-28-2018, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedhontz View Post
I own (2) PSA V1801 Vented subs. You really have to movie those heavy and that makes it difficult. I just think the JTR118 is so cheaply made. The can have the wow factor however, most movies have a TON of Bass design set to go low loaf. I would've got a car instead of his newer car because he doesn't like paying for things yet.

My problem is that I used the subs 95% using a Denon receiver and an Adcom GFA-555. Nice 2 channel speakers (Klipch RF-7's). My Denon Receiver is made for home theater. The is my first time using XT32. I have to admit that these PSA V1801 only made the ground shake it off, so we put all of these in total and I have to admit
I also have to admit that the following above is hard to read and makes no sense. Furthermore, I did not write this paragraph. Someone has hacked my account or is playing games. I do in fact own a Denon Receiver AVR-X4300H. I also own an Adcom GFA-555 amp. I do own a pair of Klipsch RF-7 speakers. And finally I do own (2) Power Sound Audio (PSA V1801) 1900W peak per sub or 725W RMS per sub.

My previous receiver was a Sony ES STR-ZA3000ES. I wanted to go to an Atmos setup so I switched to the Denon receiver. In my honest opinion the Atmos setup wasn't worth switching and the Denon receiver is inferior to the Sony ES receiver in most every way. Sony ES= 5 year warranty. Denon is either 1 year or 3 years max, I can't remember. The Sony ES is more user friendly. Most importantly the Sony ES not only is built better, but it sounds better. My new Denon receiver has more Midrange but it lacks other important sounds. I'm still using my Adcom GFA-555 external amp and I love it. The most disappointing out of my setup is my (2) new Power Sound Audio PSA V-1801 18" Powered Subs. They hit really low notes for movies, but they do almost nothing for music. They are not musical at all and I am very disappointed in them. I would never recommend. That was $2800 down the drain.

Hopefully this clears everything up. I honestly did not post that original post and it has words used and incorrect grammar that just doesn't match my writing. I hope this helps everyone!
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post #49 of 62 Old 05-28-2018, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedhontz View Post
I also have to admit that the following above is hard to read and makes no sense. Furthermore, I did not write this paragraph. Someone has hacked my account or is playing games. I do in fact own a Denon Receiver AVR-X4300H. I also own an Adcom GFA-555 amp. I do own a pair of Klipsch RF-7 speakers. And finally I do own (2) Power Sound Audio (PSA V1801) 1900W peak per sub or 725W RMS per sub.

My previous receiver was a Sony ES STR-ZA3000ES. I wanted to go to an Atmos setup so I switched to the Denon receiver. In my honest opinion the Atmos setup wasn't worth switching and the Denon receiver is inferior to the Sony ES receiver in most every way. Sony ES= 5 year warranty. Denon is either 1 year or 3 years max, I can't remember. The Sony ES is more user friendly. Most importantly the Sony ES not only is built better, but it sounds better. My new Denon receiver has more Midrange but it lacks other important sounds. I'm still using my Adcom GFA-555 external amp and I love it. The most disappointing out of my setup is my (2) new Power Sound Audio PSA V-1801 18" Powered Subs. They hit really low notes for movies, but they do almost nothing for music. They are not musical at all and I am very disappointed in them. I would never recommend. That was $2800 down the drain.

Hopefully this clears everything up. I honestly did not post that original post and it has words used and incorrect grammar that just doesn't match my writing. I hope this helps everyone!

Have you reached out to PSA and possibly exchange one for a S1801 or S3001? The other option would be to build a couple MBM which is probably what you're lacking in the music.
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post #50 of 62 Old 05-29-2018, 12:53 AM
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PSA has a 60-day trial/return windown. Why would anyone just consider it money down thr drain?

Many complaints like this are either not real, or are simply not setup properly.
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post #51 of 62 Old 05-29-2018, 01:18 AM
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Not to mention he got the price for 2 V1801’s wrong. $2800 is the msrp X 2 but if you’ve actually ever done business with PSA, you’d know there is a discount for dual subs. Twitter bots are more coherent than the guy complaining about Denon AVRs “lacking other important sounds” and the PSA subs “not being musical at all”. I dunno what Tom did in a past life to attract trolls like this. It’s ridiculous.

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post #52 of 62 Old 05-29-2018, 06:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gob Bluth View Post
Not to mention he got the price for 2 V1801’s wrong. $2800 is the msrp X 2 but if you’ve actually ever done business with PSA, you’d know there is a discount for dual subs. Twitter bots are more coherent than the guy complaining about Denon AVRs “lacking other important sounds” and the PSA subs “not being musical at all”. I dunno what Tom did in a past life to attract trolls like this. It’s ridiculous.
I did receive a discount for getting two subs. I was not able to try them for 60 days. To explain why, here is the story. My old house got flooded and I lost two good subwoofers. My insurance gutted my house and rehabbed it. When it was done it looked like new and I decided that was the best time to sell the house. My insurance company wanted to reimburse me for the subs and I had sold my house but I didn't have a new house yet. I stored the 2 subs in my parents' garage. By the time I got a house and then finally setup my new home theater room, it was more like 6 months, not 60 days. I have 4 subwoofers in the room. I have a basic 12" Klipsch sub, a homemade sub using a BASH 500S amp and a 15" subwoofer (PB Bass), and I have the two new PSA V-1801 subs.

I have tried moving the V-1801 subs all over the room to different corners and then I noticed that when music is pumping, the Klipsch sub and the homemade sub that I made out of a former Fosgate Audionics body, with the BASH 500S amp and the PB Bass sub, they were moving back and forth and were very musical. The PSA V-1801 subs, at a HIGHER level, were hardly moving at all. So it's not placement, it's the subs. And they are turned up plenty loud, at a level of about 75%. My two inferior subs were drowning out the new big subs so I had to turn their level down to about 20%. Now, when I'm watching a movie and an explosion happens, yes the PSA V-1801 subs do work great. But when I'm listening to music, and music with bass, the PSA-1801 subs hardly move.

Even after receiving a discount for buying two subs, I could've bought two SVS subs but with the hype of owning an 18" driver, I skipped the smaller SVS subs and focused on Rhythmik and Power Sound Audio. Due to the amp comparisons I went with PSA. And now as an owner of 2 of their subs, and having owned MANY subs in the past from other well known brands and some not well known brands such as Elemental Designs, I can say for sure that these PSA subs are very disappointing for anything but movies on big bass scenes. For the money I spent on the PSA subs, I should've went with SVS because the PSA subs are basically a waste of electricity. I use my system for mostly music and rarely music, and music is not the category that these subs shine in.
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post #53 of 62 Old 05-29-2018, 06:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
It's pretty clear you don't know what you are doing or this is a Troll account.
Sorry. Real person and a real user. You explain to me what exactly I'm doing wrong and I'll see if I can get my PSA V1801's to sound better. But all that you are offering are insults.
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post #54 of 62 Old 05-29-2018, 06:26 AM
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Since when has a sub "moving" a sign of it being musical? Your explanation of why the PSA are not good does not make any sense.

Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD
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post #55 of 62 Old 05-29-2018, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedhontz View Post
Sorry. Real person and a real user. You explain to me what exactly I'm doing wrong and I'll see if I can get my PSA V1801's to sound better. But all that you are offering are insults.
First, you post this rant in a thread that is over a year old. Why would you not post in the PSA thread asking for some help? The V1801 does fine with music and has some serious midbass slam. I auditioned one and compared it to other subs I own including SVS.
The part where you said the driver barely moves tells me they are not set up correctly.
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post #56 of 62 Old 05-29-2018, 06:59 AM
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Hi all,

Please let's not always assume the worst in these scenarios. Admittedly we have had our share of trolls (one person using multiple accounts) like shady, lfe junkie, etc. I think I stopped counting when junkie got to 10. There's some of this still going on today with others but that's always going to come with the territory so to speak. By and large the avs mods do a superlative job in that regard.

I hope tedh will take bass81 invitation to participate in the PSA thread. I bet we can make some significant improvements, and do so quickly..

Let's start with the basic over there.

* room size
* avr settings
* sub settings
* sub placement
* time alignment between sub 1 and sub 2,
* time alignment between subs and full range channels.
* seating position

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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post #57 of 62 Old 05-29-2018, 07:08 AM
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I did weeks of research for a new sub (V1801 coming this week), I have a DIY sonotube (Blueprint 15") that's crazy good but it's going on 17yrs now. This is really one of the only negative post I've seen on the V1801. Maybe a problem with set-up, cancelling each other out. Take Tom's advice and work the problem out.
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post #58 of 62 Old 05-29-2018, 07:19 AM
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If it sounds good for movies and not music I have to believe it is coming down to a receiver setting/configuration. When you listen to music, are you using a different mode on your receiver? Have you walked through some of the proper bass management procedures?
https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofe...gs-made-simple

I don't own a PSA sub, but I gotta believe that once you get them setup and working correctly it will make you want to get rid of the other lesser performing subs.
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post #59 of 62 Old 05-29-2018, 07:29 AM
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https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...eferences.html

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...read-1426.html

The V1801s are much more capable than your other subs. I suggest turning them off and getting the V1801s setup properly. The V1801s will move less to produce a similar output. Moving like "crazy" is not good as the drivers are likely exceeding their linear range and the motor is losing control. You have probably gotten use to the boominess and distortion of the other subs.

Start over with just the PSAs. Read the sub calibration thread. Participate in the PSA thread. You will change your tune, I promise!
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post #60 of 62 Old 05-29-2018, 07:45 AM
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I'm posting in this spot because I found a post by me that was never written by me.

Here it is:
I own (2) PSA V1801 Vented subs. You really have to movie those heavy and that makes it difficult. I just think the JTR118 is so cheaply made. The can have the wow factor however, most movies have a TON of Bass design set to go low loaf. I would've got a car instead of his newer car because he doesn't like paying for things yet.



My problem is that I used the subs 95% using a Denon receiver and an Adcom GFA-555. Nice 2 channel speakers (Klipch RF-7's).

NOW, I've never typed the word JTR118 in my life! I've never used the phrase "the wow factor" because I hate that phrase. There are spelling errors like, set to go loaf? I would of got a car instead of his newer car? WTF? I own 13 company cars and 5 personal cars! Last thing I need is a car!

So, I originally got on here to defend myself against this dumb hillbilly post. My only point is that I have 2 cheaper and smaller subs that outperform the V1801's in every spot that I place them. I've adjusted every setting possible for subwoofers and bass. I'm done posting to this old post and I will post in the correct spot from now on. I am not giving up on my subs. I have hired Classic Stereo to come to my house and figure out why these subs aren't producing well on music, when my other inferior subs are producing well on music. I think the build quality is great on the PSA V1801, another thing that my unauthorized post said. I think Tom is a great person and offers excellent customer service. And I KNOW these subs put out bass because on movies when bombs are droppings and things are exploding, these V1801's definitely shake the room! They just fall flat, for me, on music, for some reason. I hope that Classic Stereo can figure that out and change this.
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