Official Seaton Sound Subwoofer Thread - Page 15 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #421 of 541 Old 07-19-2019, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
Don’t blame people who are calling this issue out. You make it sound like we have an agenda to ruin him. It’s on him not us. I said above I had a good experience with him personally but in no universe can this kind of service be acceptable. May be you should go see and him in person and help him out instead of defending something that is indefensible.


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post #422 of 541 Old 07-19-2019, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Jamie,

I have very deliberately stayed out of this discussion, partly due to my respect for Mark the audio guru, as opposed to Mark the businessman. But FWIW, I honestly do feel that you are being a little too ambivalent in your posting, and are actually working against your own best interests.

Your avatar is indication enough of your admiration for Mark. But, the more that you say how much you love your now single Submersive, and that you are willing to be patient, the more you undermine your own ability to resolve this situation expeditiously. I understand very well that you don't want to offend Mark, or appear to be a chronic complainer. But, I agree with others that the situation of waiting 16 months for a resolution to your problem goes well beyond what is reasonable. In fact, it is indefensible. Your situation should absolutely be a priority for Mark, and you should be a polite, but nevertheless squeaky wheel.

In my opinion, allowing business practices like this one to continue will be of no long-term benefit either to Mark or to other buyers who come after you. Mark needs to have business practices that represent the same high standards that his subwoofers exhibit, and as a very visible representative of Seaton Sound owners (via your avatar) you need to contribute to the creation of better business practices in a positive way.

In short, it is my opinion as your AVS friend, and Mark's if he will allow it, that you should stop being patient, and start being firm. I rarely complain when I need someone's help in fixing a problem--especially a service issue. Instead I politely but distinctly ask for help in resolving the problem. And, it is very clear to both of us, when I do that, that I am expecting a resolution of the problem.

I think that you need to start being a little clearer and more direct, not only for your personal benefit, but for the benefit of other Seaton owners to come. Otherwise, you won't be the last one to experience this kind of selectively sporadic customer service.

Regards,
Mike
I wanted to say something similar.

I don't know about you guys, but if I were in his situation I wouldn't be asking for the second sub, I'd be asking for him to pay for the return shipping of the SubMersive that I do have, get the money back for both subs and shop elsewhere. Even if he told me today that he's going to ship the sub this week. Such a company does not deserve my money.

@jamiebosco
Not sure how long the warranty is on his subs, but what if, down the line, you have an issue with one of his subs and are within the warranty period? Would you want to potentially deal with terrible (or lack of) communication again?
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post #423 of 541 Old 07-19-2019, 01:40 PM
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Hi,

I've been trying to get a hold of Mark for 8 days to see about ordering a replacement amp for my Submersive HP since the amp quit working. I was going to get the 4000 watt amp and then buy a slave sub after that. Has anybody had Mark call them recently? Is his health ok or is he just super busy?

Thanks for any help,
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post #424 of 541 Old 07-19-2019, 02:24 PM
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Hey Jamie, Is there no one down under that does this sort of thing? I mean, Australia is a continent. There has to be a comparable sub builder somewhere that could produce something a little more ‘local’, so shipping wouldn’t be such an issue. Then you could just get a refund, and do no harm no foul with Mark, and simply go your separate ways. I dunno, this just sound like a toxic transaction that both you and Mark should simply move on from.

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post #425 of 541 Old 07-19-2019, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by djreef View Post
Hey Jamie, Is there no one down under that does this sort of thing? I mean, Australia is a continent. There has to be a comparable sub builder somewhere that could produce something a little more ‘local’, so shipping wouldn’t be such an issue. Then you could just get a refund, and do no harm no foul with Mark, and simply go your separate ways. I dunno, this just sound like a toxic transaction that both you and Mark should simply move on from.

DJ
No not really mate, I mean I could look into something custom built (and I did look at some large ported custom builds) but wanted the known performance of the SubM. No one local offers a product of the SubM's capability (IMHO)

PSA is available here,they are well priced but to get something comparable to dual SubM with the 6KW master/slave amp, I was probably looking at dual Triax/T18's which would have been $10k over here, which is a bit beyond my budget. Shortly after buying my SubMs the PSA S3000i dropped down by like $750ea (to $2250), looking back I would have bought these but the timing was off
A friend offered to sell me his SubM for a really good price (and it's been bulletproof and a joy to own!) so I reached out to mark about buying a second SubM with a 6kw amp so I could convert mine to a slave (as the amp is about 7yrs old)
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post #426 of 541 Old 07-19-2019, 03:10 PM
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post #427 of 541 Old 07-19-2019, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by mbw23air View Post
Hi,

I've been trying to get a hold of Mark for 8 days to see about ordering a replacement amp for my Submersive HP since the amp quit working. I was going to get the 4000 watt amp and then buy a slave sub after that. Has anybody had Mark call them recently? Is his health ok or is he just super busy?

Thanks for any help,
Mike
Well according to this thread it could be that he lost a 9 year employee a while back, it he is a one man operation, it was do to time with his young son, it was his birthday and the list goes on. So he can't find time to send out a replacement for a damaged unit going on 16 months, has two others waiting in the wings for refunds but the check is in the mail next week etc.. But hey according to some he makes the best subs ever so these issues are ok.

Good luck with your Seaton sub purchase but what do i know? I am just a fool that knows what the definition of a thief is!
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post #428 of 541 Old 07-19-2019, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by jamiebosco View Post
No not really mate, I mean I could look into something custom built (and I did look at some large ported custom builds) but wanted the known performance of the SubM. No one local offers a product of the SubM's capability (IMHO)

PSA is available here,they are well priced but to get something comparable to dual SubM with the 6KW master/slave amp, I was probably looking at dual Triax/T18's which would have been $10k over here, which is a bit beyond my budget. Shortly after buying my SubMs the PSA S3000i dropped down by like $750ea (to $2250), looking back I would have bought these but the timing was off
A friend offered to sell me his SubM for a really good price (and it's been bulletproof and a joy to own!) so I reached out to mark about buying a second SubM with a 6kw amp so I could convert mine to a slave (as the amp is about 7yrs old)
Wow! Maybe I need to move to Australia and set up a workshop.

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post #429 of 541 Old 07-19-2019, 06:18 PM
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Wow! Maybe I need to move to Australia and set up a workshop.

DJ
DO IT!!!! Please!
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post #430 of 541 Old 07-20-2019, 03:31 AM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Jamie,

I have very deliberately stayed out of this discussion, partly due to my respect for Mark the audio guru, as opposed to Mark the businessman. But FWIW, I honestly do feel that you are being a little too ambivalent in your posting, and are actually working against your own best interests.

Your avatar is indication enough of your admiration for Mark. But, the more that you say how much you love your now single Submersive, and that you are willing to be patient, the more you undermine your own ability to resolve this situation expeditiously. I understand very well that you don't want to offend Mark, or appear to be a chronic complainer. But, I agree with others that the situation of waiting 16 months for a resolution to your problem goes well beyond what is reasonable. In fact, it is indefensible. Your situation should absolutely be a priority for Mark, and you should be a polite, but nevertheless squeaky wheel.

In my opinion, allowing business practices like this one to continue will be of no long-term benefit either to Mark or to other buyers who come after you. Mark needs to have business practices that represent the same high standards that his subwoofers exhibit, and as a very visible representative of Seaton Sound owners (via your avatar) you need to contribute to the creation of better business practices in a positive way.

In short, it is my opinion as your AVS friend, and Mark's if he will allow it, that you should stop being patient, and start being firm. I rarely complain when I need someone's help in fixing a problem--especially a service issue. Instead I politely but distinctly ask for help in resolving the problem. And, it is very clear to both of us, when I do that, that I am expecting a resolution of the problem.

I think that you need to start being a little clearer and more direct, not only for your personal benefit, but for the benefit of other Seaton owners to come. Otherwise, you won't be the last one to experience this kind of selectively sporadic customer service.

Regards,
Mike
Hi Mike

Excellent post, thanks for taking the time to weigh in ( your opinion and advice is always welcome)

I know I am probably coming off way too soft or passive here, but as I previously noted, as someone who has dealt with depression and anxiety my whole life, I really really try to keep a positive mental attitude whenever possible, especially when circumstances are completely out of my hands. So in this case I "choose" to have faith that Mark will look after me, as he has always stated he will. It would of course have been much better and less stressful if this happened long ago but it is what it is

At the end of the day, I try to look at this as "it's just a subwoofer" YES it's really important to me, Yes it cost me a lot of money and YES I definitely want a replacement, but I've had so much other truly horrible crap going on in my life this last year that allowing myself to get too worked up over this is just not worth it mentally & emotionally for me

Cheers guys


Jamie

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post #431 of 541 Old 07-20-2019, 05:16 AM
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Originally Posted by jamiebosco View Post
Hi Mike



Excellent post, thanks for taking the time to weigh in ( your opinion and advice is always welcome)



I know I am probably coming off way too soft or passive here, but as I previously noted, as someone who has dealt with depression and anxiety my whole life, I really really try to keep a positive mental attitude whenever possible, especially when circumstances are completely out of my hands. So in this case I "choose" to have faith that Mark will look after me, as he has always stated he will. It would of course have been much better and less stressful if this happened long ago but it is what it is



At the end of the day, I try to look at this as "it's just a subwoofer" YES it's really important to me, Yes it cost me a lot of money and YES I definitely want a replacement, but I've had so much other truly horrible crap going on in my life this last year that allowing myself to get too worked up over this is just not worth it mentally & emotionally for me



Cheers guys





Jamie


Jamie, regardless of this situation that is an excellent approach to life. Very good mate! Don’t let this change that outlook as indeed in the grand scheme of things this is an inconvenience at best. Given your attitude it makes me wish even more that Mark comes through for you and make it right and perhaps do something more as a gesture of goodwill.


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post #432 of 541 Old 07-20-2019, 05:51 AM
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Originally Posted by jamiebosco View Post
Hi Mike

Excellent post, thanks for taking the time to weigh in ( your opinion and advice is always welcome)

I know I am probably coming off way too soft or passive here, but as I previously noted, as someone who has dealt with depression and anxiety my whole life, I really really try to keep a positive mental attitude whenever possible, especially when circumstances are completely out of my hands. So in this case I "choose" to have faith that Mark will look after me, as he has always stated he will. It would of course have been much better and less stressful if this happened long ago but it is what it is

At the end of the day, I try to look at this as "it's just a subwoofer" YES it's really important to me, Yes it cost me a lot of money and YES I definitely want a replacement, but I've had so much other truly horrible crap going on in my life this last year that allowing myself to get too worked up over this is just not worth it mentally & emotionally for me

Cheers guys

Jamie

Thank you for the compliment, Jamie! And, thank you for sharing that personal perspective. I had hoped that my post wouldn't come across as being critical, because I really didn't mean it that way. If anything, I was writing that post for Mark's benefit as much as I was writing it for you. That was just the best way I could find to say some things that I thought needed to be said.

In any event, I understand a little better now, and admire your positive attitude about things even more.

Regards,
Mike

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post #433 of 541 Old 07-20-2019, 07:06 AM
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Well according to this thread it could be that he lost a 9 year employee a while back, it he is a one man operation, it was do to time with his young son, it was his birthday and the list goes on. So he can't find time to send out a replacement for a damaged unit going on 16 months, has two others waiting in the wings for refunds but the check is in the mail next week etc.. But hey according to some he makes the best subs ever so these issues are ok.

Good luck with your Seaton sub purchase but what do i know? I am just a fool that knows what the definition of a thief is!
Your description of Mark Seaton as a dishonest person is, in my experience, completely incorrect. I've known Mark since 201, 1 and all my experience with him tells me he is a good, honest and forthright person. I suspect there is a lot we don't know about these situations that could explain them. They are all "international" transactions. This means they could involve customs, duties, VATS, etc. Add shipping damage disputes with international carriers, and return shipping issues and these kinds of transactions can become quite complicated. We are only hearing the *customer* side of these issues. I don't know if we will ever hear Mark's side of these things, nor do we have the right to demand such explanations. Nonetheless, I have no doubt there is more to these things than we know.


Mark has sold literally THOUSANDS of subwoofers and speakers. These are THREE customers with issues. Even if there are 10 times as many people as this with issues, Mark would still have a <99% "Positive Feedback" rating.



Everyone on these fora wants the best ID deals they can get. It would be a damn shame to loose one of the absolute best ID companies because a group of internet vigilantes persecuted him enough to severely damage his business. Do you really want to be responsible for that?



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post #434 of 541 Old 07-20-2019, 07:19 AM
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+1^^

Thanks Jamie for sharing,,,,,, i mirror the Mikes and imureh's comments and admire your strength and attitude. I can learn a lot from you!! That been said, i'm sorry you have been taken advantage of and "if" any one ever starts a pool of funds so you can sell your working sub and get into a pair of T-18's i will sens you $200 myself. Cheers!!
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Originally Posted by jamiebosco View Post
Hi Mike

Excellent post, thanks for taking the time to weigh in ( your opinion and advice is always welcome)

I know I am probably coming off way too soft or passive here, but as I previously noted, as someone who has dealt with depression and anxiety my whole life, I really really try to keep a positive mental attitude whenever possible, especially when circumstances are completely out of my hands. So in this case I "choose" to have faith that Mark will look after me, as he has always stated he will. It would of course have been much better and less stressful if this happened long ago but it is what it is

At the end of the day, I try to look at this as "it's just a subwoofer" YES it's really important to me, Yes it cost me a lot of money and YES I definitely want a replacement, but I've had so much other truly horrible crap going on in my life this last year that allowing myself to get too worked up over this is just not worth it mentally & emotionally for me

Cheers guys


Jamie
You are doing it right! Excellent way to go about things. Just remember though, Turning the other cheek, getting walked over, nice guys finish last, all comes with it. I tell people my shoulders are big enough to bare. Your heart is in the right place.
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post #436 of 541 Old 07-20-2019, 08:13 AM
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Everyone on these fora wants the best ID deals they can get. It would be a damn shame to loose one of the absolute best ID companies because a group of internet vigilantes persecuted him enough to severely damage his business. Do you really want to be responsible for that?
Kinda blaming the victims here, aren't you? Ask yourself honestly if you would feel the same way if it was YOUR money sitting in someone else's pocket for over a year.
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post #437 of 541 Old 07-20-2019, 08:25 AM
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Thanks for the comments guys,they mean a lot!

Good news, Mark emailed me tonight. He able to give a very good deal on a trade-in 6000w Speaker-Power HPi+ Master/slave amp, which he should be receiving in the next 2 weeks. Or, a good price on 2 x of the new ICE amps he has developed.So far, I'm strongly leaning towards the 6kw amp as that has been my goal from the start.
No mention of the replacement cabinet coming at the same time, but I will bring it up with him in my next email

cheers
Jamie

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Originally Posted by jamiebosco View Post
Thanks for the comments guys,they mean a lot!

Good news, Mark emailed me tonight. He able to give a very good deal on a trade-in 6000w Speaker-Power HPi+ Master/slave amp, which he should be receiving in the next 2 weeks. Or, a good price on 2 x of the new ICE amps he has developed.So far, I'm strongly leaning towards the 6kw amp as that has been my goal from the start.
No mention of the replacement cabinet coming at the same time, but I will bring it up with him in my next email

cheers
Jamie
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post #439 of 541 Old 07-20-2019, 08:38 AM
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Kinda blaming the victims here, aren't you? Ask yourself honestly if you would feel the same way if it was YOUR money sitting in someone else's pocket for over a year.
I think you misunderstood. I wasn't blaming the people with the issues. The "vigilantes" I was referring to are the people who have no skin in the game, with incomplete information, yet who, in spite of that, are calling Mark a "thief" and a "crook."
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Originally Posted by jamiebosco View Post
Thanks for the comments guys,they mean a lot!

Good news, Mark emailed me tonight. He able to give a very good deal on a trade-in 6000w Speaker-Power HPi+ Master/slave amp, which he should be receiving in the next 2 weeks. Or, a good price on 2 x of the new ICE amps he has developed.So far, I'm strongly leaning towards the 6kw amp as that has been my goal from the start.
No mention of the replacement cabinet coming at the same time, but I will bring it up with him in my next email

cheers
Jamie
How bad is the damage to the cabinet? Is it repairable by a woodworker in your country?
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post #441 of 541 Old 07-20-2019, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by craig john View Post
How bad is the damage to the cabinet? Is it repairable by a woodworker in your country?
It's not extremely bad, it's a crack in the wood veneer from a forklift blade and a couple of dents in the cabinet where its been pushed around with the forks, unfortunately it's right in the middle front of the cabinet so it's very obvious.
FedEx Australia asked me to take it to some cabinet makers to see if they would repair it, none were interested, and the one that would possibly consider taking the job said the cost would be more than the cost of a new cabinet

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post #442 of 541 Old 07-20-2019, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by jamiebosco View Post
It's not extremely bad, it's a crack in the wood veneer from a forklift blade and a couple of dents in the cabinet where its been pushed around with the forks, unfortunately it's right in the middle front of the cabinet so it's very obvious.
FedEx Australia asked me to take it to some cabinet makers to see if they would repair it, none were interested, and the one that would possibly consider taking the job said the cost would be more than the cost of a new cabinet

Hi Jamie,

I'm pleased to hear that Mark is communicating with you again. I didn't personally like some of the things that were said on the thread, but the overall discussion may have produced a positive result.

I think that Craig's question might lead somewhere. Mark's reluctance to ship you a new cabinet is probably partly because he would be out the cost of the cabinet, plus the shipping charges, which might be a good deal more than the cost of the cabinet. I believe that most shipping charges are based on bulk more than weight.

What if you got a quote from a local woodworker for a replacement cabinet? Somebody ought to be able to fabricate something that would be virtually identical to the original, and you could use the stuffing from the original. Perhaps Mark would be willing to pay for the cost of the replacement cabinet, or to credit a portion of the cost of a replacement cabinet to the new amplifier he is selling you. That might be worth looking into.

Regards,
Mike
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post #443 of 541 Old 07-20-2019, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by craig john View Post
Your description of Mark Seaton as a dishonest person is, in my experience, completely incorrect. I've known Mark since 201, 1 and all my experience with him tells me he is a good, honest and forthright person. I suspect there is a lot we don't know about these situations that could explain them. They are all "international" transactions. This means they could involve customs, duties, VATS, etc. Add shipping damage disputes with international carriers, and return shipping issues and these kinds of transactions can become quite complicated. We are only hearing the *customer* side of these issues. I don't know if we will ever hear Mark's side of these things, nor do we have the right to demand such explanations. Nonetheless, I have no doubt there is more to these things than we know.


Mark has sold literally THOUSANDS of subwoofers and speakers. These are THREE customers with issues. Even if there are 10 times as many people as this with issues, Mark would still have a <99% "Positive Feedback" rating.



Everyone on these fora wants the best ID deals they can get. It would be a damn shame to loose one of the absolute best ID companies because a group of internet vigilantes persecuted him enough to severely damage his business. Do you really want to be responsible for that?



Craig
What about the customer who *never* received what he ordered, and just wants a refund? What’s so damn complicated about that? I get that you want to stick up for your friend, but come on now.

These are three customers that *we know of* that are having ongoing issues. Who is to say that there aren’t others? Incomplete information or not, the situations described are simply inexcusable.
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post #444 of 541 Old 07-20-2019, 10:22 AM
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We are continuing to get ordered products out the door, and slowly getting everyone taken care of.
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...Yes i paid the order ( 2 x F18I + xlr cables) full in July 2018. Haven't received anything.
marti's situation is most bothersome imo...I wont post here again as I don't wish to continue beating a dead horse...but I just don't understand this

at the zenith of his nadir...
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post #445 of 541 Old 07-20-2019, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiebosco View Post
It's not extremely bad, it's a crack in the wood veneer from a forklift blade and a couple of dents in the cabinet where its been pushed around with the forks, unfortunately it's right in the middle front of the cabinet so it's very obvious.
If this was shipping damage, I assume a claim was made with the shipping company? THEY should be responsible for the replacement cabinet, not Mark.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiebosco View Post
FedEx Australia asked me to take it to some cabinet makers to see if they would repair it, none were interested, and the one that would possibly consider taking the job said the cost would be more than the cost of a new cabinet
If FedEx Australia has assumed responsibility for the damage, that claim needs to be taken to completion. FedEx Australia should pay for the cabinet, whether that means you get the current one repaired... to YOUR satisfaction.., or you get someone in Australia to build you a new cabinet, or Mark supplies a replacement cabinet. If that claim hasn't been satisfied, it's not, (yet), Mark's responsibility to supply a replacement.

Craig
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post #446 of 541 Old 07-20-2019, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiebosco View Post
It's not extremely bad, it's a crack in the wood veneer from a forklift blade and a couple of dents in the cabinet where its been pushed around with the forks, unfortunately it's right in the middle front of the cabinet so it's very obvious.
FedEx Australia asked me to take it to some cabinet makers to see if they would repair it, none were interested, and the one that would possibly consider taking the job said the cost would be more than the cost of a new cabinet
Pull the Veneer off, sand it, fill the dents, sand it, duratex, and hide it in a corner? That would cost less then 50.00 including a 12 pack of your favorite Ale.
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post #447 of 541 Old 07-20-2019, 11:06 AM
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It is inconceivable that someone local could economically produce a speaker cabinet like Mark's: https://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/p...king-5489409#1

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post #448 of 541 Old 07-20-2019, 11:43 AM
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Pull the Veneer off, sand it, fill the dents, sand it, duratex, and hide it in a corner? That would cost less then 50.00 including a 12 pack of your favorite Ale.
This seems very doable, assuming there is no structural damage to the cabinet. If the damage is purely cosmetic, have a professional do the filling and sanding first, and then replace the veneer. You should have a cosmetically acceptable repair. Then send the bill to FedEx Australia.

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post #449 of 541 Old 07-20-2019, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by craig john View Post
If this was shipping damage, I assume a claim was made with the shipping company? THEY should be responsible for the replacement cabinet, not Mark.




If FedEx Australia has assumed responsibility for the damage, that claim needs to be taken to completion. FedEx Australia should pay for the cabinet, whether that means you get the current one repaired... to YOUR satisfaction.., or you get someone in Australia to build you a new cabinet, or Mark supplies a replacement cabinet. If that claim hasn't been satisfied, it's not, (yet), Mark's responsibility to supply a replacement.

Craig
Hi Craig

Yes 100% shipping damage (semicircle hole in the box with a cracked and dented cabinet directly behind the hole) I highly doubt Mark sent it out like that. And YES FedEx SHOULD be taking responsibility for it.


FedEx Australia is not responsible for it, as it was sent by Mark through his business account, FedEx US handled the claim. I was lucky enough to have a nice FedEx rep in Australia who stepped up to the plate for me a few times and tried to resolve it and get the wheels moving.

To the best of my knowledge the claim was finalised a while ago, I don't want to say too much more because I don't have all the details as Mark had to handle the claim with his FedEx rep.

For my part, all photos of the damage to the cabinet and
shipping box plus forms and paperwork were completed and sent away within 24-48hrs,after that it was out of my hands

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post #450 of 541 Old 07-20-2019, 12:27 PM
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Hi Craig

Yes 100% shipping damage (semicircle hole in the box with a cracked and dented cabinet directly behind the hole) I highly doubt Mark sent it out like that. And YES FedEx SHOULD be taking responsibility for it.


FedEx Australia is not responsible for it, as it was sent by Mark through his business account, FedEx US handled the claim. I was lucky enough to have a nice FedEx rep in Australia who stepped up to the plate for me a few times and tried to resolve it and get the wheels moving.

To the best of my knowledge the claim was finalised a while ago, I don't want to say too much more because I don't have all the details as Mark had to handle the claim with his FedEx rep.

For my part, all photos of the damage to the cabinet and
shipping box plus forms and paperwork were completed and sent away within 24-48hrs,after that it was out of my hands

Hi Jamie,

I didn't want to say anything until I had more information, but this was what I assumed had happened. Normally shipping claims are handled with the seller, and not with the buyer. So, any reimbursements for damage go to the person who ships the item, and not to the person who receives the damaged goods. Then, it is up to the seller to reimburse the buyer, or to make other arrangements.

In this case, considering the size of the cabinets and the high shipping charges to Australia, it really may be worth continuing to explore options to repair or replace the cabinet locally. There is no knowing whether FedEx made Mark completely whole on the transaction. They really aren't known for doing that. And, at this point, finding some sort of compromise solution might represent the best path forward, if all else fails.

Regards,
Mike

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