Power Sound Audio's New Flagship: S7201 Quad-18" - Page 15 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #421 of 512 Old 09-01-2017, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by climber07 View Post
Whether you can see the front side of the driver or the back, there is no "port" or "slot" that is tuned to a specific frequency. Bass reflex ports boost the output around the enclosure's port tune freq. This sub has no hole from which the signal exits the enclosure in phase with the driver wave, hence sealed.
Still lost.

It has two openings that 2 drivers output into, so even though the openings are not tuned to a specific frequency doesn't it still funnel the output much like a port?

I'll probably never quite get it, but that's ok.

As an aside, that sub doesn't look all that big in your room. That room must be quite large. You have more than enough space for 2 or 3 more.

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post #422 of 512 Old 09-01-2017, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post
I still can't understand how it can be a "sealed" design with the top and bottom drivers firing into the opening. Or is there something I'm not seeing?
Don't all/most sealed subs fire into an opening, which is usually the room? The part I don't really understand is the dual driver configuration in the middle. Those two drivers appear to be firing into each other. How does that work?

Actually, I probably don't understand any of it.
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post #423 of 512 Old 09-01-2017, 05:25 PM
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Technically speaking, the openings are not ports so it is still not a ported sub. The cabinet itself is sealed and the openings are excluded from the internal volume. In this case, the openings are necessary because how else do you install the drivers that are moved into the openings?

M&K is known for using the push pull design, except one driver is on the front baffle and the other is in the opening. The S7201 is interesting because the drivers that are supposed to be on the front baffle were also move into the openings, making the 4 drivers inline. This combines push-pull and dual opposed, thus lowers distortion (due to push-pull) and provides force canceling effect (due to dual opposed).
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post #424 of 512 Old 09-01-2017, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by climber07 View Post
Whether you can see the front side of the driver or the back, there is no "port" or "slot" that is tuned to a specific frequency. Bass reflex ports boost the output around the enclosure's port tune freq. This sub has no hole from which the signal exits the enclosure in phase with the driver wave, hence sealed.
As far as I know, the slots(manifold) are "tuned" so to speak as the size of the slot will affect the frequency response, output, and peaks. They cannot be just a random size and have to be designed to a specific height, depth and width or it will have resonances(peaks in the frequency response) that will not sound good. From the little, I know about slot loaded subs like the S7201 the slot usually increase efficiency in the upper end.

I would imagine they modeled the enclosure and slots in software first and then built them and fine tuned and made changes if the models/simulations didn't match the real world results they were looking for. Maybe Tom will expand on it more and correct me if I am wrong.

For more info for anyone interested in the more technical details http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwo...nclosures.html

It is a lot more involved than a simple sealed enclosure to design and build.

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post #425 of 512 Old 09-01-2017, 07:03 PM
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The three cavities (top, bottom and center) all connect to each other "in the back", they are all working on the same air mass. Thats why its much deeper than the 18" driver would otherwise require.
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post #426 of 512 Old 09-01-2017, 07:17 PM
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What makes this sub fun is it's warping a lot of our minds, and we are subwoofer freaks. It's nice to have something that makes us scratch our heads go

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post #427 of 512 Old 09-01-2017, 08:13 PM
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SLPP = Slot Loaded Push-Pull

Google if you need detailed descriptions of what is going on.
@climber07 what size is the projection screen? The large room, projection screen, and main towers make the S7201 appear properly sized!
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post #428 of 512 Old 09-01-2017, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marc alexander View Post
slpp = slot loaded push-pull

google if you need detailed descriptions of what is going on.
@climber07 what size is the projection screen? The large room, projection screen, and main towers make the s7201 appear properly sized!
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post #429 of 512 Old 09-01-2017, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post
I still can't understand how it can be a "sealed" design with the top and bottom drivers firing into the opening. Or is there something I'm not seeing?
The attached picture shows a 3D model of the S7201 with one side missing. The inside of the cabinet makes a "3" shape.
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post #430 of 512 Old 09-02-2017, 12:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Farina View Post
The attached picture shows a 3D model of the S7201 with one side missing. The inside of the cabinet makes a "3" shape.
I think some of the confusion is with the drivers firing inside the cabinet and it looks like their output is trapped inside. If we were just comparing the output potential. Would a quad opposed with 2 drivers firing out the front and 2 drivers firing out the back have more output than the S7200 design?

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post #431 of 512 Old 09-02-2017, 06:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post
I think some of the confusion is with the drivers firing inside the cabinet and it looks like their output is trapped inside. If we were just comparing the output potential. Would a quad opposed with 2 drivers firing out the front and 2 drivers firing out the back have more output than the S7200 design?


Speakers generate sound pressure from both surfaces of their drivers. Even though it appears that some of the drivers are pointed inwards, the back side of the driver is still in contact with outside air. As this driver vibrates it generates positive pressure (compression) on one side and negative pressure (rarefaction) on the other. It is producing sound from both surfaces with the only caveat that the sounds produced will be out of phase with each other. I would assume that this design would have the same potential output as quad opposed drivers as long as the phase relationship of the drivers is handled properly.


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post #432 of 512 Old 09-02-2017, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Farina View Post
The attached picture shows a 3D model of the S7201 with one side missing. The inside of the cabinet makes a "3" shape.
That's a cool look at this sub. It needs to become the avatar for one you guys who own this sub.
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post #433 of 512 Old 09-02-2017, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by fastninja76 View Post
Hahahaha I showed my wife the comparison to the A9's in those pics. She asked if your wife left this week lol.

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Thanks for the pics Climber07!
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post #434 of 512 Old 09-02-2017, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Compression graph for the S72 pushed out a bit louder..

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Looks like a significant increase in extension when compared to the T18HT.
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post #435 of 512 Old 09-02-2017, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pradeep2 View Post
Looks like a significant increase in extension when compared to the T18HT.
That and distortion is reduced. The push-pull sealed design helps to compensate for motor non-linearities. This also helps the sub extend much deeper than would otherwise be possible with the same size cabinet.

I can tell you that 102 - 105 dB at 10 Hz is something to behold. It honestly feels and sounds like an earthquake.

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post #436 of 512 Old 09-02-2017, 02:54 PM
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These videos show the S7201's power and driver excursion. The audio gets massively clipped on the camcorder. Nothing but pure, smooth, undistorted bass is audible to the ears.



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post #437 of 512 Old 09-02-2017, 09:58 PM
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Not sure if It would have been easier to move the media room downstairs or this sub upstairs...
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post #438 of 512 Old 09-02-2017, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by tms500 View Post
Not sure if It would have been easier to move the media room downstairs or this sub upstairs...
I hear ya brother. It took us two hours to wrap, rig, and pull the beast up the stairs.















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post #439 of 512 Old 09-03-2017, 04:26 AM
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I hear ya brother. It took us two hours to wrap, rig, and pull the beast up the stairs.
I'm so impress that you and your family move that beast up the stairs . Amazing.

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post #440 of 512 Old 09-03-2017, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Compression graph for the S72 pushed out a bit louder..

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Wow, that's impressive!! Sandbagging a bit on the first graph released that showed around 112dB at 20Hz. I figured you were all in there before compression down low. But 116+ @20hz ...that's damned impressive. Basically, way above reference capable full bandwidth even calibrated pretty durn hot, as long as there's any room gain at all down low.

Looks like a close match to the HST-24 down low(the most powerful sealed sub ever tested on Data-bass), but obliterates it above that.
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post #441 of 512 Old 09-03-2017, 09:58 PM
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I got bored and drew up the S7201 in Sketchup. It's obviously not exactly identical measurement wise, but I thought it was cool. I'm able to manipulate the individual pieces, rotate, and such. Just for fun of course.



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So what placement configs are others planning to use? Mine is going into an unfinished 28×48×9ft concrete block basement, floating concrete slab. REW room simulator suggests two subs in diagonal corners would provide the best response. I can colocate two 4 cuft flatpack um18s and two 15S subs in the far corner, and the s7201 in the corner closest to the MLP, about 12 feet away. Can add delay to the far corner as needed to optimize response. Only about a quarter of the space is dedicated for home theater.
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post #443 of 512 Old 09-04-2017, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Pradeep2 View Post
So what placement configs are others planning to use? Mine is going into an unfinished 28×48×9ft concrete block basement, floating concrete slab. REW room simulator suggests two subs in diagonal corners would provide the best response. I can colocate two 4 cuft flatpack um18s and two 15S subs in the far corner, and the s7201 in the corner closest to the MLP, about 12 feet away. Can add delay to the far corner as needed to optimize response. Only about a quarter of the space is dedicated for home theater.
Sheeesh! 100% of that space will be dedicated to BASS.

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Will prob need more um18s to eventually go to stacks in each corner. They are backordered till end of October now.

What do you have your room size control set to? All the way to large?
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post #445 of 512 Old 09-04-2017, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Pradeep2 View Post
Will prob need more um18s to eventually go to stacks in each corner. They are backordered till end of October now.

What do you have your room size control set to? All the way to large?
Yes large. Speakers and sub crossed at 100 Hz.
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post #446 of 512 Old 09-04-2017, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by climber07 View Post
Yes large. Speakers and sub crossed at 100 Hz.
Climber have you tried turning the RSC to about 11:00 before running REQ and then after back to large, should give you a nice rising house curve down low out to about 60-70 Hz.
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Climber have you tried turning the RSC to about 11:00 before running REQ and then after back to large, should give you a nice rising house curve down low out to about 60-70 Hz.
Yeah but how much more can his house take? I think his insurance company has already flagged him for cancellation.
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post #448 of 512 Old 09-04-2017, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by climber07 View Post
Yes large. Speakers and sub crossed at 100 Hz.
Climber have you tried turning the RSC to about 11:00 before running REQ and then after back to large, should give you a nice rising house curve down low out to about 60-70 Hz.
I'll have to try that when I get the UMIK-1.
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post #449 of 512 Old 09-05-2017, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by climber07 View Post
I'll have to try that when I get the UMIK-1.
Please do your wife will thank you.................I want to see graphs my friend, I don't know when my 72 will be here, I think I'm next to get one on the list, at least I think so.........so I want to live through your measurements, I can't believe you're the only one posting about their 72s........
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post #450 of 512 Old 09-05-2017, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
Climber have you tried turning the RSC to about 11:00 before running REQ and then after back to large, should give you a nice rising house curve down low out to about 60-70 Hz.
I'm thinking of giving this a try on my four 15's. Currently all at large.
Wonder if it will make a difference.
ahblaza likes this.
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