Official Seaton Sound Subwoofer Thread - Page 13 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #361 of 541 Old 07-08-2019, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indebtbassfreak View Post
No offence Darth,,,, but,, one man show,,,,,small company Bla Bla Bla i've heard that a hundred times and not just on this thread. Other small companies doing very well so i dont buy that for a second There is no excuse taking thousands from people and a year later, Zero results for that customer, and on top of that brutal communication "if any" for that time period. A one off situation , we could understand "maybe" but a consistent pattern is not acceptable.

This borders on "u fill in the blanks" so unless there is something serious going on, and that does not seem to be the case, these poor business practices needs to be called out , not defended imo.
Spot on!

IMO man is a thief with no regard for his customers. Great way to ruin a persons hobby.

Seriously you guys need to stop defending him and start being advocates for yourselves and fight for refunds, replacement for damaged goods etc..

A wise man once told me at times you just need to bite the bullet and make things right out of your own pocket even if not your fault. Theory that at that point no one can talk bad about you or your company.

Keep in mind Seaton doesn't even come on here to defend himself on any of these issues. Well he does blame it on a long time employee getting sick and leaving. Really??
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Last edited by flat4; 07-08-2019 at 07:13 PM.
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post #362 of 541 Old 07-08-2019, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by jamiebosco View Post
Oh I 100% agree there mate, I have been - and will continue to be - patient, as I know Seaton Sound is a (relatively) small company and essentially a 1 man show, I would just like to be kept in the loop
All I can say, is the best of luck to have your problem resolve!!!

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Originally Posted by indebtbassfreak View Post
No offence Darth,,,, but,, one man show,,,,,small company Bla Bla Bla i've heard that a hundred times and not just on this thread. Other small companies doing very well so i dont buy that for a second There is no excuse taking thousands from people and a year later, Zero results for that customer, and on top of that brutal communication "if any" for that time period. A one off situation , we could understand "maybe" but a consistent pattern is not acceptable.

This borders on "u fill in the blanks" so unless there is something serious going on, and that does not seem to be the case, these poor business practices needs to be called out , not defended imo.
None taken, since you are 100% right
Was just trying to say on my first post (before the one, you quote me), that other companies that have started very small. Became big one like SVS/PSA and some others, due to good/excellent Customer Service by looking after their previous customer.
Having funds problem is one thing, Ignoring them is a big "No No", if you want to grow bigger
I would borrow money, before having my reputation destroyed. Just like I bought my house on a hand shake.

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Originally Posted by flat4 View Post
So empty promises of refunds, replacement items being sent next week etc for months on end is do to him being a small one man business? LOL
Also agree with your statement.
See above reply to the quote above yours


Darth
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post #363 of 541 Old 07-08-2019, 07:51 PM
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The extreme delay in sending out refunds is worrisome, one man show or not. It suggests a serious lack of working capital. I fear that he may be in a situation where current sales are funding past debts.
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post #364 of 541 Old 07-08-2019, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by sk373 View Post
The extreme delay in sending out refunds is worrisome, one man show or not. It suggests a serious lack of working capital. I fear that he may be in a situation where current sales are funding past debts.

And declaring Bankcropsy, leaving the previous customer in the dust
Mark have great knowledge of Audio, perhaps in his situation. Asking a loan, to undo all this bad publicity to rebuilt his reputation. Would be one way to make everyone happy.


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post #365 of 541 Old 07-08-2019, 09:08 PM
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Over the years, Mark has also removed negative posts on his own website. (This is not anything new)
Years ago, when he was working out of his garage, when he was not "Home" he would have phone calls forwarded to his cellphone and would take ALL the calls.

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post #366 of 541 Old 07-08-2019, 10:21 PM
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Hey guys, thanks for all the support (and ass kickings when needed lol) for me and the others having issues at the moment


In my case, when people ask why am I being so patient or seemingly defending Mark, it's purely because in my younger years things like this would really get me worked me up, I would lose sleep over it from worry and become extremely negative and anxious- often with absolutely NO positive outcome for all my stress and heartache. It's just not worth it for me. Being 10,000 miles away means no matter how worked up, anxious or angry I get on here,via email or on the phone - in the end - the ball is still in Mark's court as I'm way past the point of asking PayPal to step in for me. In this way, I'm glad I didn't waste the last 16 months stewing on this as I very likely would STILL be in the exact same position I am now.




Mark has assured he will get me a replacement cab on multiple occasions and I'm hoping he will still be able to sell me some of the newer replacement amps, as these are getting a bit "long in the tooth" (and one has recently become non-functional) , and I am choosing to take him at his word.
I really really (!) LOVE the subs, (and I've heard a setup with his Cat12 speakers which were also mind-blowingly good), when he can be reached his customer service is good and the advice and support he has given on here and at GTGs throughout his many years at AVS has always been excellent, so I hope this can all be set right.


Now......with all that said, if I lived within driving distance of Chicago I would have packed up my SubMersive 12 months ago and taken to his shop and demanded either a replacement or refund there and then lol


Cheers
Jamie
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post #367 of 541 Old 07-09-2019, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flat4 View Post
So empty promises of refunds, replacement items being sent next week etc for months on end is do to him being a small one man business? LOL
Others might have insinuated, but the only thing I've ever blamed on being a small operation was taking a day or 3 to respond when I have had to jump in when we've been short staffed or family matters pulled me away from the office.

We are continuing to get ordered products out the door, and slowly getting everyone taken care of. E-mail is the best way to reach us. This weekend I was watching e-mail while I largely unplugged for 2 days (Friday evening to Sunday evening) with family visiting for the holiday and my birthday and few outings planned with my 16 month old son and visiting family. Most everyone waiting for answers or product should have an e-mail. None of the situations pending can be resolved in the time it takes me to type a post or send an e-mail, and responding to other emails and posts are important to keeping things moving to get everyone taken care of.
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post #368 of 541 Old 07-09-2019, 10:30 AM
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Thanks for the update Mark. Happy Birthday as well.

I know you will take care of everyone, and I'm sure others will be happy to read your post as well.

Hopefully everyone had received an E-mail that had been having trouble prior.
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post #369 of 541 Old 07-14-2019, 06:42 PM
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My repaired Submersive HP amp arrived back from SpeakerPower on Friday. Less than a month for the round trip and a very reasonable $180 USD out of warranty repair. Return UPS "standard" shipping was a little steep at $120 but the price did include official SpeakerPower packaging for the amp module.
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post #370 of 541 Old 07-14-2019, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Vincehoffman View Post
My repaired Submersive HP amp arrived back from SpeakerPower on Friday. Less than a month for the round trip and a very reasonable $180 USD out of warranty repair. Return UPS "standard" shipping was a little steep at $120 but the price did include official SpeakerPower packaging for the amp module.
That's a great result mate!
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post #371 of 541 Old 07-14-2019, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by giomania View Post
Thanks for the clarification. Mark did mention it was a 7/8” washer, but since I didn’t actually buy a washer, I went with the measurements I took from the items I had on hand. I can edit the video.


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Hi Giomania,

Well my broken Submersive HP amp is back from SpeakerPower after being repaired. And Rigo provided some replacement gasket material so I should be set. Are you aware of the recommended torque values for reinstalling the wood screws which secure the plate amp? I'm a little surprised to discover that Mark did not go with T-nuts and machine screws for this task.

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post #372 of 541 Old 07-15-2019, 01:00 PM
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Hi Giomania,

Well my broken Submersive HP amp is back from SpeakerPower after being repaired. And Rigo provided some replacement gasket material so I should be set. Are you aware of the recommended torque values for reinstalling the wood screws which secure the plate amp? I'm a little surprised to discover that Mark did not go with T-nuts and machine screws for this task.


No I am not, but having watched Mark do this, he uses an electric screwdriver/tool and goes very slowly, so that indicates to me that the screwdriver bit fits the screws well and won’t strip easily.

There are not only different sizes of Phillips bits, but slightly different designs as well, which I first noticed years ago with a Snap-On bit kit that I purchased.

When doing jobs, I always check to find the best fitting bit in my collection for the particular Phillips screws I’m using, because some rock inside the screw and some don’t.

Mark said that nowadays the cabinet maker pre-drills the holes using their CNC machine, so that provides more accuracy with screw installation.

Mark


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post #373 of 541 Old 07-17-2019, 02:26 PM
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IMO man is a thief with no regard for his customers. Great way to ruin a persons hobby.
Repeatedly calling someone a "thief" is a great way to ruin someone's reputation. I know Mark, he's been to my house, I own 3 of his subs, and he is no "Thief."

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Seriously you guys need to stop defending him and start being advocates for yourselves and fight for refunds, replacement for damaged goods etc..
Mark Seaton has given way more to this forum than you have. Mark offers FREE technical and setup advice for his subwoofers... and for many other subs as well. His technical expertise is about as good as it gets anywhere. Exactly what do you offer the forum that allows you to label someone a "thief"?

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A wise man once told me at times you just need to bite the bullet and make things right out of your own pocket even if not your fault. Theory that at that point no one can talk bad about you or your company.
Yes, he was a wise man. Here's some more advice from an old man:
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt."

Do you own any Seaton Sound products? Were you ever on the receiving end of a bad deal from Seaton Sound? If not, why do feel the need to come here and bad-mouth Mark? Do you see yourself as some kind of savior for all of us?

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Keep in mind Seaton doesn't even come on here to defend himself on any of these issues. Well he does blame it on a long time employee getting sick and leaving. Really??
People who deal with Mark, know up front that he is a *small* business. If they don't understand all the limitations in this, that's on them. My advice to anyone dealing with small businesses is to minimize their risks:
  • Don't pay money upfront to be put on waiting lists.
  • Don't pay money until you have a shipping/tracking number.
  • Ask extensive questions about the return policy and service/replacement parts.
I had a situation were one of my Submersive amps took a dump. I called Mark and he sent me a replacement amp the same day. When I received it, I put the defective amp in the same shipping box and sent it back to him. Times have changed since then, and he's no longer able to be so responsive. Therefore, get all your facts in order before you make any sort of payments.

flat4, you can now go back to your regularly scheduled programming. No need for you to stay here. You can let us "Seatonites" work through our difficulties without your help. Fact is... you weren't really helping anything anyway.

Goodbye.

Craig


PS. He also makes the best subwoofers I've ever heard!

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"Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."

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post #374 of 541 Old 07-17-2019, 02:43 PM
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I just happened to notice this thread in side bar. I've dealt with Mark for a couple years. I just got my 4th and 5th Sub from him less than a two weeks ago as matter of fact. Zero issues, paid and got my subs.


When I got my first subs from him a couple years ago, they were the F18's when they first came out. And the wait was a bit longer than I had hoped, but it wasn't excessive. Mark is a stand up guy and his products are worth any wait imo.


If you remotely think you are being ripped off or something crazy, dismiss that notion. Mark and his products are exceptional.
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post #375 of 541 Old 07-17-2019, 03:35 PM
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Gotta stand up for Mark, as well. When one of my F-18s was destroyed by Harvey 2 years ago (Gawd, I can’t believe it’s already been that long), he was able to issue a replacement no problem when we got a new place, and finances re-arranged. The replacement sub was delivered in less than a week. It was a much more important event than I had even anticipated. Finally getting my 2 channel system back together gave me a sense of closure after having lost everything. Anyway, so bitch about the issues, but don’t question his integrity. He’s a good guy, just not very organized sometimes . It happens.

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post #376 of 541 Old 07-17-2019, 05:19 PM
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I have purchased two Seaton Submersive subwoofers in the last 12 months. Mark's support to me has been excellent. His products are one of the brands that I recommend to my clients because the performance of these products warrants their cost. I do not recommend products when I have have client feedback that indicates deceptive practices or poor consumer support. Not considering a SubMersive HP+ if you want exceptionally accurate bass is denying yourself a product that surpasses others on the market. I find Seaton SubMersive to meet my preferences better than anything else I have encountered.

My experience is from calibrating thousands of home theaters with subwoofers from Aerial Acoustics, Angstrom Loudspeakers, Atlantic Technology, Axiom, B&W, Bose, Boston Acoustics, Cabasse, Crestron, Crystal Audio, Danley, Dayton, Deep Sea Sound, Definitive Technology, Elemental Designs, Energy, EPIK, Episode, era, Focal, Funk Audio, Gallo Acoustics, Genelec, Hsu, Inifinity, James, Jamo, JBL, JL Audio, JTR, Klipsch, Krell, Legacy Audio, M&K, Martin Logan, McIntosh, Mirage, MJ Acoustics, Monitor Audio, MTX, Neumann, Onix, Onkyo, Paradigm, Parts Express, PSB, Polk, Power Sound Audio, REL, Revel, Rythmik, Salk, Seaton Sound, Snell, Sony, Sunfire, SVS, Talon Audio Technologies, Tekton, Triad, Velodyne, Von Schweikert and Yamaha along with some others I cannot remember,. My experience also includes large 18" infinite baffle installations and many other DIY subwoofers.
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post #377 of 541 Old 07-17-2019, 07:41 PM
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I was a Seaton owner in a past life (about 11 years ago) when I bough the original Submersive and upgraded to 2 x Submersive HP's after that. Dealign with Mark was not always easy, as he was a one man show back then, but he always took the time to walk me through things. I was probably one of the most annoying people he had to deal with because of all my stupid questions, but he never once made me feel like his time was more valuable to mine.

If I had the money to get more SubM's right now, I would NOT hesitate to call him up and order his products again!
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post #378 of 541 Old 07-17-2019, 08:01 PM
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An inherent flaw with the Internet is that the voice of those who have issues often are louder than the satisfied customers. Over the years I have purchased cats, a submersive, and a JS-12 from Mark and imagine I am fairly representative of Mark’s customers, who don’t frequently engage on the forums. That doesn’t make the complaints any less valid, it just means there’s another side to the story.

Not knowing Mark personally, but having been a customer for over 10 years, I would say his biggest issue is that he is a perfectionist. His own forum talks about numerous products over the years that he designed that he ultimately decided were not good enough to go out the door. Almost all of the complaints I see can be categorized as issues with delivery time, component suppliers or refunds. I don’t remember seeing anyone complain that Mark’s products did not perform as promised. The delivery times yes, it can often slip a week or two past Mark’s estimate, but again, I chalk that up to Mark’s repeated testing before items go out the door and to Seaton Sound being a small business. With the components suppliers, it does seem like that takes him a little bit longer, but that is essentially him acting as a middleman to get an amp replacement.

There are quite a few recent issues being aired on this forum, but in fairness if this were reviews on Amazon, he would have a hell of a lot of five star reviews to go along with the one or two star. Ultimately we all have a decision to make with our hard-earned money, and I know that Mark will continue to earn my business. Even if it takes a few extra days to get to me, I have had years of enjoyment out of everything i have purchased from him.

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post #379 of 541 Old 07-18-2019, 02:17 AM
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I personally had a very good experience with Mark when I had purchased the submersives. The complaints that we are seeing here are legit though as some of these guys have just been waiting a response for months and unresolved issues for over a year. Hope mark can sort them out.


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post #380 of 541 Old 07-18-2019, 02:54 AM
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My take is I wouldn't buy from the one man shows if I lived out of the country. Seems the worst experiences from the two brands I'm thinking of have been for people living outside the US.

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post #381 of 541 Old 07-18-2019, 03:50 AM
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Official Seaton Sound Subwoofer Thread

For anyone on the fence, I’ve owned twelve Seaton Sound subwoofers across three different models and two build threads since 2012—Submersive F2 (2 purchased in 2012), Submersive HP+(2 purchased in 2013), and F18 (8 purchased in 2016) and of all twelve, only one—an HP+ ever had an issue, which was a bad amp module. Like Craig’s experience posted above, I had a tracking number for a replacement amp the same day I called...and Mark walked me through the replacement process in real-time on the phone.

I also have plans to add four more custom depth F18 subs in the near future. With ~$22k spent with Seaton Sound so far, with 12 hits and no misses since 2012, I see no reason to go elsewhere for subs 13-16.

Also, Mark was very understanding with my financial limitations for the eight subs. I sent a certain amount to get the building started.....Mark finished all eight subs and they were ready to ship, but due to a car accident and some other things, I still didn’t have the remainder of the disposable $$$ to send Mark...he warehoused the subs until I was ready. For those who own small business, warehousing large “spoken for” products is risky because it ultimately decreases readiness by a certain %....but Mark did it for me. He could have just sold them and started the build over when i sent all of the money, but he didn’t—he wanted them ready to ship the moment I had the money.

No business is perfect because no human is perfect. If you look on the Lamborghini or Ferrari forums, you’ll see complaints there too...thing sometimes fall through the cracks because business have so many moving parts....but guys, Mark is great, his products are great, and his treatment of customers is great.


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post #382 of 541 Old 07-18-2019, 04:09 AM
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post #383 of 541 Old 07-18-2019, 04:25 AM
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on-line vendors, (be it audio, car parts or window shades) establish themselves with trust...in the product itself and in the customer service provided should a problem arise. the successful companies are exceptional at both. I've been reading this forum for years, and Mark Seaton has always been on my short list of an owner whose products I would like to own and do business with. his input and advice have been invaluable to me in my enjoyment of this hobby and I own none of his products. that said, this unfolding storyline reminds me of the demise of Mark S. and av123. unhappy customers in one corner and staunch supporters in the other.

I truly don't believe the outcome will be the same...but a little varnish has been chipped from the finish. here's to hoping it can be fully repaired.

trust is everything

at the zenith of his nadir...
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post #384 of 541 Old 07-18-2019, 05:26 AM
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Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post
.

I also have plans to add four more custom depth F18 subs in the near future.

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Only 4 more BB- well if stick to opera or small chamber you should be ok on headroom 😁
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15400 Watts of Atmos Seaton Power -Quad SubMersived - JVC N7
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post #385 of 541 Old 07-18-2019, 05:52 AM
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Originally Posted by lefthandluke View Post
... this unfolding storyline reminds me of the demise of Mark S. and av123. unhappy customers in one corner and staunch supporters in the other.

I truly don't believe the outcome will be the same...but a little varnish has been chipped from the finish. here's to hoping it can be fully repaired.

trust is everything
To be clear Mark S. is convicted fraudster Mark Schifter and not connected to Mark Seaton.

Buying from big AV companies is not without its problems. Many deserve a lot more criticism than they receive for the products they are selling. There are relatively few companies I would purchase products from based on my experience in the field with their software bugs and product durability. The vast majority of people are just blissfully ignorant as long as it powers on and has basic functionality.
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post #386 of 541 Old 07-18-2019, 06:57 AM
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Having friend over for a movie today who is a retired AV production professor. He was blown away by my theater last time. Accuracy of my setup including Seaton SubMersives left him smiling and wanting more.


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post #387 of 541 Old 07-18-2019, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by lefthandluke View Post
on-line vendors, (be it audio, car parts or window shades) establish themselves with trust...in the product itself and in the customer service provided should a problem arise. the successful companies are exceptional at both. I've been reading this forum for years, and Mark Seaton has always been on my short list of an owner whose products I would like to own and do business with. his input and advice have been invaluable to me in my enjoyment of this hobby and I own none of his products. that said, this unfolding storyline reminds me of the demise of Mark S. and av123. unhappy customers in one corner and staunch supporters in the other.

I truly don't believe the outcome will be the same...but a little varnish has been chipped from the finish. here's to hoping it can be fully repaired.

trust is everything
I think you have captured the situation very well. No one is arguing that Seaton Subs aren't terrific. I'm sure they are, and will continue to be. To top it off, Mark is a VERY valuable contributor to this forum.

I think what some people were trying to capture is the poor "after purchase" CS with at least three different individuals (two waiting for refunds for more than 6 months, and one awaiting replacement sub/parts for over 6 months as well). To many (including me) this is simply not acceptable. I hope Mark can rectify these issues very soon (if he hasn't already) so the discussions on this thread are more about his awesome subs and less about poor CS.
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post #388 of 541 Old 07-18-2019, 12:37 PM
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I think you have captured the situation very well. No one is arguing that Seaton Subs aren't terrific. I'm sure they are, and will continue to be. To top it off, Mark is a VERY valuable contributor to this forum.

I think what some people were trying to capture is the poor "after purchase" CS with at least three different individuals (two waiting for refunds for more than 6 months, and one awaiting replacement sub/parts for over 6 months as well). To many (including me) this is simply not acceptable. I hope Mark can rectify these issues very soon (if he hasn't already) so the discussions on this thread are more about his awesome subs and less about poor CS.
Mark send me a email last week and told me he wil refund me this month.
So i hope i can move on soon.
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post #389 of 541 Old 07-18-2019, 12:49 PM
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Oh ok, damn mate, that's a much much worse situation than mine, at least I've had bass till now!
I feel even more horrible after reading that


Have you moved on and purchased other subs, or do you need to get the $$ back first before purchasing something else?


Again, I feel so sorry for you man, hopefully you have just "slipped through the cracks" and Mark will see your comment and refund soon


Fingers crossed for you
J
Thanks Jamie

Yes i first need to get the money back.
I hope i get it back this month.
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post #390 of 541 Old 07-18-2019, 01:16 PM
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Thanks Jamie

Yes i first need to get the money back.
I hope i get it back this month.
That's good news mate! Fingers crossed for you!

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
TV: Panasonic P65ST60 AVR: Denon 4311ci Speakers: PSA MTM-210C (Centre), PSA MTM-210 (Left & Right), PSA MT-110 (Surrounds) Subwoofers: Dual Seaton SubMersives
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