Official Seaton Sound Subwoofer Thread - Page 17 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #481 of 681 Old 07-22-2019, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
I completely disagree. This is exactly what Mark should have done. Tom knows customer service and that is why if I ever buy another sub, it would either be from David at Deep Sea Sound (excellent customer service) or Tom with PSA.

The reason I said "Mark didn't need to do all of this" is because of what Tom did that went above and beyond what I would expect from any company. I won't say what Tom did for me publicly as I don't think it is appropriate. But I will say what he did for me was SIGNIFICANT, especially when the damage wasn't his fault. I didn't expect it, and told Tom it wasn't necessary. However, it is one of the reasons why many people such as myself buy from PSA and will continue to do so.

For Jamie's situation, I think it is reasonable to expect the issue to be resolved in a timely manner. To me, that is within a day or two unless a replacement cabinet wasn't on hand and needed to be constructed from scratch - then maybe a week or two to ship. However, I don't believe Mark needed to go above and beyond as Tom did with me. It would be nice, but not necessary. I would be happy to just be treated with respect and rectify my situation ASAP ahead of any new business.
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post #482 of 681 Old 07-22-2019, 12:04 PM
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I won't say what Tom did for me publicly as I don't think it is appropriate.
Tom is at the top of his game as a small business owner.

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post #483 of 681 Old 07-22-2019, 01:10 PM
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Guys, I know these problems will get rectified. However, it seems this thread, bringing it to the forefront, rushed things along. Jamie had mentioned this much before this.
While I'm sure the forum crusaders will want to take credit, if anything was solved as easily as a quick click of the mouse and it just took some public grilling on the forum, it would have happened 2 weeks ago when this was recently brought up. MartijnHigh and others are still on track to be taken care of as I had explained in recent updates to them directly.

In 14 years I've been known to be late, but we've always got people taken care of in the end. There are a myriad of compounding issues, events, and situations which created the handful, of people with problems, but they are all steadily getting righted.
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post #484 of 681 Old 07-22-2019, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post
While I'm sure the forum crusaders will want to take credit, if anything was solved as easily as a quick click of the mouse and it just took some public grilling on the forum, it would have happened 2 weeks ago when this was recently brought up. MartijnHigh and others are still on track to be taken care of as I had explained in recent updates to them directly.

In 14 years I've been known to be late, but we've always got people taken care of in the end. There are a myriad of compounding issues, events, and situations which created the handful, of people with problems, but they are all steadily getting righted.
I know it has been said that you don't like to respond to personal issues on the forums but I think this response is great, It really does show everybody will have issues from time to time and getting through them is the key part.
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post #485 of 681 Old 07-22-2019, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by jamiebosco View Post
I was told by FedEx Australia there was an issue on Mark's end and what is was, so yes I assume that's why it may have been denied (or only a partial amount paid).

Mark has said since day 1 (08 March 2018) that he would get me a replacement cabinet sent out, and several times since but, for whatever reason, it hasn't happened yet.

The other assumption that I made was that the insurance claim with FedEx would be straight forward and the replacement cab would be sent out ASAP, as this was clearly a case of shipping damage

cheers

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That's awesome news Carl!!

Oh God, I know I shouldn't get too excited but hopefully a replacement cab will be on its way to me in the not too distant future!
Hi Jamie,

As you posted before, FedEx Australia managed to find a technicality with which they denied the cosmetic damage claim, so I cover it out of our pocket. As I committed to early on, you are getting a new replacement cabinet, and we aren't going to ship the damaged cabinet back. As I mentioned in e-mail, we'll look at a few options of what to do to possibly put that cabinet to use and sort that out by e-mail.

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post #486 of 681 Old 07-22-2019, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post
While I'm sure the forum crusaders will want to take credit, if anything was solved as easily as a quick click of the mouse and it just took some public grilling on the forum, it would have happened 2 weeks ago when this was recently brought up. MartijnHigh and others are still on track to be taken care of as I had explained in recent updates to them directly.

In 14 years I've been known to be late, but we've always got people taken care of in the end. There are a myriad of compounding issues, events, and situations which created the handful, of people with problems, but they are all steadily getting righted.
Then it seems like it's more of a negative trait of yours rather than just issues/events/situations. Not trying to have a go at you. Anyway, it's seems like you're finally getting your customers taken care of which is good.
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post #487 of 681 Old 07-22-2019, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
The customer should be taken care of first - period. The customer didn't pick the carrier, didn't insure the shipment, and the bill of lading is handled by the shipper, not the customer. Any back and forth with shipping carrier for damages should be handled by the business owner post customer replacement - no excuses. Shipping loss is part of doing business and the customer should not be on the hook for this. Carries will typically refuse 100% of the claims and settle the ones where the customer is willing to go the extra mile and sue in small claims court or the customer is a very large account. They save millions because most people won't take the time to follow through. I had this issue with UPS and had to sue them in small claims court (pain in the arse). Outside of that, there will be no check coming. Regardless, this was handled very poorly and this type of negative press is something a small business owner should avoid like the plague. I am sorry, but this reeks of cash flow problems. Sixteen months ?!?! The same happenings started with Elemental Designs, Epik, and Reaction Audio. Buyers be warned.

@jamiebosco - I see you have PSA speakers. Bro you should have stuck with them on the subs. I have zero doubt Tom would have had you taken care of as soon as the phone hung up. I am not a PSA owner, but that guy knows customer service. I really hope you get taken care of. What a shame.....
Well put and what i was trying to convey.

Tom at PSA is the perfect example of ultimate in customer service and keeping a business growing. One of the many reasons PSA subs are in my listening room!
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post #488 of 681 Old 07-22-2019, 06:57 PM
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So I guess we can get back to our regularly scheduled program now! And all the none owners/ not interested in owning a Seaton sub can take their rage to the next cause. So I’m wondering if adding a third F18 would overpower my two Submersives?

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post #489 of 681 Old 07-22-2019, 07:58 PM
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No rage from me, just assisting a fellow avser. I never heard anything bad about Mark and never expected foul play.
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post #490 of 681 Old 07-22-2019, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by llang269 View Post
So I guess we can get back to our regularly scheduled program now! And all the none owners/ not interested in owning a Seaton sub can take their rage to the next cause. So I’m wondering if adding a third F18 would overpower my two Submersives?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
No rage from me, just assisting a fellow avser. I never heard anything bad about Mark and never expected foul play.

MKtheater is correct. This was all about trying to help a brother out, not rage. The same we would do for anyone in this situation, no matter the product. But I do agree, time to get back to the regular scheduled program (that is of course, if Jamie's situation is in fact corrected in a timely manner).
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post #491 of 681 Old 07-22-2019, 11:03 PM
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Hi guys

yes Mark is going to take care of me as soon as he possibly can, and has made me a generous offer that will make this all worth the wait! Time to start saving hardcore!

cheers
Jamie
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post #492 of 681 Old 07-23-2019, 01:45 AM
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Mark has also been over the top.

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Originally Posted by flat4 View Post
…...Tom at PSA is the perfect example of ultimate in customer service and keeping a business growing......

I 1st got involved with Seaton by purchasing two SubMs, not directly from Mark, but from the person that started the AVS thread: Seaton Sound SubMersive1 thread. (He had to relocate to China, I believe, and could not take them with him)
Mark provided the shipping boxes. (These were 1st Gen SubMs)
After I received them, I noticed that the grill cloth was sagging, and I called Mark asking his advice on what adhesive to use to fix the problem. (Back then he was working out of his garage & had phone calls forwarded to his cell when he was not home) He told me to ship the grills to him and he would take care of them, as he was using a different method of securing them. One day turn-a-round and the only cost to me was the shipping of them to him! (And I did not directly purchase them from him - Over the top!)
Making me a believer, I then purchased three Cat 12Cs.
Over the years, I have done two amp upgrades to the SubMs, the latest being the 6KW Master / Slave option.
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post #493 of 681 Old 07-23-2019, 07:10 AM
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Hi guys

yes Mark is going to take care of me as soon as he possibly can, and has made me a generous offer that will make this all worth the wait! Time to start saving hardcore!

cheers
Jamie
You deserve it Jamie. I am very happy that it seems things have started moving again for you. I will be really happy once you have them in hand....
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post #494 of 681 Old 07-23-2019, 08:09 AM
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You deserve it Jamie. I am very happy that it seems things have started moving again for you. I will be really happy once you have them in hand....
Me too mate, emailed Mark this afternoon, and will hopefully be going for the 6000w HPi+ Master/slave amp upgrade at the same time. Exciting times ahead!
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post #495 of 681 Old 07-23-2019, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by llang269 View Post
So I guess we can get back to our regularly scheduled program now! And all the none owners/ not interested in owning a Seaton sub can take their rage to the next cause. So I’m wondering if adding a third F18 would overpower my two Submersives?


Preach! Naw, a third won’t overpower the first two as long as it’s positioned properly. DO you have one in each front corner now? Would the third one go at the center of the wall? Or elsewhere in the room?


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post #496 of 681 Old 07-23-2019, 09:14 AM
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That’s the plan, the Submersive up front in the corners and the 3 F18’s in the back corners and center

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post #497 of 681 Old 07-23-2019, 10:44 AM
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That’s the plan, the Submersive up front in the corners and the 3 F18’s in the back corners and center


Man, that would likely make your EQ process easier for sure.


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post #498 of 681 Old 07-24-2019, 10:17 AM
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That’s the plan, the Submersive up front in the corners and the 3 F18’s in the back corners and center
You probably already know all this, but I'll throw it out there for others reading along... because that's what we do in the Seaton threads... we HELP each other!

When Harman looked at the optimum number of subwoofers and their locations, they concluded that there was little if any benefit to using more than 4 "sources" of bass. They also found that the 4 "mid-wall" positions where optimal for smoothing of response and seat-to-seat consistency. 4 corner locations offered increased output, but less potential for smoothing and consistency over more seats. Their third suggestion was for two subs, one in front and one in back, which was almost as good as 4 subs mid-wall for smoothing and consistency, but offered less total output.
https://www.harman.com/sites/default...multsubs_0.pdf

Of course, one of the requirements of their study was a sealed rectangular room, and their findings may not apply to any other room configuration. They also sent the exact same signal to all subwoofers, which meant they gain-matched the subs. If one intends to level-match their subs, using Audyssey, or some other RC system, Harman's findings may also not apply. Another requirement was for "identical" subwoofers. I know the F18's and the Submersives are very similar, but adding identical subs *might* be better.

Earl Geddes suggests a completely different system for subwoofer selection, placement and optimization: He suggests using a "odd" number of subs, with one sub being the "primary" and the other subs being "filler" subs. He also doesn't use gain-matching or level-matching. He bases his level settings on FR measurements. https://mehlau.net/audio/multisub_geddes/

Personally, I use a hybrid of the two techniques. I place my 3 Submersives somewhat randomly around my asymmetrical room, with 2 of them being equidistant to the LP so I can set one Distance setting for both. These two subs are well-separated so they provide differing modal responses. I gain-match all 3 of them, and set Distances and EQ with Audyssey. I worked closely with Mark to optimize my system. He heard it afterwards and said he had nothing else to offer to improve it.

Before you invest in the 3rd, 4th or, (especially), the 5th sub, I would encourage you talk to Mark about your setup and your calibration and EQ systems. He *may* suggest just 4, or he *may* suggest 8! Or, he may suggest something in between. Either way, he's the resident expert on truly high performance subwoofer systems, and he can help you configure things for optimal response, as well as fiscal responsibility.

Craig


Edit: Mark's help in configuring my system and educating me about the ins 'n outs of subwoofer *system* optimization were completely FREE, and completely OVER-THE-TOP!

Lombardi said it:
"Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence.
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post #499 of 681 Old 08-01-2019, 09:42 AM
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Has anyone here run XLR cables through a wall or ceiling? If so is there anything special about an XLR cable that runs in walls? I’m asking here because I want to set up something for a future F18 purchase. I’m having some work done next week and would like to get the xlr ran now for the future


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post #500 of 681 Old 08-01-2019, 11:09 AM
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Has anyone here run XLR cables through a wall or ceiling? If so is there anything special about an XLR cable that runs in walls? I’m asking here because I want to set up something for a future F18 purchase. I’m having some work done next week and would like to get the xlr ran now for the future
While I already e-mailed some suggestions, for information of others, you can call Markertek and custom order any of the Sescom cables which is their house brand that they build in house. In this case you would want something like either of these two cables but built with in-wall rated Canare star-quad cable:

35' length Canare Star-Quad XLR M-F

1.5-50' length Canare Star-Quad XLR M-F (they will build any length you need if custom ordering).

A salesperson can help, but you can use either:
Canare L-4E6AT Permanent Install Star Quad Audio Cable
or
Canare L-4E5AT Permanent Install Star-Quad Mic Cable

The custom charges aren't that much vs standard parts, but you should plan on 5-10 days to get them shipped out.

I believe BlueJeans Cable can also build up XLR cables using comparable in-wall rated cable, most of theirs use Canare or Belden.

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post #501 of 681 Old 08-05-2019, 09:51 PM
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Thanks getting back up me blue Jean was able to ship my xlr cable in time l. Now I just have to figure out how I’m gonna pay for the F18


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post #502 of 681 Old 08-06-2019, 04:31 AM
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Thanks getting back up me blue Jean was able to ship my xlr cable in time l. Now I just have to figure out how I’m gonna pay for the F18


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Mark has a very cute baby—perhaps a four year supply of Diapers and Wipes bought in bulk would do the trick. I know I’d gladly build someone anything for that kind of supply!


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post #503 of 681 Old 08-06-2019, 07:49 PM
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Yeah I understand but I have one starting college this week, one going into her sr year of college and a 7 year old sigh ...


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post #504 of 681 Old 08-07-2019, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post
While I'm sure the forum crusaders will want to take credit, if anything was solved as easily as a quick click of the mouse and it just took some public grilling on the forum, it would have happened 2 weeks ago when this was recently brought up. MartijnHigh and others are still on track to be taken care of as I had explained in recent updates to them directly.

In 14 years I've been known to be late, but we've always got people taken care of in the end. There are a myriad of compounding issues, events, and situations which created the handful, of people with problems, but they are all steadily getting righted.
I have received the refund today! Thanks again @ Mark Seaton
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post #505 of 681 Old 08-08-2019, 04:26 AM
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I have received the refund today! Thanks again @ Mark Seaton
That's fantastic news Martijn!!

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post #506 of 681 Old 09-04-2019, 09:55 AM
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I've been researching replacing some older subs for a larger room which is part of a very open floor plan 9000+ ft3. I'm looking at everything from JLA to PSA to HSU to Rymthic, ... because this setup has open walls into the kitchen and hallways to create that larger volume. I've seen Seaton's subs mentioned several times and his products feel like a good fit on many checkboxes.

So I explored his site and noticed everything is on "back order" plus there is very little activity in his own forums regarding shipments, questions etc..

I understand you guys that already own Seaton's awesome subs are over-the-moon pleased with them. I would probably own a pair if I'd seen them a few years ago. His quality is exceptional and the variety of cabinet finishes seals the deal from a WAF angle. (I cannot tell you how much she hates big, black boxes in that room. That alone marks a lot of high quality subs like Mark's - off the page because they only make'm in black and more black...) I am a big proponent of supporting "Made in the USA" when I can too, so with Mark using USA-made AMPS (speaker power) everything seems like an awesome fit for many of my checkboxes!

However, when I assemble the few site updates, his own forum activity, the fact that everything is on back-order and the last few pages of this AVS owner's thread, that sum seems to indicate the business is having delivery and operational issues which gives me great pause. When I read that one order has gone more than a year I admit, I almost closed all the pages and moved down the list.

So are shipments being made? Are orders being accepted and filled recently in a timely manner?

Peace.
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Last edited by gattaca; 09-04-2019 at 12:14 PM. Reason: clarify quesitons
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post #507 of 681 Old 09-04-2019, 12:41 PM
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So are shipments being made? Are orders being accepted and filled recently in a timely manner?
I just had a new order accepted and delivered in a timely manner around a month ago. I always found the easiest way to get in touch with Mark is via email [email protected]. If there is something you are interested in, just shoot Mark an email and he will be able to give you the latest updates on delivery times. I think somewhere Mark said even items on back order generally ship within 3 weeks or so.

And yes, I am over the moon about Mark's products.
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post #508 of 681 Old 09-04-2019, 01:33 PM
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So are shipments being made? Are orders being accepted and filled recently in a timely manner?

Peace.
I placed/paid my order for a replacement 4000w amp for my Submersive HP sub and also a Submersive slave sub on 7/20. Still haven't received either and attempts to call and email remain unanswered. Amp was said to arrive on or before 8/9. I know delays happen but no communication is frustrating.

Mike

JVC RS600(Fantastically calibrated by ChadB), Stewart Cima Neve 2.35 115" diagonal screen, Darbee Darblet, Denon AVR-X7200WA(7.6.4), M&K Speakers, 6 ported 18" subs powered by 3 inuke 6000dsps, 2 Behringer B1200D Mid Bass Modules, Buttkicker transducer, Oppo BDP-93 blu-ray player
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post #509 of 681 Old 09-04-2019, 03:38 PM
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1 - 1 = 0. Thanks for the information on contacting Mark. I'll continue monitoring this and other treads. Peace.
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post #510 of 681 Old 09-04-2019, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gattaca View Post
I've been researching replacing some older subs for a larger room which is part of a very open floor plan 9000+ ft3. I'm looking at everything from JLA to PSA to HSU to Rymthic, ... because this setup has open walls into the kitchen and hallways to create that larger volume. I've seen Seaton's subs mentioned several times and his products feel like a good fit on many checkboxes.

So I explored his site and noticed everything is on "back order" plus there is very little activity in his own forums regarding shipments, questions etc..

I understand you guys that already own Seaton's awesome subs are over-the-moon pleased with them. I would probably own a pair if I'd seen them a few years ago. His quality is exceptional and the variety of cabinet finishes seals the deal from a WAF angle. (I cannot tell you how much she hates big, black boxes in that room. That alone marks a lot of high quality subs like Mark's - off the page because they only make'm in black and more black...) [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG] I am a big proponent of supporting "Made in the USA" when I can too, so with Mark using USA-made AMPS (speaker power) everything seems like an awesome fit for many of my checkboxes!

However, when I assemble the few site updates, his own forum activity, the fact that everything is on back-order and the last few pages of this AVS owner's thread, that sum seems to indicate the business is having delivery and operational issues which gives me great pause. When I read that one order has gone more than a year I admit, I almost closed all the pages and moved down the list.

So are shipments being made? Are orders being accepted and filled recently in a timely manner?

Peace.
You pretty much summed things up in your post.

Yes...Seaton makes great products... understandable there will be timelines with smaller based mfg...that's a given...but the lack of effort in communication is discouraging to be honest in some of the recent posts....I've scrolled through.

Going back a few years...I considered the subM....but his lack of marketing and proper web site made me look elsewhere...I was fortunate enough to hear the cat 8s...here locally at a gtg....prior I opted to go with a similarly designed PSA sub....which was considered by the folks at that gtg superior but factoring its cost it should be.

Folks usually hear back and they'll get great products...but if your an impatient sort, it's better to look elsewhere...I don't fall into that category.... because I waited about 3 months for my current sub....but I had an open line of communication throughout the process....CS....I consider highly important and top of my list as do others.

Ascend Acoustics: Towers, STC w RAAL & 200 SE in espresso,
54" of Panny Bliss, Anthem MRX 300, Oppo 103D,
Sub: Funk Audio 18: (Santos Rosewood)
Indian proverb: We don't inherit the earth from our ancestors but we borrow it from our children!

Last edited by Billy p; 09-04-2019 at 04:30 PM.
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