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Recommendations for sub you cannot feel

966 views 16 replies 12 participants last post by  animeking 
#1 ·
I realize that I may have different taste from a lot of the people on this forum but I would like a little subwoofer advice.


I recently sold my HSU VTF1. While it was excellent, it didn’t match with my tastes and room. I had 2 issues with it. I realize now that I don’t like feeling bass, almost at all. On my Denon 1910, I didn’t have LFC to remove the low bass notes.


I also don’t like if I can distinguish where the bass is coming from.  The large VTF1 could only fit next to my couch on either side and it was noticeable where the noise was coming from. Some of my favorite stereo systems didn’t have expensive bass in them. I was thinking about getting a cheap sub with minimal low range. I might even be able to get 2, and put them on either side of my couch.


Do you guys have any recommendations for entry level subs that are musical and not deep? Maybe I should go for a 6". Or maybe find a sub with LFC build in.


What do you think?
 
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#2 ·
Interestingly enough, I'm looking to upgrade out of the primary trait you're looking for in a sub right now.

I'm actually looking to get out of my dual Polk PSW108s because there is room filling bass I can "hear" but there is no "Thump" that you feel when explosions go off.

So.. I guess I would suggest polk PSW108 for room filling bass you can hear but not feel.
 
#3 ·
I'm not sure what you mean as in your AVR when you set your speakers to 'small" when using a sub(s) you can adjust the crossover setting so only the lowest frequencies go to the sub below the crossover point and the frequencies above the crossover are played by the rest of the speakers.

In my secondary room I had the same problem you had with one subwoofer on the right side of my couch but adding an identical one to the right solved all localization issues and the bass seems to come from "everywhere/nowhere" and it worked out great.

In my case I used two very inexpensive Yamaha SW012 subwoofers, less than $90 each from Accessories4less refurbished.

If you have the budget, a pair of Emotiva BasX S8s would work even better.
 
#4 ·
I should clarify. I'm interested in no longer hearing any or much bass below 27 hz or so. ( I don't know the exact number that you start to feel a lot)
I was interested in a sub with low frequency cut off or just a cheap one that doesn't extend that low typically.
I'm glad that 2 subs fixes the localization issue. Hope the wife doesn't mind too much though. ;)
 
#6 ·
Just get a good set if tower speakers that perform down to 30Hz and don't worry about getting a sub at all.
 
#7 ·
The large VTF1 could only fit next to my couch on either side and it was noticeable where the noise was coming from.
You had the crossover frequency set too high and/or the sub was too loud. The latter would make sense, since you didn't care for the bass it put out.
Maybe I should go for a 6".
If it's loaded with a 6" driver it's not a subwoofer. Even most 8" barely qualify. If the low frequency extension and output of 6" drivers is adequate for your tastes then that's what you should use, in your mains, with no subs.
 
#10 ·
Just lower the level of you sub, or skip the sub altogether. You don't need a sub. If you set your speakers to large in Audyssey they will get the full signal.
 
#11 ·
I've been running with Energy RC30 speakers as my fronts, with my sub disconnected for about 2 years. I run them on "small" so that I can cut off the bass at night when people are sleeping.
I wanted something that I could turn the bass up during the day and turn it down easily at night without going into the settings.
The emotive, Polk and Yamaha sound interesting. Polk and the Yamaha may be better because they don't go as well, plus they cost less.
I'll cross out the 6 inch idea.

Thanks!
 
#12 ·
The VTF-1 is a 10" sub with a 250 watt amp. Did you even try to turn down the level on the sub and plug the ports for sealed mode? I see no reason why you could not find some balance to meet your listening needs. Maybe the close location does not work in your room for your lean bass taste?

Maybe a small sealed 6.5" or 8" really is what you are after? What about the micro 8" cube Energy ESW-M6? Maybe its small enough to place it away from the couch.

http://www.energy-speakers.com/subwoofers/?sku=ESW-M6#specs
https://www.amazon.com/Energy-ESW-M6-Subwoofer-Discontinued-Manufacturer/dp/B001RQ1R8U
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...TR0.TRC0.H0.XESW-M6.TRS0&_nkw=ESW-M6&_sacat=0
 
#14 ·
Good tips guys. I'll try to cover what I have looked into.

I feel that I'm trying to do a lot with the wrong tool.

Blocking a port on the HSU makes it quieter but deeper bass. I kept the port open but turned it way down. I could turn it up a little and hear it but the system felt too boomy.

I wrote to the guys on the denon avs forum and they told me that I would need a low frequency cutoff.

I moved the sub around the rear of the room trying to eliminate localization. He best position was left of the couch. It was too big to move it to the front of the room and left of tv. I ended up just limiting the sub's crossover freq. This essentially eliminate the parts of the sub that I liked and left me with the deep notes. I ended up just never using it.

I do feel that the room is a little boomy. This may be the wall behind the tv is not insulated and inside it is a bathroom. The bathroom gets very full of bass when playing loudly.

I have attached some pics for you to see.

I'll play around with the settings on the denon to turn up the tower bass today and let you know.

I also just talked to a friend and am going to try to borrow his old 10" Yamaha from a Home theater in a box. It will be interesting to see how that sounds.

Recording the sound would be nice but I'm kinda limited in resources and projects.

The ideas about making it work with my current hsu are moot because I sold it. I feel like my best bet is buying a smaller one and placing it to the left of the entertainment stand at the front of the room. If it turns out to not push enough air, I can buy a second one and surround my couch.
 

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#13 · (Edited)
I'm no Denon expert, but I see that in your Manual, pg49, it has a Menu for both BASS and TREBLE Control...although it didn't say whether it ALSO controlled LFE Output Level. And on pg50 it provides a short description of MANUAL EQ overrride of Audyssey EQ Settings....you want to control the 63-Hz Octave Filter Setting, depending on how much energy you want in the 40-80 Hz region. This can be selected to work on ALL Channels, as well as Individual Channels....hopefully incl. JUST the SW Output.

If you FEEL rather than HEAR SW at moderate to soft listening levels, it is either NOT set up right or your ROOM MODES are being overly excited by poor SW placement (Corners are the WORST)....which can be made even Worse if any of the Room Dimensions are roughly the SAME, doubly enhancing thee SAME Room Modes. Unfortunately the Denon Audyssey EQ only has a single ONE-SIZE-FITS-ALL Bass Filter....which has minimal effect on SUB-BASS Freqs (15-40 Hz). To provide sufficient Frequency granularity, I use and recommend a 1/3-Octave Band Equalizer inserted between AVR's SW RCA Output Jack and the SW's Amp, such as:
https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-31-Band-Graphic-Equalizer-Subwoofer/dp/B00KLRP5CK

For more info re. Audyssey EQ see the fol thread, who initially had the OPPOSITE Problem....total lack of SUB-BASS due to incorrect Audyssey Set-Up.....with a VERY BOOMY Response centered on 45 and 63 Hz due to Room Mode Enhancements...which I suspect may be a SIMILAR cause of YOUR problem....it only reproduced SOME Bass Freqs, so overall Bass Level had to be raised to hear the OTHER Freqs. Also note that I added links for more info re Audyssey EQ....and a Room Mode Calculator that I encourage you use and do PRINT SCREEN, PASTE to MS PAINT to convert to *.jpg.....and let us know the results:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/91-au...lp-smoothing-room-response-using-truerta.html
BTW: He used TrueRTA Spectrum Analyzer Software and a compatible Sound Pressure Level (SPL) Meter with I/F to PC for analysis [Free if using 1/3 Octave Test Signals or $40 with 1/3 Octave Analysis for use with Broadband Pink Noise]:
https://www.trueaudio.com

It would help if you could post photos showing how YOUR Denon is set up after doing Auto Audyssey EQ setup. It would also help if you invested in AT LEAST one of the recommended CD, DVD or BD Discs with 1/3-Octave Pink Noise Test Tracks so you can HEAR....and preferably MEASURE the Frequency Response of your Room as you move the SW to different locations.

=============================================
BTW: Many/Most TOO SMALL Sub-Woofers (e.g anything below 10-in) is likely to suffer from "Chuffing" as fast moving air tries to squeeze in and out of the TINY Ports as well as perhaps audible NOISE as the Voice Coil rubs against the Windings. Obviously the closer you are to the Port, the easier these extraneous Noises can be heard.
 
#15 ·
holl_ands, I'm trying to heed some of your advice. The 1910 won't let me adjust tone unless I turn off the Audessy Ex. However, I'm starting to think the issue really is with my room. When I change the settings to get more bass out of the tower speakers, the sound isn't very tight. It is muffled and the bass slightly makes my ears pop. How can you tell if you room is "boomy"?
I'm holding off on buying a sub until I can figure this out.
 
#16 ·
Did you try it with both ports plugged or just the one? Doing that should raise up that low frequency like having both ports open except it should be tighter and less boomy.

Funny enough I have this exact sub and I'm thinking of upgrading to something bigger for even more "feel."
 
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