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post #1 of 26 Old 07-24-2017, 04:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Looking for a good controlled sub

Hey all,

I hate booming basses and I've got a problem with my current room so I'm looking for a sub that doesn't have much problems with these and minimizes outside vibrations.

I've seen a number of dual driver configurations that I really like. Like the B&W DB1/DB1D/DB2D and the ELAC 2070. But I see many people are loving the SVS subs, but I don't see a double driver configuration for these. Any advice?
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post #2 of 26 Old 07-24-2017, 04:16 PM
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Take a look at Rythmik, Seaton, or Funk...depending on your budget.


Imho, your problem sounds like a frequency response issue...you probably have a big peak above 40hz in the response which causes the booming bass. multiple subs properly placed can help smooth the response and net you a nice even bass response. However it requires some effort to get them dialed in. Measuring gear such as REW and a UMIK-1 mic are great tools for measuring your room.
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post #3 of 26 Old 07-24-2017, 05:12 PM
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For situations like yours, check out this thread first. Once you have an understanding of what we need come back and update your first post with the requested info. You'll end up with much better suggestions that way.

 
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post #4 of 26 Old 07-25-2017, 05:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post
For situations like yours, check out this thread first. Once you have an understanding of what we need come back and update your first post with the requested info. You'll end up with much better suggestions that way.
Although I understand why you're asking this. For me all of those questions are all not so important compared to my requirement of no boomy bass.

If the suggestion is that I need a dual 16" subwoofer for 20k made in pink and that's the only option for me to have low external vibration/no boomy bass, then I'll gladly take it. I really only have one requirement here.
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post #5 of 26 Old 07-25-2017, 06:44 AM
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You are not going to get a better answer then what I gave you with as little information you provided. Hence why nobody else has responded. There are plenty of ultra low distortion internet direct subs out there, but the problem sounds like a room response issue.

What is your current sub?
Room size and layout?
Primary source content?
Budget?
What AVR or any Room EQ?
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post #6 of 26 Old 07-25-2017, 07:15 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by christoffeldg View Post
Although I understand why you're asking this. For me all of those questions are all not so important compared to my requirement of no boomy bass.
If the source of the boom is the room then you have to fix the room. That said, you can't fix anything if you don't know what's broken. Room response measurements are the only way identify the problem.
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post #7 of 26 Old 07-25-2017, 07:30 AM
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You hate booming bass and what tight control? Rythmik all the way or a sealed SVS like the new SB16 if it's in your budget. The SB16 has redefined what a sealed sub can do.
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post #8 of 26 Old 07-25-2017, 07:36 AM
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Except for cheap subs (under $500) boomy bass is not about a bad subwoofer but about bad setup.

In most rooms, you solve boomy bass for a single seat through good bass EQ (PEQ on the sub if you are ready to do measurements with REW; automated system like Audyssey Sub EQ HT if you are not) and you solve boomy bass for multiple seats by getting two (or four) subs, positioning them correctly, AND using EQ for them.

Anything from Rythmik, SVS, HSU, PSA, Outlaw, etc, will give you non-boomy bass, if they are set up correctly.

---

The questions about room size, layout, etc, are critical for getting a unit with enough output and for deciding where to place the subs.
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post #9 of 26 Old 07-25-2017, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by christoffeldg View Post
Although I understand why you're asking this. For me all of those questions are all not so important compared to my requirement of no boomy bass.

If the suggestion is that I need a dual 16" subwoofer for 20k made in pink and that's the only option for me to have low external vibration/no boomy bass, then I'll gladly take it. I really only have one requirement here.
You only have one requirement, which is great. But the answer is not about what sub to get, but rather how to use the sub (setup) as long as you get any of the several dozen good subs on the market.
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post #10 of 26 Old 07-25-2017, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by christoffeldg View Post
Although I understand why you're asking this. For me all of those questions are all not so important compared to my requirement of no boomy bass.
If you feel the questions aren't important then perhaps that's why you have boomy bass now. In reality they are important to ensuring a good outcome. Help us help you. It shouldn't take more than 5 minutes, but if you'd rather not the replies are likely to dry up as there's little anyone will be able to do without sufficient info.

 
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post #11 of 26 Old 07-25-2017, 09:38 AM - Thread Starter
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It's not about not wanting to take the time to answer those questions but about losing focus from my initial request.

The room is very difficult to change and there's a lot of glass. So external vibrations is a main concern.

Budget is 5k, can be higher if necessary.

Front speakers are a Bowers and wilkins 802 D3.

Amp is a Lyngdorf tdai 2170, combined with a standard Denon x4300h for movies.

Old subwoofer is a sealed JBL Studio 5. But honestly I simply can't use it in my current setup. Rears are JBL 580 (old fronts).

My goal is generic use, music and movie.

Purpose of the Sub is helping the lower powered amp and add depth to the deep end.

Last edited by christoffeldg; 07-25-2017 at 09:42 AM.
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post #12 of 26 Old 07-25-2017, 10:28 AM
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Contact Nathan @ Funk Audio. I think a pair of 18.0c will give you what you are looking for. He uses the best components money can buy and offers some gorgeous finish options.
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post #13 of 26 Old 07-25-2017, 10:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Contact Nathan @ Funk Audio. I think a pair of 18.0c will give you what you are looking for. He uses the best components money can buy and offers some gorgeous finish options.
Any reason why you're not suggesting a dual driver (push/pull?) configuration on a sub? I've read these are best to minimize external vibrations?
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post #14 of 26 Old 07-25-2017, 10:42 AM
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Have you run Audyssey properly?
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...d-part-ii.html
Michael

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #15 of 26 Old 07-25-2017, 11:07 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by christoffeldg View Post
Any reason why you're not suggesting a dual driver (push/pull?) configuration on a sub? I've read these are best to minimize external vibrations?
Dual opposed drivers counteract the tendency for a sub to move when playing at high levels. They do nothing to minimize vibrations, external or internal.
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post #16 of 26 Old 07-25-2017, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by christoffeldg View Post
Any reason why you're not suggesting a dual driver (push/pull?) configuration on a sub? I've read these are best to minimize external vibrations?
Just order a sealed sub of your choice from SVS with their free returns.

At the very least you'll learn something and have more information for other AVS members to advise you further.

I'd recommend Rhythmik as well, (I've always loved my 15" sealed servo subs from Velodyne...too expensive now IMHO), but they don't have free returns.

Geoff A. J., California
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post #17 of 26 Old 07-25-2017, 01:05 PM
 
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Check out these guys too, their subs are very, very nice!!!

https://www.deepseasound.com/
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post #18 of 26 Old 08-06-2017, 04:07 PM
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I am getting in to say what I always say JL Fathom dual F112 or dual F113. JL subs blend nice with B&W Speakers. From the sound of it you want something that looks nice as well or you would not have spent B&W money for speakers. Funk Audio subs are nice and very customizable which may be helpful.
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post #19 of 26 Old 08-07-2017, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by christoffeldg View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Contact Nathan @ Funk Audio. I think a pair of 18.0c will give you what you are looking for. He uses the best components money can buy and offers some gorgeous finish options.
Any reason why you're not suggesting a dual driver (push/pull?) configuration on a sub? I've read these are best to minimize external vibrations?
One of the great things about the Funk Audio speakers, besides their looks, is the built-in DSP programs. You can pick from several DSP curves. Nathan will given create a new DSP geared towards your room characteristics.
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post #20 of 26 Old 08-08-2017, 01:08 PM
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Boomy bass is almost always the set-up, not the sub. There is no more important factor in resolving this than the physical placement of the sub. If you have one spot, "That's where the sub goes", then you get what you get .... in your case boomy bass.

The sub tells you where it should be placed, not the other way around.

Throwing money at the problem won't solve the problem, either. Only careful room measurement and experimentation and patience will solve the problem. I can tell that's not what you want to hear, but that is the truth.
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post #21 of 26 Old 08-08-2017, 03:35 PM
 
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Boomy bass is almost always the set-up, not the sub.
It can be the sub as well. Without going into engineering details, inexpensive sub drivers tend to have characteristics that lead to boomy response. Inexpensive subs combined with poor setup is pretty much a guarantee of a bad result. But that doesn't mean there's necessarily an advantage to subs going for more than $1k. More often than not there isn't, at least as far as quality is concerned. There can be if extremely high output is the goal.
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post #22 of 26 Old 08-08-2017, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post
It can be the sub as well. Without going into engineering details, inexpensive sub drivers tend to have characteristics that lead to boomy response. Inexpensive subs combined with poor setup is pretty much a guarantee of a bad result. But that doesn't mean there's necessarily an advantage to subs going for more than $1k. More often than not there isn't, at least as far as quality is concerned. There can be if extremely high output is the goal.
True, but given his cost-point ($5K budget), my assumption was that his current sub was not cheap. I could be wrong, as we don't know anything about his current sub. Trying to solve problems in a vacuum ...
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post #23 of 26 Old 08-08-2017, 08:56 PM
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Actually, he wouldn't have any booming in a vacuum.


Michael
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Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #24 of 26 Old 08-08-2017, 11:05 PM
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Actually, he wouldn't have any booming in a vacuum.


Michael
He could swap out his current sub for this (problem solved + high WAF):



The signal to noise ratio is a bit high, but compromises have to be made, sometimes.

Last edited by RayGuy; 08-08-2017 at 11:12 PM.
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post #25 of 26 Old 08-09-2017, 03:46 AM
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Most "Controlled" subs are ones in bad marriages......


The analogy can be described like this:

Philosophy is like being in a dark room and looking for a black cat.
Metaphysics is like being in a dark room and looking for a black cat that isn't there.
Theology is like being in a dark room and looking for a black cat that isn't there, and shouting "I found it!"
Science is like being in a dark room looking for a black cat while using a flashlight.


Untill you determine the problem, you can throw endless cash at it and never solve it........



Untill you can answer the question..."Why do I have boomy bass"....you will never solve it.


The only way to answer that question is measurements and information..........


You refuse the only way to answer the question.



To quote a good buddy who has now passed..."Everything is always just the way you like it."......



I will leave you a ode.......to the illogical.




EDIT:

I would just like to add, I answered all the questions, took the time to make measurements listened to all the good advice on here and I have some incredible non boomy bass, likely for 20 times less than you are going to spend and not solve a thing....

Link to Stereo Integrity SI HT 18 sub build......https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...-pedestal.html
Speakers and subs for sale...https://www.avsforum.com/forum/209-au...kers-subs.html

Last edited by unretarded; 08-09-2017 at 03:54 AM.
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post #26 of 26 Old 08-09-2017, 06:08 AM
 
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The only way to answer that question is measurements and information..........
You refuse the only way to answer the question.
To a great extent he did when he posted this:
Quote:
The room is very difficult to change and there's a lot of glass.
That can be fixed, but not if one is unwilling to do so. Then there's the matter of a basic understanding of the properties of sound. The OP would seem lacking in that regard, as revealed by this:
Quote:
So external vibrations is a main concern.
The sound waves that cause those 'external vibrations' are the same sound waves that cause ones eardrums to vibrate. One surefire way to prevent stuff in the room from vibrating is to remove the source of the vibration: turn the sub off. It wouldn't sound so good, but it will fix the problem. The more satisfying alternative is to do what it takes to fix the room.
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