How do you pick the right Subwoofer ???? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 28 Old 08-10-2017, 03:56 PM - Thread Starter
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How do you pick the right Subwoofer ????

Room size is 14 x 16 with sloped ceiling 8 foot going up to 12
I know the room is a little small for the equipment but will be moving into a larger house next year and trying to think ahead

Slowly building the surround system for the first time finding it very easy to go over budget

Using system 50-50 music/ movies , Wife loves classical I like classic rock / acoustic and action sci-fi movies

Equipment so far
Denon x3300w 105 W Times 7 at eight ohms
Klipsch rp 280f Towers
Klipsch 450c Center channel
Klipsch sw-112 reference series subwoofer (free with towers)

In another question I asked , someone suggested I upgrade my subwoofer

How in the world do you choose?

I have read those with smaller drivers have a quicker response better for fast music classical

Then I turn around and here that a 15 inch one will sound better with a classical because of the depth


I've read that buying two subs and hooking them up to right and left stereo will increase imaging

And then I read that hooking them up right in the stereo can be very confusing and hard to do

So what are the rules?

We listen to a lot of classical and acoustic music ,when I watch a movie I turn the sub to add some room shaking

What about price?

Is there a price range equals quality? Like low-quality being between $200 and $300 and then the next class being between $300 and $700 ???

Is it better to have two $400 subs than one $800 ?

I started this journey a month ago with buying two Klipsch rp280f speakers . I am 47 years old and I had never experienced stereo imaging before . It blew me away and started and addiction .

Now I'm trying to play catch-up and build a 7.2 system that will work for music and movies . I would like to stay somewhere around $800 for the subs or sub
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post #2 of 28 Old 08-10-2017, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Of sound mind View Post
finding it very easy to go over budget
Welcome to AVS; that's how it works.

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In another question I asked , someone suggested I upgrade my subwoofer
Pretty common advice, especially for HT applications.

Quote:
I have read those with smaller drivers have a quicker response better for fast music classical
Subwoofer speed is not determined solely by driver size, it's also how it's engineered. Ported vs. sealed is another concern.

As for subs and classical music, to be honest, generally speaking classical music doesn't really tax a subwoofer a lot, with one major exception: organ music. If you listen to a lot of organ music and want to really feel it, a good big sub is great. I listen to a fair amount of classical but I don't like organ music, so other than a few odd pieces (1812 Overture), the sub doesn't get involved much.

Quote:
I've read that buying two subs and hooking them up to right and left stereo will increase imaging
Unless your mains are really small and you're making the sub do a lot of work over 100Hz, not so much. The main reasons for going to a multiple-sub configuration are total output level and room issues; some rooms have nulls such that a single sub can't really get the whole room adequately.

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And then I read that hooking them up right in the stereo can be very confusing and hard to do
Depends on your AVR. Most recent AVRs have more than one sub out, so it's a snap.

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So what are the rules?
Come on, it's AVS. There's only one rule: more is better!

Quote:
Is there a price range equals quality? Like low-quality being between $200 and $300 and then the next class being between $300 and $700 ???
Generally speaking, around here, there's very little love for most subwoofers under $400. $400 is where you hit the entry-level Hsu and the RSL Speedwoofer and the Emotiva S12. The only exception to the $400 point is probably the smaller Emotivas, the S8 and the S10. The S8 is really more of a small-room solution and really only a little below 30Hz so not ideal for HT.

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Is it better to have two $400 subs than one $800 ?
Opinions vary widely on this so I won't even attempt to be definitive. I think a lot of people will agree that it depends a lot on your room. If there's a good spot in the room where you can put the sub that doesn't result in any nulls near your listening position, probably one $800 sub will be better—you'll almost certainly get better bass extension from an $800 sub than any $400 sub.

Quote:
I started this journey a month ago with buying two Klipsch rp280f speakers . I am 47 years old and I had never experienced stereo imaging before . It blew me away and started and addiction.
Yep. It's like crack, particularly in the rate that it will drain your bank account.

Quote:
I would like to stay somewhere around $800 for the subs or sub
Depends on your room and what your placement options are. Personally, I'd buy something in the $800 range and see whether you can get good coverage for your listening position, and if so, just stay with it. Hsu VTF-3.5 and Rythmik LVX12 and SVS PB-2000 are probably the most recommended at that price point here. I'd probably go with the Rythmik because I like the idea of the servo, but that's just me.

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post #3 of 28 Old 08-11-2017, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Of sound mind View Post

Now I'm trying to play catch-up and build a 7.2 system that will work for music and movies . I would like to stay somewhere around $800 for the subs or sub
I'd sell your current sub as it doesn't really play much lower than your mains set to "large" which, actually, is the way you might want to listen to music as your 280 towers can pretty much handle any frequencies you will encounter in any type of music.

For Home Theater there are many excellent $800 or less subs.

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-3mk5HP.html

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-2mk5.html

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/LV12R.html

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/LVX12.html

Geoff A. J., California
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post #4 of 28 Old 08-11-2017, 08:00 PM
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Good prior posts so I'll be brief (ok maybe not so brief). IMO, If you are on a sub $1k budget for subs for HT, get the biggest and best single sub you can afford and take the time to place it properly for the main listen position. If later you feel like you need two subs or more to smooth out the response for others who might join you in other seats in the room (and you very well might), save up and get another one (or more) later.

For $800, imo, this sub is the value leader (other than going DIY):

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-3mk5HP.html

Also, invest in a mic and free REW software or get a Dayton Omni mic. Taking measurements and getting proper speaker/sub placement is a key to getting the most out of whatever other equipment you buy. (And its fun to measure and see what's going on in your room!)

https://www.minidsp.com/applications...setup-with-rew

http://www.daytonaudio.com/index.php...nt-system.html
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post #5 of 28 Old 08-11-2017, 08:46 PM
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just try the freebie sub out and tell us what you dont like about it and then we can help you spend some coin
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post #6 of 28 Old 08-12-2017, 06:47 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Of sound mind View Post
I have read those with smaller drivers have a quicker response better for fast music classical
False.

Quote:
Then I turn around and here that a 15 inch one will sound better with a classical because of the depth
False.

Quote:
I've read that buying two subs and hooking them up to right and left stereo will increase imaging
Really false. Imaging takes place in the mids and highs. There's no such thing as imaging in the lows.

Quote:
And then I read that hooking them up right in the stereo can be very confusing and hard to do
False.

Quote:
We listen to a lot of classical and acoustic music ,when I watch a movie I turn the sub to add some room shaking
The subs should always be on. Classical and acoustic music have content below 80Hz.

Quote:
Is it better to have two $400 subs than one $800 ?
True. Smooth response across a wide area can only be realized with at least two subs. IME the number one mistake made by most buyers is to have only one sub. Number two is to have insufficient sub capacity relative to the mains. Driver size, enclosure size and power output requirements go up exponentially as frequency goes down. With the dual 8 loaded mains you have a reasonable match would be a pair of 15 inch subs.
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post #7 of 28 Old 08-12-2017, 07:35 AM
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You should see tangible gains from dual subs, especially since your Denon 3300 has the capability to apply EQ to two subs independently.

My humble main system:
Vizio M75-E1; Oppo 203 universal UHD player; Denon 4300H AVR, Dual PSA S1801's; Monitor Audio Silver RX-6 mains, RX center, and RX surrounds; one pair NHT mini Atmos speakers; Home-built HTPC (Xeon E1230, 16gb RAM, Crucial M500 480gb SSD, GeForce 980Ti, Corsair CX600, CoolerMaster mini-ITX case); Roku Premiere+; Amazon 4K Fire TV
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post #8 of 28 Old 08-12-2017, 07:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks everyone!
Wow it is obvious I have a lot to learn.
I don't have to have the perfect system , just the best that I can have with the money that I can put into it . Not having a lot of money I must make wise purchases

like I had mentioned before , I stumbled onto this , I was just buying A pair of the towers and a receiver , Before this I had small radios Or Bluetooth speaker , I purchased a set of Bose earbuds which I thought sounded fantastic ! I had no idea what I have been missing all my life.

So that experience makes me wonder what else is possible?

I live in Northern California , kind of in the middle of nowhere 2 1/2 hours away from Sacramento

Not sure if I'll have to drive to Sacramento or to San Francisco to find some store that I can actually listen before I buy , so any and all advice is appreciated .
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post #9 of 28 Old 08-12-2017, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Of sound mind View Post
Thanks everyone!
Wow it is obvious I have a lot to learn.
I don't have to have the perfect system , just the best that I can have with the money that I can put into it . Not having a lot of money I must make wise purchases

like I had mentioned before , I stumbled onto this , I was just buying A pair of the towers and a receiver , Before this I had small radios Or Bluetooth speaker , I purchased a set of Bose earbuds which I thought sounded fantastic ! I had no idea what I have been missing all my life.

So that experience makes me wonder what else is possible?

I live in Northern California , kind of in the middle of nowhere 2 1/2 hours away from Sacramento

Not sure if I'll have to drive to Sacramento or to San Francisco to find some store that I can actually listen before I buy , so any and all advice is appreciated .
Down the rabbit hole you go! 😀

Have you set up your system yet and run Audyssey? I would start there first. Set the crossover for your sub at 80hz or 100hz. Do the sub crawl. You want to get the most out of your system before you start spending more money on equipment.

My humble main system:
Vizio M75-E1; Oppo 203 universal UHD player; Denon 4300H AVR, Dual PSA S1801's; Monitor Audio Silver RX-6 mains, RX center, and RX surrounds; one pair NHT mini Atmos speakers; Home-built HTPC (Xeon E1230, 16gb RAM, Crucial M500 480gb SSD, GeForce 980Ti, Corsair CX600, CoolerMaster mini-ITX case); Roku Premiere+; Amazon 4K Fire TV
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post #10 of 28 Old 08-12-2017, 08:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Equipment so far
Denon x3300w 105 W Times 7 at eight ohms
Klipsch rp 280f Towers
Klipsch 450c Center channel
Klipsch sw-112 reference series subwoofer (free with towers

My original question in a different thread was about surround speakers

If you had about $800 to spend on surrounds and back speaker and at this equipment what would you by

The kicker is we listen to a lot of music switch my understanding I need better quality then if it's just for movies

Was thinking about buying a couple of pair of Klipsch Klipsch RP-150M


I'm not brand loyal but was concerned about the different sounds Of dif speakers for my sides and rear's if I'm listening to music

The 150m has the same speakers that are used in my center channel


And with $800 to spend on subwoofer do I just buy 1- 12 and add it to my existing sub and let my receiver EQ both of them ?

Sale my existing sub and buy two separate identical subs ?

It's so difficult for me because I do not know what I should be experiencing and what is possible

The sub that I have now doesn't sound necessarily bad to me but what I've read and what people of told me it is it's not up to par with the other equipment
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post #11 of 28 Old 08-12-2017, 08:21 AM
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Like a previous user posted, I would highly recommend Rythmik Audio subs. Call them or send them an email on your size as they are fantastic to work with and their subs sound awesome. Very clean/fast bass and not boomy/blatty
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post #12 of 28 Old 08-12-2017, 08:31 AM
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Don't worry too much about what other ppl think about your sub--after all, it's your ears and your wallet. Are there better subs? Of course there are! Doesn't mean your sub is crap.

Adding rears is the next logical upgrade for your system. The RP-150M's are a fine match for you--no need to overthink it. I recommend getting a pair of RP-150M's for rears, and a pair of RP-140SA's for front Atmos heights, rather than two pairs of RP-150M's. I think you will maximize the surround capabilities of your 3300 in this manner.

Live with your system for a while. If I were in your shoes, I would definitely add the rears and front Atmos heights first, and wait on the sub upgrade.

My humble main system:
Vizio M75-E1; Oppo 203 universal UHD player; Denon 4300H AVR, Dual PSA S1801's; Monitor Audio Silver RX-6 mains, RX center, and RX surrounds; one pair NHT mini Atmos speakers; Home-built HTPC (Xeon E1230, 16gb RAM, Crucial M500 480gb SSD, GeForce 980Ti, Corsair CX600, CoolerMaster mini-ITX case); Roku Premiere+; Amazon 4K Fire TV
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post #13 of 28 Old 08-12-2017, 08:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes I've set everything up , ran Audyssey and did sub crawl ( when no one was home) lol

It sounds amazing but it is killing me not having the full 7.2

You have to realize the budget that I started out with for a full 5.1 system , I ended up spending that on two towers and receiver

I was just going to get the Andrew Jones pioneer set, but then I started reading and decided to get Klipsch reference series , And then I bought the reference premier series Towers and a better receiver

Poof my savings was going .

Saving up for another month to complete the system and then I will try to stop the madness
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post #14 of 28 Old 08-12-2017, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Of sound mind View Post
Yes I've set everything up , ran Audyssey and did sub crawl ( when no one was home) lol

It sounds amazing but it is killing me not having the full 7.2

You have to realize the budget that I started out with for a full 5.1 system , I ended up spending that on two towers and receiver

I was just going to get the Andrew Jones pioneer set, but then I started reading and decided to get Klipsch reference series , And then I bought the reference premier series Towers and a better receiver

Poof my savings was going .

Saving up for another month to complete the system and then I will try to stop the madness
I definitely think you should go with the 5.1.2/5.2.2 vs the 7.2. I have never found surround back speakers to add much to the experience. The consensus is that Atmos heights bring much more to the table than surround backs.

What frequency is your sub crossover set at?
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Vizio M75-E1; Oppo 203 universal UHD player; Denon 4300H AVR, Dual PSA S1801's; Monitor Audio Silver RX-6 mains, RX center, and RX surrounds; one pair NHT mini Atmos speakers; Home-built HTPC (Xeon E1230, 16gb RAM, Crucial M500 480gb SSD, GeForce 980Ti, Corsair CX600, CoolerMaster mini-ITX case); Roku Premiere+; Amazon 4K Fire TV
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post #15 of 28 Old 08-12-2017, 09:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Audyssey set my speakers two large cross over at 40

After reading I went in and sat speakers on small and crossover at 80 , sounds better

Based management says crossover is 80–120 i'm not sure what the 120 stands for
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post #16 of 28 Old 08-12-2017, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Of sound mind View Post
Audyssey set my speakers two large cross over at 40

After reading I went in and sat speakers on small and crossover at 80 , sounds better

Based management says crossover is 80–120 i'm not sure what the 120 stands for
Try setting the crossover at 100 or even 120, and see how you like it. Nothing wrong with a bit of experimentation!
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My humble main system:
Vizio M75-E1; Oppo 203 universal UHD player; Denon 4300H AVR, Dual PSA S1801's; Monitor Audio Silver RX-6 mains, RX center, and RX surrounds; one pair NHT mini Atmos speakers; Home-built HTPC (Xeon E1230, 16gb RAM, Crucial M500 480gb SSD, GeForce 980Ti, Corsair CX600, CoolerMaster mini-ITX case); Roku Premiere+; Amazon 4K Fire TV
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post #17 of 28 Old 08-12-2017, 09:59 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Of sound mind View Post
The kicker is we listen to a lot of music switch my understanding I need better quality then if it's just for movies
I never listen to music in 5.1, always 2.1, mainly because I only listen to classic rock/R&B/blues, all of which was originally mixed as stereo, so it just doesn't sound right any other way.
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Audyssey set my speakers two large cross over at 40
Audyssey doesn't know what you have for speakers, only how low they're capable of going. It can't tell if your mains have higher output capability at 40Hz than your subs. If the system is well matched they shouldn't. With rare exception the crossover should be set between 60 and 80Hz.
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post #18 of 28 Old 08-12-2017, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Of sound mind View Post
Room size is 14 x 16 with sloped ceiling 8 foot going up to 12
Sorry, I'm a little late to the party but I figure I will give my 2 cents since my room is the same size as your and I love Classical Music. It seems like I have spent a life time find a Classical music sub. I will most likely be repeating what others have said but I will add my Classical music spin.

Quote:
Using system 50-50 music/ movies , Wife loves classical I like classic rock / acoustic and action sci-fi movies

Equipment so far
Denon x3300w 105 W Times 7 at eight ohms
Klipsch rp 280f Towers
Klipsch 450c Center channel
Klipsch sw-112 reference series subwoofer (free with towers)
Good start for your system Klipsch will really shine for your Classic rock stuff and Movies. I'm not a huge fan of Klipsch for Classical or Acoustic music.

Quote:
In another question I asked , someone suggested I upgrade my subwoofer
As far as I know Klipsch super cheap subs and most expensive are the only ones that people recommend here. Everything else is not the best price per performance.

Quote:
I have read those with smaller drivers have a quicker response better for fast music classical
Like others have said, not true anymore for most brands but I will say that classical music demands a quick sub. I'm pickier than most since I play this music in a live setting. Most people like it when a double bass sounds like a bass guitar or a pianos low notes sounds like it has an extra thickest to it. I don't, so I have found that smaller subs and or larger SERVO subs work best.

Quote:
Then I turn around and here that a 15 inch one will sound better with a classical because of the depth
You do want deep bass for classical music even non-organ stuff but size is not a factor. For budget subs, flat to 32-27hz is a must but flat to 16hz is ideal at 90db.

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I've read that buying two subs and hooking them up to right and left stereo will increase imaging
over 95% of music is mastered with the bass in mono, so stereo or dual mono will sound the same. They master it this way because of phase issues. Some older LP's from the 70's had real stereo bass but that was just a gimmick and you only could tell because of your level readouts on your equipment.

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We listen to a lot of classical and acoustic music ,when I watch a movie I turn the sub to add some room shaking
With a properly setup system, the sub will stay on all the time.

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Is it better to have two $400 subs than one $800 ?
I'm general yes but it's sometimes more about the subs than the amount of them.

Quote:
Now I'm trying to play catch-up and build a 7.2 system that will work for music and movies . I would like to stay somewhere around $800 for the subs or sub
7.1 is not needed in your room size and take the time and look at your movie collection. Now tell me how many movies you have that are 6.1 or 7.1... Yes I was surprised too as to how low the number was.


For me the only thing you should be looking at is Rythmik for Classical music but HSU is a good cheaper option. HSU are the only ported subs that "I" have heard that work well with Classical music. Otherwise I have stuck with sealed and/or SERVO subs but it's not needed.
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post #19 of 28 Old 08-12-2017, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Of sound mind View Post
Audyssey set my speakers two large cross over at 40

After reading I went in and sat speakers on small and crossover at 80 , sounds better

Based management says crossover is 80–120 i'm not sure what the 120 stands for
PORTED SUBWOOFERS $600 AND BELOW, DELIVERED

150watts 28hz $199 EMOTIVA BASX S8
200watts 27hz $299 EMOTIVA BASX S10
300watts 25hz $399 EMOTIVA BASX S12
250watts 22hz $423 HSU VTF 1 MK3
300watts 19hz $499 SVS PB1000
300watts 19hz $549 RHYTHMIK LV12R
350watts 18hz $604 HSU VTF2 MK5


SEALED SUBWOOFERS $600 AND BELOW, DELIVERED

300watts 24hz $499 SVS SB1000
300watts 18hz $539 RHYTHMIK L12
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post #20 of 28 Old 08-12-2017, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Of sound mind View Post
Room size is 14 x 16 with sloped ceiling 8 foot going up to 12
....

How in the world do you choose?
www.data-bass.com
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post #21 of 28 Old 08-12-2017, 01:10 PM - Thread Starter
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I remember saying to my wife I'm just going to buy a set of Andrew Jones pioneer speakers and a $400 receiver . I'm not exactly sure what happened
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post #22 of 28 Old 08-12-2017, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Of sound mind View Post
I remember saying to my wife I'm just going to buy a set of Andrew Jones pioneer speakers and a $400 receiver . I'm not exactly sure what happened
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post #23 of 28 Old 08-15-2017, 12:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks everyone!
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post #24 of 28 Old 08-15-2017, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by torii View Post
just try the freebie sub out and tell us what you dont like about it and then we can help you spend some coin
I like this approach !


Every ones tastes are different......



I was scorned by friends and family when I wanted to get 4, 12 inch subs.......then really scorned for wanting to get a 18 inch sub and then really really when I wanted to do a second 18 inch sub.



But at every single upgrade everyone thought it sounded better and was worth it........


Where you will stop and be happy at no one but you knows...........the biggest thing I will say is have fun and enjoy it and get what makes you happy !
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Link to Stereo Integrity SI HT 18 sub build......https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...-pedestal.html
Speakers and subs for sale...https://www.avsforum.com/forum/209-au...kers-subs.html
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post #25 of 28 Old 08-18-2017, 10:50 AM
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did you pull the trigger and buy one yet?
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post #26 of 28 Old 08-19-2017, 07:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by KYGuy7890 View Post
did you pull the trigger and buy one yet?
Not yet, I have surroundsound speakers coming in this week , Setting them up first so I can get to 7.1

Next month will come the subs , seriously looking at the SVS models

It helps me a great deal if I can order them from Amazon

After I finish with my main speakers my sub decision will be 12 inch or 15 inch

Got the chance to listen to another system that had Two 15 inch subs and could literally feel the wind move during explosions ! But that system was about $12,000 more than my budget

Is that common with 12 inch subs or do you need enough area to pressurize the room ?

That might be a stupid question but this is the first time I've done this
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post #27 of 28 Old 08-19-2017, 03:39 PM
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Generally a bigger sub is better, especially for movies !

2 subs are better than one.......
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Link to Stereo Integrity SI HT 18 sub build......https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...-pedestal.html
Speakers and subs for sale...https://www.avsforum.com/forum/209-au...kers-subs.html
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post #28 of 28 Old 08-19-2017, 03:51 PM
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Two VBSS will fit your budget https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...gn-thread.html
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Display 2013 Samsung 75" UN75F6300 TV Media Xbox One X, Dune Solo, QNAP TS-453A NAS
Pre/Amp Marantz 7702mk2 Processor + DIY 11ch Icepower 50ASX2BTL Monoblock Amp Amp Build Link
7.2.4 Speakers DIYSG 1099s (LCR), Volt 10LX (SL, SR), Volt 8LX (BL, BR), Volt 10LX (TF, TR) Volt Build Link
Subs Dual 19Hz DIY Ported UXL-18s + FP14k Amp + MiniDSP 2x4 Balanced Tactile Crowsons + iNuke 6000DSP
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